Commander-List Digest Archive

Sun 02/25/07


Total Messages Posted: 3



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:48 PM - Re: Engine Failure in N6253X (Bill Bow)
     2. 12:48 PM - Re: Re: Speaking of weird engine issues... (Bill Bow)
     3. 01:08 PM - Re: Engine Failure in N6253X (MASON CHEVAILLIER)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:48:45 PM PST US
    From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Engine Failure in N6253X
    Nice job Randy. bilbo _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Dettmer, AIA Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 11:52 AM Subject: Commander-List: Engine Failure in N6253X Had a rather exciting Thursday last week on a business trip in N6253X (my beloved 680F). First leg of the trip was from SBP (San Luis Obispo, CA) to SQL (San Carlos, CA) to visit two projects in the bay area. Upon arrival at SQL we observed the right main gear / wheel, lower engine nacelle and wheel well coated with oil. Checked the oil reservoir, and it showed one gallon on the dipstick. We started out with approximately 4 gallons, so must have lost 2-3 gallons during the one hour flight. Nothing could be observed on the outside of the engine that would account for this oil loss. I was able to get a local engine shop to tow the plane to their facility to look it over while we conducted business in the bay area. Upon return from business around 3 PM, the engine shop had not been able to look at the plane, nor would they be able to look at it until the next day. Upon considerable discussion, we decided to top off the oil at 5 gallons and fly the plane home to SBP. It would be a short trip (about 45 minutes with strong tail winds). We planned to monitor the right engine carefully, and if it showed signs of trouble (loss of oil pressure, high CHT, etc) we would shut it down and proceed home on one engine. About 20 minutes into the flight, level at 11,500, the right engine is running fine, however we noticed that the "left" engine is showing drop in oil pressure with CHT's going up. We are thinking "what's going on here..??". My co-pilot (and associate) Doug looks at the left engine and it is spewing oil out from under the engine nacelle. I immediately pull power back to about 20 inches on both engines, announce to Norcal Approach that we are making an immediate landing at SNS (Salinas) and point the nose down. The left CHT is staying in the green, and the oil pressure is down to about 15 to 20 lbs. I am hoping to make it down without losing the left engine. No such luck.about a minute later the left engine seizes with a shudder, and I feather it. With the right engine still suspect, I declare an emergency and we land without further incident at SNS. I was actually able to taxi in to parking on one engine.not easy in a Commander. Until the left engine seized, the CHT never left the green, and the oil pressure remained at about 20 lbs. The folks at SNS were great, along with Norcal approach and the tower in handling our emergency. Checked oil levels in both engines.5 gals in the right (no loss of oil in the 20 minute flight), empty in the left. Turns out that the left engine threw a rod on the No. 6 cylinder, and blew a 5" diameter hole in the top of the case. The airplane is now in the good hands of Dave Teeters and Airmotive Specialties at SNS. Dave Teeters, Morris Kernick (my Commander guru from Stockton) and I spent the better part of Saturday in SNS poking around the airplane trying to determine the cause(s) of the problems experienced on both engines. The airplane just came out of annual (performed by Morris 5.5 hours ago) where 2 cylinders were replaced on the right engine, and one cylinder was replaced on the left engine. The theory on the table at this time is that we have a problem with the rings in the new cylinders. Since we have found no sources of oil leaks on the engines (blown out seals, broken hoses, loose clamps, etc) the only way for the oil to leave the engine is through the breather. If the crankcase is pressurized with combustion gases blown by the rings, the oil could be pushed out the breather..?? The right engine has been cleaned and run, with no loss of oil or oil leaks. The screens have been pulled and show lots of metal. The left engine was removed from the airplane yesterday, and cylinders will be pulled on Monday. We are very interested to see what the rings and cylinders look like. Thought you guys might be interested in my situation. It is certainly curious that I did not experience any problems until 5.5 hours after the annual. The facts are that "both" engines received new cylinders, "both" engines experienced a major oil event, and both events occurred at the "same time". Any thoughts you may have will be appreciated. I'll keep you all informed of what we find in the coming days. Randy Dettmer, AIA 680F/N6253X DettmerArchitecture 663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com


