---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/30/05: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:14 AM - I sold my Twin Commander 685, Just wanted to say "Farewell!" (George J. Yundt III) 2. 07:49 AM - Re: I sold my Twin Commander 685, Just wanted to say "Farewel... (BobsV35B@aol.com) 3. 08:06 AM - Re: I sold my Twin Commander 685, Just wanted to say "Farewel... (RRamm52@cs.com) 4. 08:13 AM - Re: I sold my Twin Commander 685, Just wanted to say "Farewel... (RRamm52@cs.com) 5. 08:50 AM - Re: I sold my Twin Commander 685, Just wanted to say "Farewel... (CloudCraft@aol.com) 6. 12:54 PM - Re: I sold my Twin Commander 685, Just wanted to say "Farewel... (Deneal Schilmeister (Portege)) 7. 12:57 PM - Re: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other questio (CloudCraft@aol.com) 8. 01:22 PM - Re: I sold my Twin Commander 685, Just wanted to say "Farewel... (CloudCraft@aol.com) 9. 02:16 PM - Re: I sold my Twin Commander 685, Just wanted to (Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)) 10. 06:52 PM - Re: I sold my Twin Commander 685, Just wanted to say "Farewell!" (nico css) 11. 07:15 PM - Re: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other questio (RRamm52@cs.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:14:32 AM PST US From: "George J. Yundt III" Subject: Commander-List: I sold my Twin Commander 685, Just wanted to say "Farewell!" --> Commander-List message posted by: "George J. Yundt III" Dear Members of TCFG and Commander-List Chat Line, It is with very bitter-sweet feelings that I notify you that on Friday, October 28th, I closed on the selling of my beautiful Twin Commander 685, SN 12061, N74CP. Happy because I got my FULL asking price (If you were not familiar with my aircraft, see the website before I take it down: www.N74CP.com ). Sad because the aircraft has served me and my family faithfully by providing so many wonderful, rich experiences and life-long memories during the last 4 =BD years of ownership! Part of those memories involves getting to know some of you; the owners, operators and enthusiasts of these wonderful aircraft! The primary driver for my decision to sell is the terrible lack of good airports and virtually unavailable, reasonably-priced large aircraft hangar space here in Chicago (as well as many other places here in the US, I am sure!). I have kept the aircraft in the ONLY hangar large enough to accommodate it that is under $1,000 /month and is still within an hour of where I live: an old 1930=92s United Airlines Hangar at the Joliet Park District Airport here in Illinois (yes, Joliet WAS a United Airlines Hub in the 30=92s, when they were flying DC-3=92s). The airport=92s only paved runway is a mere 2,900 ft, so I have become quite the short-field master of getting the 9,000 lb aircraft in and out. HOWEVER, last year the =93City Idiots, I mean Fathers!=94 granted a permit to build a 15 pump self-service gas station =96 Mini Mart less than 300 ft from the departure end of runway 30, right on the extended centerline! Since then, there have been 2 overruns off the other end (RWY 12). One day (probably a hot, humid summer Saturday Morning with no breeze), there will be a horrible conflagration, involving an aircraft and its passengers, probably 5-10 cars, 3 Soccer Moms, 15-20 kids=85.you get the picture! I just had to make sure I wasn=92t the cause! That meant only 1 thing=85..the 685 had to go! Anyway, the new owner already has one 685 as well as a spare GTSIO-520-K1B engine, where both Commanders and their Lear 35 are used in regular Corporate service flying over 50 hours a month each (It is good to know that my airplane will fly a lot more now, as it was designed to do!) The acquiring company is Image Products, Inc. of Wilmington, NC, and the Chief Pilot is a nice young man named Steve Murray. I hope that if any of you are in the Carolinas coastal area, you might stop in and see them. Wilmington is a beautiful area=85.many movies shot there for Hollywood. I have acquired a new, but smaller T-Hangar (45 x 45) at a closer 5,500=92 Airport (KLOT), and as such have begun an active search for a Baron 58, 58P or a Duke. So, if anyone knows of a well-equipped, certified Flight Into Know Icing (Chicago, remember?), later model (meaning 1985 or after) Beechcraft (a good aircraft, but nothing like a Commander!), I hope you will pass along my contact info and toll-free number below. (Have cash, but NO airplane=85boy is