---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/22/06: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:11 AM - Wiring Harness, GO480-G1B6, 560E (Bill Kirkwood) 2. 06:28 AM - Re: Wiring Harness, GO480-G1B6, 560E (MASON Chevaillier) 3. 06:28 AM - Re: Wiring Harness, GO480-G1B6, 560E (MASON Chevaillier) 4. 09:01 AM - flaps and flexibility (Dan Farmer) 5. 10:58 AM - Re: flaps and flexibility (Alan Kucheck) 6. 11:24 AM - Service (Donnie Rose) 7. 02:34 PM - Re: flaps and flexibility (John Vormbaum) 8. 02:47 PM - Re: flaps and flexibility (Alan Kucheck) 9. 05:43 PM - Re: flaps and flexibility (css nico) 10. 07:43 PM - Re: flaps and flexibility (John Vormbaum) 11. 10:20 PM - Re: FW: Airframe life expectancy (BillLeff1@aol.com) 12. 10:36 PM - Re: Past, Present, Future (BillLeff1@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:42 AM PST US From: "Bill Kirkwood" Subject: Commander-List: Wiring Harness, GO480-G1B6, 560E --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Kirkwood" I am in the process of installing a "new" engine on my 560E and would like to order a new ignition harness. Does anyone know the Champion part number that would be appropriate? Also, in the inter-cylinder baffling there is a hole with a rubber grommet in it that appears to be where the ignition wires should be routed to the bottom cylinders. These holes weren't used in the previous installation. Should they be used? If not, should they be plugged so air doesn't go through them? Thanks. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:06 AM PST US From: "MASON Chevaillier" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Wiring Harness, GO480-G1B6, 560E --> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON Chevaillier" bk, aircraft spruce just gave me a very reasonable quote to order a wire harness through them. mason >From: "Bill Kirkwood" >To: >Subject: Commander-List: Wiring Harness, GO480-G1B6, 560E >Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 06:12:52 -0800 > >--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Kirkwood" > >I am in the process of installing a "new" engine on my 560E and would like >to order a new ignition harness. Does anyone know the Champion part number >that would be appropriate? >Also, in the inter-cylinder baffling there is a hole with a rubber grommet >in it that appears to be where the ignition wires should be routed to the >bottom cylinders. These holes weren't used in the previous installation. >Should they be used? If not, should they be plugged so air doesn't go >through them? >Thanks. > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:47 AM PST US From: "MASON Chevaillier" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Wiring Harness, GO480-G1B6, 560E --> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON Chevaillier" bk, ps the persons name was rick morino at aircraft spruce. mason >From: "Bill Kirkwood" >To: >Subject: Commander-List: Wiring Harness, GO480-G1B6, 560E >Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 06:12:52 -0800 > >--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Kirkwood" > >I am in the process of installing a "new" engine on my 560E and would like >to order a new ignition harness. Does anyone know the Champion part number >that would be appropriate? >Also, in the inter-cylinder baffling there is a hole with a rubber grommet >in it that appears to be where the ignition wires should be routed to the >bottom cylinders. These holes weren't used in the previous installation. >Should they be used? If not, should they be plugged so air doesn't go >through them? >Thanks. > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:01:41 AM PST US From: Dan Farmer Subject: Commander-List: flaps and flexibility --> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer John I have kept my powder dry but now have decided to stick my foot in _ _ IT. I use both techniques-that is I generally use half flaps til short final then run the flaps down as a means to bleed off some speed. If I am flying an approach in the soup I will be in the landing configuration over the final approach fix. I do the latter because (A) I would like to be as stable as I can as I approach the earth in the WX and (B) for timing purposes on timed approaches. I have learned most of my flying techniques from "old and senior airline farts". Now I am one. One of best lines is " Indecision is the key to flexibility". Just know your airplanes capabilities and your own because the situation is always fluid. dan farmer ps. I agree with Jim bob about gap seals. do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:58:56 AM PST US From: "Alan Kucheck" Subject: RE: Commander-List: flaps and flexibility --> Commander-List message posted by: "Alan Kucheck" So do answers given to this point change significantly when there is a strong crosswind? Last week a very unusual circumstance occurred at SNA: I took off on a short flight to check out a couple of maintenance items. The ATIS was calling the wind 200/7 and runways 19 were in use. The windsock confirmed; perfectly normal day down here. I did a short flight and returned for a practice ILS approach to 19R. Weather was CAVU and the air was