Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:53 AM - Engine Failure in N6253X (Randy Dettmer, AIA)
2. 09:12 AM - Re: Engine Failure in N6253X (CloudCraft@aol.com)
3. 09:37 AM - Re: Engine Failure in N6253X (Randy Dettmer, AIA)
4. 09:40 AM - Re: Engine Failure in N6253X (Jerry Sprayberry)
5. 09:52 AM - Re: Fw: worlds smallest airplane (Robert S. Randazzo)
6. 10:01 AM - Re: Engine Failure in N6253X (John Vormbaum)
7. 10:05 AM - Speaking of weird engine issues... (John Vormbaum)
8. 10:33 AM - Re: Speaking of weird engine issues... (Randy Dettmer, AIA)
9. 12:30 PM - Re: Speaking of weird engine issues... (Robert S. Randazzo)
10. 03:00 PM - Re: Engine Failure in N6253X (Tylor Hall)
11. 03:09 PM - Re: Fw: worlds smallest airplane (nico css)
12. 03:15 PM - Re: Engine Failure in N6253X (nico css)
13. 03:26 PM - Re: Engine Failure in N6253X (Randy Dettmer, AIA)
14. 04:00 PM - Re: Speaking of weird engine issues... (John Vormbaum)
15. 04:11 PM - Re: Re: Speaking of weird engine issues... (nico css)
16. 04:38 PM - Re: Re: Speaking of weird engine issues... (Moe - Ross Racing Pistons)
17. 04:39 PM - Re: Switch (Donnie Rose)
18. 09:50 PM - Re: Speaking of weird engine issues... (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Engine Failure in N6253X |
Had a rather exciting Thursday last week on a business trip in
N6253X (my beloved 680F). First leg of the trip was from SBP
(San Luis Obispo, CA) to SQL (San Carlos, CA) to visit two
projects in the bay area. Upon arrival at SQL we observed the
right main gear / wheel, lower engine nacelle and wheel well
coated with oil. Checked the oil reservoir, and it showed one
gallon on the dipstick. We started out with approximately 4
gallons, so must have lost 2-3 gallons during the one hour
flight. Nothing could be observed on the outside of the engine
that would account for this oil loss. I was able to get a local
engine shop to tow the plane to their facility to look it over
while we conducted business in the bay area. Upon return from
business around 3 PM, the engine shop had not been able to look
at the plane, nor would they be able to look at it until the next
day. Upon considerable discussion, we decided to top off the oil
at 5 gallons and fly the plane home to SBP. It would be a short
trip (about 45 minutes with strong tail winds). We planned to
monitor the right engine carefully, and if it showed signs of
trouble (loss of oil pressure, high CHT, etc) we would shut it
down and proceed home on one engine. About 20 minutes into the
flight, level at 11,500, the right engine is running fine,
however we noticed that the left engine is showing drop in oil
pressure with CHTs going up. We are thinking whats going on
here..??. My co-pilot (and associate) Doug looks at the left
engine and it is spewing oil out from under the engine nacelle.
I immediately pull power back to about 20 inches on both engines,
announce to Norcal Approach that we are making an immediate
landing at SNS (Salinas) and point the nose down. The left CHT
is staying in the green, and the oil pressure is down to about 15
to 20 lbs. I am hoping to make it down without losing the left
engine. No such luckabout a minute later the left engine seizes
with a shudder, and I feather it. With the right engine still
suspect, I declare an emergency and we land without further
incident at SNS. I was actually able to taxi in to parking on
one enginenot easy in a Commander. Until the left engine
seized, the CHT never left the green, and the oil pressure
remained at about 20 lbs.
The folks at SNS were great, along with Norcal approach and the
tower in handling our emergency. Checked oil levels in both
engines5 gals in the right (no loss of oil in the 20 minute
flight), empty in the left. Turns out that the left engine threw
a rod on the No. 6 cylinder, and blew a 5 diameter hole in the
top of the case. The airplane is now in the good hands of Dave
Teeters and Airmotive Specialties at SNS. Dave Teeters, Morris
Kernick (my Commander guru from Stockton) and I spent the better
part of Saturday in SNS poking around the airplane trying to
determine the cause(s) of the problems experienced on both
engines. The airplane just came out of annual (performed by
Morris 5.5 hours ago) where 2 cylinders were replaced on the
right engine, and one cylinder was replaced on the left engine.
