Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:02 AM - Re: SLIP/NO SLIP (Bill Bow)
2. 06:15 AM - Re: Slips / Rudder Pulley Brackets (Steven)
3. 09:19 AM - Re: FLAPS (BillLeff1@aol.com)
4. 09:21 AM - Re: Commercial Use? (Tom Fisher)
5. 09:26 AM - Re: Slips / Rudder Pulley Brackets (Tom Fisher)
6. 09:55 AM - Re: Slips (BillLeff1@aol.com)
7. 10:45 AM - Re: Commercial Use? (CloudCraft@aol.com)
8. 04:05 PM - Re: Slips (Bill Bow)
9. 04:24 PM - Happy New Year in Commanderland...!! (Randy Dettmer, AIA)
10. 05:03 PM - Re: Slips (BillLeff1@aol.com)
11. 05:21 PM - Re: New Year (RnJThompson@aol.com)
12. 06:35 PM - Re: Slips (Bill Bow)
13. 06:39 PM - Re: Happy New Year in Commanderland...!! (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
14. 06:41 PM - Re: Re: New Year (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
15. 11:38 PM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (dralle@matronics.com)
16. 11:46 PM - Re: Slips (css nico)
17. 11:46 PM - Re: Happy New Year in Commanderland...!! (css nico)
Message 1
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
No but a little Avgas around the roots will.
bb
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
YOURTCFG@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: SLIP/NO SLIP
--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
In a message dated 12/31/2005 6:33:34 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
daniellfarmer@yahoo.com writes:
I would be willing to bet the field was there first
What about the trees at the end of my runway. Will turning off the TXP
take
them away?? That would really be handy at night!! Happy New Year Dan!!
jb
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Slips / Rudder Pulley Brackets |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Steven" <steve2@sover.net>
Good, I'm not the only one to give the rudder a little boot on final
sometimes. Doesn't slip like a Cub, but gets the job done and I don't have
to mess with power. We need a steeper approach than standard at home base.
Speaking of rudders, we noticed something last annual that was really tough
to see. On the bulkhead ahead of the pilot's feet (forgot the number) are
two rudder pulleys on either side of the airframe. They are a bitch to get
at. After pulling the side nose inspection panel off, we noticed a 1/4 inch
long crack at the top of the rudder pulley bracket. It takes some work, but
we also saw the same crack on the 'back' side of the bracket.
Since we saw it on the one bracket, we took a real hard look at the other
side and found the same two cracks on the opposite side pulley brackets. The
airframe's got about 8000 hours on it, and it is used for survey work where
rudder is used often to correct yaw while on flightlines. Aircraft has been
indoors for at least 20 years, maybe longer. These brackets are a bear to
get at. It's one of the few places on the Commander where I thought it could
have been made of a heavier gauge.
Talk about rudders and slipping got me to remembering this. I'd be
interested in hearing if anyone else has seen the same.
Steve
Message 3
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--> Commander-List message posted by: BillLeff1@aol.com
Around 1979 Commander decided to reduce the price of the 690B by removing
some of the standard equipment such as the co-pilot's HSI. They then lowered
the price about $100K.
The B-II was the completely equipped, higher priced, version. Systems and
mechanically they are the same.
Rockwell did the same thin when they introduced the 681B. It was just a
striped down 681 to lower the cost.
Bill Leff
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Commercial Use? |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
What would a simulated feather thrust setting be on a 680FL(P) Mr.RPM?
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commercial Use?
> --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 31-Dec-05 14:42:45 Pacific Standard Time,
> capt_seth@yahoo.com writes:
> And so the question is: is it possible to safely
> demonstrate competency, say, in recurrent training or
> on a checkride for the Fed in a geared aircraft
> without trashing the gear box? And if so, how?
> >>
> >>
>
> Seth,
>
> The economic debate of geared engine vs. direct drive in a commercial
> operation is something I'll leave between you and your profit/loss
statement.
