---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/28/06: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:28 AM - Re: AC-520 Vspeeds (Kerry Johnson) 2. 08:39 AM - Re: AC-520 Vspeeds (Bill Bow) 3. 08:48 AM - Re: AC-520 Vspeeds (Kerry Johnson) 4. 09:33 AM - Re: FW: holiday mishaps (Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)) 5. 09:50 AM - Re: FW: holiday mishaps (skyhawkc-172@comcast.net) 6. 10:23 AM - Re: holiday mishaps (Skyhawkc-172) 7. 06:13 PM - 560 operating speeds (Gary Moshluk) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:25 AM PST US From: "Kerry Johnson" Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC-520 Vspeeds Just checking in, haven't seen the Chat group for some time. _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CloudCraft@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 10:07 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-520 Vspeeds In a message dated 26-Dec-06 08:42:28 Pacific Standard Time, brcamp@windows.microsoft.com writes: It would be interesting to see how these relate to the 560s and 500s, which should be aerodynamically similar. In particular I think the specified Vx and Vy in the manual are just plain wrong. If there was a big variance with the other 5-series that would support the idea. As for the rest, I can get them from the plane today and list them (and confirm these), but is your interest historical or practical? Bruce, and B, Thanks for the AC-520 info. Sir Barry was kind enough to send me a scan of the manual pages he has, but there are no references to performance speeds really -- just limitations. I appreciate your noting the performance speeds -- such as they are. My interest is a little bit historical and a little bit practical. The last time I was in an AC-520 was about 1993 so I had no recollection of the performance speeds and of course, I was asked to fact check an article for a publication. Beyond that smallish task, I have always found the AC-520 manual ... charming. Historically, this manual was prepared before V-speeds were used as nomenclature. It's always been a trick developing a more modern check list for the early Commanders and ferreting out V speeds from the manuals. Speeds such as "best climb speed" are used, but how do they relate to our post 1976 (when GAMA standardized aircraft manuals and used V speeds) concepts. Is "best climb speed" Vy, Vyse, Vx or Vxse? >From that perspective, if you ever have the chance to look at the evolution of Aero Commander manuals, start with the AC-520 with its sparse 4 pages and work your way up to the AC-685 where there are as many performance graphs (and V-speeds!) as a Boeing. Yes, if anyone would like to scan their AC-520 manual, let's take a look! Happy New Year, Commanders! Wing Commander Gordon ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:53 AM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC-520 Vspeeds Where you been? bilbo _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kerry Johnson Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC-520 Vspeeds Just checking in, haven't seen the Chat group for some time. _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CloudCraft@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 10:07 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-520 Vspeeds In a message dated 26-Dec-06 08:42:28 Pacific Standard Time, brcamp@windows.microsoft.com writes: It would be interesting to see how these relate to the 560s and 500s, which should be aerodynamically similar. In particular I think the specified Vx and Vy in the manual are just plain wrong. If there was a big variance with the other 5-series that would support the idea. As for the rest, I can get them from the plane today and list them (and confirm these), but is your interest historical or practical? Bruce, and B, Thanks for the AC-520 info. Sir Barry was kind enough to send me a scan of the manual pages he has, but there are no references to performance speeds really -- just limitations. I appreciate your noting the performance speeds -- such as they are. My interest is a little bit historical and a little bit practical. The last time I was in an AC-520 was about 1993 so I had no recollection of the performance speeds and of course, I was asked to fact check an article for a publication. Beyond that smallish task, I have always found the AC-520 manual ... charming. Historically, this manual was prepared before V-speeds were used as nomenclature. It's always been a trick developing a more modern check list for the early Commanders and ferreting out V speeds from the manuals. Speeds such as "best climb speed" are used, but how do they relate to our post 1976 (when GAMA standardized aircraft manuals and used V speeds) concepts. Is "best climb speed" Vy, Vyse, Vx or Vxse? >From that perspective, if you ever have the chance to look at the evolution of Aero Commander manuals, start with the AC-520 with its sparse 4 pages and work your way up to the AC-685 where there are as many