---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/28/05: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:10 AM - Please Read - Who is "Matt Dralle" and What are "The Lists"...? (Matt Dralle) 2. 03:28 AM - Re: Commander in "Clear and Present Danger" (Barry Collman) 3. 01:31 PM - How Hoover Unfeathers (CloudCraft@aol.com) 4. 01:45 PM - Re: Commander in "Clear and Present Danger" (B777atkins@aol.com) 5. 02:27 PM - Re: How Hoover Unfeathers (Chris Schuermann) 6. 02:30 PM - Commanders in the movies (todd@hindmarsh.us) 7. 02:37 PM - Re: Commanders in the movies (Barry Collman) 8. 02:52 PM - Re: Hoover technique question (Steven) 9. 04:21 PM - Re: Hoover technique question (Tom Fisher) 10. 06:32 PM - Re: Hoover technique question () 11. 07:02 PM - Re: Hoover technique question (tylor.hall) 12. 07:10 PM - Back issues of IFR, IFR Refresher, Light Plane Maintenance, Aviation Consumer, Aviation Safety (Stan) 13. 07:43 PM - Re: Commander in "Clear and Present Danger" (Stan) 14. 07:52 PM - Re: Hoover technique question (CloudCraft@aol.com) 15. 08:57 PM - Re: Commanders in the movies () 16. 09:12 PM - Re: Hoover technique question (YOURTCFG@aol.com) 17. 10:07 PM - Continental Engines Manual (nico css) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:10:38 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Commander-List: Please Read - Who is "Matt Dralle" and What are "The Lists"...? --> Commander-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists? Well, I've been working in the information technology industry for over 20 years primarily in computer networking design and implementation. I've also had a rather extensive background in web development and CGI design during this period. I started the Matronics Email Lists back in 1990 with about 30 fellow RV builders from around the world. Since that time, I have added 50 other kinds of aircraft related Lists to the line up and numerous other List related services such as the Archives and Search Engine just to name a few. For the upmost in flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own servers here locally. Other support systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched network infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda spam filter, a local T1 Internet router, and a commercial business T1 Internet connection with static addressing. The computer servers found here include two, dual processor Xeon Linux systems dedicated to the email and web functions respectfully, and another P4 Linux system serving as a remote storage disk farm for the archives, databases, and for an on-line, hard drive-based backup system with 3.2 Terabytes of storage. This entire system is protected by multiple commercial-grade uninterrupted power supply (UPS) systems that assure the Lists are available even during a local power outage! I recently upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new power feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the Computer Center for the Matronics Email Lists. Here's a new composite photo of the List Computer Center following this Summer's upgrades! http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister. But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've stated before, I don't support any of these systems with commercial advertising on the Lists. It is supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you... and you... and YOU! To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make a small Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of this ever-expanding system. Its solely YOUR Contributions that keep it running! Please make a Contribution today to support these Lists! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:28:39 AM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander in "Clear and Present Danger" --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" Hi Stan, It was indeed N825WD 'blown up' in the film, but thanks to some brilliant detective work (by Ricardo?) a few years ago, it was 'blown up' by transposing special effects over the aircraft's image. It has been registered to Barron Thomas Aviation Inc since February 1994. I got in touch with him a few years ago to see what became of N825WD, but, how can I put it ...............let's just say he wasn't very helpful! Another Commander, registered in Spain as EC-EAQ, appeared in the James Bond film "Living Daylights" (1987) landing in the opposite direction to Bond who was taking off in a C-123 or C-130 (I cannot remember!). Anyone know of any more? Very Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Commander-List: Commander in "Clear and Present Danger" | --> Commander-List message posted by: swperk@earthlink.net | | Hi folks, | | I was watching the movie "Clear and Present Danger" tonight and there is a scene where a bathtub nacelle Commander is blown up in a hangar. The registration number is N825WD and it comes back as being assigned to a 1960 Commander 720 AltiCruiser, serial number 850-13. | | Does anyone