---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 11/29/05: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:14 AM - Hey Guys... (Matt Dralle) 2. 06:03 AM - UK Commanders (Barry Collman) 3. 07:08 AM - Re: UK Commanders (CloudCraft@aol.com) 4. 07:16 AM - Re: Hoover technique question (Moe) 5. 07:39 AM - Re: Hoover technique question (Moe) 6. 07:40 AM - Re: Hoover technique question (MASON CHEVAILLIER) 7. 08:32 AM - Re: Hoover technique question (CloudCraft@aol.com) 8. 08:35 AM - Re: UK Commanders (Barry Collman) 9. 09:49 AM - Re: Hoover technique question (Moe) 10. 10:25 AM - Re: Hoover technique question (CloudCraft@aol.com) 11. 10:33 AM - Re: Hoover technique question (Tom Fisher) 12. 11:06 AM - Re: UK Commanders (nico css) 13. 11:23 AM - Re: Hoover technique question (Moe) 14. 12:51 PM - Fw: Drawing of a Woman (nico css) 15. 03:26 PM - Re: Fw: Drawing of a Woman (Bill Bow) 16. 04:08 PM - Re: Fw: Drawing of a Woman (Moe) 17. 04:16 PM - Re: Fw: Drawing of a Woman (John Vormbaum) 18. 05:40 PM - Re: Fw: Drawing of a Woman (nico css) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:20 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Commander-List: Hey Guys... --> Commander-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Hey guys, wow, I can't believe all the really nice comments I've been getting about how much you appreciate and enjoy the Lists. I really appreciate your positive feedback and support. I've included below a bunch more of the awesome feedback I've received in the last week or so. Please read over some of these great comments. It is really quite amazing... There are just a couple more days left during this year's Fund Raiser and your chance to get one of the really great gifts. If you been putting off making a Contribution, now's your chance to support these Lists *and* pinch an awesome free gift too! Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution already. It is much appreciated! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Best regards, Matt Dralle List Admininstrator ----------------------- Lister Comments ----------------------- The Archives Search Engine is usually the first place I turn to when I run into a building question or problem I need to resolve. Christopher H. I look forward so much to reading the list digest every night that my wife thinks I'm getting obsessed. Thomas S. It's also the way I start my day. A cup of coffee and I'm at my computer to read the Lists. I look forward to it. I've learned so much. James B. It is the best way to stay in contact with other builders and flyers. Charles G. Very good info and very interesting people. Rodney B. The List is a great resource for me while building. Brice B. Great stuff - keep it going. Mark H. This list is just amazing! Reginald D. Very grateful for he RV List. John S. I would have NEVER attempted to build a Piet if I had not found this List. Rob B. It is helpful as well as entertaining. David P. ...invaluable to me in my decision to purchase a CJ-6. Valerie W. A great tool and service to the Aviation Community. William C. While I haven't learned enough to contribute to other very often, I have learned enough to avoid some mistakes in building my kit. Cl M. Enjoy this Zenith List. First thing upon waking. Bob W. 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These Lists are my main resource and means of communicating with other builders. Brian A. I use the List everyday! I'd feel guilty all year if I didn't contribute. Brian U. It has helped me be a better builder and put me in touch with some real fine people. Bruce B. A great list!!! Rupert T. ...invaluable help to many builders. Jonathan R. Great list, I'm still trying to decide, and the List provides great information. Maarten V. Your web sites provide me with an important connection to invaluable technical resources plus feedback and motivation to continue the build process. Douglas D. A great resource and contribution to safety. Donald K. A great service. Richard R. It has been a source for a lot of useful information over the many years I have been on the list. Jerry S. I really enjoy the positive spirit and exchange via your List. Richard R. The List has been a great help on several occasions... Harry C. Great List! Reginald D. The knowledge and support that I have received from your members was worth more that my contribution. Valerie W. It has also been a source of great entertainment at times. Jerry S. ...always a source of amusement. Harry C. I'm still under construction and the list has helped me avoid many problems. Rupert T. ----------------------- Lister Comments ----------------------- Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:57 AM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Commander-List: UK Commanders --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" Hi Guys, Just got back from Fairoaks Airport, where the UK Factory Authorised Service