relatively smooth. As I got lined up on the approach I got my first indication that things had changed: I had not been airborne for more than 20 minutes, yet now on approach I had a WCA of at about 25 degrees to the right to remain on the ILS. I was really surprised - what is going on here?. "John Wayne tower, windcheck, please." "Winds 250 at 18 gusting 25". Interesting... So I had the opportunity to land back at SNA [nice wide runway] with a crosswind component of about 15Kts and gusting higher. This is an area where I have precious little experience in my bird. As it turned out, this was one of my better landings ["nothing focuses the mind so much as an imminent hanging"], but I'm frankly unsure of any Commander-specific recommendations for this kind of situation. On this day I used half flaps while carrying a little extra airspeed for the gusts, and consumed significantly more runway than I usually do. What is the consensus on flaps and crosswinds? I have been taught [not Commander-specific] that strong crosswinds should be met with minimal to partial flaps. Agree/disagree for Commanders? Separately, is there a maximum demonstrated crosswind component for Aero Commanders? Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Farmer Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:01 AM Subject: Commander-List: flaps and flexibility --> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer John I have kept my powder dry but now have decided to stick my foot in _ _ IT. I use both techniques-that is I generally use half flaps til short final then run the flaps down as a means to bleed off some speed. If I am flying an approach in the soup I will be in the landing configuration over the final approach fix. I do the latter because (A) I would like to be as stable as I can as I approach the earth in the WX and (B) for timing purposes on timed approaches. I have learned most of my flying techniques from "old and senior airline farts". Now I am one. One of best lines is " Indecision is the key to flexibility". Just know your airplanes capabilities and your own because the situation is always fluid. dan farmer ps. I agree with Jim bob about gap seals. do not archive -- -- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:24:18 AM PST US From: Donnie Rose Subject: Commander-List: Service --> Commander-List message posted by: Donnie Rose Good morning all! Can anyone tell me the best place to get air filters, oil, and oil screen gaskets {50-100 service items}. Thank you all for your help in advance. Donnie Rose Donnie Rose 205/492-8444 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:34:22 PM PST US From: "John Vormbaum" Subject: Re: Commander-List: flaps and flexibility --> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" Hi Alan, Here at PAO we have frequent 90-degree crosswinds. At DVO, where I fly to see my in-laws, the predominant winds are directly across the runway. I've never modified my flap usage in those circumstances, and I can easily slip the airplane down, landing upwind wheel first, and using no more runway than usual. I seem to recall that twins aren't required to demonstrate a maximum crosswind component, and have never seen any for a Commander. I can say that I've landed mine in a 30-kt. crosswind (yes...THIRTY!) without any hint of loss of directional control. I also seem to recall that the max demonstrated crosswind component for most singles is often the highest crosswind experienced by the test pilots during certification.... If you want good crosswind practice, I suggest going to DVO (north of SF) the next time you're up here! Cheers, /J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Kucheck" Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:58 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: flaps and flexibility > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Alan Kucheck" > > So do answers given to this point change significantly when there is a > strong crosswind? > > Last week a very unusual circumstance occurred at SNA: I took off on a > short flight to check out a couple of maintenance items. The ATIS was > calling the wind 200/7 and runways 19 were in use. The windsock > confirmed; > perfectly normal day down here. I did a short flight and returned for a > practice ILS approach to 19R. Weather was CAVU and the air was relatively > smooth. As I got lined up on the approach I got my first indication that > things had changed: I had not been airborne for more than 20 minutes, yet > now on approach I had a WCA of at about 25 degrees to the right to remain > on > the ILS. I was really surprised - what is going on here?. "John Wayne > tower, windcheck, please." "Winds 250 at 18 gusting 25". Interesting... > > So I had the opportunity to land back at SNA [nice wide runway] with a > crosswind component of about 15Kts and gusting higher. This is an area > where > I have precious little experience in my bird. As it turned out, this was > one of my better landings ["nothing focuses the mind so much as an > imminent > hanging"], but I'm frankly unsure of any Commander-specific > recommendations > for this kind of situation. On this day I used half flaps while carrying a > little