know the history of this plane (Sir Barry?) Is it still flying? | | On a related topic, what other movies, documentaries, etc. in public release have featured Twin Commanders? | | Regards, | Stan | | | | | | | ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:31:15 PM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Commander-List: How Hoover Unfeathers --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com OK Boys, Here is THE answer, from a good friend whose father is the Vice President of Victor Engines: Hoover's airplane had unfeathering PUMPS that were auto activated when the prop levers were moved full forward. Probably a totally unique installation, probably installed before Victor started maintaining Hoover's airplane. By the way, I was told that Hoover's engines made it all the way to T.B.O. Ponder that when debating shut-down technique. Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:42 PM PST US From: B777atkins@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander in "Clear and Present Danger" --> Commander-List message posted by: B777atkins@aol.com Just a little bit of info on the 720 commander in Clear and Present Danger. I flew it for 2 years in 1965 and 1966. The WD in the registration is for Winn Dixie, of Winn Dixie, Kwik Chek grocery stores. A ,used to be ,big chain in the South. Cliff Atkins ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:27:54 PM PST US From: Chris Schuermann Subject: Re: Commander-List: How Hoover Unfeathers --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann CloudCraft@aol.com wrote: > By the way, I was told that Hoover's engines made it all the way to T.B.O. Any mention of how many cylinders were "topped" along the way? I'd certainly believe that the bottom end of an IO-540 would easily take the added strain, but I'd be amazed if 12 cylinders ran for 1800 hours under those conditions. Someone else mentioned that the engines were "gone through" every other season. Wonder what that entailed... chris ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:30:40 PM PST US From: todd@hindmarsh.us Subject: Commander-List: Commanders in the movies --> Commander-List message posted by: todd@hindmarsh.us There was also a commander in the movie "Heaven's Prisoners". ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:37:20 PM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commanders in the movies --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" Hi Todd, Gosh, yes you're right! I had forgotten that one!! It was John Peroyea's 560A(HC) s/n 312, N13FT, now N124JP. It was a model though that they dropped into the sea from a chopper. John told me at the '95 Fly-In that he'd just had the Commander re-painted, and they burnt the new paint with the smoke canister! Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Commander-List: Commanders in the movies | --> Commander-List message posted by: todd@hindmarsh.us | | There was also a commander in the movie "Heaven's Prisoners". | | | | | | | ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:14 PM PST US From: "Steven" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question --> Commander-List message posted by: "Steven" > > Cutting the mixture keeps a compression charge in the cylinders, > cushioning > the deceleration of the engine. >Wing Commander Gordon I wondered about that as a reason.... My Dad used to fly low-level magnetometer surveys back in the sixties and early seventies, mostly in 680E's. Within a short period of time they would be clawing their way up a mountain just below stall, and the next moment be screaming down a mountain pulling all the power off. If I have my facts right, they were going through gearboxes pretty often until they started pulling the power off with mixture rather than throttle, leaving cylinders charged..... The props were no longer driving the engines so hard. I might have this wrong. With the GAMI injectors we're running on our 500B, you can pull the mixture back and basically watch as the 'fire' goes out. The engine stays real smooth. Steve ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:33 PM PST US From: "Tom Fisher" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question --> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" >Within a short period of time they would be clawing their way up a > mountain just below stall, and the next moment be screaming down a mountain > pulling all the power off. This is exactly what I do when on a SAR mission which is the main reason I waited for a Mr. RPM 680FLP, in fact this aircraft did magnetometer surveys for nineteen years. I also sometimes have to drop the gear and flaps so I can descend at 3000 ft/min, I found the aircraft to be very twitchy in the yaw axis when doing this almost as if the tail wanted to pass the nose. Tom F. C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Steven" > > > > > Cutting the mixture keeps a compression charge in the cylinders, > > cushioning > > the deceleration of the engine. > > >Wing