Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:06 AM - Re: Re: Servo Failure (Steve)
2. 06:53 AM - Re: Commanders in business (nico css)
3. 08:37 AM - Re: Commanders in business (David Owens)
4. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: Servo Failure (John Vormbaum)
5. 09:19 AM - Re: Commanders in business (John Vormbaum)
6. 12:18 PM - Re: Commanders in business (Steve)
7. 12:56 PM - Re: Commanders in business (nico css)
8. 01:00 PM - Re: Commanders in business (David Owens)
9. 01:42 PM - Re: Commanders in business (Steve)
10. 02:14 PM - Re: Commanders in business (David Owens)
11. 02:41 PM - Re: Orenda Rises Again (skyhawkc-172@comcast.net)
12. 03:30 PM - Caravelles, Was: Commanders in business (BobsV35B@aol.com)
13. 05:23 PM - Re: Commanders in business (Steven)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Servo Failure |
John,
If you're reading this, did you see the servo data is up on the web-site?
www.col-east.com
We got power back, but no email at home and I believe you had sent me mail
interested in a copy. Just wanted to follow-up and I don't know when we'll
have our phone back for the modem.
Aside from the computer, we don't really miss the phone much.
Steve Welebny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven" <steve2@sover.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
>
> John,
>
> I've got a pretty good article on the Bendix servo. Monday I can scan the
> thing and post it to our company's website.
>
> If the fuel boost pump pressure and the engine fuel pump pressure were
> about the same, I can't see that the servo should care which one is
> feeding it. (For the single speed IO-540 pumps).
>
>>From what I understand (and it's limited) the servo is set up on the bench
> for normal aircraft fuel pressure.
>
> All things being equal, if you change the ship's fuel pressure, you change
> the fuel flow. For example at W.O.T, setting the engine driven fuel pump
> pressure up and down will have a direct relationship to the fuel flow. The
> last 'rebuild' on our servo came back twice with a wide open throttle fuel
> flow lower than what we hoped to see. The second time was better, but we
> compensated somewhat by running slightly higher fuel pressure on the right
> side.
>
> With this last rebuild it's finally right, but with us running the right
> engine fuel pressure toward the high end of the green arc, the WOT fuel
> flow was now too high, and the ship's fuel pressure was dropped back to
> the middle of standard.
>
> On the IO-540's the 'fuel flow' isn't really a measure of flow, but
> another measure of pressure, this time at the fuel distribution spider.
> Plug an injector and it would appear you've got more flow, when all you've
> got is really more pressure.
>
> Also keep in mind with these servos that with differential pressures being
> used, some of the failure modes are fuel crossing to places it shouldn't
> ought to be.
>
> I think everything I said is true.
>
> Steve
>
>
> Also Robert, keep in mind that you're flying a Continental-powered
> Commander, so you have low & high boost pump settings. Us Lyc-powered guys
> only have "on" and "off" :-).
>
> And Steve, the theories sound good. I wonder what effect the failure of an
> engine-driven pump would have on the fuel pressure? Is the servo
> self-regulating or is the EDP always the first link in the fuel pressure
> management process? Being just the guy who pushes the levers around in the
> cockpit, I'm probably light on the more esoteric points of the IO-540's
> systems. Perhaps it's time to rectify that.
>
> I'm going to dig around and see if I can find any articles or other
> documentation on boost-pump-related engine floodings on approach. I've
> seen
> ONE story along those lines related to Commanders, but I don't remember
> which model the author was flying. I want to assume a 500A or 685 because
> of
> all the Bonanza-specific issues I've heard about with the hi/lo boost pump
> settings & engine floodings, but I don't know that the Lycs are immune to
> similar occurence.
>
> /J
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Commanders in business |
Is this anyone on the list's company?
www.col-east.com
Nico
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Commanders in business |
Obviously a mapping company similar to ours... compare at
www.aerialviewpoint.com
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Servo Failure |
Steve,
Thanks for the article, I downloaded it but haven't read it yet.
Sure hope you guys get some relief today...the last few days have been
rough! My 89-yr-old grandmother lives on the north coast of Long Island and
she had 18" of water in the basement on tuesday....