>
> As far as 135 check rides go in a geared engine driven aircraft, I've
taken
> many (AC-680E, AC-680FL, BE-80, CE-411) and can tell you with 99%
certainty
> that the FAA examiner is scared to death of engine cuts and even more
scared of
> geared engines, in general.
>
> The POI will probably tell you to simulate feather thrust -- which you'll
set
> up very slowly -- and fly what ever task you're supposed to demonstrate.
>
> It's totally unrealistic, as far as a training and check-ride scenario,
but
> it's the best both of you can do.
>
> If/when you acquire a geared-Lycoming powered Commander, the collective
> wisdom on this email net can give you lots of suggestions on power
settings to
> simulate feather thrust, depending on what model you end up with.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
> Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Slips / Rudder Pulley Brackets |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
My machine has been flying survey for 19 years so I think I will go take a
look, thanks for that.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven" <steve2@sover.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slips / Rudder Pulley Brackets
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Steven" <steve2@sover.net>
>
> Good, I'm not the only one to give the rudder a little boot on final
> sometimes. Doesn't slip like a Cub, but gets the job done and I don't have
> to mess with power. We need a steeper approach than standard at home base.
>
> Speaking of rudders, we noticed something last annual that was really
tough
> to see. On the bulkhead ahead of the pilot's feet (forgot the number) are
> two rudder pulleys on either side of the airframe. They are a bitch to get
> at. After pulling the side nose inspection panel off, we noticed a 1/4
inch
> long crack at the top of the rudder pulley bracket. It takes some work,
but
> we also saw the same crack on the 'back' side of the bracket.
>
> Since we saw it on the one bracket, we took a real hard look at the other
> side and found the same two cracks on the opposite side pulley brackets.
The
> airframe's got about 8000 hours on it, and it is used for survey work
where
> rudder is used often to correct yaw while on flightlines. Aircraft has
been
> indoors for at least 20 years, maybe longer. These brackets are a bear to
> get at. It's one of the few places on the Commander where I thought it
could
> have been made of a heavier gauge.
>
> Talk about rudders and slipping got me to remembering this. I'd be
> interested in hearing if anyone else has seen the same.
>
> Steve
>
>
Message 6
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--> Commander-List message posted by: BillLeff1@aol.com
I was an instructor at TWA (then owned by American) when American Flight
587. To keep this short, it was determined that after encountering turbulence
from a 747 in front of it, the flying pilot over controlled the A300 aircraft
in the yaw axis.
This over controlling of the rudder by rapid direction reversal is called a
Rudder Doublet. Contrary to popular belief, transport aircraft are only
required to demonstrate full travel of the rudder (at or below maneuvering speed)
from neutral to full deflection then back to neutral. Demonstration of full
deflection from stop to stop is not required!
Boeing put out a great paper on the subject and proudly pointed out that
their aircraft have never had structural problems with their tails because of
the extra design margins in the Boeing Aircraft vs. their French competitors
aircraft.
Proper use of the rudder became a priority in training after that.
Bill Leff
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Commercial Use? |
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
In a message dated 01-Jan-06 09:22:03 Pacific Standard Time,
tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca writes:
What would a simulated feather thrust setting be on a 680FL(P) Mr.RPM?
Tom,
With the IO-720, I'd use 14" and 2000 rpm. This is what I've found gave
equal performance (or lack of) to having one feathered on the long body MR RPMs.
If 14" MAP won't keep yours on the governor, you may have to up the MAP a bit.
This are approximate settings, of course. Each airplane seems to have a
different set-up.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
Message 8
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
Rudder deflection on the B747 is relative to speed. At higher speed you
can't get full deflection.
bilbo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BillLeff1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slips
--> Commander-List message posted by: BillLeff1@aol.com
I was an instructor at TWA (then owned by American) when American Flight
587. To keep this short, it was determined that after encountering
turbulence
from a 747 in front of it, the flying pilot over controlled the A300
aircraft
in the yaw axis.
