Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:08 AM - Re: Re: Advice from Gear-Heads... LOP [bcc][faked-from] (Brock Lorber)
2. 07:25 AM - Re: regulators (Donnie Rose)
3. 07:40 AM - Re: Re: Advice from Gear-Heads... LOP [bcc][faked-from] (Therock24@aol.com)
4. 07:42 AM - Re: Advice from Gear-Heads... (WINGFLYER1@aol.com)
5. 09:24 AM - Re: Advice from Gear-Heads... (BillLeff1@aol.com)
6. 09:25 AM - Re: Advice from Gear-Heads... (BillLeff1@aol.com)
7. 09:36 AM - Re: Advice from Gear-Heads... (BillLeff1@aol.com)
8. 10:46 AM - WA State CFI's Mike Floyd? (Dave Phifer)
9. 10:52 AM - Re: WA State CFI's Mike Floyd? (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
10. 04:15 PM - Re: WA State CFI's Mike Floyd (mike floyd)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Advice from Gear-Heads... LOP [bcc][faked-from] |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Brock Lorber <blorber@southwestcirrus.com>
CloudCraft@aol.com wrote:
>Their reason for running ROP was not about cylinder head temperature nor any
>of the usual heat or oil wash reasons: it was because of the low lead content
>in modern AvGas.
>
>They saw a problem with valve guide lubrication that lead was intended to
>provide in these engines.
>
>
I'm not a metallurgist or engine rebuilder (I'm just barely a pilot :) )
but, I would bet that the engines that still need the lead for valve
guide lube have bigger needs. If an engine has been overhauled or
topped in the last ~ 10 (20?) years, it doesn't need the lead for
lubrication. At some point, even the air-cooled antiques that power
these confounded machines received new valve guides that don't use the
lead for lubrication. As pointed out, the lead is purely octane boost.
God bless the old gear-heads that have been building and rebuilding
these things since before I was born, but some have a built-in resistor
to noticing there have been some changes since the 1960s. One of the
best (and informative) conversations I've had with anyone dealing with
engines is when I toured Pacific Continental Engines with the owner John
Jackson (818-781-4947) in Van Nuys. John is a busy guy, so he doesn't
spend a lot of time jawing, but he did explain to me the differences
between the way his father (and other old gear-heads) did things, and
the way they're done now. We were talking specifically overhaul
considerations - used to be you could mic something like a connecting
rod and re-use it if it was in specs, now it's a mandatory replacement
per the FAA. His father's resistor basically forced him to hand the
operation to John; he just couldn't see his way to replacing what, to
him, was a perfectly good part. Add in technology that makes the magic
even tighter (I love that phrase), and John's dad was ready to throw in
the towel. Thank God he taught John the magic before departing the fix.
I'm not buying the APS "red box" hocus that is based on a Continental
graph from when Toby was a pup. Their logic contradicts itself when
using this chart, thus making that part of their argument suspect. The
science is sound, however, and I can provide real-world data from a
Continental IO-550 over multiple flights where LOP does amazing things
for temps and ease of operation (give me a bit to format and post the
data). With almost 500 hours on this engine, I giggle like a
school-girl every time I pull the plugs and read the serial numbers
stamped into the face of the pistons like they are brand-spanking new.
One last observation, and back to the original question about backlash,
is that all the LOP, ROP, props forward for landing, ground-feathering,
taxi discussions in the world are worthless with the props turning. The
ONLY thing you can do to save an engine (and the rest of the airplane
for that matter) has nothing to do with operating parameters. It has
everything to do with staying in the same zip code as the airplane (or,
even better, being one or two zip codes ahead of the airplane)
especially in the descent and landing. Strive for a smooth, programmed
reduction from cruise power at altitude to idle power on touchdown with
the engine pulling the airplane at all times in between (geared and
direct-drive). Use your brain and the airplane to hit the spot, not the
engines. That's what keeps jugs and props attached to the engines.
Brock Lorber
702-510-7728
http://www.southwestcirrus.com/n400ch
Message 2
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--> Commander-List message posted by: Donnie Rose <aquadiver99@yahoo.com>
Thank you for your kind help Bill, I will order them
today.
--- W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:
> --> Commander-List message posted by: W J R HAMILTON
> <wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au>
>
> Donnie,
> I have then on my 500A, last owner fitted them, not
> a problem in years.
> Cheers,
> Bill H.
>
> PS They are quite a popular retrofit under our
> version of a 337 approval.
>
> ----------
>
>
> At 02:29 AM 23/05/2006, you wrote:
> >--> Commander-List message posted by: Donnie Rose
> <aquadiver99@yahoo.com>
> >
> >Anyone out there have any expierience with
> >"Zeftronics" changeover regulators and relays on a
> >500B?
> >Need to repair a Regulator system ASAP.
> >Thank You
> >
> >Donnie Rose
> >205/492-8444
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Advice from Gear-Heads... LOP [bcc][faked-from] |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Therock24@aol.com
In a message dated 5/24/2006 5:09:45 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
blorber@southwestcirrus.com writes:
--> Commander-List message posted by: Brock Lorber
<blorber@southwestcirrus.com>
CloudCraft@aol.com wrote:
>Their reason for running ROP was not about cylinder head temperature nor
any
>of the usual heat or oil wash reasons: it was because of the low lead
content
>in modern AvGas.
>
>They saw a problem with valve guide lubrication that lead was intended to
>provide in these engines.