The theory on the table at this time is that we have a problem
with the rings in the new cylinders. Since we have found no
sources of oil leaks on the engines (blown out seals, broken
hoses, loose clamps, etc) the only way for the oil to leave the
engine is through the breather. If the crankcase is pressurized
with combustion gases blown by the rings, the oil could be pushed
out the breather..?? The right engine has been cleaned and run,
with no loss of oil or oil leaks. The screens have been pulled
and show lots of metal. The left engine was removed from the
airplane yesterday, and cylinders will be pulled on Monday. We
are very interested to see what the rings and cylinders look
like.
Thought you guys might be interested in my situation. It is
certainly curious that I did not experience any problems until
5.5 hours after the annual. The facts are that both engines
received new cylinders, both engines experienced a major oil
event, and both events occurred at the same time. Any thoughts
you may have will be appreciated. Ill keep you all informed of
what we find in the coming days.
Randy Dettmer, AIA
680F/N6253X
DettmerArchitecture
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Engine Failure in N6253X |
In a message dated 24-Feb-07 08:56:00 Pacific Standard Time,
rcdettmer@charter.net writes:
Thought you guys might be interested in my situation.
That's an uderstatement! Good job on the O.E.I. approach, landing -- and the
really hard part -- taxi!
Between Morris and Dave Teeters, you're in good hands and the common
denominator does seem to be the new cylinders.
You didn't say if the rod failure was with one of the new jugs.
I've had bad piston rings on an IGSO-540 pressurize the case and blow oil, so
I'm going to vote for that theory -- but do let us know.
Tell Morris I say hello as I know you'll be in close contact with him the
next few days.
Wing Commander Gordon
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Engine Failure in N6253X |
The new cylinder was the outboard middle cylinder. The failed
rod was on the aft outboard cylinder (next to the new cylinder).
Thanks for your input.
RD
DettmerArchitecture
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
CloudCraft@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Failure in N6253X
In a message dated 24-Feb-07 08:56:00 Pacific Standard Time,
rcdettmer@charter.net writes:
Thought you guys might be interested in my situation.
That's an uderstatement! Good job on the O.E.I. approach,
landing -- and the really hard part -- taxi!
Between Morris and Dave Teeters, you're in good hands and the
common denominator does seem to be the new cylinders.
You didn't say if the rod failure was with one of the new jugs.
I've had bad piston rings on an IGSO-540 pressurize the case and
blow oil, so I'm going to vote for that theory -- but do let us
know.
Tell Morris I say hello as I know you'll be in close contact with
him the next few days.
Wing Commander Gordon
_____
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
free 4298082137/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com"
137/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom"
target="_blank">AOL.com.
**************************************
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
Message 4
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Engine Failure in N6253X |
Randy,
You are not at all alone on this one, as I have had a strange Oil
disappearing act on my 680, it happened two times on the left side and
we found the Oil separator was full of gunk, cleaned and it was again
OK. I have just put a new Engine on that side which Morris found for me.
I just flew it yesterday for the first time to break-in and after about
:20 Minutes Oil Pres went down to 30 PSI, and the Simmonds started
acting up so I feathered it and landed, I had dropped 17 quarts of Oil.
We cleaned it up and did a ground run this morning and found a broken
High Pressure Oil line to the OP Gage that was cracked, It made me feel
a lot better knowing the reason for the loss of oil. I was able to taxi
all the way back to the Hanger only because I was able to keep my speed
up.
I hope you find out about yours, keep us posted.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Dettmer, AIA
To: Commander Chat
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 11:51 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Engine Failure in N6253X
Had a rather exciting Thursday last week on a business trip in N6253X
(my beloved 680F). First leg of the trip was from SBP (San Luis Obispo,
CA) to SQL (San Carlos, CA) to visit two projects in the bay area. Upon
arrival at SQL we observed the right main gear / wheel, lower engine
nacelle and wheel well coated with oil. Checked the oil reservoir, and
it showed one gallon on the dipstick. We started out with approximately
4 gallons, so must have lost 2-3 gallons during the one hour flight.