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve" <steve2@sover.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 5:05 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
>
> John,
>
> If you're reading this, did you see the servo data is up on the web-site?
> www.col-east.com
>
> We got power back, but no email at home and I believe you had sent me mail
> interested in a copy. Just wanted to follow-up and I don't know when we'll
> have our phone back for the modem.
>
> Aside from the computer, we don't really miss the phone much.
>
> Steve Welebny
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven" <steve2@sover.net>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 7:11 AM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Servo Failure
>
>
>>
>> John,
>>
>> I've got a pretty good article on the Bendix servo. Monday I can scan the
>> thing and post it to our company's website.
>>
>> If the fuel boost pump pressure and the engine fuel pump pressure were
>> about the same, I can't see that the servo should care which one is
>> feeding it. (For the single speed IO-540 pumps).
>>
>>>From what I understand (and it's limited) the servo is set up on the
>>>bench
>> for normal aircraft fuel pressure.
>>
>> All things being equal, if you change the ship's fuel pressure, you
>> change the fuel flow. For example at W.O.T, setting the engine driven
>> fuel pump pressure up and down will have a direct relationship to the
>> fuel flow. The last 'rebuild' on our servo came back twice with a wide
>> open throttle fuel flow lower than what we hoped to see. The second time
>> was better, but we compensated somewhat by running slightly higher fuel
>> pressure on the right side.
>>
>> With this last rebuild it's finally right, but with us running the right
>> engine fuel pressure toward the high end of the green arc, the WOT fuel
>> flow was now too high, and the ship's fuel pressure was dropped back to
>> the middle of standard.
>>
>> On the IO-540's the 'fuel flow' isn't really a measure of flow, but
>> another measure of pressure, this time at the fuel distribution spider.
>> Plug an injector and it would appear you've got more flow, when all
>> you've got is really more pressure.
>>
>> Also keep in mind with these servos that with differential pressures
>> being used, some of the failure modes are fuel crossing to places it
>> shouldn't ought to be.
>>
>> I think everything I said is true.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> Also Robert, keep in mind that you're flying a Continental-powered
>> Commander, so you have low & high boost pump settings. Us Lyc-powered
>> guys
>> only have "on" and "off" :-).
>>
>> And Steve, the theories sound good. I wonder what effect the failure of
>> an
>> engine-driven pump would have on the fuel pressure? Is the servo
>> self-regulating or is the EDP always the first link in the fuel pressure
>> management process? Being just the guy who pushes the levers around in
>> the
>> cockpit, I'm probably light on the more esoteric points of the IO-540's
>> systems. Perhaps it's time to rectify that.
>>
>> I'm going to dig around and see if I can find any articles or other
>> documentation on boost-pump-related engine floodings on approach. I've
>> seen
>> ONE story along those lines related to Commanders, but I don't remember
>> which model the author was flying. I want to assume a 500A or 685 because
>> of
>> all the Bonanza-specific issues I've heard about with the hi/lo boost
>> pump
>> settings & engine floodings, but I don't know that the Lycs are immune to
>> similar occurence.
>>
>> /J
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2203 (20070419) Information __________
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2203 (20070419) Information __________
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Commanders in business |
Yes, it belongs to Steve Welebny, the guy who kindly posted the Bendix
pressure carb article for us!
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 6:52 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Commanders in business
Is this anyone on the list's company?
www.col-east.com
Nico
__________ NOD32 2203 (20070419) Information __________
__________ NOD32 2203 (20070419) Information __________
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Commanders in business |
Yeah, it's us......
We run a 500B with a big hole in the bottom for the camera. I'm just
getting back this afternoon from NH and Burlington VT. Best photo of our
Commander on the web is by some 'plane spotter' that never answered my
email.
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=N6157X&distinct_
entry=true
Some time back, you and me Nico had a small difference of opinion on a
small political matter that I hoped you never took personally.
Steve
Steven T. Welebny, C.P.
Certified Photogrammetrist
Col-East, Inc.
