Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:15 AM - Model 680 to be scrapped (Barry Collman)
2. 05:41 AM - Hoover technique question (Chris Schuermann)
3. 06:22 AM - Re: Hoover technique question (Brock Lorber)
4. 06:30 AM - Re: Hoover technique question (BobsV35B@aol.com)
5. 07:05 AM - Re: Hoover technique question (Chris Schuermann)
6. 07:32 AM - Re: Hoover technique question (BobsV35B@aol.com)
7. 09:07 AM - Re: Model 680 to be scrapped (Tom Fisher)
8. 09:37 AM - The List of Contributors Coming Soon - Make Sure You're Listed! (Matt Dralle)
9. 02:17 PM - Re: Model 680 to be scrapped (MASON Chevaillier)
10. 02:33 PM - Re: Model 680 to be scrapped (Moe)
11. 02:45 PM - Re: Hoover technique question (John Vormbaum)
12. 03:48 PM - Re: Model 680 to be scrapped (Barry Collman)
13. 03:49 PM - Re: Hoover technique question (nico css)
14. 04:39 PM - Re: Hoover technique question (Tom Fisher)
15. 06:06 PM - Re: Hoover technique question (Chris Schuermann)
16. 06:30 PM - Re: Fw: Fake FBI, CIA e-mails contain viruses (Jim Addington)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Model 680 to be scrapped |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi Guys,
I have received an email from Craig Cantwell, who had hoped to restore Model 680
s/n 353-43, N265X. This had sat with T&G Aviation at Chandler,AZ for many years.
However, the project had to be abandoned as the corrosion was too excessive and
the aircraft is being scrapped.
The *good* news is that there will be parts available to group members. I copy
the email from Craig, as requested:
It's with great sadness that I have to report scrapping N265X this week. After
a
year of on and off working to recover her and move her to Texas for restoration,
we made the decision to scrap her Monday morning.
Over the weekend, in preperation for splitting the fuselage for transport, we
found significant amounts of corrosion in the belly and discovered that the
exposed ears for the engine mounts had significant ex-folliant corrosion.
Coupling that, along with the amount of time required to replace essentially the
skin of the entire fuselage from the bottom of the window line down, and many of
the stringers in that area, pushed the value of the project to the point of
being completely impractical as well as economically insane.
We did bring home the forward section of the fuselage and the entire wing, as
well as all of the control surfaces. My intention is to go through what I
brought home and strip out all the usable, and rebuildable parts and put them up
for sale to the group first. I'm not going to be out trying to make a killing on
the parts, but recover my expenses and a little bit for my time.
As we've had a tremendous amount of trouble trying to get it where I can post to
the group, and I still can't right now, would you please pass this info on to
the group and let them know that these parts are going to become available just
as soon as I can get them off, cleaned up and identified. I would like to try
and sell them as a bulk package, but if someone needs one or two items we can
work something out.
Thanks for your help and all the information that you have provided to me on
265X and other Commanders,
Craig Cantwell
cvairwerks@ev1.net
cvcantwell@charter.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | Hoover technique question |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
I was watching an old Bob Hoover video tape with some friends last night
and noticed something unusual. I was always taught that the procedure
to feather and engine was: throttle-prop-mixture. Bob pulls the prop to
feather at full power, then mixture, then throttle. Anyone know why?
Seems to me that technique would be awfully hard on the counterweights,
but there must be some reason he does it that way.
just curious
Chris
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Brock Lorber <blorber@southwestcirrus.com>
Chris Schuermann wrote:
>--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
>
>
>I was watching an old Bob Hoover video tape with some friends last night
>and noticed something unusual. I was always taught that the procedure
>to feather and engine was: throttle-prop-mixture. Bob pulls the prop to
>feather at full power, then mixture, then throttle. Anyone know why?
>Seems to me that technique would be awfully hard on the counterweights,
>but there must be some reason he does it that way.
>
>just curious
>Chris
>
>
I've never heard anyone accuse Hoover of being kind to the equipment (no
matter who owned it).
Brock
702-510-7728
http://www.southwestcirrus.com/n400ch
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
--> Commander-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
Good Morning Chris,
There is considerable evidence that tells us that feathering by hitting the
feather button first is the easiest on the engine. If you close the throttle
first, the rings may chatter and all of the loads on the crankshaft change
drastically.
