Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:10 AM - Highlight Two (Matt Dralle)
2. 05:52 AM - Hanger doors vs Winglets (Dan Farmer)
3. 06:23 AM - Re: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other questions (Moe)
4. 06:42 AM - Re: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other questions (Randy Dettmer, AIA)
5. 09:19 AM - Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets (RRamm52@cs.com)
6. 09:25 AM - Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
7. 11:54 AM - Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets (Moe)
8. 12:45 PM - Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets (MASON CHEVAILLIER)
9. 01:28 PM - Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets (Tom Fisher)
10. 02:03 PM - Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets (Moe)
11. 02:28 PM - Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets (Barry Collman)
12. 05:09 PM - Re: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other questions ()
13. 05:43 PM - Hangar door width (Larry Wokral)
14. 07:13 PM - Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
15. 07:17 PM - Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets (AEROCOMAND@aol.com)
16. 07:43 PM - Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets (John Vormbaum)
17. 07:56 PM - Re: 500B winglet length (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
18. 08:09 PM - Re: 500B winglet length (John Vormbaum)
19. 08:13 PM - Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets (nico css)
20. 08:13 PM - Re: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other questions (nico css)
Message 1
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--> Commander-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Please make a Contribution to support the continued operation and
upgrade of the Email List Forums at Matronics. There is no
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Below is a highlight of another one of the awesome Free Gifts
available along with this year's List Fund Raiser. In most cases,
these gifts have been either donated or provided at exceptional
discounts by aviation vendors that participate regularly on these
vary same Lists. I want to thank each of them for the generous
support of the Lists during this Fund Raiser. Please show your
support for their efforts by visiting their respective web sites.
Thank you for your kind support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Gift Highlight Number Two - Mechanics's Toolbox CD - Builder's Bookstore *
With your $60 or greater List Contribution, you can register to
receive a free copy of the 2005 edition of John Schwaner's Mechanic's
Toolbox CD. It is essentially a computerized version of the
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second is a Mechanic's Toolbox offering many of the most useful items
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To receive your copy, visit the List Contribution Web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
* This gift is provided by Andy Gold of The Builder's Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com/
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Hanger doors vs Winglets |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer@yahoo.com>
Myron;
After reading much good advice over the last couple of days I would like to throw
in my observation. Keep in mind that I have only been around Commanders
for a few years and therefore do not posses any hard expertise. A Commander with
wing tips is going far too fast just sitting still to get into a 52 foot door.
Even when the wheels are chocked it appears to be moving much faster than
average. I might offer my help. If you were inclined to trade your winglets
for my standard tips you might get slowed down enough to use that 52 foot hanger:-)))
Plus one of my tips already has some hanger rash and the first time
you hit the hanger with a wing tip I will have already taken on the anger for
you. Giving you a happier drive home.
truly yours
dan farmer
ps. to JB and Moe:
Isn't it obvious that a plane going faster while sitting still is going to float
farther?
They are also harder to park. Which should be kept in mind next fall.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other questions |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
Don,
About what speed do you use on final and "over the numbers"?
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: <dfalik@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other
questions
> --> Commander-List message posted by: <dfalik@sbcglobal.net>
>
> My perception is that the stall speed is reduced and therefore I can
> come in over the numbers at a more appropriate speed and height which
> makes the overall landing distance shorter and more manageable. The roll
> out may be longer but the combined landing and roll out to me appears
> shorter.
> Don
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> YOURTCFG@aol.com
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other
> questions
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 11/15/2005 4:25:42 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> moe@rosspistons.com writes:
>
> My perception is that the landing roll out is longer with the flap gap
> seals. What do you think?
>
>
> Yep, the airplane tends to float more. Probably due to the reduced
> drag
> caused by the reduced lift. If you never visit short strips, it wont
> matter. jb
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Commander 500B Cruise performance and other questions |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer@charter.net>
Hi all,
I have been enjoying all the discussion about flap gap seals, which I have
on my 680F. Since 6253X has been my only Commander (6 years and about 500
hours), I can't compare with others. However, I find that with careful
technique, I can "grease" many of my landings (which my passengers love). I
fly my final approach at between 90 & 100 knots, & over the fence at around
85 which seems very comfortable.
Randy Dettmer
680F / N6253X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Moe
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other
questions
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
Don,
About what speed do you use on final and "over the numbers"?