Nothing could be observed on the outside of the engine that would
account for this oil loss. I was able to get a local engine shop to tow
the plane to their facility to look it over while we conducted business
in the bay area. Upon return from business around 3 PM, the engine shop
had not been able to look at the plane, nor would they be able to look
at it until the next day. Upon considerable discussion, we decided to
top off the oil at 5 gallons and fly the plane home to SBP. It would be
a short trip (about 45 minutes with strong tail winds). We planned to
monitor the right engine carefully, and if it showed signs of trouble
(loss of oil pressure, high CHT, etc) we would shut it down and proceed
home on one engine. About 20 minutes into the flight, level at 11,500,
the right engine is running fine, however we noticed that the "left"
engine is showing drop in oil pressure with CHT's going up. We are
thinking "what's going on here..??". My co-pilot (and associate) Doug
looks at the left engine and it is spewing oil out from under the engine
nacelle. I immediately pull power back to about 20 inches on both
engines, announce to Norcal Approach that we are making an immediate
landing at SNS (Salinas) and point the nose down. The left CHT is
staying in the green, and the oil pressure is down to about 15 to 20
lbs. I am hoping to make it down without losing the left engine. No
such luck.about a minute later the left engine seizes with a shudder,
and I feather it. With the right engine still suspect, I declare an
emergency and we land without further incident at SNS. I was actually
able to taxi in to parking on one engine.not easy in a Commander. Until
the left engine seized, the CHT never left the green, and the oil
pressure remained at about 20 lbs.
The folks at SNS were great, along with Norcal approach and the tower
in handling our emergency. Checked oil levels in both engines.5 gals in
the right (no loss of oil in the 20 minute flight), empty in the left.
Turns out that the left engine threw a rod on the No. 6 cylinder, and
blew a 5" diameter hole in the top of the case. The airplane is now in
the good hands of Dave Teeters and Airmotive Specialties at SNS. Dave
Teeters, Morris Kernick (my Commander guru from Stockton) and I spent
the better part of Saturday in SNS poking around the airplane trying to
determine the cause(s) of the problems experienced on both engines. The
airplane just came out of annual (performed by Morris 5.5 hours ago)
where 2 cylinders were replaced on the right engine, and one cylinder
was replaced on the left engine. The theory on the table at this time
is that we have a problem with the rings in the new cylinders. Since we
have found no sources of oil leaks on the engines (blown out seals,
broken hoses, loose clamps, etc) the only way for the oil to leave the
engine is through the breather. If the crankcase is pressurized with
combustion gases blown by the rings, the oil could be pushed out the
breather..?? The right engine has been cleaned and run, with no loss of
oil or oil leaks. The screens have been pulled and show lots of metal.
The left engine was removed from the airplane yesterday, and cylinders
will be pulled on Monday. We are very interested to see what the rings
and cylinders look like.
Thought you guys might be interested in my situation. It is certainly
curious that I did not experience any problems until 5.5 hours after the
annual. The facts are that "both" engines received new cylinders,
"both" engines experienced a major oil event, and both events occurred
at the "same time". Any thoughts you may have will be appreciated.
I'll keep you all informed of what we find in the coming days.
Randy Dettmer, AIA
680F/N6253X
DettmerArchitecture
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
Message 5
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Fw: worlds smallest airplane |
If the Airline Transport Associate and the FAA get their way- that's about
all we'll all be able to afford to fly...
Robert S. Randazzo
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 23:54
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: worlds smallest airplane
Look at the bright side, if he messes up, there's little to clean up and the
collateral damage will be negligible.
----- Original Message -----
From: nico <mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com> css
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 11:09 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fw: worlds smallest airplane
Flying lawnmowers should be illegal.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: worlds smallest airplane
He probably meant this little fella here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlV8WJ6N3nU
Of course, anyone willing to fly that should probably have their certificate
revoked on general principle ;-).
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft@aol.com
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: worlds smallest airplane
So small, it's invisible! (At least via my email server.)
Wing Commander Gordon
_____
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from
AOL at AOL.com.
**************************************
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from
AOL at http://www.aol.com.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
__________ NOD32 2076 (20070222) Information __________
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
__________ NOD32 2076 (20070222) Information __________
__________ NOD32 2078 (20070223) Information __________
Message 6
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Engine Failure in N6253X |
Randy,
I heard about your adventures from Morris last week....I was going to call but
figured you'd be in mourning for a while. I know I would.
I'm glad you got down safely, and managed to keep the right one turning. Hopefully
Dave & Morris can get you back flying quickly!