Commander Gordon > > I wondered about that as a reason.... My Dad used to fly low-level > magnetometer surveys back in the sixties and early seventies, mostly in > 680E's. Within a short period of time they would be clawing their way up a > mountain just below stall, and the next moment be screaming down a mountain > pulling all the power off. If I have my facts right, they were going through > gearboxes pretty often until they started pulling the power off with mixture > rather than throttle, leaving cylinders charged..... The props were no > longer driving the engines so hard. I might have this wrong. > > With the GAMI injectors we're running on our 500B, you can pull the mixture > back and basically watch as the 'fire' goes out. The engine stays real > smooth. > > Steve > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:46 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hoover technique question --> Commander-List message posted by: I believe that my 500S has the switch that you are referring to. It is on top of the throttle quadrant as you say. It says something about unfeathering but as you can tell, I have never used it. I did my twin training in an Apache and only a check out in the Shrike. -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com In a message dated 27-Nov-05 18:12:10 Pacific Standard Time, YOURTCFG@aol.com writes: I am pretty certain there is no approval of accumulators on any air planes but the 500S, where it was a factory option. I gave several check-outs in a 500-U that had an unfeathering pump. The toggle switch was on the throttle quadrant and would be selected left or right. Much different than an accumulator but worked as well. Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:34 PM PST US From: "tylor.hall" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hoover technique question --> Commander-List message posted by: "tylor.hall" How do you check a geared engine to feather the prop? Last week, my boss and I flew the 421 from ABQ to Silver City, NM, about an hour flight to visit a job site. I had not flown a 421 but once before. My Boss said that it was a 50/50 chance if an engine quit, that the prop would not go into feather. On the run up, he only pulled the props back to see if they were working, but not to feather position. His reason was that at run up speed, that would put too much strain on the gearbox. Another friend flew is 421 out of Pagosa Springs, CO (7700ft elevation) and was climbing out over Wolf Creek Pass. About 14000', he had a cylinder blow out, smoke in the cockpit, and he pulled the power back to idle, but did not shut down. He made it back to the airport with out any problem. Is it standard procedure on a geared engine to try and keep it running because it may not feather which could be worse? I have flown the 680E before, but I never finished a check out and I do not remember anything about testing for feather. I have been told that in a 680E or 680F, to never do an in-flight engine shutdown, because it cannot be started again with the starter motor and they do not have accumulators. If you have an engine shut down, land to restart the engine. Is this true? Tylor Hall ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:23 PM PST US From: "Stan" Subject: Commander-List: Back issues of IFR, IFR Refresher, Light Plane Maintenance, Aviation Consumer, Aviation Safety --> Commander-List message posted by: "Stan" Hi Group, I have a modest collection of several different monthly publications tailored for the advanced private pilot. I have found them to be interesting and informative reading, and now would like to pass them on so that others can make use of them. The entire collection weighs about 24 pounds, and all I ask is for some help to defray shipping costs. Here's what I've got: IFR: March 2004 through December 2005 IFR Refresher: January 1995 through July 1997 (many missing, I have about 11 magazines total in this date range) plus February 1998 through November 2005 (I think I have all of them in this range, but there may be one or two missing in the earlier months) plus IFR Refresher's Ultimate Quiz Book Light Plane Maintenance: January 2004 through June 2005 The Aviation Consumer: March 2004 through September 2005 plus 2004 Buyer's Guide Aviation Safety: February 2004 through November 2005 Regards, Stan Perkins N681SP ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:14 PM PST US From: "Stan" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Commander in "Clear and Present Danger" --> Commander-List message posted by: "Stan" Hi Barry, Thanks for the info! I'll have to rent "Living Daylights" and check it out. Interestingly enough, when I saw "EC-EAQ" I thought it looked vaguely familiar. My dad's old 680W (s/n 1776-14) now carries the registration EC-EAG. (Close, but no cigar, I guess!) Regards, Stan -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Collman Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander in "Clear and Present