---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/09/07: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:31 AM - Craziest Cessna crash (nico css) 2. 09:12 AM - Engine Cough? (Matthew J. Hawkins) 3. 09:54 AM - Re: Engine Cough? (Steve at Col-East) 4. 10:21 AM - Re: Craziest Cessna crash (John Vormbaum) 5. 10:28 AM - Re: Engine Cough? [bcc][faked-from] (Brock Lorber) 6. 10:45 AM - Re: Engine Cough? [bcc][faked-from] (Matthew J. Hawkins) 7. 11:31 AM - Re: Craziest Cessna crash (nico css) 8. 11:32 AM - Re: Craziest Cessna crash (nico css) 9. 12:03 PM - Re: Craziest Cessna crash (Don Girod) 10. 12:03 PM - Re: Craziest Cessna crash (John Vormbaum) 11. 12:56 PM - Re: Craziest Cessna crash (Correct link now, sorry about that) (nico css) 12. 03:20 PM - Re: Re: Craziest Cessna crash (Correct link now, sorry about that) (Bill Bow) 13. 04:05 PM - Re: Engine Cough? (Steve @ Col-East) 14. 04:39 PM - Re: Engine Cough? (Gary Moshluk) 15. 05:32 PM - fly in (Donnie Rose) 16. 08:34 PM - Fw: Hangar Hotel update (yourtcfg@aol.com) 17. 11:48 PM - Re: Craziest Cessna crash (Robert S. Randazzo) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:31:54 AM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash This is the craziest I've ever seen. http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/903-full.html#195584 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:53 AM PST US From: "Matthew J. Hawkins" Subject: Commander-List: Engine Cough? All- We're having a minor intermittent problem on the left engine of N2760B. They are Lycoming G0-480-DIA's. Geared engine with pressure carburetors. When reducing power, the engine will cough/sputter as soon as it hit's 21" of manifold pressure. Doesn't quit - just skips and runs a bit rough. Doesn't happen when increasing power. All gauge reading in the green - nothing obvious. About 15 hours on the engines since major overhaul. Did not happen during first 10-12hrs - started during past couple of flights. Won't happen every time - but about 75% of the time. Just a little disconcerting on final! Any thoughts? Matt ******************** Matthew Hawkins Director, Marine Ops R/V HUGH R. SHARP 302-645-4341 FAX: 302-645-4006 hawkins@udel.edu ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:02 AM PST US From: "Steve at Col-East" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Cough? Induction leak? Loose induction tube (not seated right), or cracked flange on a tube? I'll quit speculating. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew J. Hawkins" Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:07 PM Subject: Commander-List: Engine Cough? > > > All- > > We're having a minor intermittent problem on the left engine of N2760B. > They are Lycoming G0-480-DIA's. Geared engine with pressure carburetors. > > When reducing power, the engine will cough/sputter as soon as it hit's 21" > of manifold pressure. Doesn't quit - just skips and runs a bit rough. > > Doesn't happen when increasing power. > > All gauge reading in the green - nothing obvious. > > About 15 hours on the engines since major overhaul. Did not happen during > first 10-12hrs - started during past couple of flights. Won't happen > every time - but about 75% of the time. Just a little disconcerting on > final! > > Any thoughts? > > Matt > > ******************** > Matthew Hawkins > Director, Marine Ops > R/V HUGH R. SHARP > 302-645-4341 > FAX: 302-645-4006 > hawkins@udel.edu > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:21:25 AM PST US From: "John Vormbaum" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash Runaway trim is pretty scary. The Monday morning quarterbacking session yielded a solid response; instead of pulling breakers, shutting off the master evidently disables all trim function and the airplane can still be flown. I really wish it had worked out for that medical team, it's a double tragedy to lose a team of lifesavers like that... /John ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:28 AM Subject: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash This is the craziest I've ever seen. http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/903-full.html#195584 __________ NOD32 2384 (20070708) Information __________ __________ NOD32 2384 (20070708) Information __________ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:28:19 AM PST US Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Cough? [bcc][faked-from] From: "Brock Lorber" Too rich? -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Steve at Col-East Sent: Mon 7/9/2007 9:49 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Cough? [bcc][faked-from] Induction leak? Loose induction tube (not seated right), or cracked flange on a tube? I'll quit speculating. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew J. Hawkins" Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:07 PM Subject: Commander-List: Engine Cough? > > > All- > > We're having a minor intermittent problem on the left engine of N2760B. > They are Lycoming G0-480-DIA's. Geared engine with pressure carburetors. > > When reducing power, the engine will cough/sputter as soon as it hit's 21" > of manifold pressure. Doesn't quit - just skips and runs a bit rough. > > Doesn't happen when increasing power. > > All gauge reading in the green - nothing obvious. > > About 15 hours on the engines since major overhaul. Did not happen during > first 10-12hrs - started during past couple of flights. Won't happen > every time - but about 75% of the time. Just a little disconcerting on > final! > > Any thoughts? > > Matt > > ******************** > Matthew Hawkins > Director, Marine Ops > R/V HUGH R. SHARP > 302-645-4341 > FAX: 302-645-4006 > hawkins@udel.edu > > > 3D======================== 3D========= 3D======================== 3D========= 3D======================== 3D========= ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:45:55 AM PST US From: "Matthew J. Hawkins" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Cough? [bcc][faked-from] Maybe - thanks, we'll check that too - as well as for induction leaks again. Glad you're all at least suggesting minor things so far! That was our hope. Matt -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brock Lorber Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 1:25 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Cough? [bcc][faked-from] Too rich? -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Steve at Col-East Sent: Mon 7/9/2007 9:49 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Cough? [bcc][faked-from] --> Induction leak? Loose induction tube (not seated right), or cracked flange on a tube? I'll quit speculating. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew J. Hawkins" Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:07 PM Subject: Commander-List: Engine Cough? > > > All- > > We're having a minor intermittent problem on the left engine of > N2760B. They are Lycoming G0-480-DIA's. Geared engine with pressure > carburetors. > > When reducing power, the engine will cough/sputter as soon as it hit's > 21" of manifold pressure. Doesn't quit - just skips and runs a bit > rough. > > Doesn't happen when increasing power. > > All gauge reading in the green - nothing obvious. > > About 15 hours on the engines since major overhaul. Did not happen > during first 10-12hrs - started during past couple of flights. Won't > happen every time - but about 75% of the time. Just a little > disconcerting on final! > > Any thoughts? > > Matt > > ******************** > Matthew Hawkins > Director, Marine Ops > R/V HUGH R. SHARP > 302-645-4341 > FAX: 302-645-4006 > hawkins@udel.edu > > 3D======================== 3D========= 3D======================== 3D========= 3D======================== 3D========= ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:31:54 AM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash How would you know you would remember shutting off the master when there are only a few seconds left? Training for such an emergency in a simulator would be a good starting point, I guess. You still wouldn't know, would you? _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 10:19 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash Runaway trim is pretty scary. The Monday morning quarterbacking session yielded a solid response; instead of pulling breakers, shutting off the master evidently disables all trim function and the airplane can still be flown. I really wish it had worked out for that medical team, it's a double tragedy to lose a team of lifesavers like that... /John ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:28 AM Subject: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash This is the craziest I've ever seen. http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/903-full.html#195584 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com __________ NOD32 2384 (20070708) Information __________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:32:26 AM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash How would you know you would remember shutting off the master when there are only a few seconds left? Training for such an emergency in a simulator would be a good starting point, I guess. You still wouldn't know, would you? _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 10:19 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash Runaway trim is pretty scary. The Monday morning quarterbacking session yielded a solid response; instead of pulling breakers, shutting off the master evidently disables all trim function and the airplane can still be flown. I really wish it had worked out for that medical team, it's a double tragedy to lose a team of lifesavers like that... /John ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:28 AM Subject: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash This is the craziest I've ever seen. http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/903-full.html#195584 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com __________ NOD32 2384 (20070708) Information __________ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:35 PM PST US From: "Don Girod" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash All the commercial aircraft I have flown that had an electric trim also had a 'brake', pull the yoke in the opposite direction of the run away trim and the brake engages, then turn off the electric trim. A maneuver that you get every simulator session. But I never had one in real life, which is good. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 2:26 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash How would you know you would remember shutting off the master when there are only a few seconds left? Training for such an emergency in a simulator would be a good starting point, I guess. You still wouldn't know, would you? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 10:19 AM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash Runaway trim is pretty scary. The Monday morning quarterbacking session yielded a solid response; instead of pulling breakers, shutting off the master evidently disables all trim function and the airplane can still be flown. I really wish it had worked out for that medical team, it's a double tragedy to lose a team of lifesavers like that... /John ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:28 AM Subject: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash This is the craziest I've ever seen. http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/903-full.html#195584 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com __________ NOD32 2384 (20070708) Information __________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 7/8/2007 6:32 PM ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:50 PM PST US From: "John Vormbaum" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash I don't know that I would remember. That's a failure mode that's hard to survive under any circumstances, having an airplane you're suddenly unable to control.... ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 11:26 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash How would you know you would remember shutting off the master when there are only a few seconds left? Training for such an emergency in a simulator would be a good starting point, I guess. You still wouldn't know, would you? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 10:19 AM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash Runaway trim is pretty scary. The Monday morning quarterbacking session yielded a solid response; instead of pulling breakers, shutting off the master evidently disables all trim function and the airplane can still be flown. I really wish it had worked out for that medical team, it's a double tragedy to lose a team of lifesavers like that... /John ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:28 AM Subject: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash This is the craziest I've ever seen. http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/903-full.html#195584 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com __________ NOD32 2384 (20070708) Information __________ __________ NOD32 2385 (20070709) Information __________ __________ NOD32 2385 (20070709) Information __________ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:56:20 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: Commander-List: RE: Craziest Cessna crash (Correct link now, sorry about that) Sorry, Folks. This is the link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1Yf6_MVTck ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:36 