---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 12/02/06: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:23 AM - Re: DEA (Barry Collman) 2. 04:36 AM - Re: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AU (Barry Collman) 3. 07:19 AM - Re: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AU (nico css) 4. 07:33 AM - Photos (Barry Collman) 5. 07:36 AM - Re: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AUSTRALIA (Barry Collman) 6. 07:53 AM - Re: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AUSTRALIA (nico css) 7. 12:15 PM - gross weight (YOURTCFG@aol.com) 8. 12:29 PM - Re: gross weight (Barry Collman) 9. 03:39 PM - TRASHED COMMANDER IN CHARLOTTE (BertBerry1@aol.com) 10. 04:24 PM - Re: TRASHED COMMANDER IN CHARLOTTE (Robert S. Randazzo) 11. 07:08 PM - Re: gross weight (CloudCraft@aol.com) 12. 07:19 PM - Re: TRASHED COMMANDER IN CHARLOTTE (CloudCraft@aol.com) 13. 10:02 PM - Re: TRASHED COMMANDER IN CHARLOTTE (Robert S. Randazzo) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:23:47 AM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: DEA Hi Rob and All, Well, I ought to ask for your address, as if I tell you this story, I'd have to kill you ....... but what the heck: I've been told the 'story' about "Senor X", who wanted a new Turbo Commander, but needed additional fuel. Reportedly, his company was in the courier business, flying cancelled checks and bank documents between such places as Venezuela and Panama. Having been told by Rockwell that they couldn't issue an Export Certificate on a new plane which had additional fuel, he was evidently sold a new Turbo Commander and flew it to Downtown Airpark, who were to fit a "temporary" ferry fuel system. Of course, once he'd crossed he US border, the "temporary" would have become permanent. Anyway, as he taxied to the ramp at Downtown Airpark, the aircraft was seized by the DEA. After a Court Order was obtained by the US Dept of Justice, enabling them to sell the aircraft, the highest bidder at auction was Rockwell. I'd like to try and identify this aircraft, as I'm virtually certain that none of these documents would have ended up in the aircraft's file. This story is evidently from the late 70's and could have involved a 690B, or one from the 690C/695 family. I haven't been able to i/d this Commander, as I'm pretty sure that the original Bill of Sale, the Court Order documents and the second Bill of Sale from Rockwell will not have made it through to the aircraft's file in the FAA records. Someone has a contact at the DEA and is going to try and help. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert S. Randazzo To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 6:39 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: DEA Barry- Now you HAVE to tell us the story behind that request. :-) Rob ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Collman Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 05:12 To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: DEA Hi Guys, My failing memory seems to recall somebody on the list having a contact at the DEA. If so, could they get in touch with me please? Best Regards, Barry href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List __________ NOD32 1896 (20061201) Information __________ =========== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:51 AM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AU MessageHi All, I've now found some photos that Russell Legg me of this one. It's a Model 690, serial number 11039, formerly Australian registration VH-NYB. The registration is on that white(ish) panel at the tail. Location is the Highway Inn, near Daly Waters, Northern Territory. I think Russell will enjoy telling the tale on how he found this one after quick a trek! Very Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Stan To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 6:51 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AU Judging by the eyebrow windows and the lack of a dorsal fin in front of the vertical stabilizer, I'd guess it was a 681. What a shame... Stan N681SP -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bertberry1@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 12:49 PM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AU Does anyone here have a clue as to which Commander this is? And how it got there? Thanks, Bert http://www.flickr.com/photos/julesandjez/267528373/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:32 AM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Commander-List: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AU If that was a 'crash' landing, the pilot didn't do too badly, it seems. Do we even know in which part of the planet that happened? _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bertberry1@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 1:16 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AU You Know, I should have thought of that. -----Original Message----- From: bowing74@earthlink.net Sent: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 3:09 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AU I don't know which one it is. But I do know how it got there. It "emergency crashed landed" there. :>))) Sorry I just couldn't resist. bilbo _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bertberry1@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: Commander-List: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AU Does anyone here have a clue as to which Commander this is? And how it got there? Thanks, Bert http://www.flickr.com/photos/julesandjez/267528373/ _____ www.aeroelectric.com www.kitlog.