extra airspeed for the gusts, and consumed significantly more > runway > than I usually do. > > What is the consensus on flaps and crosswinds? I have been taught [not > Commander-specific] that strong crosswinds should be met with minimal to > partial flaps. Agree/disagree for Commanders? > > Separately, is there a maximum demonstrated crosswind component for Aero > Commanders? > > Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Farmer > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:01 AM > To: commander-list-digest@matronics.com > Subject: Commander-List: flaps and flexibility > > --> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer > > John > I have kept my powder dry but now have decided to stick my foot in _ _ > IT. > I use both techniques-that is I generally use half flaps til short final > then run the flaps down as a means to bleed off some speed. If I am > flying > an approach in the soup I will be in the landing configuration over the > final approach fix. I do the latter because (A) I would like to be as > stable as I can as I approach the earth in the WX and (B) for timing > purposes on timed approaches. > > I have learned most of my flying techniques from "old and senior airline > farts". Now I am one. One of best lines is " Indecision is the key to > flexibility". Just know your airplanes capabilities and your own > because > the situation is always fluid. > > dan farmer > ps. I agree with Jim bob about gap seals. > > do not archive > > > -- > > > -- > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:11 PM PST US From: "Alan Kucheck" Subject: RE: Commander-List: flaps and flexibility --> Commander-List message posted by: "Alan Kucheck" John: Thanks for the feedback on x-winds. ...interesting that you mention DVO. There is a good likelihood that I will do a fair number of SNA-DVO trips this year. Looking at AirNav, I don't see any fuel or car rental available. Any experience with either there? Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 2:34 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: flaps and flexibility --> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" Hi Alan, Here at PAO we have frequent 90-degree crosswinds. At DVO, where I fly to see my in-laws, the predominant winds are directly across the runway. I've never modified my flap usage in those circumstances, and I can easily slip the airplane down, landing upwind wheel first, and using no more runway than usual. I seem to recall that twins aren't required to demonstrate a maximum crosswind component, and have never seen any for a Commander. I can say that I've landed mine in a 30-kt. crosswind (yes...THIRTY!) without any hint of loss of directional control. I also seem to recall that the max demonstrated crosswind component for most singles is often the highest crosswind experienced by the test pilots during certification.... If you want good crosswind practice, I suggest going to DVO (north of SF) the next time you're up here! Cheers, /J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Kucheck" Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:58 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: flaps and flexibility > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Alan Kucheck" > > So do answers given to this point change significantly when there is a > strong crosswind? > > Last week a very unusual circumstance occurred at SNA: I took off on a > short flight to check out a couple of maintenance items. The ATIS was > calling the wind 200/7 and runways 19 were in use. The windsock > confirmed; > perfectly normal day down here. I did a short flight and returned for a > practice ILS approach to 19R. Weather was CAVU and the air was relatively > smooth. As I got lined up on the approach I got my first indication that > things had changed: I had not been airborne for more than 20 minutes, yet > now on approach I had a WCA of at about 25 degrees to the right to remain > on > the ILS. I was really surprised - what is going on here?. "John Wayne > tower, windcheck, please." "Winds 250 at 18 gusting 25". Interesting... > > So I had the opportunity to land back at SNA [nice wide runway] with a > crosswind component of about 15Kts and gusting higher. This is an area > where > I have precious little experience in my bird. As it turned out, this was > one of my better landings ["nothing focuses the mind so much as an > imminent > hanging"], but I'm frankly unsure of any Commander-specific > recommendations > for this kind of situation. On this day I used half flaps while carrying a > little extra airspeed for the gusts, and consumed significantly more > runway > than I usually do. > > What is the consensus on flaps and crosswinds? I have been taught [not > Commander-specific] that strong crosswinds should be met with minimal to > partial flaps. Agree/disagree for Commanders? > > Separately, is there a maximum demonstrated crosswind component for Aero > Commanders? > > Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Farmer > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:01 AM > To: commander-list-digest@matronics.com > Subject: Commander-List: flaps and flexibility > > --> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer > > John > I have kept my powder dry but now have decided to stick my foot in _ _ > IT. > I use both techniques-that is I generally use half flaps til short final > then run the flaps down as a means to bleed off some speed. If I am > flying > an approach in the soup I will be in the landing configuration over the > final approach fix. I do the latter because (A) I would like to be as > stable as I can as I approach the earth in the WX and (B) for timing > purposes on timed approaches. > > I have learned most of my flying techniques from "old and senior airline > farts". Now I am one. One of best lines is " Indecision is the key to > flexibility". Just know your airplanes capabilities and your own > because > the situation is always fluid. > > dan farmer > ps. I agree with Jim bob about gap seals. > > do not archive > > > -- > > > -- > > > -- -- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:25 PM PST US From: "css nico" Subject: Re: Commander-List: flaps and flexibility --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" I am no airline jock or someone with the privileges that military training offer. What I had I had to pay for at the local flying school back in the 60's. That was supplemented by many 'Oh sh.t, better not attempt that again' over the years doing a lot of bush flying. After that disclaimer, back to the topic. On cross-winds I key in a slightly higher speed (for gusts as Alan said) and full flaps. Even Cessna 150's will have all the flaps hanging out upon landing. In rough air, as soon as I have firm contact with the runway, I will raise all the flaps. In smooth air, I use the drag to reduce brake use. Now, I know, many of you will say, one day you're gonna pull the wheels up and have a very short step down to the runway, but I do a very short-final check on wheels-down by actually touching (fondling?) the gear handle down and locked (the Commander's unique lock) and so mentally confirming that the other handle is the flaps. Raising the flaps drops all tendency to keep on flying (in case of a gust) and rapidly gives me firm automobile qualities. There is an exception, however, and that is when wind gusts rock the airspeed indicator more than 10 knots. For fear of exceeding the flap extension speed and reducing bending moment on the wing, I will decrease flaps. Every situation requires its own judgment. Now I am open to criticism. I can take it. Nico with more formal training ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Kucheck" Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:58 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: flaps and flexibility > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Alan Kucheck" > > So do answers given to this point change significantly when there is a > strong crosswind? > > Last week a very unusual circumstance occurred at SNA: I took off on a > short flight to check out a couple of maintenance items. The ATIS was > calling the wind 200/7 and runways 19 were in use. The windsock confirmed; > perfectly normal day down here. I did a short flight and returned for a > practice ILS approach to 19R. Weather was CAVU and the air was relatively > smooth. As I got lined up on the approach I got my first indication that > things had changed: I had not been airborne for more than 20 minutes, yet > now on approach I had a WCA of at about 25 degrees to the right to remain on > the ILS. I was really surprised - what is going on here?. "John Wayne > tower, windcheck, please." "Winds 250 at 18 gusting 25". Interesting... > > So I had the opportunity to land back at SNA [nice wide runway] with a > crosswind component of about 15Kts and gusting higher. This is an area where > I have precious little experience in my bird. As it turned out, this was > one of my better landings ["nothing focuses the mind so much as an imminent > hanging"], but I'm frankly unsure of any Commander-specific recommendations > for this kind of situation. On this day I used half flaps while carrying a > little extra airspeed for the gusts, and consumed significantly more runway > than I usually do. > > What is the consensus on flaps and crosswinds? I have been taught [not > Commander-specific] that strong crosswinds should be met with minimal to > partial flaps. Agree/disagree for Commanders? > > Separately, is there a maximum demonstrated crosswind component for Aero > Commanders? > > Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Farmer > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:01 AM > To: commander-list-digest@matronics.com > Subject: Commander-List: flaps and flexibility > > --> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer > > John > I have kept my powder dry but now have decided to stick my foot in _ _ IT. > I use both techniques-that is I generally use half flaps til short final > then run the flaps down as a means to bleed off some speed. If I am flying > an approach in the soup I will be in the landing configuration over the > final approach fix. I do the latter because (A) I would like to be as > stable as I can as I approach the earth in the WX and (B) for timing > purposes on timed approaches. > > I have learned most