Danger" --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" Hi Stan, It was indeed N825WD 'blown up' in the film, but thanks to some brilliant detective work (by Ricardo?) a few years ago, it was 'blown up' by transposing special effects over the aircraft's image. It has been registered to Barron Thomas Aviation Inc since February 1994. I got in touch with him a few years ago to see what became of N825WD, but, how can I put it ...............let's just say he wasn't very helpful! Another Commander, registered in Spain as EC-EAQ, appeared in the James Bond film "Living Daylights" (1987) landing in the opposite direction to Bond who was taking off in a C-123 or C-130 (I cannot remember!). Anyone know of any more? Very Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Commander-List: Commander in "Clear and Present Danger" | --> Commander-List message posted by: swperk@earthlink.net | | Hi folks, | | I was watching the movie "Clear and Present Danger" tonight and there is a scene where a bathtub nacelle Commander is blown up in a hangar. The registration number is N825WD and it comes back as being assigned to a 1960 Commander 720 AltiCruiser, serial number 850-13. | | Does anyone know the history of this plane (Sir Barry?) Is it still flying? | | On a related topic, what other movies, documentaries, etc. in public release have featured Twin Commanders? | | Regards, | Stan | | | | | | | ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:17 PM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com In a message dated 28-Nov-05 19:03:28 Pacific Standard Time, tylor.hall@sbcglobal.net writes: If you have an engine shut down, land to restart the engine. Is this true? Tylor, Great questions. A "feather check" can be performed on a geared engine. Same as a direct drive, run the RPMs up to 15-1800, pull the prop controls back to the feather detent, catch them before the RPMs go below 1200. Probably not the kindest thing to do to the gear box, but it is nice to know if the props will go towards feather. Also, the gear boxes are stressed to take torque from the engine to the prop, not the other way around. So anytime the RPMs are low and the crank is turning the prop, it's a good thing. I've had very poor results in restarting geared engines in flight. Cranking and cranking and cranking just unnerves me, so while I'd have each client go through the restart drill in the geared Commanders, 9 times out of 10 I'd take advantage of the situation and let them experience an actual One Engine Inoperative approach and landing. The IGSO-540 on the 680-F series does have an accumulator for unfeathering. I had one work once. Having said all that, I'm not sure why multi engine training places any emphasis on restarting a feathered engine. It's difficult, distracting, really takes two people to do, and what condition would make you shut one down and then decide to start it back up? I could see wanting to put a generator or hydraulic pump back on line ... but I think it's better to keep an engine running at "feather thrust" if it can without shaking or burning it's way off the airplane -- and if it can't, why are you trying to bring it back to life? Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:18 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commanders in the movies --> Commander-List message posted by: Hey Guys, If you like wacky horror films and you are a "bath-tub" fan you had better find a copy of the film "Arachnid". It has some great low-flying shots of a Mexican registered "bath-tub" XB-??? (I meant to find a copy and out exactly which Commander was flying...). Cheers Russell ---- Original message ---- >Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:37:07 -0000 >From: "Barry Collman" >Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commanders in the movies >To: > -- Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" & lt;barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk Hi Todd, Gosh, yes you're right! I had forgotten that one!! It was John Peroyea's 560A(HC) s/n 312, N13FT, now N124JP. It was a model though that they dropped into the sea from a chopper. John told me at the '95 Fly-In that he'd just had the Commander re- painted, and they burnt the new paint with the smoke canister! Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: todd@hindmarsh.us Subject: Commander-List: Commanders in the movies | -- Commander-List message posted by: todd@hindmarsh.us | | There was also a commander in the movie "Heaven's Prisoners". | | | | | | | ================ ================ ================ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:15 PM PST US From: YOURTCFG@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com In a message dated 11/28/2005 7:52:53 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, CloudCraft@aol.com writes: and if it can't, why are you trying to bring it back to life? Amen! The FAA is worried about just that. It seems that there have been several incidents where and engine has failed, been properly