Please remember that I am not an expert on this stuff, but am just reporting
what I have been told over the last fifty-eight plus years of flying
multiengine airplanes.
It is my recollection that, back in the days of big round engines, American
Airlines did as Bob Hoover did, feather button first.
I worked for United Air Lines and our procedure was to first, close the
throttle, then cut the mixture, and only then, hit the feather button.
The discussion came up as to why American did it one way and we did it
another even though we were flying identical equipment.
The answer given was that UAL wanted us to have those two extra steps before
we hit the feather button so as to give us more time to realize our mistake
if we were shutting down the wrong engine. Since I am a basic bumble handed
ignoramus, I liked our company's philosophy. When instructing in light twins I
always taught shutting down an engine in small twins following the UAL
procedure. Identify the failed engine, verify by closing the throttle, make a
second check by cutting the mixture, and then, pull back the propellor control
to feather the engine.
Incidentally, one of the first airplanes on which I did a lot of multiengine
instruction was Aero Commander 520 serial number 24. To feather the
propellor on that airplane, you pulled one of two T handles. There was one mounted
just above and to the left of the pilot's head and another over above the
co-pilot's head. Once that handle was pulled, there was no going back. You
could not unfeather the propellor until you were back on the ground and had
blade paddles at your disposal.
As long as you are absolutely positive that you will never make the kinds of
mistakes that I often make, the American Airlines procedure is probably the
easiest on the engine. Since Bob Hoover didn't really care which engine was
shut down first, making a mistake was not a problem.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 11/26/2005 7:41:40 A.M. Central Standard Time,
cschuerm@cox.net writes:
I was watching an old Bob Hoover video tape with some friends last night
and noticed something unusual. I was always taught that the procedure
to feather and engine was: throttle-prop-mixture. Bob pulls the prop to
feather at full power, then mixture, then throttle. Anyone know why?
Seems to me that technique would be awfully hard on the counterweights,
but there must be some reason he does it that way.
just curious
Chris
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
> The answer given was that UAL wanted us to have those two extra steps before
> we hit the feather button so as to give us more time to realize our mistake
> if we were shutting down the wrong engine.
Sounds like a good answer to me. I also considered that there are some
significant differences in the feathering characteristics of different
prop designs as well. A "compact hub" Hartzel has a nice smooth
feather. A "steel hub" feather almost qualifies as sudden-stoppage :-)
The Shrike that Hoover flew also appears to have unfeathering
accumulators. (was that a factory option?)
Wonder how his engines held up over the years and what kinds of problems
occured that were a result of his "unusual" operation..... Would love to
talk to the mechanics who maintained his Commanders.
thanks
chris
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
--> Commander-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
Good Morning Chris,
I do not know whether or not the accumulators were a factory option, but I
have made a practice of not doing any intentional feathering in any airplane
not so equipped.
It would be interesting to talk to the mechanics who maintained any of Bob's
airplanes. I have been told, via the rumor mill, that no adverse effects
were ever noted.
These engines we have are truly amazing devices!
Incidentally, I did have to feather the left engine on serial number
twenty-four. It literally jerked to a stop. Since the hydraulic pump was on the
left
engine, I had to use the hand pump to get pressure to extend the gear and
flaps, plus keep up pressure to get any brakes at all. That airplane did not
have nose wheel steering and the only way to keep it straight was via the use
of aerodynamic controls assisted by braking action. The hand pump was so
slow building pressure, that I elected to use no flaps for landing and save
what pressure I could get for the brakes.
After shutting down the right engine, the airplane was towed back to the
hangar. As we were securing it, I tried to move the left propellor. The engine
was frozen solid. There was no way I could move it. I pulled on the
propellor of the right engine to see how it felt. To my surprise it was also
frozen
solid. Both engines were shot and had to be replaced!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 11/26/2005 9:06:25 A.M. Central Standard Time,
cschuerm@cox.net writes:
The Shrike that Hoover flew also appears to have unfeathering
accumulators. (was that a factory option?)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Model 680 to be scrapped |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
I need a number of parts.