>
>
I'm not a metallurgist or engine rebuilder (I'm just barely a pilot :) )
but, I would bet that the engines that still need the lead for valve
guide lube have bigger needs. If an engine has been overhauled or
topped in the last ~ 10 (20?) years, it doesn't need the lead for
lubrication. At some point, even the air-cooled antiques that power
these confounded machines received new valve guides that don't use the
lead for lubrication. As pointed out, the lead is purely octane boost.
God bless the old gear-heads that have been building and rebuilding
these things since before I was born, but some have a built-in resistor
to noticing there have been some changes since the 1960s. One of the
best (and informative) conversations I've had with anyone dealing with
engines is when I toured Pacific Continental Engines with the owner John
Jackson (818-781-4947) in Van Nuys. John is a busy guy, so he doesn't
spend a lot of time jawing, but he did explain to me the differences
between the way his father (and other old gear-heads) did things, and
the way they're done now. We were talking specifically overhaul
considerations - used to be you could mic something like a connecting
rod and re-use it if it was in specs, now it's a mandatory replacement
per the FAA. His father's resistor basically forced him to hand the
operation to John; he just couldn't see his way to replacing what, to
him, was a perfectly good part. Add in technology that makes the magic
even tighter (I love that phrase), and John's dad was ready to throw in
the towel. Thank God he taught John the magic before departing the fix.
I'm not buying the APS "red box" hocus that is based on a Continental
graph from when Toby was a pup. Their logic contradicts itself when
using this chart, thus making that part of their argument suspect. The
science is sound, however, and I can provide real-world data from a
Continental IO-550 over multiple flights where LOP does amazing things
for temps and ease of operation (give me a bit to format and post the
data). With almost 500 hours on this engine, I giggle like a
school-girl every time I pull the plugs and read the serial numbers
stamped into the face of the pistons like they are brand-spanking new.
One last observation, and back to the original question about backlash,
is that all the LOP, ROP, props forward for landing, ground-feathering,
taxi discussions in the world are worthless with the props turning. The
ONLY thing you can do to save an engine (and the rest of the airplane
for that matter) has nothing to do with operating parameters. It has
everything to do with staying in the same zip code as the airplane (or,
even better, being one or two zip codes ahead of the airplane)
especially in the descent and landing. Strive for a smooth, programmed
reduction from cruise power at altitude to idle power on touchdown with
the engine pulling the airplane at all times in between (geared and
direct-drive). Use your brain and the airplane to hit the spot, not the
engines. That's what keeps jugs and props attached to the engines.
Brock Lorber
702-510-7728
http://www.southwestcirrus.com/n400ch
Great input Brock
Rocky Magee
Sierra Air Conditioning Inc.
4210 West Patrick Lane
Las Vegas NV 89118
Office 702 798-1055 ex. 202
Mobile 702 498-7601
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Advice from Gear-Heads... |
--> Commander-List message posted by: WINGFLYER1@aol.com
+Hello Guys, I am a new 680 owner and very interested in prop and engine
management. When I taxi at 12 to 15 and the props forward I hear the gears
clanging on the left engine but not on the right side, I would appreciate any
advise and have already learned a lot from your comments . Thanks Gil Walker
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Advice from Gear-Heads... |
--> Commander-List message posted by: BillLeff1@aol.com
How true!
However ,be careful what kind of fuel the line boys put in it!!! Some are
not smart enough to tell the difference!!
Bill
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Advice from Gear-Heads... |
--> Commander-List message posted by: BillLeff1@aol.com
I am sur you baby will appreciate the TLC it is now getting! Keep up the
good work.
Bill Leff
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Advice from Gear-Heads... |
--> Commander-List message posted by: BillLeff1@aol.com
Cycling the props to feather in the GTSIO-520 in the 421 and the 685 does
not hurt the gear boxes. However, I recommend doing it at 1500 engine RPM to
reduce the load on the gears. It accomplishes what is necessary. That is: will
the prop feather. It is not necessary to have the prop go completely to
feather. That unnecessarily loads up the gear train but should not hurt it.
Once it starts to drop, return the prop control to full RPM.
Bill Leff
Message 8
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| Subject: | WA State CFI's Mike Floyd? |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Dave Phifer <dave@phifer-sys.com>
I'm new to the Commader list and looking for Washington State based CFI's
who can provide initial transition training in the Commander (piston). I
was given the name of Mike Floyd but was unable to find any contact
information.
I'm evaluating the purchase of a 500B and trying to determine the
availability of transition instruction. If the purchase goes through, I'd
also be interested in the availability and rates of Commander pilots
willing to fly on some initial trips.
I fly out of 15WA, which is 9nm NW of Arlington (KAWO). Thanks in advance
for any and all input.
Kind regards,
-Dave Phifer
(360)939-0123
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: WA State CFI's Mike Floyd? |
--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
In a message dated 5/24/2006 10:47:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
dave@phifer-sys.com writes:
I'm evaluating the purchase of a 500B and trying to determine the
availability of transition instruction. If the purchase goes through, I'd
also be interested in the availability and rates of Commander pilots
willing to fly on some initial trips.
Hello. I live in Washougal WA (1W!) and I fly a 680E. I dont know of any
"local" Commander training but have a couple of other sources. Give me a call
at 360-903-6901 Jim Metzger Direector, TCFG
Message 10
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| Subject: | RE: WA State CFI's Mike Floyd |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "mike floyd" <floydgm@hotmail.com>
Hi Dave,
Welcome to Commander Land.
I am a pilot but am not a CFI I am mainly a mechanic for Commander NW in
Wenatchee WA.
Mike Floyd
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