Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:03 AM - fore and aft loading vs. performance (Steve @ Col-East)
2. 08:37 AM - Re: fore and aft loading vs. performance (CloudCraft@aol.com)
3. 09:32 AM - Re: SPAM-LOW: fore and aft loading vs. performance (Robert S. Randazzo)
4. 09:37 AM - Re: TCFG membership (WINGFLYER1@aol.com)
5. 11:05 AM - Re: fore and aft loading vs. performance (Steve @ Col-East)
6. 11:10 AM - Re: fore and aft loading vs. performance (CloudCraft@aol.com)
7. 11:20 AM - Re: SPAM-LOW: fore and aft loading vs. performance (Steve @ Col-East)
8. 11:54 AM - Re: TCFG membership (Donnie Rose)
9. 01:43 PM - Re: SPAM-LOW: fore and aft loading vs. performance (David Owens)
10. 01:44 PM - Re: SPAM-LOW: fore and aft loading vs. performance (David Owens)
11. 02:46 PM - fore and aft loading vs. performance (Steve @ Col-East)
12. 04:02 PM - Aero Commander 560 For Sale (brent mueller)
Message 1
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From: | "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2@sover.net> |
Subject: | fore and aft loading vs. performance |
Gang,
I know in THEORY that an aft loading affects cruise and stall speeds,
and the book answer as to why.
Has anyone messed around with loading configurations and seen a real
world difference? How much?
Seing as how we're well to the front, and could go out of the envelope
in certain configurations, I'm curious as to whether ballasting could
actually pay off by increased efficiency.
Was it cmd Gordon that mentioned something about ballast a couple
threads back? What's the history on that?
Steve
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: fore and aft loading vs. performance |
In a message dated 27-Jul-07 06:04:40 Pacific Daylight Time, steve2@sover.net
writes:
Seing as how we're well to the front, and could go out of the envelope in
certain configurations, I'm curious as to whether ballasting could actually pay
off by increased efficiency.
As for the history of ballasting, as I understand it, when enhancements came
about such as the Shrike nose, 3 blade props and pilot doors, the added weight
brought the C.G. too far forward.
The factory began placing lead plates on the aft tail stringers, and that's
what's been done with pre-Shrike models when noses, doors and panel mount
avionics were put on as after market mods.
There is the anecdotal tale of Mr. RPM doing a demo for a flying missionary
group who were interested in the MR. RPM conversion of the AC-680-FL(P). They
had a high altitude / short field requirement that had to be demonstrated so
MR. RPM did the trials at Big Bear Lake ... and loaded for maximum aft C.G. to
achieve the performance needed.
Wing Commander Gordon
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
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Message 3
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Subject: | fore and aft loading vs. performance |
Steve-
When racing our T-6, we shift the CG all the way to the rear limit. This
adds a significant amount of speed vs. allowing the CG to remain where the
designers put it.
That being the case- I'd expect to see the same on any airplane's CG range..
We are currently "Weighing" the pro's/con's of the CG location on N414C when
we finally get her on the scales. So much equipment came out of the
empennage mounted racks that the CG has likely come forward some. This is a
good thing for single engine control- but a bad thing for cruise speeds..
This airplane already had 70lbs of lead ballast weight bolted to the very
tip of the tail..
Robert Randazzo
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve @
Col-East
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 6:03 AM
Subject: SPAM-LOW: Commander-List: fore and aft loading vs. performance
Gang,
I know in THEORY that an aft loading affects cruise and stall speeds, and
the book answer as to why.
Has anyone messed around with loading configurations and seen a real world
difference? How much?
Seing as how we're well to the front, and could go out of the envelope in
certain configurations, I'm curious as to whether ballasting could actually
pay off by increased efficiency.
Was it cmd Gordon that mentioned something about ballast a couple threads
back? What's the history on that?
Steve
__________ NOD32 2425 (20070727) Information __________
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: TCFG membership |
Donnie, I f you have a seat left let me know. My 680 is still down for
repairs and not sure if it will be ready by fly in time. I`m just up the road in
Nashville, Tn. area Thanks Gil 615-373-5703
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 5
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From: | "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2@sover.net> |
Subject: | Re: fore and aft loading vs. performance |
Do the Shrikes then come out of the factory with lead ballast?
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft@aol.com
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: fore and aft loading vs. performance
In a message dated 27-Jul-07 06:04:40 Pacific Daylight Time,
steve2@sover.net writes:
Seing as how we're well to the front, and could go out of the
envelope in certain configurations, I'm curious as to whether ballasting
could actually pay off by increased efficiency.
As for the history of ballasting, as I understand it, when
enhancements came about such as the Shrike nose, 3 blade props and pilot
doors, the added weight brought the C.G. too far forward.