Tom F.
C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Commander-List: Model 680 to be scrapped
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman"
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I have received an email from Craig Cantwell, who had hoped to restore
Model 680
> s/n 353-43, N265X. This had sat with T&G Aviation at Chandler,AZ for many
years.
> However, the project had to be abandoned as the corrosion was too
excessive and
> the aircraft is being scrapped.
>
> The *good* news is that there will be parts available to group members. I
copy
> the email from Craig, as requested:
>
> It's with great sadness that I have to report scrapping N265X this week.
After a
> year of on and off working to recover her and move her to Texas for
restoration,
> we made the decision to scrap her Monday morning.
> Over the weekend, in preperation for splitting the fuselage for transport,
we
> found significant amounts of corrosion in the belly and discovered that
the
> exposed ears for the engine mounts had significant ex-folliant corrosion.
> Coupling that, along with the amount of time required to replace
essentially the
> skin of the entire fuselage from the bottom of the window line down, and
many of
> the stringers in that area, pushed the value of the project to the point
of
> being completely impractical as well as economically insane.
>
> We did bring home the forward section of the fuselage and the entire wing,
as
> well as all of the control surfaces. My intention is to go through what I
> brought home and strip out all the usable, and rebuildable parts and put
them up
> for sale to the group first. I'm not going to be out trying to make a
killing on
> the parts, but recover my expenses and a little bit for my time.
>
> As we've had a tremendous amount of trouble trying to get it where I can
post to
> the group, and I still can't right now, would you please pass this info on
to
> the group and let them know that these parts are going to become available
just
> as soon as I can get them off, cleaned up and identified. I would like to
try
> and sell them as a bulk package, but if someone needs one or two items we
can
> work something out.
>
> Thanks for your help and all the information that you have provided to me
on
> 265X and other Commanders,
> Craig Cantwell
> cvairwerks@ev1.net
> cvcantwell@charter.net
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | The List of Contributors Coming Soon - Make Sure You're |
Listed!
--> Commander-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Hi Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On
December 1st I post a list of everyone that so generously made a
Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly
thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of
Contributors? As a number of people have pointed out, the List seems
at least, if not a whole lot more, as valuable as a
building/flying/recreating tool as a typical your magazine
subscription. We won't even talk about a newsstand price... :-)
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming
LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a
Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa or
M/C on the SSL Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by popping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a
Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that
its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't
forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped
you! I love to feel the love... :-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Model 680 to be scrapped |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala@msn.com>
cc, i would like a right main gear. mason
>From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
>Reply-To: commander-list@matronics.com
>To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Model 680 to be scrapped
>Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:03:42 -0800
>
>--> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher"
><tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
>
>I need a number of parts.
>
>Tom F.
>C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM)
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
>To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Commander-List: Model 680 to be scrapped
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman"
><barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
> >
> > Hi Guys,
> >
> > I have received an email from Craig Cantwell, who had hoped to restore
>Model 680
> > s/n 353-43, N265X. This had sat with T&G Aviation at Chandler,AZ for
>many
>years.
> > However, the project had to be abandoned as the corrosion was too
>excessive and
> > the aircraft is being scrapped.
> >
> > The *good* news is that there will be parts available to group members.
>I
>copy
> > the email from Craig, as requested:
> >
> > It's with great sadness that I have to report scrapping N265X this week.
>After a
> > year of on and off working to recover her and move her to Texas for
>restoration,
> > we made the decision to scrap her Monday morning.
> > Over the weekend, in preperation for splitting the fuselage for
>transport,
>we
> > found significant amounts of corrosion in the belly and discovered that
>the
> > exposed ears for the engine mounts had significant ex-folliant
>corrosion.
> > Coupling that, along with the amount of time required to replace
>essentially the
> > skin of the entire fuselage from the bottom of the window line down, and
>many of
> > the stringers in that area, pushed the value of the project to the point
>of
> > being completely impractical as well as economically insane.
> >
> > We did bring home the forward section of the fuselage and the entire
>wing,
>as
> > well as all of the control surfaces. My intention is to go through what
>I
> > brought home and strip out all the usable, and rebuildable parts and put
>them up
> > for sale to the group first. I'm not going to be out trying to make a
>killing on
> > the parts, but recover my expenses and a little bit for my time.
