---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/24/06: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:22 AM - Re: AERO COMMANDERS ON DISPLAY (William Boelte) 2. 10:34 AM - Re: New "Commander" in the family (YOURTCFG@aol.com) 3. 06:56 PM - Re: AERO COMMANDERS ON DISPLAY (BillLeff1@aol.com) 4. 07:07 PM - Re: Service (BillLeff1@aol.com) 5. 07:15 PM - Re: flaps and flexibility (BillLeff1@aol.com) 6. 07:26 PM - Re: Past Present Future (BillLeff1@aol.com) 7. 10:04 PM - Re: FW: Airframe life expectancy (Derek Monk) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:08 AM PST US From: "William Boelte" Subject: RE: Commander-List: AERO COMMANDERS ON DISPLAY --> Commander-List message posted by: "William Boelte" There is one on display at the Wedell Williams Air Museum at Patterson, LA. KPTN It is reported to be one in which Eisenhower flew. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Girod Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:57 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AERO COMMANDERS ON DISPLAY --> Commander-List message posted by: "Don Girod" There is one at the Warner Robin Air Musuem, Don >> Does anyone know of any Aero Commanders on display > > > Liberal, KS air museum > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:34:52 AM PST US From: YOURTCFG@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: New "Commander" in the family --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com In a message dated 1/20/2006 11:41:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, andrew.bridget@telus.net writes: Best regards and God bless, Andrew WOW!!!!! Great story. Thanks for sharing. jb ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:06 PM PST US From: BillLeff1@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: AERO COMMANDERS ON DISPLAY --> Commander-List message posted by: BillLeff1@aol.com US Air Force Museum in Dayton Ohio ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:51 PM PST US From: BillLeff1@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Service --> Commander-List message posted by: BillLeff1@aol.com Challenger Aviation is certifying K&N air filters for flat nacelle Commanders. Call Chuck Rocco at 937-667-0510. I have no idea what they will cost. Bill Leff ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:17 PM PST US From: BillLeff1@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: flaps and flexibility --> Commander-List message posted by: BillLeff1@aol.com I recommend full flaps on all landings except maybe very icy runways. Use differential power when exceeding more than 1/2 rudder travel. When on the ground the aircraft has a negative angle of attack and sticks quite well. Raising the flaps after touchdown helps some but they retract so slow you will be stopped before they are completely up. Bill Leff ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:30 PM PST US From: BillLeff1@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Past Present Future --> Commander-List message posted by: BillLeff1@aol.com I agree with Phil. Single engine landings should be a non event if normal landing procedures are followed, including use of flaps except do not extend gear until you are on the glide slope or started down from a VFR traffic pattern. Go to final flaps when the run way is made. DO NOT add extra airspeed because the plane will float when you cut the power because of the lack of drag from the feathered prop. It is amazing how may single engine landings end up in runway overruns! I offer training on single engine operations during recurrent training. Bill Leff ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:57 PM PST US From: Derek Monk Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Airframe life expectancy --> Commander-List message posted by: Derek Monk Nico, The wingtip vortex causes a downflow on the wing tip which reduces lift. To maintain the necessary lift the wing AOA has to be increased thus increasing the wing drag. The properly designed (and tested) winglet will minimize the downflow thus increasing the lift at the outer wing. Thus less AOA is needed, hence lower drag. Some people look at it as an effective increase in wing span, i.e. wing efficiency. css nico wrote: >--> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" > >My understanding is that winglets inhibit the development of wingtip >vortices, one of the major players in drag. Am I right? > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Derek Monk" >To: >Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:20 PM >Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Airframe life expectancy > > > > >>--> Commander-List message posted by: Derek Monk >> >>I understand that the winglets are purely cosmetic and make no change in >>the aerodynamic characteristics. Thus the BM should not be changed. >>However it only takes about a 10% change in load to half the fatigue >>life of a structure. Perhaps the Ozzies are just playing it safe. >>Derek Monk >> >>BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: >> >> >> >>>--> Commander-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com >>> >>> >>> >>>Good Evening Steve, >>> >>>I certainly do not understand why the folks down under want to extract >>> >>> >such > > >>>a penalty from those who attempt to improve their flying machines, but >>> >>> >may I > > >>>make a comment? >>> >>>Adding winglets should make the outer portion of the wing more efficient. >>>Something like a tip plate. Getting a little more lift out there means >>> >>> >that the > > >>>center of pressure (lift) moves outboard a bit. Moving the lifting point >>>outboard causes a greater bending moment at whatever point the bending >>> >>> >moment is > > >>>calculated. >>> >>>It appears to me that the people in charge down there are making those >>>onerous noises in an effort to force someone to develop data that will >>> >>> >show the > > >>>increased bending moment is not great enough to demand cutting the useful >>> >>> >life > > >>>in half. >>> >>>Has anyone developed such data? >>> >>>One the other hand: >>> >>>Why not maintain the airplane as a US registered aircraft? Are we not >>>allowed to fly our US registered airplanes in Australia and then use US >>> >>> >standards? > > >>>Just in case it matters, I do not own a Commander, but I did fly them >>> >>> >quite > > >>>a bit forty to fifty years ago. I enjoy your list, but will leave if >>> >>> >asked. > > >>>Happy Skies, >>> >>>Old Bob >>>AKA >>>Bob Siegfried >>>Ancient Aviator >>>Stearman N3977A >>>Brookeridge Air Park LL22 >>>Downers Grove, IL 60516 >>>630 985-8503 >>> >>> >>>In a message dated 1/20/2006 5:04:51 P.M. Central Standard Time, >>>steveg@nternet.com writes: >>> >>>I forwarded Jim's earlier email to my partner and his response is below. >>> >>> >I > > >>>have not had time to review and research as Michael has. Seems crazy to >>> >>> >me > > >>>that Oz sees winglets as capable of cutting a Commanders life in half. >>> >>> >My > > >>>last AC500 had winglets and other than watching for corrosion at the >>>connection points and overall body I see no threat. Just another part >>> >>> >of > > >>>the aircraft to inspect and maintain. Any knowledgeable comments >>>pertaining to Oz. Is Michael misreading something here?? >>> >>>Steve G >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > >