Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:53 AM - Re: US Air Force Commander conundrum (Barry Collman)
2. 06:03 AM - sighting for Barry (Chris Schuermann)
3. 06:18 AM - Re: sighting for Barry (Barry Collman)
4. 07:36 AM - Museum Finance, Was: US Air Force Commander conundrum (BobsV35B@aol.com)
5. 08:43 AM - Re: US Air Force Commander conundrum ()
6. 10:56 AM - Re: sighting for Barry (John Vormbaum)
7. 11:36 AM - Re: sighting for Barry (MASON Chevaillier)
8. 11:43 AM - Re: Museum Finance, Was: US Air Force Commander conundrum (skyhawkc-172@comcast.net)
9. 11:51 AM - Re: sighting for Barry (John Vormbaum)
10. 02:12 PM - Re: sighting for Barry (mike floyd)
11. 08:38 PM - Re: US Air Force Commander conundrum (Rockwell273)
12. 10:11 PM - Re: Re: sighting for Barry (Robert S. Randazzo)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: US Air Force Commander conundrum |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi Bert,
I accessed the photos that Scott took. I'm now virtually certain that the
'mystery' ship has now been identified as 680-317-12, which was formerly with
the USAF as 55-4648.
Out of the original batch of 15 ordered as Models 560A, the last two were
changed to Models 680. Both were used by President Eisenhower.
The photos Scott took outside the Wedell-Williams Aviation Museum at Patterson,
Louisiana clearly show "United States Air Force" painted incorrectly as "United
States Airforce" on the left-hand nacelle. On the right-hand nacelle, it is
correctly painted! Thank goodness the slide photographer took the shot showing
the wrongly-painted side! Strangely, neither the original shot, or those just
taken, show "55-4648" painted on the fin cap.
The downside to this is that the aircraft is now outside and has badly
deteriorated since the shot I originally had was taken. How can a museum, having
such a prestigious Commander, given its use by a US President, allow such a
thing to happen? It was purchased by the State from the Civil Air Patrol, then
donated to the museum. When inside, it looked pretty well immaculate. Now, it
needs one heck of a lot of attention.
Can I thank Scott Berry for taking the time and trouble to get the photos to me,
particularly at such short notice. "Thank You" Scott!
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: <bertberry1@aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: US Air Force Commander conundrum
| --> Commander-List message posted by: <bertberry1@aol.com>
|
| Hey Barry,
|
| The Commander in Patterson is sitting outside, I have someone going there now
to shoot some photos of it, will forward them as soon as they show up.
|
| Bert
|
Message 2
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| Subject: | sighting for Barry |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
Spoke to a new Commander owner last night. The 560F with the IO-720
conversions (N??KV) was purchased by a guy in Texas. Unfortunately,
when he got it home, his mechanic found a large crack in one of the
engines. Needless to say, he's quite disapointed having paid a premium
for such an airplane and will be down for some time.
Chris
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: sighting for Barry |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi Chris,
I think this must be 560F-1422-69. It had the IO-720 engines installed, or
sign-off as being installed, in December 2001.
Just the other day, I got a .doc file emailed to me of the Bill of Sale dated
April 7th.
Thanks for the heads-up Chris!
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm@cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 2:07 PM
Subject: Commander-List: sighting for Barry
| --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
|
|
|
| Spoke to a new Commander owner last night. The 560F with the IO-720
| conversions (N??KV) was purchased by a guy in Texas. Unfortunately,
| when he got it home, his mechanic found a large crack in one of the
| engines. Needless to say, he's quite disapointed having paid a premium
| for such an airplane and will be down for some time.
|
| Chris
|
|
|
|
Message 4
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| Subject: | US Air Force Commander conundrum |
--> Commander-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
Good Morning Barry,
The problem is one that is common to almost all aviation museums.
It is a LOT easier to acquire significant examples of the breed than it is
to acquire the funds required to house and maintain them.
It is we who love the aircraft that will have to provide the funds. If we do
not provide enough, the airplanes will suffer.
We cannot expect the public to pay for what we want to see. If the Commander
group wants the examples kept for posterity, it is up to the Commander group
to pony up the money.
Life is not simple for airplanes or those who love them.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 4/29/2006 7:54:22 A.M. Central Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
The downside to this is that the aircraft is now outside and has badly
deteriorated since the shot I originally had was taken. How can a museum,
having
such a prestigious Commander, given its use by a US President, allow such a
thing to happen? It was purchased by the State from the Civil Air Patrol,
then
donated to the museum. When inside, it looked pretty well immaculate. Now,
it
needs one heck of a lot of attention
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: US Air Force Commander conundrum |
--> Commander-List message posted by: <bertberry1@aol.com>
Barry,
The reason its outside is because the old meusem was damage and they are now in
the process of finishing the new building. It won't be outside for very long.
Scott is my little Brother, i'll tell him you were pleased with the photos.
Bert
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: sighting for Barry |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
7 years on the list, and I have yet to hear a "happy story" involving the
IO-720's. Has *anyone* made them run happily for any length of time?
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm@cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:07 AM
Subject: Commander-List: sighting for Barry
> --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
>
>
> Spoke to a new Commander owner last night. The 560F with the IO-720
> conversions (N??KV) was purchased by a guy in Texas. Unfortunately,
> when he got it home, his mechanic found a large crack in one of the
> engines. Needless to say, he's quite disapointed having paid a premium
> for such an airplane and will be down for some time.
>
> Chris
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1512 (20060428) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1512 (20060428) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: sighting for Barry |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala@msn.com>
jv, i have had two sets of io 720 one on a queen air excaliber
conversion.. absolutely no problems in almost 500 hours of operation. now
on a mr rpm 680 fp for 250 hours. no particular problems. 190 kts 23
square at 32 to 34 gph. please call to visit. mason 817-877-4977 or
mobise 817-517-4977
>From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
>To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Commander-List: sighting for Barry
>Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:54:55 -0700
>
>--> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
>
>7 years on the list, and I have yet to hear a "happy story" involving the
>IO-720's. Has *anyone* made them run happily for any length of time?
>
>/J
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm@cox.net>
>To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:07 AM
>Subject: Commander-List: sighting for Barry
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann
><cschuerm@cox.net>
> >
> >
> >
> > Spoke to a new Commander owner last night. The 560F with the IO-720
> > conversions (N??KV) was purchased by a guy in Texas. Unfortunately,
> > when he got it home, his mechanic found a large crack in one of the
> > engines. Needless to say, he's quite disapointed having paid a premium
> > for such an airplane and will be down for some time.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.1512 (20060428) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.eset.com
> >
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.1512 (20060428) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.eset.com
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: US Air Force Commander conundrum |
--> Commander-List message posted by: skyhawkc-172@comcast.net
Possible fund raiser of sorts to restore this rare presidential Commander???
Would be nothing more than complex, hard, discoraging & like pushing a boulder
uphill for miles...any ideas guys?
if so, you can count me in.
Brent Mueller N224HA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: BobsV35B@aol.com
> --> Commander-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>
>
> Good Morning Barry,
>
> The problem is one that is common to almost all aviation museums.
>
> It is a LOT easier to acquire significant examples of the breed than it is
> to acquire the funds required to house and maintain them.
>
> It is we who love the aircraft that will have to provide the funds. If we do
> not provide enough, the airplanes will suffer.
>
> We cannot expect the public to pay for what we want to see. If the Commander
> group wants the examples kept for posterity, it is up to the Commander group
> to pony up the money.