Center, Mann Aviation are based. N425RR, 690A-11259, was in evidence. Also VP-BMZ, 690D-15033, was there. Registered to Aviatica Trading Co Ltd., Hamilton, Bermuda, this is UK-based and 'really' owned by The Duke of Beaufort, on whose Estate the Badminton Horse Trials are held. But I had gone down to Fairoaks to see another newly-based UK Commander, N51WF, a 690C s/n 11684. This is registered to a Trustee on behalf of MBH Services Ltd., of Matching, Essex, but the 'real' owner is Lord Henry Selman. So, they really make "Sir" Barry Collman look pretty small beer - their Titles are real! Best Regards, Barry ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:41 AM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: UK Commanders --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com In a message dated 29-Nov-05 06:04:37 Pacific Standard Time, barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes: So, they really make "Sir" Barry Collman look pretty small beer >> So, Sir Barry, are you saying you need a promotion? What title would you suggest? Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:08 AM PST US From: "Moe" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" Tylor, When I first purchased N680RR (the 680F(p) that you flew back to Colorado Springs with me) the insurance company required 50 hours of dual. My instructor was a real stickler for single engine flying, and we probably flew about 10 hours single engine. The engines were so nearly dead that I thought that we could not hurt them anymore (wrong!). We never flew under 3,000 feet and always over the ocean. Only one time did we have an extremely hard time getting the shut down engine to start. It is very hard on the starters as you are turning a feathered propeller against the engine and wind. As the engine begins to start it does not have enough power to turn the feathered prop., so you have to keep using the starter while the cylinders are hitting until the prop is partially out of feather and the engine is developing enough power to turn the prop. As a hint, once the cylinders start firing do not release the starter knob until the RPM is about 1,200 or so. After the restart keep the cowl flaps closed and run the engine at idle until the oil and cyl. head temperatures come up. This takes quite a while as a lot of cold air is still blowing over the engine. When running up for the first flight of the day, I always bring both engines up to 2,200RPM and feather both back to 1,500 RPM three times. Thereafter, just one feather at run-up to be sure that everything is working. It would be interesting to see why your boss thanks that you stand only a 50/50 chance of feathering the engine. This has never been a problem in my experience. Evan when the bolts broke that connect the engine to the gear box (on takeoff at HHR) the engine feathered. Regards, Moe Mills N680RR 680F(p) ----- Original Message ----- From: "tylor.hall" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hoover technique question > --> Commander-List message posted by: "tylor.hall" > > How do you check a geared engine to feather the prop? > Last week, my boss and I flew the 421 from ABQ to Silver City, NM, about an > hour flight to visit a job site. I had not flown a 421 but once before. My > Boss said that it was a 50/50 chance if an engine quit, that the prop would > not go into feather. On the run up, he only pulled the props back to see if > they were working, but not to feather position. His reason was that at run > up speed, that would put too much strain on the gearbox. > Another friend flew is 421 out of Pagosa Springs, CO (7700ft elevation) and > was climbing out over Wolf Creek Pass. About 14000', he had a cylinder blow > out, smoke in the cockpit, and he pulled the power back to idle, but did not > shut down. He made it back to the airport with out any problem. Is it > standard procedure on a geared engine to try and keep it running because it > may not feather which could be worse? > I have flown the 680E before, but I never finished a check out and I do not > remember anything about testing for feather. > I have been told that in a 680E or 680F, to never do an in-flight engine > shutdown, because it cannot be started again with the starter motor and they > do not have accumulators. If you have an engine shut down, land to restart > the engine. Is this true? > > Tylor Hall > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:21 AM PST US From: "Moe" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" Wing Commander Gordon, You are entirely correct. Only one instance comes to mind where restarting should be done. If you have a fuel starvation problem (or other unexplained failure) on takeoff in IFR conditions, your best chance might be to feather the engine immediately and try for a restart after gaining some altitude. Along time ago one engine started running a LITTLE rough on take-off in IFR