Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:06 AM - FW: FW: Hoover technique question (Robert Steele)
2. 07:54 AM - Re: FW: FW: Hoover technique question (RRamm52@cs.com)
3. 07:57 AM - Re: FW: FW: Hoover technique question (BertBerry1@aol.com)
4. 08:04 AM - Fw: This is amazing (css nico)
5. 08:15 AM - Re: Fw: This is amazing (Tom Fisher)
6. 09:33 AM - Re: FW: FW: Hoover technique question (CloudCraft@aol.com)
7. 09:34 AM - Re: Hoover technique question (swperk@earthlink.net)
8. 09:51 AM - Re: Hoover technique question (CloudCraft@aol.com)
9. 10:06 AM - Re: Hoover technique question (Barry Collman)
10. 10:51 AM - Fw: 500A (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
11. 05:19 PM - Re: 520 Aero Commander Pilot Report June 1968 (css nico)
12. 05:27 PM - Fw: This is amazing (css nico)
13. 05:49 PM - T'was the Night Before Christmas - Sports Planes Style (Jim Pellien)
14. 08:21 PM - Fw: This is amazing (3rd try) (css nico)
15. 09:35 PM - Re: FW: FW: Hoover technique question (BillLeff1@aol.com)
16. 09:52 PM - Re: Hoover technique question (BillLeff1@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Hoover technique question |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Robert Steele" <bob.steele@kzf.com>
Commander-Land
A while back I forwarded some of the commander-list's e-mails to Bill Leff.
Bill, as some of you know, has a lot of experience with Commanders. He was
a good friend and protege of Dick Wartinger's. (Bill knew Dick since he was
12 or 13.) Bill is a pilot's pilot, a former TWA MD-80 instructor, and he
has a couple of aerobatic acts, one of which is doing aerobatics at night
with fireworks shooting from the wings of his plane (a T-6).
Anyway I sent the "Hoover Technique Question" to Bill and this was his
answer.
I thought Bill's responses/insights were very informative (less rudder input
to reduce drag and structural stress???). I also thought the question at
the end of Bill's e-mail was interesting.
Hope you all have a great Christmas and a prosperous New Year!
Bob Steele,
Proud (Unsuspecting) Recipient of the TCFG 2005 Golden Rudder Award
(and looking forward to passing it on at the 2006 DaytonFly-In)
Alan Kucheck - you should come to this one too!
-----Original Message-----
From: BillLeff@aol.com [mailto:BillLeff@aol.com]
Subject: Re: FW: Commander-List: Hoover technique question
Bob Hoover probably shut his engines down using that procedure to reduce the
drag incurred during that procedure. Remember his routine was an energy
management program. everything he did was done to reduce drag. Watch how
much control input he used during rolls. He did not use as much rudder as
you would think would be necessary. That reduced drag by not displacing the
rudder as much as would be needed to make a perfectly coordinated roll. It
was a compromise to reduce structural loads and reduce drag.
Bob never had cylinder problems because the head temps on a Shrike normally
don't get hot enough to cause thermal shock. So, shutting them down from
full power and restarting them to full power just was not a problem as far
as the cylinders go. The shut down and start up was so fast it probably
never bothered the counterweights. Geared engine airplanes would not stand
up well to this treatment. In defense of geared engines, most of the older
great aerobatic pilots like Art Sholl and Ed Maler. used geared Lycomings in
their aerobatic aircraft. They are very strong when operated properly.
His plane was absolutely stock except for the following:
It had an additional accumulator to prevent the nose wheel from extending
when both engines were shut down. Remember, the aux hydraulic pump does
nothing for the gear>
The unfeathering pumps normally had a single switch that could operate
either the left or right pumps individually. On Bobs Plane he had micro
switches that, when armed, would turn on the pump on its respective engine
when the prop control is moved to the full forward position.
There was nothing done to the mag system.
The rest was just a great pilot and a great airplane.
By the way, I did work on both of his airplanes. The Shrike and the "Hoover
Hornet".
Anybody know why a Shrike is called a Shrike?
Bill Leff
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
--> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com
Nice post, Bob, we appreciate it.
Thanks, Rob Munro
In a message dated 12/22/2005 7:09:00 AM Central Standard Time,
bob.steele@kzf.com writes:
>
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Robert Steele" <bob.steele@kzf.com>
>
> Commander-Land
>
> A while back I forwarded some of the commander-list's e-mails to Bill Leff.