Harriman & West Airport, North Adams MA 01247
800-FLY-TOPO x 209 (voice) 413-663-3489 (fax)
swelebny(AT)coleast.com www.coleast.com
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:52 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Commanders in business
Is this anyone on the list's company?
www.col-east.com
Nico
Message 7
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| Subject: | Commanders in business |
Heck, no, Steve, I don't remember, so I couldn't have taken it personally.
:-)
Back in the early 60's I worked in a cartography office when scribing on
stabelene was the thing to do. We worked off photogrammetary (?) plotters
where I was introduced to stereo photography, mapping, and the rest, so it
was quite a trip for me to see your and David Owens' sites.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commanders in business
Yeah, it's us......
We run a 500B with a big hole in the bottom for the camera. I'm just getting
back this afternoon from NH and Burlington VT. Best photo of our Commander
on the web is by some 'plane spotter' that never answered my email.
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=N6157X
<http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=N6157X&distinct_entr
y=true> &distinct_entry=true
Some time back, you and me Nico had a small difference of opinion on a small
political matter that I hoped you never took personally.
Steve
Steven T. Welebny, C.P.
Certified Photogrammetrist
Col-East, Inc.
Harriman & West Airport, North Adams MA 01247
800-FLY-TOPO x 209 (voice) 413-663-3489 (fax)
<mailto:swelebny@coleast.com> swelebny <mailto:swelebny@coleast.com>
(AT)coleast.com <http://www.coleast.com/> www.coleast.com
----- Original Message -----
From: nico <mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com> css
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:52 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Commanders in business
Is this anyone on the list's company?
www.col-east.com
Nico
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Commanders in business |
Go to http://www.pimaair.org/Acftdatapics/Sud%20Caravelle.htm to see
whats left of the fleet of the company we merged with in 96... A
dreadful shame...
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Commanders in business |
Well that's good Nico. Nobody right, left or center seems to be doing a
very good job of it.
In some ways the discipline of photogrammetry hasn't changed all that
much. It's the same science, the same math. But instead of those
beautiful old stereoplotters drawing onto mylar, or scribing onto media,
the images are now viewed on a computer screen with 3D glasses. The
lines and symbols are stored as computer drawing elements.
Imagine a contour map draped over a 3D image of the ground. Pretty neat
stuff. The camera nowadays is a about three quarters of a million bucks.
New digital ones go for a million. Gyro-stabilized mount, forward motion
compensation. We're scanning directly from the film at down to 8
microns. A color image at 12 microns is 1 gigabyte of information.
We get to play with some great stuff.
If you worked with this stuff in the 60's, I bet it wouldn't take long
at all to get back in the saddle once you got over being wowed by the
technology.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 3:56 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Commanders in business
Heck, no, Steve, I don't remember, so I couldn't have taken it
personally. :-)
Back in the early 60's I worked in a cartography office when scribing
on stabelene was the thing to do. We worked off photogrammetary (?)
plotters where I was introduced to stereo photography, mapping, and the
rest, so it was quite a trip for me to see your and David Owens' sites.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 12:17 PM
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commanders in business
Yeah, it's us......
We run a 500B with a big hole in the bottom for the camera. I'm just
getting back this afternoon from NH and Burlington VT. Best photo of our
Commander on the web is by some 'plane spotter' that never answered my
email.
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=N6157X&distinct_
entry=true
Some time back, you and me Nico had a small difference of opinion on a
small political matter that I hoped you never took personally.
Steve
Steven T. Welebny, C.P.
Certified Photogrammetrist
Col-East, Inc.
Harriman & West Airport, North Adams MA 01247
800-FLY-TOPO x 209 (voice) 413-663-3489 (fax)
swelebny(AT)coleast.com www.coleast.com
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:52 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Commanders in business
Is this anyone on the list's company?
