---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/30/05: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:39 AM - Re: grass strip length (Jim Crunkleton) 2. 07:16 AM - Fw: Too Cool a Story Not To Send....... (MASON CHEVAILLIER) 3. 07:34 AM - Re: grass strip length (Brock Lorber) 4. 07:54 AM - Re: Voltage Regulators (Moe) 5. 09:28 AM - Zefftronics Regulators (Larry Wokral) 6. 09:48 AM - Short Grass Strips (Larry Wokral) 7. 10:38 AM - Re: grass strip length (CloudCraft@AOL.COM) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:12 AM PST US From: "Jim Crunkleton" Subject: Re: Commander-List: grass strip length --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Crunkleton" Ben, Joe Shepherd and I have been operating a 560F off of a 2000' grass strip for years. (Elev 925') No Problem! However........when the density altitude starts climbing, we do restrict the gross weight. (You can tell a big difference at a 1000' @ 90 degrees.) We've also operated a 520, and 680E from the same strip. My personal preferences: 520---Not an issue 560---Not an issue 560E---Not an issue 560A HC---Not an issue 560F---Watch density altitude/limit gross weight 680E---See above 680F---See above (Do-able but no room for error) The remaining models---Consider an Aztruck Commander Gordon is spot on concerning 2nd segment climb, as you don't want to be turning around a tree after losing an engine. You are not be operating off of a balanced field, so expect NOT to stop on the field if you lose an engine near Vmc. (It does make every takeoff exciting!) The method Joe and I use is to remain on the ground until attaining Vmc. (Chanting, "Engines Don't Fail Me Now" during the takeoff roll and climb out also seems to help!) Another consideration when operating off of grass is field condition, i.e., dew, rain and depth of grass. We elect NOT to operate our aircraft during periods of dew, rain or high grass. I'm sure it probably can be done, but being an old-fart retired airline pilot with 25,000+ hours I've decided that my heart can't take the excitement. (Definitely OLD, definitely not Bold.) :-) You mentioned flying out west. If this is part of your 'mission' I would strongly suggest something with superchargers for the higher altitude airports, i.e., a 680E. Before making a decision it would be prudent to review the single engine service ceilings of the various aircraft you might have in mind. (It would be a real bitch to find the single engine service ceiling is 8500' when the terrain is 9500' where you find yourself---Bummer!) Hope I've been some help. Jim Crunkleton ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:33 AM PST US From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" "BROOKE D HARLOW" , "candice" , "carol haskins" , "commander-list" , "DAN BRUHL" , "Fearn Mastin" , "FEDERICO M VELEZ A" Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Too Cool a Story Not To Send....... 0.14 FROM_NO_LOWER From address has no lower-case characters --> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" ----- Original Message ----- From: Kay Farman Subject: Fw: Too Cool a Story Not To Send....... ----- Original Message ----- From: Jane Lancaster Subject: Too Cool a Story Not To Send....... Subject: Irish Luck - Remember to send it back! I want this back. It DOES work. His name was Fleming, and he was a poor Scottish farmer. One day, while trying to make a living for his family, he heard a cry for help coming from a nearby bog. He dropped his tools and ran to the bog. There, mired to his waist in black muck, was a terrified boy, screaming and struggling to free himself. Farmer Fleming saved the lad from what could have been a slow and terrifying death. The next day, a fancy carriage pulled up to the Scotsman's sparse surroundings. An elegantly dressed nobleman stepped out and introduced himself as the father of the boy Farmer Fleming had saved. "I want to repay you," said the nobleman. "You saved my son's life." "No, I can't accept payment for what I did," the Scottish farmer replied waving off the offer. At that moment, the farmer's own son came to the door of the family hovel. "Is that your son?" the nobleman asked. "Yes," the farmer replied proudly. "I'll make you a deal. Let me provide him with the level of education my own son will enjoy. If the lad is anything like his father, he'll no doubt grow to be a man we both will be proud of." And that he did. Farmer Fleming's son attended the very best schools and in time, graduated from St. Mary's Hospital Medical School in London, and went on to become known throughout the world as the noted Sir Alexander Fleming, the discoverer of Penicillin. Years afterward, the same nobleman's son who was saved from the bog was stricken with pneumonia. What saved his life this time? Penicillin. The name of the nobleman? Lord Randolph Churchill. His son's name? Sir Winston Churchill. Someone once said: What goes around comes around. Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. Sing like nobody's listening. Live like it's Heaven on Earth. It's National Friendship Week. Send this to everyone you consider A FRIEND. Pass this on, and brighten someone's day. AN IRISH FR! IENDSHIP WISH: You had better send this back!! Good Luck! I hope it works... May there always be work for your hands to do; May your purse always hold a coin or two; May the sun always shine on your windowpane; May a rainbow be certain to follow each rain; May the hand of a friend always be near you; May God fill your heart with gladness to cheer you. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:34 AM PST US From: Brock Lorber Subject: Re: Commander-List: grass strip length --> Commander-List message posted by: Brock Lorber Jim Crunkleton wrote: >520---Not an issue >560---Not an issue >560E---Not an issue >560A HC---Not an issue >560F---Watch density altitude/limit gross weight >680E---See above >680F---See above (Do-able but no room for error) >The remaining models---Consider an Aztruck > > > Thanks, Jim. Before seeing this, I was thinking one of two scenarios was happening: a - The Commander list had banded together to play a big joke on me (or scramble the few brain cells I had left), or b - N400CH is missing an engine and/or dragging a plow. I'm pretty sure both engines are attached and as strong as they can get and I (usually) unhook the tug before taking the runway, so I had the BS flag at half mast! While the 680FL(P) has impressed me with its short-field capabilities, they are nothing to write home about with any load past pilot and a half a gallon of gas or so. Darn extra seats. I'd really complain if I couldn't get them up over 200 knots. Brock Lorber N400CH ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:24 AM PST US From: "Moe" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Voltage Regulators --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" Gentlemen: Thanks very much for the replies. Perhaps I should have mentioned that I have 100 amp generators on the 680F(p), and Zeftronics only has 50 amp voltage regulators. This came as a surprise to me so I called their tech assistance lady and she confirmed it. Any other suggestions? Regards, Moe N680RR ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Commander-List: Voltage Regulators > --> Commander-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com > > > In a message dated 8/29/2005 4:27:41 P.M. Central Standard Time, > CloudCraft@aol.com writes: > > If you can't Google it, let me know and I'll try to find archive issues of > the Flight Group News that featured these. > > Wing Commander Gordon > > > Try: _http://www.zeftronics.com_ (http://www.zeftronics.com) > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > AKA > Bob Siegfried > Ancient Aviator > Stearman N3977A > Brookeridge Air Park LL22 > Downers Grove, IL 60516 > 630 985-8503 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:28:09 AM PST US From: "Larry Wokral" Subject: Commander-List: Zefftronics Regulators --> Commander-List message posted by: "Larry Wokral" >Am considering getting rid of the stock "Frankenstein" voltage regulators on my 680F(p). Any suggestions? >Look in Trade A Plane for Zefftronics. The regulators you need are manufactured by them and they are GREAT replacements for the old open frame units originally installed. They are all solid state and have been trouble free since installation. I, too, have the Zefftronics solid state system installed on my 500B. I had the Merlyn folks install it during my Merlyn 320 turbo engine conversion. It completely replaces the stock one, and I have never had any trouble with it. Sorry, I don't remember the cost because it was mixed in with the engine conversion where I was spending BIG money. I also had their smaller solid state regulator on my Cardinal RG for many years with the same perfect result. It is over voltage protected and self resets. Larry Wokral ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:51 AM PST US From: "Larry Wokral" Subject: Commander-List: Short Grass Strips --> Commander-List message posted by: "Larry Wokral" >How short of an unobstructed grass strip are you willing to land on, assuming reasonable temperature and a few hundred under gross? Please tell me what you fly. I have been practicing high performance, short field takeoffs and landings in my Merlyn 320 converted 500B in preparation for taking it into my new 1,200' sloped sod strip (close to 2,000' flat land equivalency with no departure obstructions). My local paved field is 3,642' in elevation. On density altitude days where it is closer to 5,000' in elevation and with just me and 100 gallons of fuel aboard, I've been getting off in about 900', and always under 1,000'. I start by holding brakes until getting 38" MP, increasing to 42" MP on the roll, and rotating by 70 KIAS. I pick up VYse speed after breaking ground quickly. As Morris suggested to me once, I've even tried holding the brakes until reaching the full 42" and then rotating at 65 KIAS and holding it there for the initial climb. That was exhilarating! The stall horn was sounding during initial rotation, but the plane kept its climb and accelerated with a little lessening of back pressure on the yoke. I really believe that it would easily operate out of short, unobstructed grass strips. Of course I have read the articles on multi engine takeoff speed safety techniques and was trained on making every attempt at reaching blue line before rotation or gaining it ASAP after rotation. None the less, these planes will give great short field performance when needed. Using a short field technique doesn't prevent you from gaining blue line speed immediately after breaking ground and clearing the obstacle. I readily admit that I am new at flying Aerocommanders. I would really love to have one of you really experienced Commander drivers fly this thing at this edge of the envelope just to help verify or determine its full capabilities. Larry Wokral ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:51 AM PST US From: CloudCraft@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Commander-List: grass strip length --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com In a message dated 30-Aug-05 07:35:52 Pacific Daylight Time, blorber@vegasfc.com writes: a - The Commander list had banded together to play a big joke on me (or scramble the few brain cells I had left), or b - N400CH is missing an engine and/or dragging a plow. I'm pretty sure both engines are attached and as strong as they can get and I (usually) unhook the tug before taking the runway, so I had the BS flag at half mast! While the 680FL(P) has impressed me with its short-field capabilities, they are nothing to write home about with any load past pilot and a half a gallon of gas or so. > > As much as we enjoy conspiring to blow your mind, Brock, we didn't this time. The (sad) fact of the RPM-FLP is that the 400 hp just doesn't get through the props and turn into thrust like the original model's engine & prop combination. Mr RPM did demonstrate the short field / high DENALT capability to some missionaries by taking off at gross weight from Big Bear, California (L35) on a warm day -- but -- he loaded the aircraft with aft most C.G., which he says is the key to short field work in the long body Commander. Are you sure you unhooked the tug? I heard you on frequency a while ago and I remember ATC asking if you were a flight of two. Back to the original question, Ben -- if you can find a 680-E, you'll have as good a short field Commander as you can get, both for East Coast and Rocky Mountain regions. Barry Hancock who is in the Group is selling his. Get in touch with him. Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.