> >
> > As we've had a tremendous amount of trouble trying to get it where I can
>post to
> > the group, and I still can't right now, would you please pass this info
>on
>to
> > the group and let them know that these parts are going to become
>available
>just
> > as soon as I can get them off, cleaned up and identified. I would like
>to
>try
> > and sell them as a bulk package, but if someone needs one or two items
>we
>can
> > work something out.
> >
> > Thanks for your help and all the information that you have provided to
>me
>on
> > 265X and other Commanders,
> > Craig Cantwell
> > cvairwerks@ev1.net
> > cvcantwell@charter.net
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Model 680 to be scrapped |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
Mason,
Do you need everything on the gear, or just some parts?
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Model 680 to be scrapped
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala@msn.com>
>
> cc, i would like a right main gear. mason
>
>
> >From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
> >Reply-To: commander-list@matronics.com
> >To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: Commander-List: Model 680 to be scrapped
> >Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:03:42 -0800
> >
> >--> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher"
> ><tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
> >
> >I need a number of parts.
> >
> >Tom F.
> >C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM)
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
> >To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Commander-List: Model 680 to be scrapped
> >
> >
> > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman"
> ><barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
> > >
> > > Hi Guys,
> > >
> > > I have received an email from Craig Cantwell, who had hoped to restore
> >Model 680
> > > s/n 353-43, N265X. This had sat with T&G Aviation at Chandler,AZ for
> >many
> >years.
> > > However, the project had to be abandoned as the corrosion was too
> >excessive and
> > > the aircraft is being scrapped.
> > >
> > > The *good* news is that there will be parts available to group
members.
> >I
> >copy
> > > the email from Craig, as requested:
> > >
> > > It's with great sadness that I have to report scrapping N265X this
week.
> >After a
> > > year of on and off working to recover her and move her to Texas for
> >restoration,
> > > we made the decision to scrap her Monday morning.
> > > Over the weekend, in preperation for splitting the fuselage for
> >transport,
> >we
> > > found significant amounts of corrosion in the belly and discovered
that
> >the
> > > exposed ears for the engine mounts had significant ex-folliant
> >corrosion.
> > > Coupling that, along with the amount of time required to replace
> >essentially the
> > > skin of the entire fuselage from the bottom of the window line down,
and
> >many of
> > > the stringers in that area, pushed the value of the project to the
point
> >of
> > > being completely impractical as well as economically insane.
> > >
> > > We did bring home the forward section of the fuselage and the entire
> >wing,
> >as
> > > well as all of the control surfaces. My intention is to go through
what
> >I
> > > brought home and strip out all the usable, and rebuildable parts and
put
> >them up
> > > for sale to the group first. I'm not going to be out trying to make a
> >killing on
> > > the parts, but recover my expenses and a little bit for my time.
> > >
> > > As we've had a tremendous amount of trouble trying to get it where I
can
> >post to
> > > the group, and I still can't right now, would you please pass this
info
> >on
> >to
> > > the group and let them know that these parts are going to become
> >available
> >just
> > > as soon as I can get them off, cleaned up and identified. I would like
> >to
> >try
> > > and sell them as a bulk package, but if someone needs one or two items
> >we
> >can
> > > work something out.
> > >
> > > Thanks for your help and all the information that you have provided
to
> >me
> >on
> > > 265X and other Commanders,
> > > Craig Cantwell
> > > cvairwerks@ev1.net
> > > cvcantwell@charter.net
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
I've had a couple of conversations with Victor Aviation, on my home field
(PAO), who sponsored Hoover. He ran their engines for the last 8 or 9 years
of his airshow routine. Victor tore them down after every other season, but
were quick to point out that they looked great & would have made TBO with no
problem regardless of how Hoover treated them. Of course, I have no idea how
much of that is truth and how much is marketing to sell more Victor
engines...
In any case, Hoover's treatment of engines sure seems to dispel any
shock-cooling fears; full power, feather, glide, full power, weekend after
weekend....yikes.
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question
> --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
>
>
> BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
> > The answer given was that UAL wanted us to have those two extra steps
before
> > we hit the feather button so as to give us more time to realize our
mistake
> > if we were shutting down the wrong engine.