that a change!) Cheers and Best wishes to all of you! George J. Yundt III 14516 Morningside Road Orland Park, IL 60462-7410 Office: 708-349-2121 Cell: 312-371-7551 Email: yundt@speakeasy.net Toll-Free: 888-349-2131 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:13 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: I sold my Twin Commander 685, Just wanted to say "Farewel... --> Commander-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 10/30/2005 4:15:57 A.M. Central Standard Time, yundt@speakeasy.net writes: It is with very bitter-sweet feelings that I notify you that on Friday, October 28th, I closed on the selling of my beautiful Twin Commander 685, SN 12061, N74CP. Happy because I got my FULL asking price (If you were not familiar with my aircraft, see the website before I take it down: www.N74CP.com ). Sad because the aircraft has served me and my family faithfully by providing so many wonderful, rich experiences and life-long memories during the last 4 =BD years of ownership! Part of those memories involves getting to know some of you; the owners, operators and enthusiasts of these wonderful aircraft! Good Morning George, Sad that you are selling a plane you love, but we are happy you are looking for a Beech! Hope to see you often at gatherings of the Midwest Bonanza Society. It was a joy to meet you and your lovely bride up north. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:11 AM PST US From: RRamm52@cs.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: I sold my Twin Commander 685, Just wanted to say "Farewel... --> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com In a message dated 10/30/2005 4:18:09 AM Central Standard Time, yundt@speakeasy.net writes: > > It is with very bitter-sweet feelings that I notify you that on Friday, > October 28th, I closed on the selling of my beautiful Twin Commander 685, SN > 12061, N74CP. Happy because I got my FULL asking price (If you were not > familiar with my aircraft, see the website before I take it down: > www.N74CP.com ). Sad because the aircraft has > served me and my family faithfully by providing so many wonderful, rich > experiences and life-long memories during the last 4 =BD years of ownership! > Part of those memories involves getting to know some of you; the owners, > operators and enthusiasts of these wonderful aircraft! ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:10 AM PST US From: RRamm52@cs.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: I sold my Twin Commander 685, Just wanted to say "Farewel... --> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com Hello, George Thanks for your email. I sold our 500 a couple of months ago and miss her a lot. My partner, Steve has a bonanza, which is the next best thing and we used her to locate a 1965 500B that I am closing on in the near future. The B has the shrike mods, radar, O2, and fairly new IO540's with new Q tip props.... We live in the south and hope to build or lease a hangar large enough for her. Until then, I'll stick her nose into my existing hangar and do the best we can to protect her from the elements. She will be flying often... Rob yundt@speakeasy.net writes: > > It is with very bitter-sweet feelings that I notify you that on Friday, > October 28th, I closed on the selling of my beautiful Twin Commander 685, SN > 12061, N74CP. Happy because I got my FULL asking price (If you were not > familiar with my aircraft, see the website before I take it down: > www.N74CP.com ). Sad because the aircraft has > served me and my family faithfully by providing so many wonderful, rich > experiences and life-long memories during the last 4 =BD years of ownership! > Part of those memories involves getting to know some of you; the owners, > operators and enthusiasts of these wonderful aircraft! ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:14 AM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: I sold my Twin Commander 685, Just wanted to say "Farewel... --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com In a message dated 30-Oct-05 02:15:57 Pacific Standard Time, yundt@speakeasy.net writes: One day (probably a hot, humid summer Saturday Morning with no breeze), there will be a horrible conflagration, involving an aircraft and its passengers, probably 5-10 cars, 3 Soccer Moms, 15-20 kids=85.you get the picture! I just had to make sure I wasn=92t the cause! That meant only 1 thing=85..the 685 had to go! George, You are the consummate professional and we'll miss having your on the list. You also did some magnificent upgrades to your AC-685 and are leaving a true legacy to the next operator. Each person who upgrades a Commander adds to the value of the entire fleet. (Of course, each person who keeps theirs all original adds to the historic value of the fleet) What I do not envy is having to replace a Commander with another product. That's like going from a Falcon to a Lear. You poor sot! By the way, nice job on the comparison tables and graphs on your web site. As I said, you're the consummate professional. All good things to you, Sir! Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:54:13 PM PST US From: "Deneal Schilmeister (Portege)" Subject: RE: Commander-List: I sold my Twin Commander 685, Just wanted to say "Farewel... --> Commander-List message posted by: "Deneal Schilmeister (Portege)" And whats the matter with a Lear? Ever have to replace a windshield on a DA10? As I mentioned in my little Commander piece posted last week, I had a mentor who introduced me to Commanders. When he had to sell his 690A, he bought a P-Baron. I hoper George, you find a good one! ___________________________ Deneal Schilmeister St. Louis - Cincinnati 1997 SL500 http://homepage.mac.com/deneals/SL500.htm -----Original Message----- From: On Behalf Of CloudCraft@aol.com --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com In a message dated 30-Oct-05 02:15:57 Pacific Standard Time, yundt@speakeasy.net writes: One day (probably a hot, humid summer Saturday Morning with no breeze), there will be a horrible conflagration, involving an aircraft and its passengers, probably 5-10 cars, 3 Soccer Moms, 15-20 kids=85.you get the picture! I just had to make sure I wasn=92t the cause! That meant only 1 thing=85..the 685 had to go! George, You are the consummate professional and we'll miss having your on the list. You also did some magnificent upgrades to your AC-685 and are leaving a true legacy to the next operator. Each person who upgrades a Commander adds to the value of the entire fleet. (Of course, each person who keeps theirs all original adds to the historic value of the fleet) What I do not envy is having to replace a Commander with another product. That's like going from a Falcon to a Lear. You poor sot! By the way, nice job on the comparison tables and graphs on your web site. As I said, you're the consummate professional. All good things to you, Sir! Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:57:40 PM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other questio --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com Rob, Sorry for the delay repsonding. You asked: " ... What do you think [or know] the shrike kit does for cruise? Full throttle, LOP at about 12,000 feet? And winglets, if they matter in cruise at that altitude. We also have the Q tip props." Can't say I have scientific data. I've been a celebrity guest instructor in a handful of modded Commanders, some before-and-after, some just after. My observations are that flap gap seals have both added 8 to 10 knots -- and had zero effect on some airframes. Winglettes have added to initial altitude capability and changed the stall characteristics. There is less rumbling and bucking (that could be the work of flap gap seals), stall is held off beyond a stock wing, but the stall is very abrupt when it does go. I like all the Shrike mods, don't get me wrong; I love the physical appearance. However, most Shrike mods such as nose, rudder cap and stinger have added weight but not changed performance. In most cases, the nose and avionics mods have run the C.G. forward which would slow the airplane down in cruise unless the C.G. is pulled back with a weight at the last tail frames. Q Tips will reduce some of the buzz in the cabin (very subjective) but have not shown me any performance changes at all. Of all the mods out there, the AeroDyne winglettes (NOT the bootleg ones floating around) are my favorite because of the recognition lights and strobes that can be added. For the Commanders with the electric Grimes lights that are speed restricted (e.g. AC500 U & S), this is a most important accessory. The AeroDyne flap gap kit *could* add speed to your particular airplane and if you have money laying around after any avionics upgrades, I'd spend it there. (Note: I figure most guys want to upgrade the panel first, airframe second.) Oh! Wait! Cleveland brakes with the snubber kit (from AeroAir) is a great item and a must have if you operate on short strips. I hope money falls from the sky into your lap so you can go fly your Commander and report the results of your mods! Be sure to let Sir Barry know of what mods you have and what you add so he can update his files on your serial number. Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:22:24 PM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: I sold my Twin Commander 685, Just wanted to say "Farewel... --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com In a message dated 30-Oct-05 12:54:47 Pacific Standard Time, deneals@sbcglobal.net writes: And whats the matter with a Lear? Ever have to replace a windshield on a DA10? George is a Falcon Jet sales rep, so of course I had to use that comparison. I could have used anything made from tractor parts in Wichita to illustrate my point. I just happen to like poking fun at Lawn Darts -- I mean Lear Jets. Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:16:40 PM PST US say "Farewel... Subject: Re: Commander-List: I sold my Twin Commander 685, Just wanted to say "Farewel... From: "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" --> Commander-List message posted by: "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" On 10/30/05 3:22 PM, "CloudCraft@aol.com" wrote: > George is a Falcon Jet sales rep, so of course I had to use that comparison. > > I could have used anything made from tractor parts in Wichita to illustrate > my point. I just happen to like poking fun at Lawn Darts -- I mean Lear Jets. That's okay. I didn't realize George was a Falcon rep. I thought thats what you were flying, but then I couldn't remember if you flew a Falcon or a Hawker.. Its a Falcon 200, isn't it Keith? A -5 Falcon 20? In any case 74CP has got to be the nicest 685 I've ever seen. -- Deneal Schilmeister ATP Learjet St. Louis, Missouri USA http://homepage.mac.com/deneals ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:18 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: Re: Commander-List: I sold my Twin Commander 685, Just wanted to say "Farewell!" --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" George, Sorry to see your bird go. It certainly is the nicest specimen I have ever seen and the website is also a valuable resource for anyone who wants to know more about 685 Commanders. Would you have any objection if I copy your site onto my site (and eventually it will go into the Commander site, we just have a few things to sort out before that can happen) so that folks can refer to N74CP in the future? That way you don't have to keep the site up at all. Let me know. Thanks Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "George J. Yundt III" Subject: Commander-List: I sold my Twin Commander 685, Just wanted to say "Farewell!" > --> Commander-List message posted by: "George J. Yundt III" > > Dear Members of TCFG and Commander-List Chat Line, > > > It is with very bitter-sweet feelings that I notify you that on Friday, > October 28th, I closed on the selling of my beautiful Twin Commander 685, SN > 12061, N74CP. Happy because I got my FULL asking price (If you were not > familiar with my aircraft, see the website before I take it down: > www.N74CP.com ). Sad because the aircraft has > served me and my family faithfully by providing so many wonderful, rich > experiences and life-long memories during the last 4 =BD years of ownership! > Part of those memories involves getting to know some of you; the owners, > operators and enthusiasts of these wonderful aircraft! > > > The primary driver for my decision to sell is the terrible lack of good > airports and virtually unavailable, reasonably-priced large aircraft hangar > space here in Chicago (as well as many other places here in the US, I am > sure!). I have kept the aircraft in the ONLY hangar large enough to > accommodate it that is under $1,000 /month and is still within an hour of > where I live: an old 1930=92s United Airlines Hangar at the Joliet Park > District Airport here in Illinois (yes, Joliet WAS a United Airlines Hub in > the 30=92s, when they were flying DC-3=92s). The airport=92s only paved runway is > a mere 2,900 ft, so I have become quite the short-field master of getting > the 9,000 lb aircraft in and out. HOWEVER, last year the =93City Idiots, I > mean Fathers!