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: RE: Commander-List: RE: Craziest Cessna crash (Correct link now, sorry about that) That's a different wreck. bb _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 3:51 PM Subject: Commander-List: RE: Craziest Cessna crash (Correct link now, sorry about that) Sorry, Folks. This is the link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1Yf6_MVTck ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:05:38 PM PST US From: "Steve @ Col-East" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Cough? Matt, Wouldn't happen to have a 6 probe EGT aboard? Be interesting to see what it said when the engine burps. I've seen now several tubes crack underneath the clamp in the flange. Plus they are a little tricky to seat. But I don't want to send you on a wild goose chase. Rich wasn't a bad suggestion either. Couple months back I posted about having an injector servo go WAY rich when reducing power. You're running a pressure carburetor, different from our rig and outside my experience, but a similar situation seems concievable. This might be a goofy idea, but have you pulled the plugs yet to see how they're doing cylinder by cylinder? Right after you had the condition might be informative. Ok, now I'll really stop speculating. Honest. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew J. Hawkins" Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:07 PM Subject: Commander-List: Engine Cough? > > > All- > > We're having a minor intermittent problem on the left engine of N2760B. > They are Lycoming G0-480-DIA's. Geared engine with pressure carburetors. > > When reducing power, the engine will cough/sputter as soon as it hit's 21" > of manifold pressure. Doesn't quit - just skips and runs a bit rough. > > Doesn't happen when increasing power. > > All gauge reading in the green - nothing obvious. > > About 15 hours on the engines since major overhaul. Did not happen during > first 10-12hrs - started during past couple of flights. Won't happen > every time - but about 75% of the time. Just a little disconcerting on > final! > > Any thoughts? > > Matt > > ******************** > Matthew Hawkins > Director, Marine Ops > R/V HUGH R. SHARP > 302-645-4341 > FAX: 302-645-4006 > hawkins@udel.edu > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:57 PM PST US From: "Gary Moshluk" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Cough? Make sure your (aluminum) fuel lines don't have any pin holes - sometimes they're nearly impossible to see! They were on my 560. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew J. Hawkins" Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:07 PM Subject: Commander-List: Engine Cough? > > > All- > > We're having a minor intermittent problem on the left engine of N2760B. > They are Lycoming G0-480-DIA's. Geared engine with pressure carburetors. > > When reducing power, the engine will cough/sputter as soon as it hit's 21" > of manifold pressure. Doesn't quit - just skips and runs a bit rough. > > Doesn't happen when increasing power. > > All gauge reading in the green - nothing obvious. > > About 15 hours on the engines since major overhaul. Did not happen during > first 10-12hrs - started during past couple of flights. Won't happen > every time - but about 75% of the time. Just a little disconcerting on > final! > > Any thoughts? > > Matt > > ******************** > Matthew Hawkins > Director, Marine Ops > R/V HUGH R. SHARP > 302-645-4341 > FAX: 302-645-4006 > hawkins@udel.edu > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:50 PM PST US From: Donnie Rose Subject: Commander-List: fly in Hello fellow Commanders! I seem to have lost my info, can someone kindly forward the info for the Fly-In for I plan on attending. Thank you, N69PT Donnie Rose 205/492-8444 Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:13 PM PST US Subject: Commander-List: Fwd: Hangar Hotel update From: yourtcfg@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: John Towner Cc: Barry Collman Sent: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 6:32 pm Subject: Hangar Hotel update Cpt Jim, Just a little info on the Hangar Hotel.? One of the pilots for Sanborn Mapping that we trained last year (insurance training), has returned this week for re-current.? Sanborn has a 500S that they do mapping with.? You might see if you go to "Google Earth" to the right it will say Sanborn.? Sanborn was at the "Hangar Hotel airport several weeks ago doing a mapping assignment and their pilot said the Hangar Hotel is really "cool" and the mechanic at the airport did some work on their 500S and is good too.? He said the Hangar Hotel decor and the "Officer's Club" etc is really a fun experience.? I told the Sanborn fellows they need to join the TCFG and come this year to our get together and they said they will try.? Also Sanborn has purchased a 2nd Commander because the 1st one has worked out so well for mapping. YOUR FRIEND, John Towner ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:33 PM PST US From: "Robert S. Randazzo" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash Standard procedure training event at a part 121 air carrier.... they throw a runaway at you (almost always a nose down event in close proximity to the ground) just to see how quickly you can grab the master disconnect.... If these guys were hunting for circuit breakers- and they'd been professionally trained (which I'm assuming is the case) then maybe the problem wasn't so simple as all of us quarter backs would hope.... Rob _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 11:27 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash How would you know you would remember shutting off the master when there are only a few seconds left? Training for such an emergency in a simulator would be a good starting point, I guess. You still wouldn't know, would you? _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 10:19 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash Runaway trim is pretty scary. The Monday morning quarterbacking session yielded a solid response; instead of pulling breakers, shutting off the master evidently disables all trim function and the airplane can still be flown. I really wish it had worked out for that medical team, it's a double tragedy to lose a team of lifesavers like that... /John ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:28 AM Subject: Commander-List: Craziest Cessna crash This is the craziest I've ever seen. http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/903-full.html#195584 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com __________ NOD32 2384 (20070708) Information __________ __________ NOD32 2386 (20070709) Information __________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.