>
> Sounds like a good answer to me. I also considered that there are some
> significant differences in the feathering characteristics of different
> prop designs as well. A "compact hub" Hartzel has a nice smooth
> feather. A "steel hub" feather almost qualifies as sudden-stoppage :-)
> The Shrike that Hoover flew also appears to have unfeathering
> accumulators. (was that a factory option?)
> Wonder how his engines held up over the years and what kinds of problems
> occured that were a result of his "unusual" operation..... Would love to
> talk to the mechanics who maintained his Commanders.
>
> thanks
> chris
>
>
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Model 680 to be scrapped |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi All,
Anyone interested in seeing whether Craig has parts they need from his Model 680
needs to contact him directly. He's not able to get on the Chatlist right now.
His email addresses were at the foot of the message I copied.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Model 680 to be scrapped
| --> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher"
<tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
|
| I need a number of parts.
|
| Tom F.
| C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM)
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
| To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: Commander-List: Model 680 to be scrapped
|
|
| > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman"
| <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
| >
| > Hi Guys,
| >
| > I have received an email from Craig Cantwell, who had hoped to restore
| Model 680
| > s/n 353-43, N265X. This had sat with T&G Aviation at Chandler,AZ for many
| years.
| > However, the project had to be abandoned as the corrosion was too
| excessive and
| > the aircraft is being scrapped.
| >
| > The *good* news is that there will be parts available to group members. I
| copy
| > the email from Craig, as requested:
| >
| > It's with great sadness that I have to report scrapping N265X this week.
| After a
| > year of on and off working to recover her and move her to Texas for
| restoration,
| > we made the decision to scrap her Monday morning.
| > Over the weekend, in preperation for splitting the fuselage for transport,
| we
| > found significant amounts of corrosion in the belly and discovered that
| the
| > exposed ears for the engine mounts had significant ex-folliant corrosion.
| > Coupling that, along with the amount of time required to replace
| essentially the
| > skin of the entire fuselage from the bottom of the window line down, and
| many of
| > the stringers in that area, pushed the value of the project to the point
| of
| > being completely impractical as well as economically insane.
| >
| > We did bring home the forward section of the fuselage and the entire wing,
| as
| > well as all of the control surfaces. My intention is to go through what I
| > brought home and strip out all the usable, and rebuildable parts and put
| them up
| > for sale to the group first. I'm not going to be out trying to make a
| killing on
| > the parts, but recover my expenses and a little bit for my time.
| >
| > As we've had a tremendous amount of trouble trying to get it where I can
| post to
| > the group, and I still can't right now, would you please pass this info on
| to
| > the group and let them know that these parts are going to become available
| just
| > as soon as I can get them off, cleaned up and identified. I would like to
| try
| > and sell them as a bulk package, but if someone needs one or two items we
| can
| > work something out.
| >
| > Thanks for your help and all the information that you have provided to me
| on
| > 265X and other Commanders,
| > Craig Cantwell
| > cvairwerks@ev1.net
| > cvcantwell@charter.net
| >
| >
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
I guess it's like a woman. You can do whatever you want for however long you
want as long as you love them.
Identifying the right engine to feather, as Bob Siegfried said, is perhaps
more important than thinking about the engine at a time when reciting poetry
is out of the question. I have shown you guys this Apache crash previously,
but it illustrates the uselessness of a good engine in a wreck: this student
pulled the wrong prop lever back during an exercise.
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/Aviation/Accidents/Apache%20Crash/zs-str_img2.jpg
The Apache needs the left engine for hydraulics and other necessary things
and here it is evident that the left engine was feathered - too close to the
ground to effect a restart.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
>
> I've had a couple of conversations with Victor Aviation, on my home field
> (PAO), who sponsored Hoover. He ran their engines for the last 8 or 9
years
> of his airshow routine. Victor tore them down after every other season,
but
> were quick to point out that they looked great & would have made TBO with
no
> problem regardless of how Hoover treated them. Of course, I have no idea
how
> much of that is truth and how much is marketing to sell more Victor
> engines...