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: <dfalik@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other
questions
> --> Commander-List message posted by: <dfalik@sbcglobal.net>
>
> My perception is that the stall speed is reduced and therefore I can
> come in over the numbers at a more appropriate speed and height which
> makes the overall landing distance shorter and more manageable. The roll
> out may be longer but the combined landing and roll out to me appears
> shorter.
> Don
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> YOURTCFG@aol.com
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other
> questions
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 11/15/2005 4:25:42 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> moe@rosspistons.com writes:
>
> My perception is that the landing roll out is longer with the flap gap
> seals. What do you think?
>
>
> Yep, the airplane tends to float more. Probably due to the reduced
> drag
> caused by the reduced lift. If you never visit short strips, it wont
> matter. jb
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets |
--> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com
Dan, from Katrina country, Thank You for the excellent and witty, but true,
comments......we needed that.......
Rob Munro 500B[with winglets]
daniellfarmer@yahoo.com writes:
> Myron;
>
> After reading much good advice over the last couple of days I would like
> to throw in my observation. Keep in mind that I have only been around
> Commanders for a few years and therefore do not posses any hard expertise. A
> Commander with wing tips is going far too fast just sitting still to get into
a 52
> foot door. Even when the wheels are chocked it appears to be moving much
> faster than average. I might offer my help. If you were inclined to trade your
> winglets for my standard tips you might get slowed down enough to use that
> 52 foot hanger:-))) Plus one of my tips already has some hanger rash and the
> first time you hit the hanger with a wing tip I will have already taken on
> the anger for you. Giving you a happier drive home.
>
> truly yours
> dan farmer
> ps. to JB and Moe:
> Isn't it obvious that a plane going faster while sitting still is going to
> float farther?
> They are also harder to park. Which should be kept in mind next fall.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets |
--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
In a message dated 11/16/2005 5:53:03 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
daniellfarmer@yahoo.com writes:
A Commander with wing tips is going far too fast just sitting still
Amen!! The addition of a long nose adds about 11kts to the PAS (Parked Air
Speed). Winglets ad at least another 5. The square rudder cap is good for 3
Since the gap seals cannot be easily seen, they seem to have little effect
on the PAS. Non of this changes the stall or cruse speed, but man, DO IT
LOOK HOT!!!! :-)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
Dan,
After adding all three mods (Shroke nose, tips, flap gap seals) my findings
are:
40 kts faster at the bar
20 kts faster at the coffee shop
5 kts in the air
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hanger doors vs Winglets
> --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 11/16/2005 5:53:03 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> daniellfarmer@yahoo.com writes:
>
> A Commander with wing tips is going far too fast just sitting still
>
>
> Amen!! The addition of a long nose adds about 11kts to the PAS (Parked
Air
> Speed). Winglets ad at least another 5. The square rudder cap is good
for 3
> Since the gap seals cannot be easily seen, they seem to have little
effect
> on the PAS. Non of this changes the stall or cruse speed, but man, DO IT
> LOOK HOT!!!! :-)
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA@msn.com>
I WANT A SHROKE NOST. MASON
----- Original Message -----
From: Moe<mailto:moe@rosspistons.com>
To: commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hanger doors vs Winglets
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com<mailto:moe@rosspistons.com>>
Dan,
After adding all three mods (Shroke nose, tips, flap gap seals) my findings
are:
40 kts faster at the bar
20 kts faster at the coffee shop
5 kts in the air
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com<mailto:YOURTCFG@aol.com>>
To: <commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hanger doors vs Winglets
> --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com<mailto:YOURTCFG@aol.com>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/16/2005 5:53:03 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> daniellfarmer@yahoo.com<mailto:daniellfarmer@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> A Commander with wing tips is going far too fast just sitting still
>
>
> Amen!! The addition of a long nose adds about 11kts to the PAS (Parked
Air
> Speed). Winglets ad at least another 5. The square rudder cap is good
for 3
> Since the gap seals cannot be easily seen, they seem to have little
effect
> on the PAS. Non of this changes the stall or cruse speed, but man, DO IT
> LOOK HOT!!!! :-)
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
Drink enough long enough and you may get a Shroke nose.
TF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hanger doors vs Winglets
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA@msn.com>
>
> I WANT A SHROKE NOST. MASON
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Moe<mailto:moe@rosspistons.com>
> To: commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 1:37 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hanger doors vs Winglets
>
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe"
<moe@rosspistons.com<mailto:moe@rosspistons.com>>
>
> Dan,
>
> After adding all three mods (Shroke nose, tips, flap gap seals) my
findings
> are:
>
> 40 kts faster at the bar
> 20 kts faster at the coffee shop
> 5 kts in the air
>
> Moe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com<mailto:YOURTCFG@aol.com>>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hanger doors vs Winglets
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by:
YOURTCFG@aol.com<mailto:YOURTCFG@aol.com>
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 11/16/2005 5:53:03 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > daniellfarmer@yahoo.com<mailto:daniellfarmer@yahoo.com> writes:
> >
> > A Commander with wing tips is going far too fast just sitting still
> >
> >
> > Amen!! The addition of a long nose adds about 11kts to the PAS
(Parked
> Air
> > Speed). Winglets ad at least another 5. The square rudder cap is
good
> for 3
> > Since the gap seals cannot be easily seen, they seem to have little
> effect
> > on the PAS. Non of this changes the stall or cruse speed, but man,
DO IT
> > LOOK HOT!!!! :-)
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
Mason,
You have spelled it wornk. It is Shorke Nose, not Nost.
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hanger doors vs Winglets
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA@msn.com>
>
> I WANT A SHROKE NOST. MASON
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Moe<mailto:moe@rosspistons.com>
> To: commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 1:37 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hanger doors vs Winglets
>
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe"
<moe@rosspistons.com<mailto:moe@rosspistons.com>>
>
> Dan,
>
> After adding all three mods (Shroke nose, tips, flap gap seals) my
findings
> are:
>
> 40 kts faster at the bar
> 20 kts faster at the coffee shop
> 5 kts in the air
>
> Moe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com<mailto:YOURTCFG@aol.com>>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hanger doors vs Winglets
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by:
YOURTCFG@aol.com<mailto:YOURTCFG@aol.com>
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 11/16/2005 5:53:03 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > daniellfarmer@yahoo.com<mailto:daniellfarmer@yahoo.com> writes:
> >
> > A Commander with wing tips is going far too fast just sitting still
> >
> >
> > Amen!! The addition of a long nose adds about 11kts to the PAS
(Parked
> Air
> > Speed). Winglets ad at least another 5. The square rudder cap is
good
> for 3
> > Since the gap seals cannot be easily seen, they seem to have little
> effect
> > on the PAS. Non of this changes the stall or cruse speed, but man,
DO IT
> > LOOK HOT!!!! :-)
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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|
| Subject: | Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hay Moe,
Are you shore your wright?
BC
UK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hanger doors vs Winglets
| --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
|
| Mason,
|
| You have spelled it wornk. It is Shorke Nose, not Nost.
|
| Moe
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA@msn.com>
| To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hanger doors vs Winglets
|
|
| > --> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA@msn.com>
| >
| > I WANT A SHROKE NOST. MASON
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > From: Moe<mailto:moe@rosspistons.com>
| > To: commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>
| > Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 1:37 PM
| > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hanger doors vs Winglets
| >
| >
| > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe"
| <moe@rosspistons.com<mailto:moe@rosspistons.com>>
| >
| > Dan,
| >
| > After adding all three mods (Shroke nose, tips, flap gap seals) my
| findings
| > are:
| >
| > 40 kts faster at the bar
| > 20 kts faster at the coffee shop
| > 5 kts in the air
| >
| > Moe
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com<mailto:YOURTCFG@aol.com>>
| > To: <commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>>
| > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hanger doors vs Winglets
| >
| >
| > > --> Commander-List message posted by:
| YOURTCFG@aol.com<mailto:YOURTCFG@aol.com>
| > >
| > >
| > > In a message dated 11/16/2005 5:53:03 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
| > > daniellfarmer@yahoo.com<mailto:daniellfarmer@yahoo.com> writes:
| > >
| > > A Commander with wing tips is going far too fast just sitting still
| > >
| > >
| > > Amen!! The addition of a long nose adds about 11kts to the PAS
| (Parked
| > Air
| > > Speed). Winglets ad at least another 5. The square rudder cap is
| good
| > for 3
| > > Since the gap seals cannot be easily seen, they seem to have little
| > effect
| > > on the PAS. Non of this changes the stall or cruse speed, but man,
| DO IT
| > > LOOK HOT!!!! :-)
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Message 12
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| Subject: | Commander 500B Cruise performance and other questions |
--> Commander-List message posted by: <dfalik@sbcglobal.net>
I use 100 mph on final and now 85 mph over the numbers now that I have
the flap gap seals.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Dettmer, AIA
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other
questions
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA"
<rcdettmer@charter.net>
Hi all,
I have been enjoying all the discussion about flap gap seals, which I
have
on my 680F. Since 6253X has been my only Commander (6 years and about
500
hours), I can't compare with others. However, I find that with careful
technique, I can "grease" many of my landings (which my passengers
love). I
fly my final approach at between 90 & 100 knots, & over the fence at
around
85 which seems very comfortable.