www.col-east.com
Nico
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Commanders in business |
Here Here... 1.2 gigs on the 12.5 micron scans... Fast computer and
really expensive software is a must. We use dual monitors and Leica
software for the orthos, and the Photoshop touch never hurts either :)
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Orenda Rises Again |
Found this in a google search of Orenda
http://www.epi-eng.com/CNV-at401.htm
600 HP a side ? 500 series commander might need a few addon's due to 600HP, maybee
the installation of a G meter.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Deneal Schilmeister <deneals@deneals.com>
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/845-full.html#194933
Orenda Rises Again
A Midland, Texas, company has received FAA approval to take over the engine type
certificate for the Orenda OE600A, a Canadian-developed, 600-hp V-8 based on
a big-block Chevy engine. The granting of the type certificate transfer from
the former Canadian owners allows Trace Engines to begin shipping engines, including
the 10 finished mills it inherited in the takeover of the project. Two
engines were shipped, ironically, to Canada last week and are expected to be flying
by the end of the month. The Texas plant wont likely build its first engine
until September. "Because this is a start-up, we have the opportunity to do
things right the first time," spokesman Craig Hoover told the Midland Reporter-Telegram.
"We have an active research and development program. There are things
we want to improve on the engines even before we begin production." The big
recips are aimed at replacing far more expensive small turboprops on a variety
of light and business aircraft. They were develo
ped ab
out 20 years ago in Canada, but despite gaining certification were not widely installed.
Hoover said his company aims to change that and he expects a lot of
foreign orders. There are 12 people working at Trace now, but plans are to increase
that tenfold and incorporate a college training program into the factory.
<html><body>
<DIV>Found this in a google search of Orenda</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.epi-eng.com/CNV-at401.htm">http://www.epi-eng.com/CNV-at401.htm</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>600 HP a side ? 500 series commander might need a few addon's due
to 600HP, maybee the installation of a G meter.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: Deneal Schilmeister <deneals@deneals.com> <BR><FONT size=4><FONT face="Lucida Grande"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13px"><A href="http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/845-full.html#194933">http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/845-full.html#194933</A><BR><BR>Orenda Rises Again<BR><BR>A Midland, Texas, company has received FAA approval to take over the engine type certificate for the Orenda OE600A, a Canadian-developed, 600-hp V-8 based on a big-block Chevy engine. The granting of the type certificate transfer from the former Canadian owners allows Trace Engines to begin shipping engines, including the 10 finished mills it inherited in the takeover of the project. Two engines were shipped, ironically, to Canada last week and are expected to be flying by the end of the month. The Texas plant wont likely build its fir
st eng
ine until September. "Because this is a start-up, we have the opportunity to do
things right the first time," spokesman Craig Hoover told the Midland Reporter-Telegram.
"We have an active research and development program. There are things
we want to improve on the engines even before we begin production." The big
recips are aimed at replacing far more expensive small turboprops on a variety
of light and business aircraft. They were developed about 20 years ago in Canada,
but despite gaining certification were not widely installed. Hoover said
his company aims to change that and he expects a lot of foreign orders. There
are 12 people working at Trace now, but plans are to increase that tenfold and
incorporate a college training program into the factory.</SPAN></FONT></FONT>
<PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" size=2 color000000?>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Commanders in business |
Good Afternoon David,
The caption on that photo says it is N1001U.
If that is the original registration number, I have flown that airplane many
enjoyable hours. I took my rating ride in N1009U and our company owned
N1001U through and including N1020U. We bought twenty of them and sold twenty of
them. Always a pleasure when that happens!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 4/19/2007 3:03:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
dowens@aerialviewpoint.com writes:
Go to _http://www.pimaair.org/Acftdatapics/Sud%20Caravelle.htm_
(http://www.pimaair.org/Acftdatapics/Sud%20Caravelle.htm) to see what's left of the
fleet of the company we merged with in 96... A dreadful shame...
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Commanders in business |
No matter how hard we try we can't keep the color 12 micron scans clean
enough not to need Photoshop to clean a lot of dust bunnies from the
orthos. B&W is ok, but I have been discouraging flying the color orthos
such that we need 12 micron scans to do them. Been preferring to fly
them lower, and use more images. For the other folks, the scans of
images are looking at things so small that near microscopic dust
particles are a real pain.
Looks like a run of good weather is hitting New England, so we hope to
be airborne the next couple days. This looks to be shaping up to be one
of the shortest flying seasons on record around here.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: David Owens
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commanders in business
Here Here... 1.2 gigs on the 12.5 micron scans... Fast computer and
really expensive software is a must. We use dual monitors and Leica
software for the orthos, and the Photoshop touch never hurts either :)
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
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