of my flying techniques from "old and senior airline > farts". Now I am one. One of best lines is " Indecision is the key to > flexibility". Just know your airplanes capabilities and your own because > the situation is always fluid. > > dan farmer > ps. I agree with Jim bob about gap seals. > > do not archive > > > -- > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:57 PM PST US From: "John Vormbaum" Subject: Re: Commander-List: flaps and flexibility --> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" Alan, There's an Enterprise about 15 min. away from DVO, and they will deliver a car to you there. I recommend calling well in advance and being very optimistic on your arrival time as it has taken them up to an hour past when they say it'll be there for them to actually show up with the car. Their contact info is: ENTERPRISE 7401 REDWOOD BLVD NOVATO, CA 94945-2423 Tel.: (415) 898-3500 There's Also Novato Cab at 415-485-1234. On weekends there are only 2 cabs on duty and it can take them ~45 minutes to get to you. There is Chevron Fuel on the field and they have a truck....I don't have the phone number and can't remember the unicom freq. for them but it's posted at the terminal and they've proven very accessible even at odd times. Incidentally I twice did the same test that you did, only with one key difference: they weren't voluntary...I actually had 2 complete hydraulic failures, one in my airplane and one in someone else's semi-restored 500B. The runway available in each instance was 7,000 ft and 5,000 ft respectively. Both times I held the nose off and used aerodynamic drag to slow the airplane down (and avoid nosegear collapse; both times I had no green light for the nosegear). Both times I had to add power to keep the nose off and make it to the end of the runway. The incident in my airplane resulted in a very gentle nosegear collapse on the taxiway at about 5 kts. (user error....I tried to get too clever while airborne after recognizing the failure), and in the borrowed airplane it was a non-event. I never thought about distances, but on hindsight I think both airplanes would have stopped shy of 3,000 feet. I attribute this to holding the nose off to avoid the nosegear collapse; it REALLY slows the airplane down on the ground and I think it would be a viable tactic should you have the same problem. The only good news coming from this experience is the recognition that there are very few conventional failures that could be considered emergencies in Commanders, and the fact that my nosegear collapse cost me only a bellcrank and one gear door...whew! Also, I discovered that while rolling out on the mains, with a little power added, you can maintain elevator authority at very slow speed (~25kts?); I kicked in some rudder, and turned 90 degrees onto the taxiway quite easily with the nose pretty high in the air. I probably could have taxied under power all the way to Morris' hangar before letting the nosegear collapse, but that would have just made it easier for Morris to slap me for making such a rookie mistake ;-). You know, the airborne one where I touched the gear lever one too many times after the loss of hyd. pressure. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Kucheck" Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 2:46 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: flaps and flexibility > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Alan Kucheck" > > John: > > Thanks for the feedback on x-winds. > > ...interesting that you mention DVO. There is a good likelihood that I > will > do a fair number of SNA-DVO trips this year. Looking at AirNav, I don't > see > any fuel or car rental available. Any experience with either there? > > Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John > Vormbaum > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 2:34 PM > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: flaps and flexibility > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" > > Hi Alan, > > Here at PAO we have frequent 90-degree crosswinds. At DVO, where I fly to > see my in-laws, the predominant winds are directly across the runway. I've > never modified my flap usage in those circumstances, and I can easily slip > the airplane down, landing upwind wheel first, and using no more runway > than > > usual. > > I seem to recall that twins aren't required to demonstrate a maximum > crosswind component, and have never seen any for a Commander. I can say > that > > I've landed mine in a 30-kt. crosswind (yes...THIRTY!) without any hint of > loss of directional control. I also seem to recall that the max > demonstrated > > crosswind component for most singles is often the highest crosswind > experienced by the test pilots during certification.... > > If you want good crosswind practice, I suggest going to DVO (north of SF) > the next time you're up here! > > Cheers, > > /J > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Kucheck" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:58 AM > Subject: RE: Commander-List: flaps and flexibility > > >> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Alan Kucheck" >> >> So do answers given to this point change