    Message 2


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    Time: 12:48:46 PM PST US
    From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Speaking of weird engine issues...
    The joys of living in the country of California. bilbo -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 7:12 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Speaking of weird engine issues... I don't want to drift into unpleasant territory here with that cross-wind, but if folks would vote and vote right we might stop this nonsense. Ordinary folks do not have the time or inclination to be activists, so it takes time for them to realize that they got bamboozled. >----------------------- Ha, compared to you Randy, I got off easy, both in the financial and adrenaline departments. Robert, Marin County Airport (Gnoss Field) is surrounded on 3 sides by protected wetlands and 4 sides by tree-hugging hippies. I'm as green as the next guy, but $2,200 seems a little excessive for some Pig Blankets & Simple Green. I'll do my best in the future to have any of these issues in the desert, where some kid would come throw kitty litter on the spill & that's the last I'd hear of it. /John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97133#97133


    Message 3


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    Time: 01:08:35 PM PST US
    From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <kamala@MSN.COM>
    Subject: Re: Engine Failure in N6253X
    you just have to love these planes. mason ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Bow<mailto:bowing74@earthlink.net> To: commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 2:45 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Failure in N6253X Nice job Randy. bilbo ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-commander-list-ser ver@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Dettmer, AIA Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 11:52 AM To: Commander Chat Subject: Commander-List: Engine Failure in N6253X Had a rather exciting Thursday last week on a business trip in N6253X (my beloved 680F). First leg of the trip was from SBP (San Luis Obispo, CA) to SQL (San Carlos, CA) to visit two projects in the bay area. Upon arrival at SQL we observed the right main gear / wheel, lower engine nacelle and wheel well coated with oil. Checked the oil reservoir, and it showed one gallon on the dipstick. We started out with approximately 4 gallons, so must have lost 2-3 gallons during the one hour flight. Nothing could be observed on the outside of the engine that would account for this oil loss. I was able to get a local engine shop to tow the plane to their facility to look it over while we conducted business in the bay area. Upon return from business around 3 PM, the engine shop had not been able to look at the plane, nor would they be able to look at it until the next day. Upon considerable discussion, we decided to top off the oil at 5 gallons and fly the plane home to SBP. It would be a short trip (about 45 minutes with strong tail winds). We planned to monitor the right engine carefully, and if it showed signs of trouble (loss of oil pressure, high CHT, etc) we would shut it down and proceed home on one engine. About 20 minutes into the flight, level at 11,500, the right engine is running fine, however we noticed that the "left" engine is showing drop in oil pressure with CHT's going up. We are thinking "what's going on here..??". My co-pilot (and associate) Doug looks at the left engine and it is spewing oil out from under the engine nacelle. I immediately pull power back to about 20 inches on both engines, announce to Norcal Approach that we are making an immediate landing at SNS (Salinas) and point the nose down. The left CHT is staying in the green, and the oil pressure is down to about 15 to 20 lbs. I am hoping to make it down without losing the left engine. No such luck.about a minute later the left engine seizes with a shudder, and I feather it. With the right engine still suspect, I declare an emergency and we land without further incident at SNS. I was actually able to taxi in to parking on one engine.not easy in a Commander. Until the left engine seized, the CHT never left the green, and the oil pressure remained at about 20 lbs. The folks at SNS were great, along with Norcal approach and the tower in handling our emergency. Checked oil levels in both engines.5 gals in the right (no loss of oil in the 20 minute flight), empty in the left. Turns out that the left engine threw a rod on the No. 6 cylinder, and blew a 5" diameter hole in the top of the case. The airplane is now in the good hands of Dave Teeters and Airmotive Specialties at SNS. Dave Teeters, Morris Kernick (my Commander guru from Stockton) and I spent the better part of Saturday in SNS poking around the airplane trying to determine the cause(s) of the problems experienced on both engines. The airplane just came out of annual (performed by Morris 5.5 hours ago) where 2 cylinders were replaced on the right engine, and one cylinder was replaced on the left engine. The theory on the table at this time is that we have a problem with the rings in the new cylinders. Since we have found no sources of oil leaks on the engines (blown out seals, broken hoses, loose clamps, etc) the only way for the oil to leave the engine is through the breather. If the crankcase is pressurized with combustion gases blown by the rings, the oil could be pushed out the breather..?? The right engine has been cleaned and run, with no loss of oil or oil leaks. The screens have been pulled and show lots of metal. The left engine was removed from the airplane yesterday, and cylinders will be pulled on Monday. We are very interested to see what the rings and cylinders look like. Thought you guys might be interested in my situation. It is certainly curious that I did not experience any problems until 5.5 hours after the annual. The facts are that "both" engines received new cylinders, "both" engines experienced a major oil event, and both events occurred at the "same time". Any thoughts you may have will be appreciated. I'll keep you all informed of what we find in the coming days. Randy Dettmer, AIA 680F/N6253X DettmerArchitecture 663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List<http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Commander-List>




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