/John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97084#97084
Message 7
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Speaking of weird engine issues... |
There seems to be a rash of engine weirdness going around. I blew both oil coolers,
at idle, 5 sec. apart after startup one day. We replaced the coolers, checked
everything, started up again on a nice, sunny, 63-deg. day, and blew the
left one again. Turns out the filters that are on it (don't remember the name)
have fewer oil return holes than the Champions we normally use....which built
the pressure in the cooler loop up to 650psi! It looks like the Champions will
return the airplane to its normal behavior.
The coolers are bench tested to 400psi, and we've discovered that normal pressure
for that part of the oil system is about 200-250psi.
Oh, and the $2k environmental cleanup charge (to recover the 14 quarts of oil spilled
on the ramp), courtesy of Marin County Airports, was a real drag too.
/John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97085#97085
Message 8
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Speaking of weird engine issues... |
I'll trade your $2K clean-up for my $$$ engine replacement.
RD
DettmerArchitecture
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Vormbaum
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 10:04 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Speaking of weird engine issues...
There seems to be a rash of engine weirdness going around. I blew both oil
coolers, at idle, 5 sec. apart after startup one day. We replaced the
coolers, checked everything, started up again on a nice, sunny, 63-deg. day,
and blew the left one again. Turns out the filters that are on it (don't
remember the name) have fewer oil return holes than the Champions we
normally use....which built the pressure in the cooler loop up to 650psi! It
looks like the Champions will return the airplane to its normal behavior.
The coolers are bench tested to 400psi, and we've discovered that normal
pressure for that part of the oil system is about 200-250psi.
Oh, and the $2k environmental cleanup charge (to recover the 14 quarts of
oil spilled on the ramp), courtesy of Marin County Airports, was a real drag
too.
/John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97085#97085
Message 9
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Speaking of weird engine issues... |
John-
Are you SERIOUS??? $2000??????
I'm not sure I'd want to live in a place like that....
Robert S. Randazzo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 10:04
Subject: Commander-List: Speaking of weird engine issues...
--> <john@vormbaum.com>
There seems to be a rash of engine weirdness going around. I blew both oil
coolers, at idle, 5 sec. apart after startup one day. We replaced the
coolers, checked everything, started up again on a nice, sunny, 63-deg. day,
and blew the left one again. Turns out the filters that are on it (don't
remember the name) have fewer oil return holes than the Champions we
normally use....which built the pressure in the cooler loop up to 650psi! It
looks like the Champions will return the airplane to its normal behavior.
The coolers are bench tested to 400psi, and we've discovered that normal
pressure for that part of the oil system is about 200-250psi.
Oh, and the $2k environmental cleanup charge (to recover the 14 quarts of
oil spilled on the ramp), courtesy of Marin County Airports, was a real drag
too.
/John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97085#97085
__________ NOD32 2078 (20070223) Information __________
Message 10
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Engine Failure in N6253X |
Randy,
I went on line and found a IGSO-504 at Dodson if you need it.
http://www.dodson.com/engines_piston_lycoming.htm
What kind of cylinders did Morris use? New, rebuilt Lyc, or the new Superior
or EIC?
Tylor Hall
"Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer@charter.net> wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
The new cylinder was the outboard middle cylinder. The failed rod was
on the aft outboard cylinder (next to the new cylinder).
Thanks for your input.
RD
DettmerArchitecture
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of CloudCraft@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Failure in N6253X
In a message dated 24-Feb-07 08:56:00 Pacific Standard Time, rcdettmer@charter.net
writes:
Thought you guys might be interested in my situation.
That's an uderstatement! Good job on the O.E.I. approach, landing -- and the
really hard part -- taxi!
Between Morris and Dave Teeters, you're in good hands and the common denominator
does seem to be the new cylinders.
You didn't say if the rod failure was with one of the new jugs.
I've had bad piston rings on an IGSO-540 pressurize the case and blow oil, so
I'm going to vote for that theory -- but do let us know.
Tell Morris I say hello as I know you'll be in close contact with him the next
few days.
Wing Commander Gordon
---------------------------------
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free 4298082137/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com" 37/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom" target="_blank">AOL.com.
**************************************
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
- The Commander-List Email Forum -
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
- NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
--> http://forums.matronics.com
Message 11
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Fw: worlds smallest airplane |
If the FAA user-fees kick in, one would have one of few laughs by sending a
check for $0.02, huh?
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 9:52 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fw: worlds smallest airplane
If the Airline Transport Associate and the FAA get their way- that's about
all we'll all be able to afford to fly...