conditions. By the time ATC got me back to the airport the flight was about 60 miles at altitudes up to 4,000 feet. Had one engine been shut down, the wise thing might have been to try for a restart, rather than a single engine IFR non precision approach. Given the choice of hitting the fuel truck or going around in IFR conditions with one engine shut down which should one choose? Regards, Moe ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question > --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com > > In a message dated 28-Nov-05 19:03:28 Pacific Standard Time, > tylor.hall@sbcglobal.net writes: > If you have an engine shut down, land to restart > the engine. Is this true? > Tylor, > > Great questions. > > A "feather check" can be performed on a geared engine. Same as a direct > drive, run the RPMs up to 15-1800, pull the prop controls back to the feather > detent, catch them before the RPMs go below 1200. > > Probably not the kindest thing to do to the gear box, but it is nice to know > if the props will go towards feather. Also, the gear boxes are stressed to > take torque from the engine to the prop, not the other way around. So anytime > the RPMs are low and the crank is turning the prop, it's a good thing. > > I've had very poor results in restarting geared engines in flight. Cranking > and cranking and cranking just unnerves me, so while I'd have each client go > through the restart drill in the geared Commanders, 9 times out of 10 I'd take > advantage of the situation and let them experience an actual One Engine > Inoperative approach and landing. > > The IGSO-540 on the 680-F series does have an accumulator for unfeathering. > I had one work once. > > Having said all that, I'm not sure why multi engine training places any > emphasis on restarting a feathered engine. It's difficult, distracting, really > takes two people to do, and what condition would make you shut one down and then > decide to start it back up? > > I could see wanting to put a generator or hydraulic pump back on line ... but > I think it's better to keep an engine running at "feather thrust" if it can > without shaking or burning it's way off the airplane -- and if it can't, why > are you trying to bring it back to life? > > Wing Commander Gordon > > Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:10 AM PST US From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question --> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" TH & MM, ON 2001M FIRST START OF THE DAY I GET ENGINES UP TO TEMPS ( IN GREEN) AND DO THE RUN UP PROCEDURE, I DO REVERSE THE PROCESS OF POH, I TAKE IT TO 2100 TO 2200 RPM S AND CHECK THE MAGS, THIS REALLY WARMS UP THE OIL. THEN I PULL IT BACK TO 1500 RPM S AND DO DO TWO SHORT DIPS OF 100 TO 200 RPM S ON PROPS TOWARD FEATHER SO AS NOT TO PUT TOO MUCH INITIAL PRESSURE ON SEALS AND ANY RESIDUAL COOL OIL IN PROPS. THEN I DO A THIRD DROP OF 400 TO 500 RPM S TO FLUSH GOOD WARM/HOT OIL INTO PROPS. AS RPM S SETTLE BACK TO 1500 RPM S I THEN DECREASE TO 1000 TO 1200 RPM S AND PREPARE FOR TAKEOFF. MASON 680Fp/IO720 2001M ----- Original Message ----- From: Moe To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 9:00 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" > Tylor, When I first purchased N680RR (the 680F(p) that you flew back to Colorado Springs with me) the insurance company required 50 hours of dual. My instructor was a real stickler for single engine flying, and we probably flew about 10 hours single engine. The engines were so nearly dead that I thought that we could not hurt them anymore (wrong!). We never flew under 3,000 feet and always over the ocean. Only one time did we have an extremely hard time getting the shut down engine to start. It is very hard on the starters as you are turning a feathered propeller against the engine and wind. As the engine begins to start it does not have enough power to turn the feathered prop., so you have to keep using the starter while the cylinders are hitting until the prop is partially out of feather and the engine is developing enough power to turn the prop. As a hint, once the cylinders start firing do not release the starter knob until the RPM is about 1,200 or so. After the restart keep the cowl flaps closed and run the engine at idle until the oil and cyl. head temperatures come up. This takes quite a while as a lot of cold air is still blowing over the engine. When running up for the first flight of the day, I always bring both engines up to 2,200RPM and feather both back to 1,500 RPM three times. Thereafter, just one feather at run-up to be sure that everything is working. It would be interesting to see why your boss thanks that you stand only a 50/50 chance of feathering the engine. This has never been a problem in my experience. Evan when the bolts broke that connect the engine to the gear box (on takeoff at HHR) the engine feathered. Regards, Moe Mills N680RR 