---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/28/06: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:46 AM - Another derelect (N395V) 2. 08:21 AM - Re: Another derelect (Bill Bow) 3. 08:49 AM - Flight Manual - Model 500S (Barry Collman) 4. 03:15 PM - Re: Another derelect (Chris Schuermann) 5. 05:28 PM - Re: Another derelect (Tylor Hall) 6. 05:44 PM - Re: Another derelect (Chris Schuermann) 7. 05:45 PM - Re: Another derelect (Robert S. Randazzo) 8. 07:35 PM - Re: Another derelect (John Vormbaum) 9. 08:17 PM - Another derelect (BobsV35B@aol.com) 10. 08:37 PM - Re: Another derelect (Tylor Hall) 11. 11:36 PM - Re: Another derelect (John Vormbaum) 12. 11:53 PM - Any thoughts on FLAPS? (Robert S. Randazzo) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:41 AM PST US Subject: Commander-List: Another derelect From: "N395V" --> Commander-List message posted by: "N395V" [Crying or Very sad] -------- Milt N395V F1 Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=36939#36939 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:48 AM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Another derelect --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" You would look real sporty in that Alticruiser. bb -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N395V Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 9:45 AM Subject: Commander-List: Another derelect --> Commander-List message posted by: "N395V" [Crying or Very sad] -------- Milt N395V F1 Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=36939#36939 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:15 AM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Commander-List: Flight Manual - Model 500S --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" Hi Guys, If somebody has a Flight Manual for the Model 500S, I wonder if I could ask a favor? The first few pages contain details covering Specifications and Performance, usually under headings such as Operating Limitations. Virtually all the information on those first few pages is readily obtainable from other sources, of course, but I do like to use them for cross-checking purposes. However, I find myself without any copies for the 500S. So, if somebody is able to scan them and email them thorough to me, I'll be extremely grateful, as I'm currently compiling an up-date to my 500S 'Fact File'. Very Best Regards, Barry ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:15:51 PM PST US From: Chris Schuermann Subject: Re: Commander-List: Another derelect --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann N395V wrote: > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=36939#36939 That's another one that'll be purchased by a clueless wonder who will find out that it's gonna take a fortune to fix it. Likely in the boneyard in another year or so.... very sad. BTW, just saw a new price list from Custom Airmotive. They've officially discontinued overhauls for all GSO 480 and 540 series engines due to lack of parts. They're still doing gearbox overhauls though. $10,000 each for just the nose case. They do still show overhauls available for GO-480's fortunately. chris ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:43 PM PST US From: Tylor Hall Subject: Re: Commander-List: Another derelect --> Commander-List message posted by: Tylor Hall The future is near! What about hanging a pair of these on a Twin Commander? http://www.centurion-engines.com/c40/c40_start.htm They just flew a 206 with the 4.0 engine and are planning on doing a 414 next. The Duke is flying. 24 GPH for 350HP Tylor Hall On May 28, 2006, at 4:20 PM, Chris Schuermann wrote: > --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann > > > > N395V wrote: >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=36939#36939 > > > That's another one that'll be purchased by a clueless wonder who will > find out that it's gonna take a fortune to fix it. Likely in the > boneyard in another year or so.... very sad. > > BTW, just saw a new price list from Custom Airmotive. They've > officially discontinued overhauls for all GSO 480 and 540 series > engines > due to lack of parts. They're still doing gearbox overhauls though. > $10,000 each for just the nose case. They do still show overhauls > available for GO-480's fortunately. > > chris > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:26 PM PST US From: Chris Schuermann Subject: Re: Commander-List: Another derelect --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann Tylor Hall wrote: > The future is near! > What about hanging a pair of these on a Twin Commander? That has the potential to be a fine retrofit, but who's gonna pony up the big bucks to execute such a conversion? Don't mean to be a party-pooper, but there's just no market to justify it. I did a fair bit of engineering work to retrofit an angle valve IO-540 (300hp) to bathtub Commanders and just couldn't come up with the business justification to pursue it. Chris do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:36 PM PST US From: "Robert S. Randazzo" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Another derelect --> Commander-List message posted by: "Robert S. Randazzo" Hmmmmm....... Maybe if we arrange an elaborate kidnapping we could finally have a replacement for the GTSIO-520K? :-) Still dreaming- but a guy must always have a dream. Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 17:28 Subject: Re: Commander-List: Another derelect --> Commander-List message posted by: Tylor Hall --> The future is near! What about hanging a pair of these on a Twin Commander? http://www.centurion-engines.com/c40/c40_start.htm They just flew a 206 with the 4.0 engine and are planning on doing a 414 next. The Duke is flying. 24 GPH for 350HP Tylor Hall On May 28, 2006, at 4:20 PM, Chris Schuermann wrote: > --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann > > > > N395V wrote: >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=36939#36939 > > > That's another one that'll be purchased by a clueless wonder who will > find out that it's gonna take a fortune to fix it. Likely in the > boneyard in another year or so.... very sad. > > BTW, just saw a new price list from Custom Airmotive. They've > officially discontinued overhauls for all GSO 480 and 540 series > engines > due to lack of parts. They're still doing gearbox overhauls though. > $10,000 each for just the nose case. They do still show overhauls > available for GO-480's fortunately. > > chris > > __________ NOD32 1.1563 (20060528) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:45 PM PST US From: "John Vormbaum" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Another derelect --> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" Tylor, There's a guy somewhere in AZ who has a Helio Courier with the 4.0 on it, and Morris & I are supposed to fly down to take a look. If AvGas really is not going to be available in the long run, maybe this is the solution we need! Hmm, 350hp of turbodiesel power on my 500B might make all the difference in the world. /J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tylor Hall" Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 5:28 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Another derelect > --> Commander-List message posted by: Tylor Hall > > > > The future is near! > What about hanging a pair of these on a Twin Commander? > > http://www.centurion-engines.com/c40/c40_start.htm > > They just flew a 206 with the 4.0 engine and are planning on doing a > 414 next. > The Duke is flying. > 24 GPH for 350HP > Tylor Hall > > On May 28, 2006, at 4:20 PM, Chris Schuermann wrote: > >> --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann >> >> >> >> >> N395V wrote: >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=36939#36939 >> >> >> That's another one that'll be purchased by a clueless wonder who will >> find out that it's gonna take a fortune to fix it. Likely in the >> boneyard in another year or so.... very sad. >> >> BTW, just saw a new price list from Custom Airmotive. They've >> officially discontinued overhauls for all GSO 480 and 540 series >> engines >> due to lack of parts. They're still doing gearbox overhauls though. >> $10,000 each for just the nose case. They do still show overhauls >> available for GO-480's fortunately. >> >> chris >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > __________ NOD32 1.1562 (20060527) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ NOD32 1.1562 (20060527) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:42 PM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Commander-List: Another derelect --> Commander-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 5/28/2006 9:36:30 P.M. Central Standard Time, john@vormbaum.com writes: Tylor, There's a guy somewhere in AZ who has a Helio Courier with the 4.0 on it, and Morris & I are supposed to fly down to take a look. If AvGas really is not going to be available in the long run, maybe this is the solution we need! Hmm, 350hp of turbodiesel power on my 500B might make all the difference in the world. Good Evening John, It is great to se a new competitive engine on the scene, but the weight does appear a little high. If the fuel consumption is as low as quoted, the extra weight can be compensated for by the lower burn, but it is a shame to have to add weight at all. I am not at all familiar with the weights of the various Lycomings used on the Aero Commanders, but I am familiar with the weight of a Turbo Supercharged Continental IO-550-B. While it only develops 300 horsepower, it also weighs one hundred pounds less than the new diesel. Any comments? Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:52 PM PST US From: Tylor Hall Subject: Re: Commander-List: Another derelect --> Commander-List message posted by: Tylor Hall Old Bob, On the web site, they say the weight in a 414 is about the same total install with prop. They also talked about not needing to change the cowling on the 206. I know in trucks, a diesel has a lot more torque that the same size gas engine. 