Robert S. Randazzo
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 23:54
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: worlds smallest airplane
Look at the bright side, if he messes up, there's little to clean up and the
collateral damage will be negligible.
----- Original Message -----
From: nico <mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com> css
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 11:09 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fw: worlds smallest airplane
Flying lawnmowers should be illegal.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: worlds smallest airplane
He probably meant this little fella here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlV8WJ6N3nU
Of course, anyone willing to fly that should probably have their certificate
revoked on general principle ;-).
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft@aol.com
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: worlds smallest airplane
So small, it's invisible! (At least via my email server.)
Wing Commander Gordon
_____
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from
AOL at AOL.com.
**************************************
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from
AOL at http://www.aol.com.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
__________ NOD32 2076 (20070222) Information __________
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
__________ NOD32 2076 (20070222) Information __________
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
__________ NOD32 2078 (20070223) Information __________
Message 12
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Engine Failure in N6253X |
Sorry to hear about your engines, Randy.
My hair stood on end imagining what I would think when the right engine is
the suspect one and the left one fails.
I bet the guys at SQL could kick themselves for having lost a bit of work
there, don't you think? But it's better that you are in good hands now.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Dettmer, AIA
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 8:52 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Engine Failure in N6253X
Had a rather exciting Thursday last week on a business trip in N6253X (my
beloved 680F). First leg of the trip was from SBP (San Luis Obispo, CA) to
SQL (San Carlos, CA) to visit two projects in the bay area. Upon arrival at
SQL we observed the right main gear / wheel, lower engine nacelle and wheel
well coated with oil. Checked the oil reservoir, and it showed one gallon
on the dipstick. We started out with approximately 4 gallons, so must have
lost 2-3 gallons during the one hour flight. Nothing could be observed on
the outside of the engine that would account for this oil loss. I was able
to get a local engine shop to tow the plane to their facility to look it
over while we conducted business in the bay area. Upon return from business
around 3 PM, the engine shop had not been able to look at the plane, nor
would they be able to look at it until the next day. Upon considerable
discussion, we decided to top off the oil at 5 gallons and fly the plane
home to SBP. It would be a short trip (about 45 minutes with strong tail
winds). We planned to monitor the right engine carefully, and if it showed
signs of trouble (loss of oil pressure, high CHT, etc) we would shut it down
and proceed home on one engine. About 20 minutes into the flight, level at
11,500, the right engine is running fine, however we noticed that the "left"
engine is showing drop in oil pressure with CHT's going up. We are thinking
"what's going on here..??". My co-pilot (and associate) Doug looks at the
left engine and it is spewing oil out from under the engine nacelle. I
immediately pull power back to about 20 inches on both engines, announce to
Norcal Approach that we are making an immediate landing at SNS (Salinas) and
point the nose down. The left CHT is staying in the green, and the oil
pressure is down to about 15 to 20 lbs. I am hoping to make it down without
losing the left engine. No such luck.about a minute later the left engine
seizes with a shudder, and I feather it. With the right engine still
suspect, I declare an emergency and we land without further incident at SNS.
I was actually able to taxi in to parking on one engine.not easy in a
Commander. Until the left engine seized, the CHT never left the green, and
the oil pressure remained at about 20 lbs.
The folks at SNS were great, along with Norcal approach and the tower in
handling our emergency. Checked oil levels in both engines.5 gals in the
right (no loss of oil in the 20 minute flight), empty in the left. Turns
out that the left engine threw a rod on the No. 6 cylinder, and blew a 5"
diameter hole in the top of the case. The airplane is now in the good hands
of Dave Teeters and Airmotive Specialties at SNS. Dave Teeters, Morris
Kernick (my Commander guru from Stockton) and I spent the better part of
Saturday in SNS poking around the airplane trying to determine the cause(s)
of the problems experienced on both engines. The airplane just came out of
annual (performed by Morris 5.5 hours ago) where 2 cylinders were replaced
on the right engine, and one cylinder was replaced on the left engine. The
theory on the table at this time is that we have a problem with the rings in
the new cylinders. Since we have found no sources of oil leaks on the
engines (blown out seals, broken hoses, loose clamps, etc) the only way for
the oil to leave the engine is through the breather. If the crankcase is
pressurized with combustion gases blown by the rings, the oil could be
pushed out the breather..?? The right engine has been cleaned and run, with
no loss of oil or oil leaks. The screens have been pulled and show lots of
metal. The left engine was removed from the airplane yesterday, and
cylinders will be pulled on Monday. We are very interested to see what the
rings and cylinders look like.