The factory began placing lead plates on the aft tail stringers, and
that's what's been done with pre-Shrike models when noses, doors and
panel mount avionics were put on as after market mods.
There is the anecdotal tale of Mr. RPM doing a demo for a flying
missionary group who were interested in the MR. RPM conversion of the
AC-680-FL(P). They had a high altitude / short field requirement that
had to be demonstrated so MR. RPM did the trials at Big Bear Lake ...
and loaded for maximum aft C.G. to achieve the performance needed.
Wing Commander Gordon
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: fore and aft loading vs. performance |
In a message dated 27-Jul-07 11:06:37 Pacific Daylight Time, steve2@sover.net
writes:
Do the Shrikes then come out of the factory with lead ballast?
To my knowledge, yes.
WCG
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 7
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From: | "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2@sover.net> |
Subject: | Re: fore and aft loading vs. performance |
This stuff is good information. When I did some calcs of loading
scenarios I thought I had to be wrong..... We too have now removed most
of the stuff from the 'radio room'.
I added a line to my spreadsheet for 'ballast' and I am surprised at how
much the ship can usefully add out at the tailcone bulkhead location.
(Where we would really put it, I'm not sure.... I'd want to look at what
has been done in the past.)
We got to kick this around some, check my numbers, and decide what we
want to do. But its good to know that I'm not making this up and there
is a history of some of these aircraft using ballast.....
T-6's are up to what nowadays, 225mph or better? I've played a little
with rudder trim, and I'm pretty sure tweaking that even after a
centered ball can gain a couple knots.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert S. Randazzo
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 12:30 PM
Subject: RE: SPAM-LOW: Commander-List: fore and aft loading vs.
performance
Steve-
When racing our T-6, we shift the CG all the way to the rear limit.
This adds a significant amount of speed vs. allowing the CG to remain
where the designers put it.
That being the case- I'd expect to see the same on any airplane's CG
range..
We are currently "Weighing" the pro's/con's of the CG location on
N414C when we finally get her on the scales. So much equipment came out
of the empennage mounted racks that the CG has likely come forward some.
This is a good thing for single engine control- but a bad thing for
cruise speeds.. This airplane already had 70lbs of lead ballast weight
bolted to the very tip of the tail..
Robert Randazzo
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve @
Col-East
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 6:03 AM
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Subject: SPAM-LOW: Commander-List: fore and aft loading vs.
performance
Gang,
I know in THEORY that an aft loading affects cruise and stall speeds,
and the book answer as to why.
Has anyone messed around with loading configurations and seen a real
world difference? How much?
Seing as how we're well to the front, and could go out of the envelope
in certain configurations, I'm curious as to whether ballasting could
actually pay off by increased efficiency.
Was it cmd Gordon that mentioned something about ballast a couple
threads back? What's the history on that?
Steve
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
com
__________ NOD32 2425 (20070727) Information __________
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: TCFG membership |
Hey Gil, as of right now there are three seats left and you are welcome, ju
st let me know.=0AN69PT=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A--
--- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "WINGFLYER1@aol.com" <WINGFLYER1@aol.com>
=0ATo: commander-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, July 27, 2007 11:29:28
AM=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: TCFG membership=0A=0A=0ADonnie, I f you h
ave a seat left let me know. My 680 is still down for repairs and not sure
if it will be ready by fly in time. I`m just up the road in Nashville, Tn.
area Thanks Gil 615-373-5703=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AGet a sneak peek of the al
===========0A=0A=0A =0A__________________________
__________________________________________________________=0ANeed a vacatio
n? Get great deals=0Ato amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.=0Ahttp://travel.ya
hoo.com/
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: fore and aft loading vs. performance |
We also have the lead ballast in the tail of the 500A...
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: fore and aft loading vs. performance |
What does SPAM LOW MEAN???
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
Message 11
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From: | "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2@sover.net> |
Subject: | fore and aft loading vs. performance |
David,
I was wondering about you guys. You've got the camera installation and a
Colemill conversion, if I remember right. Any idea how much lead, and
where it was put?
As for the SPAM-LOW, maybe its the list's way of telling me to quit
sending so many messages. (I'm almost done, honest.)
----- Original Message -----
From: David Owens
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: SPAM-LOW: Commander-List: fore and aft loading vs.
performance
We also have the lead ballast in the tail of the 500A...
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
Message 12
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Subject: | Aero Commander 560 For Sale |
We are listing N224HA for Sale.
1957 Aero Commander 560E
N224HA serial #567
March 07 Annual
Anyone intererested can pm me...
Thanks
Brent - N224HA
763-717-9721
Will try and post pics soon...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125958#125958
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