680F(p) ----- Original Message ----- From: "tylor.hall" > To: > Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hoover technique question > --> Commander-List message posted by: "tylor.hall" > > > How do you check a geared engine to feather the prop? > Last week, my boss and I flew the 421 from ABQ to Silver City, NM, about an > hour flight to visit a job site. I had not flown a 421 but once before. My > Boss said that it was a 50/50 chance if an engine quit, that the prop would > not go into feather. On the run up, he only pulled the props back to see if > they were working, but not to feather position. His reason was that at run > up speed, that would put too much strain on the gearbox. > Another friend flew is 421 out of Pagosa Springs, CO (7700ft elevation) and > was climbing out over Wolf Creek Pass. About 14000', he had a cylinder blow > out, smoke in the cockpit, and he pulled the power back to idle, but did not > shut down. He made it back to the airport with out any problem. Is it > standard procedure on a geared engine to try and keep it running because it > may not feather which could be worse? > I have flown the 680E before, but I never finished a check out and I do not > remember anything about testing for feather. > I have been told that in a 680E or 680F, to never do an in-flight engine > shutdown, because it cannot be started again with the starter motor and they > do not have accumulators. If you have an engine shut down, land to restart > the engine. Is this true? > > Tylor Hall > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:00 AM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com In a message dated 29-Nov-05 07:40:05 Pacific Standard Time, moe@rosspistons.com writes: Given the choice of hitting the fuel truck or going around in IFR conditions with one engine shut down which should one choose? >>> Those are my only choices? Hitting the fuel truck is a 100% disaster. I guess I'd opt for the OEI missed approach: Hope I could make TERPS climb gradients for the airport/missed approach procedure = 80% disaster Hope I could accurately fly & navigate the missed approach track = 10% disaster Keeping directional control in a Commander = 0% disaster. What are we up to? Only 90% disaster relative to hitting the fuel truck. I'll take it! Now if there was just a CAT-II ILS to a long runway with Morris Kernick waiting with a tug ... now that would be easy. I might do that with both engines feathered. But Moe, you do bring up the fact that there are a (very)few legitimate times to shut down and restart. The 680F(P) guys need to consider an engine running worse than rough at high altitude and finding out it was arcing in the ignition system yet the engine could run quite well at lower altitudes. Such was the case on a MR RPM conversion once. Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:13 AM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: UK Commanders --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" Hi Wing Commander! Well, I guess I'm honoured enough to have acquired the "Sir" tag, so guess that'll do just fine!! Sincere Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Commander-List: UK Commanders | --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com | | In a message dated 29-Nov-05 06:04:37 Pacific Standard Time, | barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes: | So, they really make "Sir" Barry Collman look pretty small beer | >> | | So, Sir Barry, are you saying you need a promotion? What title would you | suggest? | | Wing Commander Gordon | | Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. | | | | | | | ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:16 AM PST US From: "Moe" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" My understanding that since the 680F(p) with the IGSO 540B1A engines has the mag system that has 12 ignition coils per engine, there should be no difference between high and low altitude propensity to arc in the mags up to about 40,000 feet. Have I been misinformed? Moe ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question > --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com > > In a message dated 29-Nov-05 07:40:05 Pacific Standard Time, > moe@rosspistons.com writes: > Given the choice of hitting the fuel truck or going around in IFR conditions > with one engine shut down which should one choose? > >>> > > Those are my only choices? > > Hitting the fuel truck is a 100% disaster. > > I guess I'd opt for the OEI missed approach: > > Hope I could make TERPS climb gradients for the airport/missed approach > procedure = 80% disaster > > Hope I could accurately fly & navigate the missed approach track = 10% > disaster > > Keeping directional control in a Commander = 0% disaster. > > What are we up to? Only 90% disaster relative to hitting the fuel truck. > I'll take it! > > Now if there was just a CAT-II ILS to a long runway with Morris Kernick > waiting with a tug ... now that would be easy. I might do that with both engines > feathered. > > But Moe, you do bring up the fact that there are a (very)few legitimate times > to shut down and restart. The 680F(P) guys need to consider an engine > running worse than rough at high altitude and finding out it was arcing in the > ignition system yet the engine could run quite well at lower altitudes. Such was > the case on a MR RPM conversion once. > > Wing Commander Gordon > > > Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:08 AM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com In a message dated 29-Nov-05 09:50:15 Pacific Standard Time, moe@rosspistons.com writes: My understanding that since the 680F(p) with the IGSO 540B1A engines has the mag system that has 12 ignition coils per engine, there should be no difference between high and low altitude propensity to arc in the mags up to about 40,000 feet. Have I been misinformed? You are correct, Sir! And, several IGSO-540 operators have removed the "local" coils if they anticipate operating at lower altitudes. e.g. AC-680-FLs operated on freight runs. I can't remember the dash letter change that goes on the engine with that change, but it's an option. The MR RPMs have pressurized mags and if those loose pressure, they'll arc internally. Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:21 AM PST US From: "Tom Fisher" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question --> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" Gentlemen, I need to replace about 6 overhead toggle switches in the 680FLP, (the plastic ones). Any suggestions? Tom F. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Moe" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" > > My understanding that since the 680F(p) with the IGSO 540B1A engines has the > mag system that has 12 ignition coils per engine, there should be no > difference between high and low altitude propensity to arc in the mags up to > about 40,000 feet. Have I been misinformed? > > Moe > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com > > > > In a message dated 29-Nov-05 07:40:05 Pacific Standard Time, > > moe@rosspistons.com writes: > > Given the choice of hitting the fuel truck or going around in IFR > conditions > > with one engine shut down which should one choose? > > >>> > > > > Those are my only choices? > > > > Hitting the fuel truck is a 100% disaster. > > > > I guess I'd opt for the OEI missed approach: > > > > Hope I could make TERPS climb gradients for the airport/missed approach > > procedure = 80% disaster > > > > Hope I could accurately fly & navigate the missed approach track = 10% > > disaster > > > > Keeping directional control in a Commander = 0% disaster. > > > > What are we up to? Only 90% disaster relative to hitting the fuel truck. > > I'll take it! > > > > Now if there was just a CAT-II ILS to a long runway with Morris Kernick > > waiting with a tug ... now that would be easy. I might do that with both > engines > > feathered. > > > > But Moe, you do bring up the fact that there are a (very)few legitimate > times > > to shut down and restart. The 680F(P) guys need to consider an engine > > running worse than rough at high altitude and finding out it was arcing in > the > > ignition system yet the engine could run quite well at lower altitudes. > Such was > > the case on a MR RPM conversion once. > > > > Wing Commander Gordon > > > > > > Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:45 AM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: Re: Commander-List: UK Commanders --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" We have highnesses and dukes and viceroys and whatevers left over. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: UK Commanders > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" > > Hi Wing Commander! > > Well, I guess I'm honoured enough to have acquired the "Sir" tag, so guess > that'll do just fine!! > > Sincere Best Regards, > Barry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: Commander-List: UK Commanders > > you > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:37 AM PST US From: "Moe" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" Tom, I think that Jack Chappell has them. Phone 951.371.7531. Moe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Fisher" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" > > Gentlemen, > > I need to replace about 6 overhead toggle switches in the 680FLP, (the > plastic ones). > Any suggestions? > > Tom F. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Moe" > To: > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" > > > > My understanding that since the 680F(p) with the IGSO 540B1A engines has > the > > mag system that has 12 ignition coils per engine, there should be no > > difference between high and low altitude propensity to arc in the mags up > to > > about 40,000 feet. Have I been misinformed? > > > > Moe > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com > > > > > > In a message dated 29-Nov-05 07:40:05 Pacific Standard Time, > > > moe@rosspistons.com writes: > > > Given the choice of hitting the fuel truck or going around in IFR > > conditions > > > with one engine shut down which should one choose? > > > >>> > > > > > > Those are my only choices? > > > > > > Hitting the fuel truck is a 100% disaster. > > > > > > I guess I'd opt for the OEI missed approach: > > > > > > Hope I could make TERPS climb gradients for the airport/missed approach > > > procedure = 80% disaster > > > > > > Hope I could accurately fly & navigate the missed approach track 10% > > > disaster > > > > > > Keeping directional control in a Commander = 0% disaster. > > > > > > What are we up to? Only 90% disaster relative to hitting the fuel > truck. > > > I'll take it! > > > > > > Now if there was just a CAT-II ILS to a long runway with Morris Kernick > > > waiting with a tug ... now that would be easy. I might do that with > both > > engines > > > feathered. > > > > > > But Moe, you do bring up the fact that there are a (very)few legitimate > > times > > > to shut down and restart. The 680F(P) guys need to consider an engine > > > running worse than rough at high altitude and finding out it was arcing > in > > the > > > ignition system yet the engine could run quite well at lower altitudes. > > Such was > > > the case on a MR RPM conversion once. > > > > > > Wing Commander Gordon > > > > > > > > > Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:14 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Drawing of a Woman --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" This is truly amazing. http://fcmx.net/vec/get.swf?i003702 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:58 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fw: Drawing of a Woman --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" Well I can't say I was amazed. I only got a frame and some little squares in the middle of the screen. I couldn't get it to do anything. bilbo -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Drawing of a Woman --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" This is truly amazing. http://fcmx.net/vec/get.swf?i003702 _- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:39 PM PST US From: "Moe" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Drawing of a Woman --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" Me too.... Moe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bow" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fw: Drawing of a Woman > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" > > Well I can't say I was amazed. I only got a frame and some little squares > in the middle of the screen. I couldn't get it to do anything. > > bilbo > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Drawing of a Woman > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" > > This is truly amazing. > > http://fcmx.net/vec/get.swf?i003702 > > > _- > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:48 PM PST US From: "John Vormbaum" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Drawing of a Woman --> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" Same with me, Bilbo... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bow" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fw: Drawing of a Woman > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" > > Well I can't say I was amazed. I only got a frame and some little squares > in the middle of the screen. I couldn't get it to do anything. > > bilbo > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Drawing of a Woman > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" > > This is truly amazing. > > http://fcmx.net/vec/get.swf?i003702 > > > _- > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:22 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Drawing of a Woman --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" The little squares show that it is loading. Their server appears to be overloaded a bit. I tried it again and the squares stayed there for quite a while too. They should disappear in about 10-15 seconds. Try again later. It shows an artist sketching a woman and the only thing you see are the lines appearing. It takes about a minute to complete. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bow" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fw: Drawing of a Woman > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" > > Well I can't say I was amazed. I only got a frame and some little squares > in the middle of the screen. I couldn't get it to do anything. > > bilbo > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Drawing of a Woman > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" > > This is truly amazing. > > http://fcmx.net/vec/get.swf?i003702 > > > _- > >