=94 granted a permit to build a 15 pump self-service gas station > =96 Mini Mart less than 300 ft from the departure end of runway 30, right on > the extended centerline! Since then, there have been 2 overruns off the > other end (RWY 12). One day (probably a hot, humid summer Saturday Morning > with no breeze), there will be a horrible conflagration, involving an > aircraft and its passengers, probably 5-10 cars, 3 Soccer Moms, 15-20 > kids=85.you get the picture! I just had to make sure I wasn=92t the cause! > That meant only 1 thing=85..the 685 had to go! > > > Anyway, the new owner already has one 685 as well as a spare GTSIO-520-K1B > engine, where both Commanders and their Lear 35 are used in regular > Corporate service flying over 50 hours a month each (It is good to know that > my airplane will fly a lot more now, as it was designed to do!) The > acquiring company is Image Products, Inc. of Wilmington, NC, and the Chief > Pilot is a nice young man named Steve Murray. I hope that if any of you are > in the Carolinas coastal area, you might stop in and see them. Wilmington > is a beautiful area=85.many movies shot there for Hollywood. > > > I have acquired a new, but smaller T-Hangar (45 x 45) at a closer 5,500=92 > Airport (KLOT), and as such have begun an active search for a Baron 58, 58P > or a Duke. So, if anyone knows of a well-equipped, certified Flight Into > Know Icing (Chicago, remember?), later model (meaning 1985 or after) > Beechcraft (a good aircraft, but nothing like a Commander!), I hope you will > pass along my contact info and toll-free number below. (Have cash, but NO > airplane=85boy is that a change!) > > > Cheers and Best wishes to all of you! > > > George J. Yundt III > > 14516 Morningside Road > > Orland Park, IL 60462-7410 > > Office: 708-349-2121 > > Cell: 312-371-7551 > > Email: yundt@speakeasy.net > > Toll-Free: 888-349-2131 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:06 PM PST US From: RRamm52@cs.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other questio --> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com Gordon, Thanks so much for your insight. I'll fathfully report all the details on her as soon as possible....I'll be keeping this one. Rob CloudCraft@aol.com writes: > > Rob, > Sorry for the delay repsonding. You asked: > > " ... What do you think [or know] the shrike kit does for cruise? Full > throttle, LOP at about 12,000 feet? And winglets, if they matter in cruise > at that > altitude. We also have the Q tip props." > > Can't say I have scientific data. I've been a celebrity guest instructor in > > a handful of modded Commanders, some before-and-after, some just after. > > My observations are that flap gap seals have both added 8 to 10 knots -- and > > had zero effect on some airframes. > > Winglettes have added to initial altitude capability and changed the stall > characteristics. There is less rumbling and bucking (that could be the work > of > flap gap seals), stall is held off beyond a stock wing, but the stall is > very > abrupt when it does go. > > I like all the Shrike mods, don't get me wrong; I love the physical > appearance. However, most Shrike mods such as nose, rudder cap and stinger > have added > weight but not changed performance. In most cases, the nose and avionics > mods > have run the C.G. forward which would slow the airplane down in cruise > unless > the C.G. is pulled back with a weight at the last tail frames. > > Q Tips will reduce some of the buzz in the cabin (very subjective) but have > not shown me any performance changes at all. > > Of all the mods out there, the AeroDyne winglettes (NOT the bootleg ones > floating around) are my favorite because of the recognition lights and > strobes > that can be added. For the Commanders with the electric Grimes lights that > are > speed restricted (e.g. AC500 U &S), this is a most important accessory. > > The AeroDyne flap gap kit *could* add speed to your particular airplane and > if you have money laying around after any avionics upgrades, I'd spend it > there. (Note: I figure most guys want to upgrade the panel first, airframe > second.) > > Oh! Wait! Cleveland brakes with the snubber kit (from AeroAir) is a great > item and a must have if you operate on short strips. > > I hope money falls from the sky into your lap so you can go fly your > Commander and report the results of your mods! > > Be sure to let Sir Barry know of what mods you have and what you add so he > can update his files on your serial number. > > Wing Commander Gordon