> Bill, as some of you know, has a lot of experience with Commanders. He was
> a good friend and protege of Dick Wartinger's. (Bill knew Dick since he was
> 12 or 13.) Bill is a pilot's pilot, a former TWA MD-80 instructor, and he
> has a couple of aerobatic acts, one of which is doing aerobatics at night
> with fireworks shooting from the wings of his plane (a T-6).
>
> Anyway I sent the "Hoover Technique Question" to Bill and this was his
> answer.
>
> I thought Bill's responses/insights were very informative (less rudder input
> to reduce drag and structural stress???). I also thought the question at
> the end of Bill's e-mail was interesting.
>
> Hope you all have a great Christmas and a prosperous New Year!
>
> Bob Steele,
> Proud (Unsuspecting) Recipient of the TCFG 2005 Golden Rudder Award
> (and looking forward to passing it on at the 2006 DaytonFly-In)
> Alan Kucheck - you should come to this one too!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BillLeff@aol.com [mailto:BillLeff@aol.com]
> To: bob.steele@kzf.com
> Subject: Re: FW: Commander-List: Hoover technique question
>
>
> Bob Hoover probably shut his engines down using that procedure to reduce the
> drag incurred during that procedure. Remember his routine was an energy
> management program. everything he did was done to reduce drag. Watch how
> much control input he used during rolls. He did not use as much rudder as
> you would think would be necessary. That reduced drag by not displacing the
> rudder as much as would be needed to make a perfectly coordinated roll. It
> was a compromise to reduce structural loads and reduce drag.
>
> Bob never had cylinder problems because the head temps on a Shrike normally
> don't get hot enough to cause thermal shock. So, shutting them down from
> full power and restarting them to full power just was not a problem as far
> as the cylinders go. The shut down and start up was so fast it probably
> never bothered the counterweights. Geared engine airplanes would not stand
> up well to this treatment. In defense of geared engines, most of the older
> great aerobatic pilots like Art Sholl and Ed Maler. used geared Lycomings in
> their aerobatic aircraft. They are very strong when operated properly.
>
> His plane was absolutely stock except for the following:
>
> It had an additional accumulator to prevent the nose wheel from extending
> when both engines were shut down. Remember, the aux hydraulic pump does
> nothing for the gear>
>
> The unfeathering pumps normally had a single switch that could operate
> either the left or right pumps individually. On Bobs Plane he had micro
> switches that, when armed, would turn on the pump on its respective engine
> when the prop control is moved to the full forward position.
>
> There was nothing done to the mag system.
>
> The rest was just a great pilot and a great airplane.
>
> By the way, I did work on both of his airplanes. The Shrike and the "Hoover
> Hornet".
>
> Anybody know why a Shrike is called a Shrike?
>
> Bill Leff
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
--> Commander-List message posted by: BertBerry1@aol.com
I have no idea why they called it a Shrike, but I'm very interested to know.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Fw: This is amazing |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Now, that's what I call progress in the right direction. Flying one day in a projected,
virtual cockpit?
Look closely n' guess what they could be...
PENS WITH HIDDEN CAMS?????
Any other wild guesses now?
No clue?
You have just now
looked into the future.
You have seen something that would replace your PC in
the near future.
LOOK AT THIS...
In the revolution of miniature of computers, the scientists
are ahead with Bluetooth technology... See the forthcoming
computers within our pockets ..
This pen "sort of instrument"
produces both the monitor as well
as the keyboard on flat surfaces from where you can just
carry out the normal operations you do on your desktop.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: This is amazing |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
I must be missing something, were there meant to be links in this post?
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Fw: This is amazing
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico"
<nico@cybersuperstore.com>
>
> Now, that's what I call progress in the right direction. Flying one day in
a projected, virtual cockpit?
>
>
> Look closely n' guess what they could be...
>
>
> PENS WITH HIDDEN CAMS?????
>
>
> Any other wild guesses now?
>
> No clue?
>
> You have just now
>
> looked into the future.
>
> You have seen something that would replace your PC in
>
> the near future.
>
>
> LOOK AT THIS...
>
>
> In the revolution of miniature of computers, the
scientists
>
> are ahead with Bluetooth technology... See the
forthcoming
>
> computers within our pockets ..
>
>
> This pen "sort of instrument"
>
> produces both the monitor as well
>
> as the keyboard on flat surfaces from where you can just
>
> carry out the normal operations you do on your desktop.