significantly when there is a >> strong crosswind? >> >> Last week a very unusual circumstance occurred at SNA: I took off on a >> short flight to check out a couple of maintenance items. The ATIS was >> calling the wind 200/7 and runways 19 were in use. The windsock >> confirmed; >> perfectly normal day down here. I did a short flight and returned for a >> practice ILS approach to 19R. Weather was CAVU and the air was >> relatively >> smooth. As I got lined up on the approach I got my first indication that >> things had changed: I had not been airborne for more than 20 minutes, yet >> now on approach I had a WCA of at about 25 degrees to the right to remain >> on >> the ILS. I was really surprised - what is going on here?. "John Wayne >> tower, windcheck, please." "Winds 250 at 18 gusting 25". Interesting... >> >> So I had the opportunity to land back at SNA [nice wide runway] with a >> crosswind component of about 15Kts and gusting higher. This is an area >> where >> I have precious little experience in my bird. As it turned out, this was >> one of my better landings ["nothing focuses the mind so much as an >> imminent >> hanging"], but I'm frankly unsure of any Commander-specific >> recommendations >> for this kind of situation. On this day I used half flaps while carrying >> a >> little extra airspeed for the gusts, and consumed significantly more >> runway >> than I usually do. >> >> What is the consensus on flaps and crosswinds? I have been taught [not >> Commander-specific] that strong crosswinds should be met with minimal to >> partial flaps. Agree/disagree for Commanders? >> >> Separately, is there a maximum demonstrated crosswind component for Aero >> Commanders? >> >> Alan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan >> Farmer >> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:01 AM >> To: commander-list-digest@matronics.com >> Subject: Commander-List: flaps and flexibility >> >> --> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer >> >> >> John >> I have kept my powder dry but now have decided to stick my foot in _ _ >> IT. >> I use both techniques-that is I generally use half flaps til short final >> then run the flaps down as a means to bleed off some speed. If I am >> flying >> an approach in the soup I will be in the landing configuration over the >> final approach fix. I do the latter because (A) I would like to be as >> stable as I can as I approach the earth in the WX and (B) for timing >> purposes on timed approaches. >> >> I have learned most of my flying techniques from "old and senior airline >> farts". Now I am one. One of best lines is " Indecision is the key to >> flexibility". Just know your airplanes capabilities and your own >> because >> the situation is always fluid. >> >> dan farmer >> ps. I agree with Jim bob about gap seals. >> >> do not archive >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > > > -- > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:13 PM PST US From: BillLeff1@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Airframe life expectancy --> Commander-List message posted by: BillLeff1@aol.com The Commander Aero Winglet, for the 500S was a copy of the factory tip for the 695 series. It was first put on AvFuel's Shrike. It does help low speed roll control bit does nothing for the high end. It was certified as "no change in performance" to save having to prove the numbers. Flutter test were done but no high speed computer modeling was done to my knowledge. The engineers at Wright Patterson did look at them but again, to my knowledge, they only gave an opinion. They did think that they were about as good as you could get without a major re design. They do look good and in my judgment really help low speed activities like take off, low speed roll control, maybe even single engine climb. But there is nothing to prove it. Oh Yeah, I did the flight test for Dick. There are some great reports on wing life expectancy floating around, I use to have a copy but I cant find it. It showed the fatigue life calculations for the different models based on hours and flight profile cycles. It was really neat. Low altitude aerial survey significantly reduced the life of the wing. I also saw the test facility at Norman, OK where they did the cycle life test on the 1000. As I remember they bent the wings 33 inches at the tip and pressurized the cabin to 21 psi before the cabin door blew off! It was cool! When I saw it, they had reached 21K hours and were still testing. Bill Leff ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:53 PM PST US From: BillLeff1@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Past, Present, Future --> Commander-List message posted by: BillLeff1@aol.com Jets use full flap approaches to keep the engines spooled up to reduce engine response time in the event of a go around or wind shear. Prop aircraft, ie Commanders, do not have that problem. So, full flaps when the landing is assured is still proper in the Commander. Jets also reduced the flap settings to meet Stage II and III noise requirements and did carry that setting to landing. I know one case, the DC-9-30 series reduced the landing flaps from 50 deg. to 40 for vibration. Bill Leff