Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:11 AM - Comments... (Matt Dralle)
2. 07:38 AM - Re: 500B winglet length (Moe)
3. 02:19 PM - NEW STUFF (bertberry1@aol.com)
4. 02:19 PM - NEW STUFF (bertberry1@aol.com)
5. 02:26 PM - Re: NEW STUFF (Barry Collman)
6. 07:01 PM - Re: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other questions (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
7. 07:44 PM - Re: 500B winglet length (Myron Ashley)
8. 08:14 PM - Re: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other questions ()
Message 1
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--> Commander-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 500B winglet length |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
Myron,
The Aerodyne (Commander Aero, Ohio) winglets appear not to add any length at
all. If you need an exact number (at the most outboard of the angle (?)
please advise, and I can go over to the airport and measure the overall
length, or anything else that you need on N680RR. This is a 680F(p).
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Myron Ashley" <mashley2@kc.rr.com>
Subject: Commander-List: 500B winglet length
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Myron Ashley" <mashley2@kc.rr.com>
>
> Hello,
> Does anybody know how much, if any, winglets add to the overall wingspan?
Also, Does anyone know where a operating manual for the Ray Jay turbo mod
can be found?
> Thanks,
> Myron Ashley
>
>
Message 3
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--> Commander-List message posted by: bertberry1@aol.com
Hot off the press, I just sent Nico several new scans. 980/840 Article, 685 Comparison,
680 Turbo II article.
Enjoy,
Bert
Message 4
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--> Commander-List message posted by: bertberry1@aol.com
Hot off the press, I just sent Nico several new scans. 980/840 Article, 685 Comparison,
680 Turbo II article.
Enjoy,
Bert
Message 5
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi Bert,
Re the "685 comparison", did you mean the 560A-680S document you sent earlier?
If not, I didn't seem to get the 685 one!
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: <bertberry1@aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: NEW STUFF
| --> Commander-List message posted by: bertberry1@aol.com
|
| Hot off the press, I just sent Nico several new scans. 980/840 Article, 685
Comparison, 680 Turbo II article.
|
| Enjoy,
|
| Bert
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other questions |
--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
HI KIDS..
The gap seals do make a difference in the cruse performance on the
Commander family. I have flown several "before & after" and noticed about a 1
- 4 kt improvement. However, the gap seals reduce the take off and obstical
clearance climb. I installed a set on a 560A many years ago and was working
from a short (1600) foor strip. The degridation in TO performance was
pronounced. If you look at the ramp built into the flap cutout, it is plain to
see that the air was intended to remain atached and excite the LE of the flap.
Covering this area does infact improve the speed, but at a cost.
Winglets seem to have a neutral to slightly negative effect on cruse
performance. At high operating weights and high altitudes where the airplane
is
flying at a high angle of attack, their may (?) be some improvement. The
winglets on the Commander are to small to make any real difference. Look at
the size compared to say a Boeing 737 (about a 3% increase in speed above FL
350) or Gulfstream and you will see the small size of the Commander winglet
wont change much. I flew only one "B & A" and the airplane was about 2kts
slower below 8 thousand , about the same above 10K. The main attraction is
asthetic and personaly, I would put up modest degridation in performance, they
look
great.
There are really only two things that truly make airplanes meaningfully
faster. A good GPS (and use it, always GPS direct) and more fuel. Virtually
all other mods make such a small difference that they will probably never
pay for themselves.
On another note. I just returned from delivering Jimmy Rodriguez" 500B
to him in San Juan PR. I was home only one day and then back to the
Caribbean for a 7 day cruse with my wife, yippee!!
Hope all is well in your "Commanderland" jb
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 500B winglet length |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Myron Ashley" <mashley2@kc.rr.com>
Thanks for the reply Moe. I am a new owner of a 500B that has winglets. I
will not be able to get it home for 2-3 weeks and I am trying to get hanger
space lined up. I did not know if the winglets added any length to the
already wide wingspan which would make it even harder to find hanger space.
If the stock wingspan of your airplane is the same as the 500B, I would
appreciate getting a good measurement from wingtip to wingtip.
Thanks,
Myron Ashley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500B winglet length
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
>
> Myron,
>
> The Aerodyne (Commander Aero, Ohio) winglets appear not to add any length
at
> all. If you need an exact number (at the most outboard of the angle (?)
> please advise, and I can go over to the airport and measure the overall
> length, or anything else that you need on N680RR. This is a 680F(p).
>
> Moe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Myron Ashley" <mashley2@kc.rr.com>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Commander-List: 500B winglet length
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Myron Ashley"
<mashley2@kc.rr.com>
> >
> > Hello,
> > Does anybody know how much, if any, winglets add to the overall
wingspan?
> Also, Does anyone know where a operating manual for the Ray Jay turbo mod
> can be found?
> > Thanks,
> > Myron Ashley
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Commander 500B Cruise performance and other questions |
--> Commander-List message posted by: <dfalik@sbcglobal.net>
I've only been flying a Twin Commander for 1.5 years (400 hr.) and
installed flap gap seals about 50 hr. ago. I don't know about speed
improvement but the T/O and landings have been a dream since they were
installed. The plane now "floats" slightly in ground effect and it is a
breeze to grease it in. After flying a single commander at 3250 GTW and
upgrading to a 500S at 6750 GTW setting it down without a thump was
quite a challenge until the gap seals were installed. Now it's easy to
"grease it" in. Slow speed handling "feels" greatly improved so it is
easier to maintain a more steady approach speed coming in over the
numbers which shortens the roll out.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
YOURTCFG@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other
questions
--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
HI KIDS..
The gap seals do make a difference in the cruse performance on
the
Commander family. I have flown several "before & after" and noticed
about a 1
- 4 kt improvement. However, the gap seals reduce the take off and
obstical
clearance climb. I installed a set on a 560A many years ago and was
working
from a short (1600) foor strip. The degridation in TO performance was
pronounced. If you look at the ramp built into the flap cutout, it is
plain to
see that the air was intended to remain atached and excite the LE of
the flap.
Covering this area does infact improve the speed, but at a cost.
Winglets seem to have a neutral to slightly negative effect on
cruse
performance. At high operating weights and high altitudes where the
airplane is
flying at a high angle of attack, their may (?) be some improvement.
The
winglets on the Commander are to small to make any real difference.
Look at
the size compared to say a Boeing 737 (about a 3% increase in speed
above FL
350) or Gulfstream and you will see the small size of the Commander
winglet
wont change much. I flew only one "B & A" and the airplane was about
2kts
slower below 8 thousand , about the same above 10K. The main
attraction is
asthetic and personaly, I would put up modest degridation in
performance, they look
great.
There are really only two things that truly make airplanes
meaningfully
faster. A good GPS (and use it, always GPS direct) and more fuel.
Virtually
all other mods make such a small difference that they will probably
never
pay for themselves.
On another note. I just returned from delivering Jimmy Rodriguez"
500B
to him in San Juan PR. I was home only one day and then back to the
Caribbean for a 7 day cruse with my wife, yippee!!
Hope all is well in your "Commanderland" jb
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