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
In a message dated 22-Dec-05 05:06:46 Pacific Standard Time,
bob.steele@kzf.com writes:
Anybody know why a Shrike is called a Shrike?
A Shrike is a bird of prey -- but it begs the question why this one model got
a product name (other than the "Grand Commander") when the rest of the
product line did not.
OK, Bill, what's the scoop?
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
--> Commander-List message posted by: swperk@earthlink.net
The shrike (bird) is somewhat unusual in that it preys on other birds. If I remember
correctly, Rockwell wanted their Shrike to prey on the competition (other
"birds"). And since at least some Commanders were named after real birds (e.g.
Hawk, Courser), this also fit with their naming convention.
Stan
N681SP
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
In a message dated 22-Dec-05 09:35:24 Pacific Standard Time,
swperk@earthlink.net writes:
And since at least some Commanders were named after real birds (e.g. Hawk,
Courser), this also fit with their naming convention.
I forgot about those! Good call, Stan.
When compared to other product lines the Commanders were fairly devoid of
spiffy marketing names drawn from birds, aboriginal tools and tribes, royalty,
etc.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Along with the 'Shrike', 'Courser' and 'Hawk' on the Twin Commanders, some of
the single-engined Commanders also got bird names.
(Remember the 'Tough Bird' advertising?).
These included Sparrow, Quail, Thrush & Snipe for the 'Ag' types and Darter and
Lark for the Cessna 150 look-a-like.
Those were the days!
Barry C (UK)
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hoover technique question
| --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
|
| In a message dated 22-Dec-05 09:35:24 Pacific Standard Time,
| swperk@earthlink.net writes:
| And since at least some Commanders were named after real birds (e.g. Hawk,
| Courser), this also fit with their naming convention.
| I forgot about those! Good call, Stan.
|
| When compared to other product lines the Commanders were fairly devoid of
| spiffy marketing names drawn from birds, aboriginal tools and tribes, royalty,
| etc.
|
| Wing Commander Gordon
|
| Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Message 10
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|
--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
From: Craig Lundborg <dltafolk@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 500A
--0-1852664860-1135272973=:59838
Hi Folks,
Well several years and a lot of having to fly single engine planes has finally
brought me to putting a down payment on a 500A.
Does anyone have any info besides registration on this bird...1260B,
500A 1121-57
I sincerely hope it is positive!
Craig Lundborg
dltafolk@sbcglobal.net
--0-1852664860-1135272973=:59838
Hi Folks, Well several years and a lot of having to fly single engine planes
has finally brought me to putting a down payment on a 500A. Does anyone have
any info besides registration on this bird...1260B, 500A 1121-57 I sincerely
hope it is positive! Craig Lundborg dltafolk@sbcglobal.net
--0-1852664860-1135272973=:59838--
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 520 Aero Commander Pilot Report June 1968 |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Bert,
I am holding off on posting this to my webserver since I should receive the
logon privileges for the Commander website imminently. I will then transfer
all the postings to their proper location.
In future, you may still send the stuff to me from where I will take care of
it.
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <BertBerry1@aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: 520 Aero Commander Pilot Report June 1968
> --> Commander-List message posted by: BertBerry1@aol.com
>
> I just sent the June 1968 Pilot Report on the 520, hope you all enjoy. And
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Years to you all.
>
> Bert
>
>
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Fw: This is amazing |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Sorry, folks. I forgot that the Commander list strips off all images. You
may look at this thing at
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/space/RE_%20Fw_%20This%20is%20amazing.h
tm
Thanks
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: This is amazing
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher"
<tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
>
> I must be missing something, were there meant to be links in this post?
> Tom F.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
> To: "art la combe" <10sne1@sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Commander-List: Fw: This is amazing
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico"
> <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
> >
> > Now, that's what I call progress in the right direction. Flying one day
in
> a projected, virtual cockpit?
> >
> >
> > Look closely n' guess what they could be...
> >
> >
> > PENS WITH HIDDEN CAMS?????
> >
> >
> > Any other wild guesses now?
> >
> > No clue?
> >
> > You have just now
> >
> > looked into the future.
> >
> > You have seen something that would replace your PC in
> >
> > the near future.
> >
> >
> > LOOK AT THIS...
> >
> >
> > In the revolution of miniature of computers, the
> scientists
> >
> > are ahead with Bluetooth technology... See the
> forthcoming
> >
> > computers within our pockets ..