This over controlling of the rudder by rapid direction reversal is called a
Rudder Doublet. Contrary to popular belief, transport aircraft are only
required to demonstrate full travel of the rudder (at or below maneuvering
speed)
from neutral to full deflection then back to neutral. Demonstration of full
deflection from stop to stop is not required!
Boeing put out a great paper on the subject and proudly pointed out that
their aircraft have never had structural problems with their tails because
of
the extra design margins in the Boeing Aircraft vs. their French
competitors
aircraft.
Proper use of the rudder became a priority in training after that.
Bill Leff
Message 9
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| Subject: | Happy New Year in Commanderland...!! |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer@charter.net>
New Years Greetings..!!
Just wanted to share some great Commander flying this holiday week. Loaded
up the 680F day after Christmas with 3 pairs of skies, 2 snow boards, about
8 big bags of clothing and gear, Christmas presents, and 5 persons (my wife,
son & girlfriend, daughter...and me) for our non-stop flight from SBP (San
Luis Obispo, CA) to SLC (Salt Lake City) for a week of fun at my sister's
house in Park City, UT. Total flight time - less than 3 hours. Not bad
considering we had to go south through Palmdale & Las Vegas because bad
weather over the Sierras didn't let us go direct at less than the MEA of
14,300 feet (not pressurized). After a week of spectacular skiing and
family fun, we piled it all back into the Commander this morning (New Year's
Day) for the flight home. The terrible weather in California once again
prevented a direct route home, so it was SLC to VGT (North Las Vegas for a
fuel & burger stop), then on to SBP, where we entered the nasty weather
around Palmdale (30-40 knot headwinds). The commander performed flawlessly
with a smooth ride at 11,000 feet (while the airliners all complained about
turbulence in the flight levels), with an ILS approach to SBP in heavy rain.
After parking, I backed my Ford Explorer up to the plane with the hatch back
open and overlapping the engine nacelle & flaps. We unloaded all the gear
into the car without even getting wet...can't do that in a low wing
airplane.
Anyway, I once again find myself so appreciative of the great qualities of
our cherished Twin Commander, after transporting our family in comfort and
safetly through the winter skies...thought I'd share it with you folks, who
can appreciate it too.
Best wishes to all of you for a Great New Year in Commanderland..!!!
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
Message 10
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--> Commander-List message posted by: BillLeff1@aol.com
You are right, That is true of most Transport aircraft. I was an MD-80
instructor and it also had a rudder limiter. However at lower speeds the rudder
limiter allows full travel. On the A300 the problem is that it has very light
rudder pressures for full defection (33 lbs) due to the fly by wire flight
control system. It is very easy to over control.
In the case of flight 587 the flying pilot created so much yaw from side to
side that the rudder, vertical fin and both engines separated from the
aircraft. It was below maneuvering speed by a good margin.
Good rudder handling habits are important in any airplane!
Bill Leff
Message 11
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--> Commander-List message posted by: RnJThompson@aol.com
To all in Commanderland,
Have a great New Year. We had a fine day running at about 47 deg C. A little
warm.
Had a wonderful visit from Moe and Linn. It was great to see them.
Flew my Super Cub for the first time on Wednesday. After a complete rebuild
and changing from US reg to Oz reg. Havent flown one of these things for about
15 years. Funny how quickly it all comes back to you. You discover things
like what a rudders is used for and what torque does in a grossly overpowered
aircraft. Its all come back and a blast to fly although I am beginning to become
a little afraid of birdstrikes from the rear. Comming over the fence at 40
kts, feels like you could walk faster. But you also land and take off in a very
very short space.
Now thats finished I will be back on the 680E. Hopefully that can be done by
mid year.