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List blank>www.aeroelectric.com " target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank>www.kitlog.com =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List _____ size=2 width="100%" align=center> l?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom%2Fnewaol" target="_blank">Check ree AOL Mail and more. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:38 AM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Commander-List: Photos Hi Russell, I'm just now getting round to cataloguing the photos you kindly gave me at the Fly-In. There are a few I cannot i/d properly, as the regn isn't visible in the shots. So, can you i/d them from the following descriptions of hangar shots and also include the date & location? 1. Commander bottom right with Dornier 228 behind it. 2. Commander bottom left, with VH-BLT Beech 58P behind it. 3. Commander fuselage, ex Amann scheme next to flight of stairs, with "Caution mind your head" sign at the top. Also, can you give me the date & location of these ones, which I can i/d? 1. VH-EXV - no spinner and panels off nacelle. Port side shot, square on. 2. VH-YJA - at Essendon? Port side shot, square on. Has eyebrow windows! 3. VH-KAK - outside GAM hangar. Starboard side shot, square on. Has VH-UJV tail behind it. 4. VH-YJM - outside GAM hangar. Unpainted, Port side shot, square on. 5. VH-MAV - at Essendon? Port side shot, square on. Wettenhall Air Services titles. 6. VH-CAW - at Moorabbin? Has hangar with "Hinery" titles in background. Starboard side shot, square on. 7. VH-UJY - Port side shot, square on. Has windshield cover in place. Apologies for being a pain in the butt! Very Best Regards, Barry ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:28 AM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AUSTRALIA Hi Nico, The amended "Subject" line will explain it better! And, my earlier reply, which I expect you haven't scrolled down to yet! ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 3:18 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AU If that was a 'crash' landing, the pilot didn't do too badly, it seems. Do we even know in which part of the planet that happened? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bertberry1@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 1:16 PM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AU You Know, I should have thought of that. -----Original Message----- From: bowing74@earthlink.net To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 3:09 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AU I don't know which one it is. But I do know how it got there. It "emergency crashed landed" there. :>))) Sorry I just couldn't resist. bilbo ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bertberry1@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 3:49 PM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AU Does anyone here have a clue as to which Commander this is? And how it got there? Thanks, Bert http://www.flickr.com/photos/julesandjez/267528373/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Comm ander-List blank>www.aeroelectric.com" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com=_blank>www.kitlog.com=_blank>ww w.homebuilthelp.comlank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List size=2 width="100%" align=center> l?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom%2Fnewaol" target="_blank">Check ree AOL Mail and more. www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Comm ander-List ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:45 AM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Commander-List: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AUSTRALIA Ah! It is so. _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Collman Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 7:36 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AUSTRALIA Hi Nico, The amended "Subject" line will explain it better! And, my earlier reply, which I expect you haven't scrolled down to yet! ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 3:18 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AU If that was a 'crash' landing, the pilot didn't do too badly, it seems. Do we even know in which part of the planet that happened? _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bertberry1@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 1:16 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AU You Know, I should have thought of that. -----Original Message----- From: bowing74@earthlink.net Sent: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 3:09 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AU I don't know which one it is. But I do know how it got there. It "emergency crashed landed" there. :>))) Sorry I just couldn't resist. bilbo _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bertberry1@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: Commander-List: COMMANDER ABANDONED IN AU Does anyone here have a clue as to which Commander this is? And how it got there? Thanks, Bert http://www.flickr.com/photos/julesandjez/267528373/ _____ www.aeroelectric.com www.kitlog.