> >
> >
> > This pen "sort of instrument"
> >
> > produces both the monitor as well
> >
> > as the keyboard on flat surfaces from where you can
just
> >
> > carry out the normal operations you do on your
desktop.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | T'was the Night Before Christmas - Sports Planes Style |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" <jim@pellien.com>
'Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the forum
not an EMAIL was posted, not even a note.
The stockings were hung by the laptop with care,
in hopes that Tom P. soon would be there.
The pilots were nestled all snug in their beds,
while visions of SLSA's danced in their heads.
The aircraft in their hangars, and I in my cap,
had just settled our brains for a long winter's nap.
When out on the tarmac there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from my desk to see what was the matter.
Away to the window I flew like a flash,
tore open the shutter, and threw up the sash.
The moon on the breast of the new-fallen snow
gave the lustre of midday to the tie-downs below,
when, what to my wondering eyes should appear,
but a Light Sport Aircraft and eight big EAA 'rs.
With a little old pilot, so lively and quick,
I knew in a moment it must be Tom P.
More rapid than eagles, his coursers they came,
and he whistled and shouted and called them by name:
"Now Rutan! Now Melville!
Now, Fossett and Boyer!
On, Lawrence! On, Heintz!
On, Van G and Sawyer!
To the end of the runway!
To the tie-down area
Now Shut Down ! Shut Down!
Shut Down All Engines"
As dry leaves that before the wild hurricane fly,
when they meet with an obstacle, mount to the sky
so up to the top of the FBO they flew,
with the sleigh full of flight toys, and Tom P. too.
And then, in a twinkling, I heard on the roof
the prancing and pawing of each little hoof.
As I drew in my head and was turning around,
down the chimney Tom P. came with a bound.
He was dressed all in fur, from his head to his foot,
and his clothes were all tarnished with ashes and soot.
A bundle of new FAA rules he had flung on his back,
and he looked like a peddler just opening his pack.
He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work,
and filled all the stockings, with SP and LSA Rulings.
And laying his finger aside of his nose,
and giving a nod, up the chimney he rose.
He sprang to his SLSA, completed his preflight,
And away he flew like the down of a thistle.
But I heard him exclaim, 'ere he flew out of sight,
"Happy Christmas to all, and to all a good night!"
(An Adaptation of the Classic Poem, "T'was the Night Before Christmas")
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to All
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Fw: This is amazing (3rd try) |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Let's try one more time.
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/space/RE_%20Fw_%20This%20is%20amazing.h
tm
----- Original Message -----
From: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Fw: This is amazing
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico"
<nico@cybersuperstore.com>
>
> Sorry, folks. I forgot that the Commander list strips off all images. You
> may look at this thing at
> Thanks
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: This is amazing
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher"
> <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
> >
> > I must be missing something, were there meant to be links in this post?
> > Tom F.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
> > To: "art la combe" <10sne1@sbcglobal.net>
> > Subject: Commander-List: Fw: This is amazing
> >
> >
> > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico"
> > <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
> > >
> > > Now, that's what I call progress in the right direction. Flying one
day
> in
> > a projected, virtual cockpit?
> > >
> > >
> > > Look closely n' guess what they could be...
> > >
> > >
> > > PENS WITH HIDDEN CAMS?????
> > >
> > >
> > > Any other wild guesses now?
> > >
> > > No clue?
> > >
> > > You have just now
> > >
> > > looked into the future.
> > >
> > > You have seen something that would replace your PC
in
> > >
> > > the near future.
> > >
> > >
> > > LOOK AT THIS...
> > >
> > >
> > > In the revolution of miniature of computers, the
> > scientists
> > >
> > > are ahead with Bluetooth technology... See the
> > forthcoming
> > >
> > > computers within our pockets ..
> > >
> > >
> > > This pen "sort of instrument"
> > >
> > > produces both the monitor as well
> > >
> > > as the keyboard on flat surfaces from where you can
> just
> > >
> > > carry out the normal operations you do on your
> desktop.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
--> Commander-List message posted by: BillLeff1@aol.com
They all had names
681 was the Hawk
680FL was the Courser
500S was the Shrike
The singles were the Lark and Darter
The Ag Plane was the Thrush
Though Birds!!!
I'll let you know that a Shrike is after Christmas
Keep guessing
Bill Leff
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Hoover technique question |
--> Commander-List message posted by: BillLeff1@aol.com
I forgot the Quail, Sparrow and Snipe AG Planes
Bill Leff
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