Best wishes from OZ
Richard & Jacqui
Message 12
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
Yes, I agree. Keep your feet on the floor.
bilbo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BillLeff1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slips
--> Commander-List message posted by: BillLeff1@aol.com
You are right, That is true of most Transport aircraft. I was an MD-80
instructor and it also had a rudder limiter. However at lower speeds the
rudder
limiter allows full travel. On the A300 the problem is that it has very
light
rudder pressures for full defection (33 lbs) due to the fly by wire flight
control system. It is very easy to over control.
In the case of flight 587 the flying pilot created so much yaw from side to
side that the rudder, vertical fin and both engines separated from the
aircraft. It was below maneuvering speed by a good margin.
Good rudder handling habits are important in any airplane!
Bill Leff
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Happy New Year in Commanderland...!! |
--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
GREAT STORY!! Thanks for sharing it. Happy New Year!! jb
Message 14
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--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
CONGRATS RICHARD That ws a long road back. Happy Ne Year!! jb
Message 15
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| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
DNA: do not archive
--> Commander-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com
Dear Lister,
Please read over the Commander-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Commander-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Commander-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Commander-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
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Failure to use the Commander-List in the manner described below may result
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Message 16
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
I guess there is just so much you can throw overboard before you change a
plane into a soon to be pile of crumpled aluminum.
----- Original Message -----
From: <BillLeff1@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slips
> --> Commander-List message posted by: BillLeff1@aol.com
>
> You are right, That is true of most Transport aircraft. I was an MD-80
> instructor and it also had a rudder limiter. However at lower speeds the
rudder
> limiter allows full travel. On the A300 the problem is that it has very
light
> rudder pressures for full defection (33 lbs) due to the fly by wire flight
> control system. It is very easy to over control.
>
> In the case of flight 587 the flying pilot created so much yaw from side
to
> side that the rudder, vertical fin and both engines separated from the
> aircraft. It was below maneuvering speed by a good margin.
>
> Good rudder handling habits are important in any airplane!
>
> Bill Leff
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Happy New Year in Commanderland...!! |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Great vacation, Randy. Welcome home and a very prosperous 2006!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer@charter.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Happy New Year in Commanderland...!!
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA"
<rcdettmer@charter.net>
>
> New Years Greetings..!!
> Just wanted to share some great Commander flying this holiday week.
Loaded
> up the 680F day after Christmas with 3 pairs of skies, 2 snow boards,
about
> 8 big bags of clothing and gear, Christmas presents, and 5 persons (my
wife,
> son & girlfriend, daughter...and me) for our non-stop flight from SBP (San
> Luis Obispo, CA) to SLC (Salt Lake City) for a week of fun at my sister's
> house in Park City, UT. Total flight time - less than 3 hours. Not bad
> considering we had to go south through Palmdale & Las Vegas because bad
> weather over the Sierras didn't let us go direct at less than the MEA of
> 14,300 feet (not pressurized). After a week of spectacular skiing and
> family fun, we piled it all back into the Commander this morning (New
Year's
> Day) for the flight home. The terrible weather in California once again
> prevented a direct route home, so it was SLC to VGT (North Las Vegas for a
> fuel & burger stop), then on to SBP, where we entered the nasty weather
> around Palmdale (30-40 knot headwinds). The commander performed
flawlessly
> with a smooth ride at 11,000 feet (while the airliners all complained
about
> turbulence in the flight levels), with an ILS approach to SBP in heavy
rain.
> After parking, I backed my Ford Explorer up to the plane with the hatch
back
> open and overlapping the engine nacelle & flaps. We unloaded all the gear
> into the car without even getting wet...can't do that in a low wing
> airplane.
>
> Anyway, I once again find myself so appreciative of the great qualities of
> our cherished Twin Commander, after transporting our family in comfort and
> safetly through the winter skies...thought I'd share it with you folks,
who
> can appreciate it too.
>
> Best wishes to all of you for a Great New Year in Commanderland..!!!
>
> Randy Dettmer
> 680F/N6253X
>
>
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