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List blank>www.aeroelectric.com " target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank>www.kitlog.com =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List size=2 width="100%" align=center> l?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom%2Fnewaol" target="_blank">Check ree AOL Mail and more. www.aeroelectric.com www.kitlog.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Commander-List ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:50 PM PST US From: YOURTCFG@aol.com Subject: Commander-List: gross weight HELLO WCG. How much "over gross" were you allowed on you ferry permit to pango-pango?? Thanks jb ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:29:52 PM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: gross weight I think he had to lose about 30lb. But, it suits him! I bet Dan can't pick *that* much out of his belly button ;-) BC ----- Original Message ----- From: YOURTCFG@aol.com To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 3:25 AM Subject: Commander-List: gross weight HELLO WCG. How much "over gross" were you allowed on you ferry permit to pango-pango?? Thanks jb ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:37 PM PST US From: BertBerry1@aol.com Subject: Commander-List: TRASHED COMMANDER IN CHARLOTTE I found these photos of a trashed Bathtub Commander in Charlotte, N.C. Barry and I were wondering if anyone here has ever come across this one. And if so does anyone know which one it might be. Thanks, Bert http://www.flickr.com/photos/permanentennui/28562283/ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:27 PM PST US From: "Robert S. Randazzo" Subject: RE: Commander-List: TRASHED COMMANDER IN CHARLOTTE Looking at the image of the center console- looks like the left engine was feathered when the airplane met it's demise.... Flap handle is at full down.... wonder if it played a role. Never like seeing trashed commanders..... Rob _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BertBerry1@aol.com Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 15:39 Subject: Commander-List: TRASHED COMMANDER IN CHARLOTTE I found these photos of a trashed Bathtub Commander in Charlotte, N.C. Barry and I were wondering if anyone here has ever come across this one. And if so does anyone know which one it might be. Thanks, Bert http://www.flickr.com/photos/permanentennui/28562283/ __________ NOD32 1897 (20061201) Information __________ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:45 PM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: gross weight Capt. JimBob, That was 12 years and 2 weeks ago, which I can remember, but the exact percentage over gross I cannot. Safe to say 10% and possibly 15% over gross but that would be the maximum allowed. 15% over gross for an over-water ferry is a good place to start from ... but it won't get you to dry land if you're going from Oakland to Honolulu. The shortest coast-out to Honolulu off an adequate runway is (135 kts assume d ground speed): KOAK (37=B043'17"N 122=B013'15"W) PHNL (21=B019'07"N 157=B055'21"W) 2409 mi 15:30 If you're contemplating moving a Commander a long distance this web site is really fun for modeling different routes: Great Circle Mapper Wing Commander Gordon ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:39 PM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: TRASHED COMMANDER IN CHARLOTTE In a message dated 02-Dec-06 16:26:08 Pacific Standard Time, rsrandazzo@precisionmanuals.com writes: Looking at the image of the center console- looks like the left engine was feathered when the airplane met it's demise.... Flap handle is at full down.... wonder if it played a role. Want a position on the forensics team? ;-) The problem is, the wreckage as been too disturbed to ever know. The cockpit is right side up, but the fuselage aft of the wing leading edge is upside down. I also imagine kids have been using it as a play ground, so who knows what the configuration was at the time of the accident was -- and even that is an assumption. Given the location it could have been a tornado or hurricane that wrecked this airplane while parked. Wing Commander Gordon ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:00 PM PST US From: "Robert S. Randazzo" Subject: RE: Commander-List: TRASHED COMMANDER IN CHARLOTTE WCG- Looking at the image of the center console- looks like the left engine was feathered when the airplane met it's demise.... Flap handle is at full down.... wonder if it played a role. Want a position on the forensics team? ;-) hahahaha..... Sign me up! Spent enough time as a chief pilot that I developed that 4 second cockpit scan to assess the major component positions after a bird would come back to field with some type of cockup. You'd be amazed how created the switch positions can be when the crew disregards the checklists or the training breaks down. :-) Rob www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List __________ NOD32 1897 (20061201) Information __________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.