Thought you guys might be interested in my situation. It is certainly
curious that I did not experience any problems until 5.5 hours after the
annual. The facts are that "both" engines received new cylinders, "both"
engines experienced a major oil event, and both events occurred at the "same
time". Any thoughts you may have will be appreciated. I'll keep you all
informed of what we find in the coming days.
Randy Dettmer, AIA
680F/N6253X
DettmerArchitecture
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
Message 13
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Engine Failure in N6253X |
Thanks for the thought Nico. The shop in SNS is top notch. I am
lucky to have dropped out of the sky into such a capable
facility.
RD
DettmerArchitecture
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
nico css
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 3:15 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Failure in N6253X
Sorry to hear about your engines, Randy.
My hair stood on end imagining what I would think when the right
engine is the suspect one and the left one fails.
I bet the guys at SQL could kick themselves for having lost a bit
of work there, don't you think? But it's better that you are in
good hands now.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Randy Dettmer, AIA
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 8:52 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Engine Failure in N6253X
Had a rather exciting Thursday last week on a business trip in
N6253X (my beloved 680F). First leg of the trip was from SBP
(San Luis Obispo, CA) to SQL (San Carlos, CA) to visit two
projects in the bay area. Upon arrival at SQL we observed the
right main gear / wheel, lower engine nacelle and wheel well
coated with oil. Checked the oil reservoir, and it showed one
gallon on the dipstick. We started out with approximately 4
gallons, so must have lost 2-3 gallons during the one hour
flight. Nothing could be observed on the outside of the engine
that would account for this oil loss. I was able to get a local
engine shop to tow the plane to their facility to look it over
while we conducted business in the bay area. Upon return from
business around 3 PM, the engine shop had not been able to look
at the plane, nor would they be able to look at it until the next
day. Upon considerable discussion, we decided to top off the oil
at 5 gallons and fly the plane home to SBP. It would be a short
trip (about 45 minutes with strong tail winds). We planned to
monitor the right engine carefully, and if it showed signs of
trouble (loss of oil pressure, high CHT, etc) we would shut it
down and proceed home on one engine. About 20 minutes into the
flight, level at 11,500, the right engine is running fine,
however we noticed that the "left" engine is showing drop in oil
pressure with CHT's going up. We are thinking "what's going on
here..??". My co-pilot (and associate) Doug looks at the left
engine and it is spewing oil out from under the engine nacelle.
I immediately pull power back to about 20 inches on both engines,
announce to Norcal Approach that we are making an immediate
landing at SNS (Salinas) and point the nose down. The left CHT
is staying in the green, and the oil pressure is down to about 15
to 20 lbs. I am hoping to make it down without losing the left
engine. No such luck.about a minute later the left engine seizes
with a shudder, and I feather it. With the right engine still
suspect, I declare an emergency and we land without further
incident at SNS. I was actually able to taxi in to parking on
one engine.not easy in a Commander. Until the left engine
seized, the CHT never left the green, and the oil pressure
remained at about 20 lbs.
The folks at SNS were great, along with Norcal approach and the
tower in handling our emergency. Checked oil levels in both
engines.5 gals in the right (no loss of oil in the 20 minute
flight), empty in the left. Turns out that the left engine threw
a rod on the No. 6 cylinder, and blew a 5" diameter hole in the
top of the case. The airplane is now in the good hands of Dave
Teeters and Airmotive Specialties at SNS. Dave Teeters, Morris
Kernick (my Commander guru from Stockton) and I spent the better
part of Saturday in SNS poking around the airplane trying to
determine the cause(s) of the problems experienced on both
engines. The airplane just came out of annual (performed by
Morris 5.5 hours ago) where 2 cylinders were replaced on the
right engine, and one cylinder was replaced on the left engine.
The theory on the table at this time is that we have a problem
with the rings in the new cylinders. Since we have found no
sources of oil leaks on the engines (blown out seals, broken
hoses, loose clamps, etc) the only way for the oil to leave the
engine is through the breather. If the crankcase is pressurized
with combustion gases blown by the rings, the oil could be pushed
out the breather..?? The right engine has been cleaned and run,
with no loss of oil or oil leaks. The screens have been pulled
and show lots of metal. The left engine was removed from the
airplane yesterday, and cylinders will be pulled on Monday. We
are very interested to see what the rings and cylinders look
like.