575 ft lbs. They claim 45 liters/hr/eng. 12 gallons per hour in US terms. http://www.thielert.com/ I am sure someone like John Towner would be interested. Tylor Hall On May 28, 2006, at 9:17 PM, BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: > --> Commander-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com > > > In a message dated 5/28/2006 9:36:30 P.M. Central Standard Time, > john@vormbaum.com writes: > > Tylor, > > There's a guy somewhere in AZ who has a Helio Courier with the 4.0 > on it, > and Morris & I are supposed to fly down to take a look. If AvGas > really is > not going to be available in the long run, maybe this is the > solution we > need! > > Hmm, 350hp of turbodiesel power on my 500B might make all the > difference in > the world. > > > Good Evening John, > > It is great to se a new competitive engine on the scene, but the > weight does > appear a little high. If the fuel consumption is as low as quoted, > the extra > weight can be compensated for by the lower burn, but it is a shame > to have > to add weight at all. I am not at all familiar with the weights of > the various > Lycomings used on the Aero Commanders, but I am familiar with the > weight of a > Turbo Supercharged Continental IO-550-B. While it only develops 300 > horsepower, it also weighs one hundred pounds less than the new > diesel. > > Any comments? > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > AKA > Bob Siegfried > Ancient Aviator > Stearman N3977A > Brookeridge Air Park LL22 > Downers Grove, IL 60516 > 630 985-8503 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:33 PM PST US From: "John Vormbaum" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Another derelect --> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" Hi Bob, Don't quote me, but I seem to recall that the kit will add about 60lbs. per side. That may not be prohibitive, considering the probable gross weight increase we'd get from the addition of extra horsepower. I'll bet that if/when it's approved as a replacement for the direct-drive Commanders, they'll specify 300 or 320 hp per engine vs. the original 290. Chris S. also addressed the cost. Considering that there are 2 aircraft I know of on the west coast who've paid a princely sum ($100-150k) to do the Merlyn conversion, which is still avgas-powered, I think the market for the diesel upgrade is viable. Just my $0.02, /J ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 8:17 PM Subject: Commander-List: Another derelect > --> Commander-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com > > > In a message dated 5/28/2006 9:36:30 P.M. Central Standard Time, > john@vormbaum.com writes: > > Tylor, > > There's a guy somewhere in AZ who has a Helio Courier with the 4.0 on it, > and Morris & I are supposed to fly down to take a look. If AvGas really > is > not going to be available in the long run, maybe this is the solution we > need! > > Hmm, 350hp of turbodiesel power on my 500B might make all the difference > in > the world. > > > Good Evening John, > > It is great to se a new competitive engine on the scene, but the weight > does > appear a little high. If the fuel consumption is as low as quoted, the > extra > weight can be compensated for by the lower burn, but it is a shame to have > to add weight at all. I am not at all familiar with the weights of the > various > Lycomings used on the Aero Commanders, but I am familiar with the weight > of a > Turbo Supercharged Continental IO-550-B. While it only develops 300 > horsepower, it also weighs one hundred pounds less than the new diesel. > > Any comments? > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > AKA > Bob Siegfried > Ancient Aviator > Stearman N3977A > Brookeridge Air Park LL22 > Downers Grove, IL 60516 > 630 985-8503 > > > __________ NOD32 1.1562 (20060527) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ NOD32 1.1562 (20060527) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:51 PM PST US From: "Robert S. Randazzo" Subject: Commander-List: Any thoughts on FLAPS? --> Commander-List message posted by: "Robert S. Randazzo" Commanders- I'm still in the process of compiling me general fund of knowledge- and thought you guys might be able to help with this mystery.... The Pilots Operating Handbook for the Commander 685 references conducting all takeoffs with the flaps UP. When I was checked out in N414C at purchase, the check pilot said that he conducts all of his takeoffs at flaps 10. I've used his advice- although for giggles I conducted one takeoff without them just to feel the difference. I found that performance (we are at 5200' MSL) was better with the flaps at 10, so this would seem to be my preference. I have not scientifically conducted any takeoff distance/climb performance measurements yet, obviously. Anyone have any hard-fast logic on this? Robert Randazzo