>
> Life is not simple for airplanes or those who love them.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
> In a message dated 4/29/2006 7:54:22 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
>
> The downside to this is that the aircraft is now outside and has badly
> deteriorated since the shot I originally had was taken. How can a museum,
> having
> such a prestigious Commander, given its use by a US President, allow such a
> thing to happen? It was purchased by the State from the Civil Air Patrol,
> then
> donated to the museum. When inside, it looked pretty well immaculate. Now,
> it
> needs one heck of a lot of attention
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Possible fund raiser of sorts to restore this rare presidential Commander???</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Would be nothing more than complex, hard, discoraging & like pushing a
boulder uphill for miles...any ideas guys?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>if so, you can count me in.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Brent Mueller N224HA</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: BobsV35B@aol.com
<BR><BR>> --> Commander-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Good Morning Barry, <BR>> <BR>> The problem
is one that is common to almost all aviation museums. <BR>> <BR>>
It is a LOT easier to acquire significant examples of the breed than it is <BR>>
to acquire the funds required to house and maintain them. <BR>> <BR>>
It is we who love the aircraft that will have to provide the funds. If we
do <BR>> not provide enough, the airplanes will suffer. <BR>> <BR>> We
cannot expect the public to pay for what we want to see. If the Commander <BR>>
group wants the examples kept for posterity, it is up to the Commander
group <BR>> to pony up the money. <BR>> <BR>> Life is not simple for
airplanes or those who love them. <BR>> <BR>> H
appy S
======
t; <BR
>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> </BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: sighting for Barry |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
Excellent! It's nice to hear that they can go the distance and be a viable
conversion. Perhaps I have that perception because people only post when
there's a problem, not when everything is hunky-dory.
Cheers & hope to see you at the fly-in this year!
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala@msn.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: sighting for Barry
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala@msn.com>
>
> jv, i have had two sets of io 720 one on a queen air excaliber
> conversion.. absolutely no problems in almost 500 hours of operation.
> now
> on a mr rpm 680 fp for 250 hours. no particular problems. 190 kts
> 23
> square at 32 to 34 gph. please call to visit. mason 817-877-4977 or
> mobise 817-517-4977
>
>
>>From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
>>To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Re: Commander-List: sighting for Barry
>>Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:54:55 -0700
>>
>>--> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
>>
>>7 years on the list, and I have yet to hear a "happy story" involving the
>>IO-720's. Has *anyone* made them run happily for any length of time?
>>
>>/J
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm@cox.net>
>>To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:07 AM
>>Subject: Commander-List: sighting for Barry
>>
>>
>> > --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann
>><cschuerm@cox.net>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Spoke to a new Commander owner last night. The 560F with the IO-720
>> > conversions (N??KV) was purchased by a guy in Texas. Unfortunately,
>> > when he got it home, his mechanic found a large crack in one of the
>> > engines. Needless to say, he's quite disapointed having paid a premium
>> > for such an airplane and will be down for some time.
>> >
>> > Chris
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________ NOD32 1.1512 (20060428) Information __________
>> >
>> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>> > http://www.eset.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________ NOD32 1.1512 (20060428) Information __________
>> >
>> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>> > http://www.eset.com
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1512 (20060428) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1512 (20060428) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: sighting for Barry |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "mike floyd" <floydgm@hotmail.com>
I have been working on and flying the MR RPM IO-720 conversions since 1981.
Compared to the IGSO-540B1A's they are a dream. They do have their share of
problems, cam and lifter problems, cracked crankcases etc.
I have also noticed that the large majority of them go to TBO. They are the
only horizontally opposed piston engine in the 400HP class that can claim
that.
Mike
Commander NW
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: US Air Force Commander conundrum |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Rockwell273" <scott@berrycommunications.net>
Barry,
It was my pleasure to go and get the pictures. Bert and I both share an affection
for Aero and Jet Commanders. I just haven't expanded my knowledge yet. I
have some more photos that I have collected from Bert and the web that I will
try and post when I get some spare time. I am sure that you have seen or collected
the ones that I have, but just in case I will post them.
Scott
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31752#31752
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: sighting for Barry |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo@precisionmanuals.com>
<gasp!>
Are you telling me my GTSIO-520-Ks might not make it to TBO????? :-p
Just about to hang a fresh O/H 520-K on the 685.... Last one came apart
after only 300hrs... Defect when the previous overhaul shop reassembled-
but that doesn't help my checkbook.
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mike floyd
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 14:12
Subject: Commander-List: Re: sighting for Barry
--> Commander-List message posted by: "mike floyd" <floydgm@hotmail.com>
I have been working on and flying the MR RPM IO-720 conversions since 1981.
Compared to the IGSO-540B1A's they are a dream. They do have their share of
problems, cam and lifter problems, cracked crankcases etc.
I have also noticed that the large majority of them go to TBO. They are the
only horizontally opposed piston engine in the 400HP class that can claim
that.
Mike
Commander NW
__________ NOD32 1.1513 (20060429) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com
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