Thought you guys might be interested in my situation. It is
certainly curious that I did not experience any problems until
5.5 hours after the annual. The facts are that "both" engines
received new cylinders, "both" engines experienced a major oil
event, and both events occurred at the "same time". Any thoughts
you may have will be appreciated. I'll keep you all informed of
what we find in the coming days.
Randy Dettmer, AIA
680F/N6253X
DettmerArchitecture
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 14
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Speaking of weird engine issues... |
rcdettmer(at)charter.net wrote:
> I'll trade your $2K clean-up for my $$$ engine replacement.
>
> RD
>
> DettmerArchitecture
> 663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
> 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
> www.dettmerarchitecture.com
>
> --
Ha, compared to you Randy, I got off easy, both in the financial and adrenaline
departments.
Robert, Marin County Airport (Gnoss Field) is surrounded on 3 sides by protected
wetlands and 4 sides by tree-hugging hippies. I'm as green as the next guy,
but $2,200 seems a little excessive for some Pig Blankets & Simple Green. I'll
do my best in the future to have any of these issues in the desert, where some
kid would come throw kitty litter on the spill & that's the last I'd hear of
it.
/John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97133#97133
Message 15
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Speaking of weird engine issues... |
I don't want to drift into unpleasant territory here with that cross-wind,
but if folks would vote and vote right we might stop this nonsense. Ordinary
folks do not have the time or inclination to be activists, so it takes time
for them to realize that they got bamboozled.
>-----------------------
Ha, compared to you Randy, I got off easy, both in the financial and
adrenaline departments.
Robert, Marin County Airport (Gnoss Field) is surrounded on 3 sides by
protected wetlands and 4 sides by tree-hugging hippies. I'm as green as the
next guy, but $2,200 seems a little excessive for some Pig Blankets & Simple
Green. I'll do my best in the future to have any of these issues in the
desert, where some kid would come throw kitty litter on the spill & that's
the last I'd hear of it.
/John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97133#97133
Message 16
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Speaking of weird engine issues... |
A few years ago some guys that I know did crash a Metro Liner out in the
Desert (everyone walked away), and as I remember the clean up costs were
about $ 40,000.00....federal land don't you know.
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 4:00 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Speaking of weird engine issues...
rcdettmer(at)charter.net wrote:
> I'll trade your $2K clean-up for my $$$ engine replacement.
>
> RD
>
> DettmerArchitecture
> 663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
> 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
> www.dettmerarchitecture.com
>
> --
Ha, compared to you Randy, I got off easy, both in the financial and
adrenaline departments.
Robert, Marin County Airport (Gnoss Field) is surrounded on 3 sides by
protected wetlands and 4 sides by tree-hugging hippies. I'm as green as the
next guy, but $2,200 seems a little excessive for some Pig Blankets & Simple
Green. I'll do my best in the future to have any of these issues in the
desert, where some kid would come throw kitty litter on the spill & that's
the last I'd hear of it.
/John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97133#97133
Message 17
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi Harry, how much do you want for the switch?=0AThank you,=0A=0A =0ADonnie
Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Ha
rry Merritt <avtec2@bellsouth.net>=0ATo: commander-list@matronics.com=0ASen
t: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:12:05 AM=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: S
witch=0A=0A=0AI Have the Switch=0AHarry=0A321 267-3141=0A----- Original Mes
sage ----- =0AFrom: BillLeff1@aol.com =0ATo: commander-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 8:27 PM=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List:
Switch=0A=0A=0ATry Lance Aircraft in Dallas. They supply parts for AT-6's
and I know they have AN3022-10's. They may have the -11's also. It is just
a momentary contact version of that series. The AN3022-10 is part of the th
rottle switch assembly p/n 34A6066 on a T-6G=0ATheir number is 800-752-4005
=0A =0ABill Leff=0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Command
er-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List=0Ahref="http:/
========================0A=0A
=0A =0A____________________________________________________________________
________________=0ANo need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go =0Awith Y
ahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.=0Ahttp://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
Message 18
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Speaking of weird engine issues... |
In a message dated 2/24/2007 12:33:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rsrandazzo@precisionmanuals.com writes:
I'm not sure I'd want to live in a place like that....
Im sure I DONT WANT TO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. jb
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|