Randy Dettmer
680F / N6253X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Moe
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other
questions
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
Don,
About what speed do you use on final and "over the numbers"?
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: <dfalik@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other
questions
> --> Commander-List message posted by: <dfalik@sbcglobal.net>
>
> My perception is that the stall speed is reduced and therefore I can
> come in over the numbers at a more appropriate speed and height which
> makes the overall landing distance shorter and more manageable. The
roll
> out may be longer but the combined landing and roll out to me appears
> shorter.
> Don
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> YOURTCFG@aol.com
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander 500B Cruise performance and
other
> questions
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 11/15/2005 4:25:42 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> moe@rosspistons.com writes:
>
> My perception is that the landing roll out is longer with the flap
gap
> seals. What do you think?
>
>
> Yep, the airplane tends to float more. Probably due to the reduced
> drag
> caused by the reduced lift. If you never visit short strips, it wont
> matter. jb
>
>
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Hangar door width |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Larry Wokral" <l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
--> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
>A careful man could probably squish a Commander into a 52 foot hangar
without too much trouble ;-).
Before committing to a hangar, go out and measure the door width yourself. I
rented a 50' hangar at Byron CA. (while my 500B was still undergoing its
conversion at Merlyn) because it was the only thing near its size around and
available. When I measured the opening, I found that it was really only
49'8". What was already too narrow had just became unacceptable. I had
rented it for a year at too high a cost waiting for the plane to be
completed before I measured the door - all for not.
By the way, I listed my plane on Controller.com about a week ago if anyone
is interested.
Larry Wokral
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets |
--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
In a message dated 11/16/2005 5:03:57 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
KAMALA@msn.com writes:
I WANT A SHROKE NOST.
I have the mold. How many do you want?? jb
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets |
--> Commander-List message posted by: AEROCOMAND@aol.com
COME ON GUYS....
ITS AN AEROCOMMANDER.....
MY 500B BECAME A 500S WHEN THE NOSE GOT LONG IN 1968 WITH FIBERGLASS...
GAP SEALS...??? WINGLETS...???
WHO NEEDS THEM......
THERE IS NOTHING THAN CRUISING AT 175 KTS AND THENNNNN....
GETTTTING THE ARM REST DOWN FOR A RIDE....
THANKS GIVEN TO ALL
N261JG
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
Well at least someone on this list has been drinking enough, long enough!
My airplane should be finished with its annual by the end of this week. No
Shorke Nose for me, but I did get a JPI installed, and I'm really looking
forward to doing lots of flying in '06!
Hey Moe, maybe I'll head down to SoCal soon. We can go to the bar, brag
about how fast our Aero Commanders are, and try to avoid getting our noses
shorken.
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hanger doors vs Winglets
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
>
> Mason,
>
> You have spelled it wornk. It is Shorke Nose, not Nost.
>
> Moe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <KAMALA@msn.com>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hanger doors vs Winglets
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON CHEVAILLIER"
<KAMALA@msn.com>
> >
> > I WANT A SHROKE NOST. MASON
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Moe<mailto:moe@rosspistons.com>
> > To: commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 1:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hanger doors vs Winglets
> >
> >
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe"
> <moe@rosspistons.com<mailto:moe@rosspistons.com>>
> >
> > Dan,
> >
> > After adding all three mods (Shroke nose, tips, flap gap seals) my
> findings
> > are:
> >
> > 40 kts faster at the bar
> > 20 kts faster at the coffee shop
> > 5 kts in the air
> >
> > Moe
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com<mailto:YOURTCFG@aol.com>>
> > To:
<commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>>
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hanger doors vs Winglets
> >
> >
> > > --> Commander-List message posted by:
> YOURTCFG@aol.com<mailto:YOURTCFG@aol.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 11/16/2005 5:53:03 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > > daniellfarmer@yahoo.com<mailto:daniellfarmer@yahoo.com> writes:
> > >
> > > A Commander with wing tips is going far too fast just sitting still
> > >
> > >
> > > Amen!! The addition of a long nose adds about 11kts to the PAS
> (Parked
> > Air
> > > Speed). Winglets ad at least another 5. The square rudder cap is
> good
> > for 3
> > > Since the gap seals cannot be easily seen, they seem to have
little
> > effect
> > > on the PAS. Non of this changes the stall or cruse speed, but man,
> DO IT
> > > LOOK HOT!!!! :-)
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: 500B winglet length |
--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
I just happen to have a pair of winglets hanging on my garage wall. I also
have a pair of "stock" 500S tips. So, I have the exact, empirical, real deal
difference (Drum roll please). The stock tip measures 5.25 inches, the
winglet measures. Lets see, should I send this in a later email and keep up the
suspense?? I guess not. The winglet measures 8.25 inches making installed
overall additional span 6.0 inches. There you have it!! jb
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 500B winglet length |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
Jimbob, thanks for the Real Answer!
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500B winglet length
> --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
>
> I just happen to have a pair of winglets hanging on my garage wall. I
also
> have a pair of "stock" 500S tips. So, I have the exact, empirical, real
deal
> difference (Drum roll please). The stock tip measures 5.25 inches, the
> winglet measures. Lets see, should I send this in a later email and keep
up the
> suspense?? I guess not. The winglet measures 8.25 inches making
installed
> overall additional span 6.0 inches. There you have it!! jb
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Hanger doors vs Winglets |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Pinoccio's nose got longer with wood.
----- Original Message -----
From: <AEROCOMAND@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hanger doors vs Winglets
> --> Commander-List message posted by: AEROCOMAND@aol.com
>
> COME ON GUYS....
>
> ITS AN AEROCOMMANDER.....
>
> MY 500B BECAME A 500S WHEN THE NOSE GOT LONG IN 1968 WITH FIBERGLASS...
>
> GAP SEALS...??? WINGLETS...???
>
> WHO NEEDS THEM......
>
> THERE IS NOTHING THAN CRUISING AT 175 KTS AND THENNNNN....
>
> GETTTTING THE ARM REST DOWN FOR A RIDE....
>
> THANKS GIVEN TO ALL
>
> N261JG
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other questions |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
On final everyone seems to go faster. I usually fall asleep over the
numbers.
----- Original Message -----
From: <dfalik@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other
questions
> --> Commander-List message posted by: <dfalik@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I use 100 mph on final and now 85 mph over the numbers now that I have
> the flap gap seals.
> Don
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
> Dettmer, AIA
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other
> questions
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA"
> <rcdettmer@charter.net>
>
> Hi all,
> I have been enjoying all the discussion about flap gap seals, which I
> have
> on my 680F. Since 6253X has been my only Commander (6 years and about
> 500
> hours), I can't compare with others. However, I find that with careful
> technique, I can "grease" many of my landings (which my passengers
> love). I
> fly my final approach at between 90 & 100 knots, & over the fence at
> around
> 85 which seems very comfortable.
>
> Randy Dettmer
> 680F / N6253X
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Moe
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other
> questions
>
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
>
> Don,
>
> About what speed do you use on final and "over the numbers"?
>
> Moe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <dfalik@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Commander 500B Cruise performance and other
> questions
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: <dfalik@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> > My perception is that the stall speed is reduced and therefore I can
> > come in over the numbers at a more appropriate speed and height which
> > makes the overall landing distance shorter and more manageable. The
> roll
> > out may be longer but the combined landing and roll out to me appears
> > shorter.
> > Don
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > YOURTCFG@aol.com
> > To: commander-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander 500B Cruise performance and
> other
> > questions
> >
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 11/15/2005 4:25:42 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > moe@rosspistons.com writes:
> >
> > My perception is that the landing roll out is longer with the flap
> gap
> > seals. What do you think?
> >
> >
> > Yep, the airplane tends to float more. Probably due to the reduced
> > drag
> > caused by the reduced lift. If you never visit short strips, it wont
> > matter. jb
> >
> >
>
>
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