>
> In any case, Hoover's treatment of engines sure seems to dispel any
> shock-cooling fears; full power, feather, glide, full power, weekend after
> weekend....yikes.
>
> /John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm@cox.net>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann
<cschuerm@cox.net>
> >
> >
> > BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
> > > The answer given was that UAL wanted us to have those two extra steps
> before
> > > we hit the feather button so as to give us more time to realize our
> mistake
> > > if we were shutting down the wrong engine.
> >
> > Sounds like a good answer to me. I also considered that there are some
> > significant differences in the feathering characteristics of different
> > prop designs as well. A "compact hub" Hartzel has a nice smooth
> > feather. A "steel hub" feather almost qualifies as sudden-stoppage :-)
> > The Shrike that Hoover flew also appears to have unfeathering
> > accumulators. (was that a factory option?)
> > Wonder how his engines held up over the years and what kinds of problems
> > occured that were a result of his "unusual" operation..... Would love to
> > talk to the mechanics who maintained his Commanders.
> >
> > thanks
> > chris
> >
> >
>
>
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
> > A "compact hub" Hartzel has a nice smooth
> > feather. A "steel hub" feather almost qualifies as sudden-stoppage :-)
> > The Shrike that Hoover flew also appears to have unfeathering
> > accumulators. (was that a factory option?)
This brings up a few points I would like to get opinions on;
1. How do I identify which hub (compact vs. steel) is on my FLP?
2. How do I identify if this aircraft has unfeathering accumulators?
3. Are there any issues if you leave the prop feathered (on the ground) for
any period of time?
4. When I taxi around at idle with the IO720's the prop noise really bothers
people on the ramp, I like the idea increasing the pitch to substantially
reduce the exterior noise made by the props. Yes, this slightly loads the
engine but I don't go to full feather, after I glide by I reset to full
fine, any opinions on this practice?
I sort of did the same thing on my motorcycle when I passed a horse on the
road, I would pull in the clutch and coast past the horse then eased into
resuming cruising.
Tom F.
C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css"
<nico@cybersuperstore.com>
>
> I guess it's like a woman. You can do whatever you want for however long
you
> want as long as you love them.
>
> Identifying the right engine to feather, as Bob Siegfried said, is perhaps
> more important than thinking about the engine at a time when reciting
poetry
> is out of the question. I have shown you guys this Apache crash
previously,
> but it illustrates the uselessness of a good engine in a wreck: this
student
> pulled the wrong prop lever back during an exercise.
>
>
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/Aviation/Accidents/Apache%20Crash/zs-st
r_img2.jpg
>
> The Apache needs the left engine for hydraulics and other necessary things
> and here it is evident that the left engine was feathered - too close to
the
> ground to effect a restart.
>
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum"
<john@vormbaum.com>
> >
> > I've had a couple of conversations with Victor Aviation, on my home
field
> > (PAO), who sponsored Hoover. He ran their engines for the last 8 or 9
> years
> > of his airshow routine. Victor tore them down after every other season,
> but
> > were quick to point out that they looked great & would have made TBO
with
> no
> > problem regardless of how Hoover treated them. Of course, I have no idea
> how
> > much of that is truth and how much is marketing to sell more Victor
> > engines...
> >
> > In any case, Hoover's treatment of engines sure seems to dispel any
> > shock-cooling fears; full power, feather, glide, full power, weekend
after
> > weekend....yikes.
> >
> > /John
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm@cox.net>
> > To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question
> >
> >
> > > --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann
> <cschuerm@cox.net>
> > >
> > >
> > > BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
> > > > The answer given was that UAL wanted us to have those two extra
steps
> > before
> > > > we hit the feather button so as to give us more time to realize our
> > mistake
> > > > if we were shutting down the wrong engine.
> > >
> > > Sounds like a good answer to me. I also considered that there are
some
> > > significant differences in the feathering characteristics of different
> > > prop designs as well. A "compact hub" Hartzel has a nice smooth
> > > feather. A "steel hub" feather almost qualifies as sudden-stoppage
:-)
> > > The Shrike that Hoover flew also appears to have unfeathering
> > > accumulators. (was that a factory option?)
