Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:56 AM - Propeller Electric De-Icing System (Moe)
2. 03:06 PM - air/oil separators (Nancy & Roland Gilliam)
3. 03:44 PM - Re: air/oil separators (Moe)
4. 03:59 PM - Re: air/oil separators (Chris Schuermann)
5. 04:43 PM - Re: air/oil separators (Moe)
6. 04:59 PM - Re: air/oil separators (Chris Schuermann)
7. 05:27 PM - Re: air/oil separators (Chris Schuermann)
8. 06:27 PM - Re: air/oil separators (Nancy & Roland Gilliam)
9. 10:15 PM - Re: air/oil separators (BillLeff1@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Propeller Electric De-Icing System |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
Hi Folks!
A technical question. While flying with my electric propeller De-Icers on, the
ammeter is generally in "the green". On the ground when the "feel test" is done
every thing seems to be fine. Some times while in operation the ammeter will
go to only about 6 amps (10 is minimum recommended). If I turn the prop heaters
off with the overhead switch, and turn them back on again the ammeter goes
back up to about 12 amps. Since (quoting from the POH) the timer does not
reset itself when the cycle is shut off: therefore, when the timer is re-engaged,
cycling starts from the position of previous operation. Where should we start
troubleshooting? After the switch is turned off and then back on immediately
everything seems to be just fine. Also, has anyone ever used an infared
thermometer to check the difference between the boot temperature and the ambient
(or prop blade) temperature. Thank you very much.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
Message 2
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| Subject: | air/oil separators |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Nancy & Roland Gilliam <amg@nc.rr.com>
Does anyone have air/oil separators on thier planes? I would appreciate
any comments on this.
Roland
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: air/oil separators |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
Roland,
What model do you have, and are you referring to the engine oil separators,
of the vacuum pump oil separators?
Thanks!
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nancy & Roland Gilliam" <amg@nc.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 3:00 PM
Subject: Commander-List: air/oil separators
> --> Commander-List message posted by: Nancy & Roland Gilliam
<amg@nc.rr.com>
>
> Does anyone have air/oil separators on thier planes? I would appreciate
> any comments on this.
>
> Roland
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: air/oil separators |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
Nancy & Roland Gilliam wrote:
> Does anyone have air/oil separators on thier planes? I would appreciate
> any comments on this.
I put an M20 on one of my airplanes and couldn't see much improvment.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: air/oil separators |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
Chris,
Assuming that you are referring to the engine(s), not the vacuum pump(s),
how many horsepower did the engine(s) have? Also, how many horsepower was
the M20 rated for? I have been working on two for my 680F(p) because no one
seems to have one with enough internal screen area to handle 380 HP and lots
of RPM that geared engines like. The oil separators are finished, but
mounting them high enough is a bit challenging. When that is figgered out,
a one time field approval will be secured from the local FAA.
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm@cox.net>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: air/oil separators
> --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
>
>
> Nancy & Roland Gilliam wrote:
> > Does anyone have air/oil separators on thier planes? I would appreciate
> > any comments on this.
>
> I put an M20 on one of my airplanes and couldn't see much improvment.
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: air/oil separators |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
Moe wrote:
> Assuming that you are referring to the engine(s), not the vacuum pump(s),
> how many horsepower did the engine(s) have? Also, how many horsepower was
> the M20 rated for? I have been working on two for my 680F(p) because no one
> seems to have one with enough internal screen area to handle 380 HP and lots
> of RPM that geared engines like. The oil separators are finished, but
> mounting them high enough is a bit challenging. When that is figgered out,
> a one time field approval will be secured from the local FAA.
Moe,
It was a twin-turbo IO-540 in a Bellanca Super Viking. That is a *VERY*
tight engine installation and impossible to mount the unit very high.
My personal opinion is that the M20 just isn't physically large enough
to do much good, but apparently others have had better luck than I did,
so maybe the installation had a lot to do with it. M20 is rated for up
to 950hp. Their claims are rather outrageous (again, my opinion).
Copied straight from their web site:
==========
1. Engines last up to 75% longer.
That is, TBOs from 2,800 hours to 3,500 hours, depending on
make. That would be engine life cost savings of about $10,000 to
$25,000. Do the arithmetic yourself.
2. FULL oil provides greater cooling of CHT, EGT (and TIT on
turbod engines). That is generally enough to lean 2 GPH to 4 GPH less
fuel flow than book settings and stay safely rich of peak.
Savings amount to $14,000 to $28,000 at todays fuel prices. Add
this to the engine life savings, above. Do the arithmetic yourself.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: air/oil separators |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
Thought I'd add one more "opinion"....
After having an airplane with and without a separator, cutting one apart
to see how it works, and thinking about it quite a bit, I came to the
conclusion that I'd rather have some oil blown out than have a
separator. My logic is that the separator not only condenses oil mist
and returns it to the engine, it also does much the same for oil-trapped
moisture. I felt that it was actually noticable visibly with my
airplane and became concerned that I was going to cause rust/corrosion
formation. Probably a non-issue if you fly every day, but for my once
a week flying it was a concern.
chris
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: air/oil separators |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Nancy & Roland Gilliam <amg@nc.rr.com>
Moe,.
I have a straight 500 (0540's) 250 hp. and I'm referring to the
engines. I'm adding about 1 quart of oil per 1 1/2 hours per engine, but
a lot of it is on the ground . This tells me that it is blowing out all
the time it is flying. Maybe I have excessive blow by, but compressions
are ok. Engines are 1100 hrs each app.
Thanks,
Roland
Moe wrote:
>--> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
>
>Roland,
>
>What model do you have, and are you referring to the engine oil separators,
>of the vacuum pump oil separators?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Moe
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Nancy & Roland Gilliam" <amg@nc.rr.com>
>To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 3:00 PM
>Subject: Commander-List: air/oil separators
>
>
>
>
>>--> Commander-List message posted by: Nancy & Roland Gilliam
>>
>>
><amg@nc.rr.com>
>
>
>>Does anyone have air/oil separators on thier planes? I would appreciate
>>any comments on this.
>>
>>Roland
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: air/oil separators |
--> Commander-List message posted by: BillLeff1@aol.com
I have M20's on my 560F and they work great with 2 1200 hour engines. We
also put 2 on a 680FP and they are working well. However, on the 680FP we had
to rig up a scavenging system to get the oil back to the engine due to the
volume of oil they collected. That took a while to figure out. We are preparing
to put a set on a 500S next. The M-20 STC does cover the Aero Commander.
Bill Leff
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