performance graphs (and V-speeds!) as a Boeing. Yes, if anyone would like to scan their AC-520 manual, let's take a look! Happy New Year, Commanders! Wing Commander Gordon ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:46 AM PST US From: "Kerry Johnson" Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC-520 Vspeeds Nowhere, just busier than I want to be, I'm still in St. George, UT. I had a complete computer crash a year or so ago and lost the Chat link, just getting a little more back to normal now. Kerry _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bow Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 9:40 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC-520 Vspeeds Where you been? bilbo _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kerry Johnson Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC-520 Vspeeds Just checking in, haven't seen the Chat group for some time. _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CloudCraft@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 10:07 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-520 Vspeeds In a message dated 26-Dec-06 08:42:28 Pacific Standard Time, brcamp@windows.microsoft.com writes: It would be interesting to see how these relate to the 560s and 500s, which should be aerodynamically similar. In particular I think the specified Vx and Vy in the manual are just plain wrong. If there was a big variance with the other 5-series that would support the idea. As for the rest, I can get them from the plane today and list them (and confirm these), but is your interest historical or practical? Bruce, and B, Thanks for the AC-520 info. Sir Barry was kind enough to send me a scan of the manual pages he has, but there are no references to performance speeds really -- just limitations. I appreciate your noting the performance speeds -- such as they are. My interest is a little bit historical and a little bit practical. The last time I was in an AC-520 was about 1993 so I had no recollection of the performance speeds and of course, I was asked to fact check an article for a publication. Beyond that smallish task, I have always found the AC-520 manual ... charming. Historically, this manual was prepared before V-speeds were used as nomenclature. It's always been a trick developing a more modern check list for the early Commanders and ferreting out V speeds from the manuals. Speeds such as "best climb speed" are used, but how do they relate to our post 1976 (when GAMA standardized aircraft manuals and used V speeds) concepts. Is "best climb speed" Vy, Vyse, Vx or Vxse? >From that perspective, if you ever have the chance to look at the evolution of Aero Commander manuals, start with the AC-520 with its sparse 4 pages and work your way up to the AC-685 where there are as many performance graphs (and V-speeds!) as a Boeing. Yes, if anyone would like to scan their AC-520 manual, let's take a look! Happy New Year, Commanders! Wing Commander Gordon ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: holiday mishaps From: "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" On 12/27/06 10:31 PM, "skyhawkc-172@comcast.net" wrote: > yup, I been on u tube again...enjoy > > b Dear b: Pretty boring at your house this year, eh? -- Deneal Schilmeister ATP Learjet St. Louis, Missouri USA http://homepage.mac.com/deneals/My_Commanders.htm ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:33 AM PST US From: skyhawkc-172@comcast.net Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: holiday mishaps ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:39 AM PST US Subject: Commander-List: Re: holiday mishaps From: "Skyhawkc-172" other one didn't go thru but to respond...umm yup, could be worse, could be better. b Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84004#84004 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:06 PM PST US From: "Gary Moshluk" Subject: Commander-List: 560 operating speeds For those wanting to compare the 520 to the 560, my 560's serial # 173 stats are: All speeds TIAS Never Exceed Speed (Vne) 270 mph Maximum Structural Crusing Speed 200 mph Maneuvering Speed 156 mph Maximum Flap Extension Speed 125 mph Max Gear Extension/Extended Speed 180 mph Max Speed for 1/2 Flaps 150 mph Minimum Control Speed * 80 mph Best Angle of Climb (Vx) 110 mph Maximum Performance Climb* 75 mph "don't know how this makes sense!" Best Rate of Climb (Vy) 135 mph The 'Engine-Out' drill calls for Full Power on Operating Engine, maintain heading and keep the airspeed between 95 - 100 mph (Vse) For anyone out there looking for clean 560 mine's up for sale. Both engines 0 SMOH (gearboxes tight) Props only 1 hour but out of calendar, modern panel w/ King KX 155's (1 w/ GS), King Audio Panel & Txpr, Northstar Loran, Dual Pilot/Co-Pilot instruments. New Tires, Paint '7' Interior '7'. This ship's been gone over with a fine tooth comb. It's just me and the wife, time to find a Cessna Cardinal again! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.