> > > Wonder how his engines held up over the years and what kinds of
problems
> > > occured that were a result of his "unusual" operation..... Would love
to
> > > talk to the mechanics who maintained his Commanders.
> > >
> > > thanks
> > > chris
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
Tom Fisher wrote:
> 1. How do I identify which hub (compact vs. steel) is on my FLP?
Compact hub is a simple two piece hub. There is a front and back and
the two bits bolt together to hold the blades.
The steel hub design has a two-piece clamp around each blade. You can
see the clamps just by looking where the blades enter the spinner.
As far as I know, there is not yet a compact hub option for the 720
powered commanders.
> 2. How do I identify if this aircraft has unfeathering accumulators?
Check the POH? :-)
Depending on design, you should find a spherical accumulator bottle
somewhere in the nacelle if you have this feature (doubtful since that
airplane was not designed as a basic trainer)
> 3. Are there any issues if you leave the prop feathered (on the ground) for
> any period of time?
Not on a steel hub. Can't say for sure on a compact.
They do shake a little on startup from the feathered position though so
it is recomended that you use a set of paddles to reset the blades and
let the feather stops drop back into position.
> 4. I like the idea increasing the pitch to substantially
> reduce the exterior noise made by the props.
> any opinions on this practice?
I don't believe you'll find that you can do that. The governer will
only govern down to about 1800 RPM. You'll keep pulling back on the
knobs and then they'll suddenly feather.
Chris
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Fw: Fake FBI, CIA e-mails contain viruses |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington@charter.net>
If it is a lot of trouble don't do it but, if it is easy I would like to
down load the whole thing.
Thanks
Jim Addington
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of nico css
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Fake FBI, CIA e-mails contain viruses
--> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Jim,
The site was not developed to print the whole book. However, if you pick an
item from the menu on the left-hand side of the screen (either Home, Pages,
or Copyright), you will be able to navigate the site. The "Pages" option
will open a drop-down box in which you can select any of the 87 pages of the
book; as well as a zoom bar with which you can zoom into the photographs in
the book. If you wish to print the book, I guess you may try to print every
page. Tip: to page through the book faster, keep focus on the drop-down box
and use the up and down arrows to turn the pages.
If you wish to print the whole book, let me know. I can add code to the site
to do that, and add an item in the menu bar on the left-hand side to start
the print process.
Thanks for the feedback, Jim.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington@charter.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fw: Fake FBI, CIA e-mails contain viruses
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington"
<jtaddington@charter.net>
>
> Nico,
>
> This one had a valid FBI phone number was what got me concerned, I don't
> know if this was just a copy cat or what because it did not have the
> attachment. When I told the real FBI lady about not getting an answer she
> said they had probably shut down answering that number. Thanks for the
> information.
> While I have you I tried to print the Cont. Motors book and when I went to
> file, print, and print view, it would only show the small window that was
> the page number. I did not try using the other print because of the number
> of pages and I wanted to see that it would print on the page properly.
> Any ideas?
>
> Jim Addington
> N444BD
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of nico css
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Fake FBI, CIA e-mails contain viruses
>
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css"
<nico@cybersuperstore.com>
>
>
> Fake FBI, CIA e-mails contain viruses
>
>
> The FBI warned Internet users about a scam involving e-mails appearing to
> come from the FBI, with a computer virus attached.
>
> "These scam e-mails tell the recipients that their Internet use has been
> monitored by the FBI and that they have accessed illegal websites," the
law
> enforcement agency said in a statement.
>
>
> "The e-mails then direct recipients to open an attachment and answer
> questions."
>
> The FBI statement said recipients of this or similar messages "should know
> that the FBI does not engage in the practice of sending unsolicited
e-mails
> to the public in this manner."
>
> The messages appear to be sent from an e-mail address such as
mailAfbi.gov,
> postAfbi.gov, adminAfbi.gov or a similar address.
>
> The Internet security firm Sophos said similar e-mails may appear to come
> from the Central Intelligence Agency, but it noted that both contain a
> strain of the Sober virus that has been spreading worldwide.
>
> In a four-hour period Tuesday, the worm "has accounted for over 61 percent
> of all viruses reported to Sophos, making it currently the most prevalent
> virus spreading across the world."
>
>
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