feathered and then the pilot tries to bring it back to like (see FGN, about two issues back). The pilots were not successful in a restart but did manage to get the propeller out of feather. On counterweighted propellers, an RPM of at least 700 rpm must be reached to allow the propeller to feather. Unable to reach this RPM, the propeller stayed in and the airplanes crashed. So, if it is feathered, land. jb ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:27 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: Commander-List: Continental Engines Manual --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" Jim, I scanned it in again and produced the entire manual in a PDF file. You can see it at http://www.teletuition.org/documents/Continental%20Engines/ and click on CompleteManual.pdf. TAKE NOTE, however, it is nearly 30 Megabyte in size, so unless you have a broadband connection, it might not be worth your while opening it. For those who would like to read it page-by-page directly off the website, click on ReadOnline.htm, select "Pages" on the menu at the left and page through the manual page by page. There are some startling pictures from page 14 onwards. Let me know if you managed. Thanks Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Addington" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fw: Fake FBI, CIA e-mails contain viruses > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington" > > If it is a lot of trouble don't do it but, if it is easy I would like to > down load the whole thing. > > Thanks > Jim Addington > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of nico css > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Fake FBI, CIA e-mails contain viruses > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" > > Jim, > The site was not developed to print the whole book. However, if you pick an > item from the menu on the left-hand side of the screen (either Home, Pages, > or Copyright), you will be able to navigate the site. The "Pages" option > will open a drop-down box in which you can select any of the 87 pages of the > book; as well as a zoom bar with which you can zoom into the photographs in > the book. If you wish to print the book, I guess you may try to print every > page. Tip: to page through the book faster, keep focus on the drop-down box > and use the up and down arrows to turn the pages. > > If you wish to print the whole book, let me know. I can add code to the site > to do that, and add an item in the menu bar on the left-hand side to start > the print process. > > Thanks for the feedback, Jim. > Nico > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Addington" > To: > Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fw: Fake FBI, CIA e-mails contain viruses > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington" > > > > > Nico, > > > > This one had a valid FBI phone number was what got me concerned, I don't > > know if this was just a copy cat or what because it did not have the > > attachment. When I told the real FBI lady about not getting an answer she > > said they had probably shut down answering that number. Thanks for the > > information. > > While I have you I tried to print the Cont. Motors book and when I went to > > file, print, and print view, it would only show the small window that was > > the page number. I did not try using the other print because of the number > > of pages and I wanted to see that it would print on the page properly. > > Any ideas? > > > > Jim Addington > > N444BD > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of nico css > > To: commander-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Fake FBI, CIA e-mails contain viruses > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" > > > > > > > Fake FBI, CIA e-mails contain viruses > > > > > > The FBI warned Internet users about a scam involving e-mails appearing to > > come from the FBI, with a computer virus attached. > > > > "These scam e-mails tell the recipients that their Internet use has been > > monitored by the FBI and that they have accessed illegal websites," the > law > > enforcement agency said in a statement. > > > > > > "The e-mails then direct recipients to open an attachment and answer > > questions." > > > > The FBI statement said recipients of this or similar messages "should know > > that the FBI does not engage in the practice of sending unsolicited > e-mails > > to the public in this manner." > > > > The messages appear to be sent from an e-mail address such as > mailAfbi.gov, > > postAfbi.gov, adminAfbi.gov or a similar address. > > > > The Internet security firm Sophos said similar e-mails may appear to come > > from the Central Intelligence Agency, but it noted that both contain a > > strain of the Sober virus that has been spreading worldwide. > > > > In a four-hour period Tuesday, the worm "has accounted for over 61 percent > > of all viruses reported to Sophos, making it currently the most prevalent > > virus spreading across the world." > > > > > >