---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/08/07: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:18 AM - Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A (Jerry Sprayberry) 2. 07:25 AM - Re: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A (MASON CHEVAILLIER) 3. 08:13 AM - Re: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A (Myron Ashley) 4. 08:28 AM - Re: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A (CloudCraft@aol.com) 5. 09:57 AM - Re: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A (Moe - Ross Racing Pistons) 6. 12:57 PM - 500A (Bill Bow) 7. 01:21 PM - Re: 500A () 8. 01:24 PM - Re: 500A (cloudcraft@aol.com) 9. 01:32 PM - Re: 500A (John Vormbaum) 10. 01:32 PM - Re: 500A (Barry Collman) 11. 01:37 PM - Re: 500A (Bill Bow) 12. 01:39 PM - Re: 500A (Bill Bow) 13. 02:15 PM - Re: 500A (BillLeff1@aol.com) 14. 02:21 PM - Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot (Kerry Johnson) 15. 02:21 PM - Re: Outflow Valve (BillLeff1@aol.com) 16. 02:22 PM - Re: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A (Jerry Sprayberry) 17. 02:29 PM - Re: 500A (nico css) 18. 02:30 PM - Re: Pressurization Control Panel (BillLeff1@aol.com) 19. 02:32 PM - Re: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot (nico css) 20. 02:51 PM - Re: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot (Kerry Johnson) 21. 03:07 PM - Re: 500A (MASON CHEVAILLIER) 22. 03:27 PM - Re: Outflow Valve (Moe - Ross Racing Pistons) 23. 04:16 PM - Re: 500A (Bill Bow) 24. 07:57 PM - Re: 500A (Don Girod) 25. 10:31 PM - Re: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot (nico css) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:28 AM PST US From: "Jerry Sprayberry" Subject: Commander-List: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A Moe, and all Commander Folks, Thanks for your reply on the Oil Pressure, Input's from the other AC 680 Owners and Drivers will be appreciated. I was not aware that the Oil Pump had a history of being weak, (Morris) said it was capable of up to 400 PSI. 1. I have not checked my O/P Gage, It was ok on the old Engine 2. Columbia Aircraft Services has checked the Pressure at four different places and it is the same. 3. NO. The Pressure drop's to around 63 PSI in flight, Green Band is 70-80. 4. The O/P is OK for Ground OPS with a lot of power, 1500 Plus. Jerry, Thanks for the tip, I will contact Gary. Regarding the oil pressure problem. It is generally accepted that the oil pumps on the IGSO 540 series are too small. I can't remember the GPM (gallons per minute), however, this has been, as I understand it, a long standing problem. Once the pump has in-adequate volume, no amount of spring shimming will raise the oil pressure. Some suggestions: 1.. Have you checked the accuracy of your oil pressure gage? (Laugh, but I have heard some real horror stories) 2.. Screw an oil pressure gage into the oil galley at the front of the engine and compare the oil pressure on the two gages. Lycoming has a maximum differential that is acceptable, again, I can't remember what it is, but will look it up for you if necessary. 3.. Will the oil pressure stay in the green while in flight? 4.. Will the engine maintain a minimum of 35 PSI at hot idle and about 1,500 RPM (minimum for the fuel pump computer to work)? Regards, Moe N680RR 680F(p) Jerry Sprayberry 706 506-3167 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:07 AM PST US From: MASON CHEVAILLIER Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A js, there is a ball/socket on the io 720 that when worn or corrosion will cause a lower o/p reading. interestingly enough it will decrease w/ altitu de and increase on the way back down. there is a factory fix but suspect a t overhaul is most cost efficient time to do it. mason From: capnspray_611@hotmail.comTo: commander-list@matronics.comSubject: Com mander-List: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1ADate: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 09:16:29 -0400 Moe, and all Commander Folks, Thanks for your reply on the Oil Pressure, Input's from the other AC 680 Ow ners and Drivers will be appreciated. I was not aware that the Oil Pump had a history of being weak, (Morris) sai d it was capable of up to 400 PSI. 1. I have not checked my O/P Gage, It was ok on the old Engine 2. Columbia Aircraft Services has checked the Pressure at four diffe rent places and it is the same. 3. NO. The Pressure drop's to around 63 PSI in flight, Green Band is 70-80. 4. The O/P is OK for Ground OPS with a lot of power, 1500 Plus. Jerry, Thanks for the tip, I will contact Gary. Regarding the oil pressure problem. It is generally accepted that the oil pumps on the IGSO 540 series are too small. I can=92t remember the GPM (g allons per minute), however, this has been, as I understand it, a long stan ding problem. Once the pump has in-adequate volume, no amount of spring sh imming will raise the oil pressure. Some suggestions: Have you checked the accuracy of your oil pressure gage? (Laugh, but I hav e heard some real horror stories) Screw an oil pressure gage into the oil galley at the front of the engine a nd compare the oil pressure on the two gages. Lycoming has a maximum diffe rential that is acceptable, again, I can=92t remember what it is, but will look it up for you if necessary. Will the oil pressure stay in the green while in flight? Will the engine maintain a minimum of 35 PSI at hot idle and about 1,500 RP M (minimum for the fuel pump computer to work)? Regards, Moe N680RR 680F(p) Jerry Sprayberry706 506-3167 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:06 AM PST US From: "Myron Ashley" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A Hello Jerry, I am not an engine expert but I have a little hydraulic experience. Here is a viewpoint from a hydraulic perspective. Pumps - Oil pressure is the measurement of resistance to flow. A pump does not produce pressure, it produces flow. The pump has a pressure rating that is the pressure that it can withstand before failure. With that being said, low oil pressure means that the pump is not producing the same flow as before (defective or worn pump), or the oil has found an alternate path of least resistance (a crack or a missing internal plug in an oil galley). The function of a relief valve is to protect the hydraulic system from going over a certain pressure setting. A relief valve is a normally closed valve that only opens when oil pressure exceeds the spring setting. A faulty relief valve (weak spring or valve does not completely reseat therefore it is leaking) will also cause low oil pressure because it is opening before the desired pressure setting. The most likely cause of low oil pressure would be a pump not producing correct flow (faulty or worn pump) or relief valve opening before desired system pressure (spring setting) is achieved (faulty spring or valve seat). I hope this helps! Myron Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Sprayberry To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 8:16 AM Subject: Commander-List: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A Moe, and all Commander Folks, Thanks for your reply on the Oil Pressure, Input's from the other AC 680 Owners and Drivers will be appreciated. I was not aware that the Oil Pump had a history of being weak, (Morris) said it was capable of up to 400 PSI. 1. I have not checked my O/P Gage, It was ok on the old Engine 2. Columbia Aircraft Services has checked the Pressure at four different places and it is the same. 3. NO. The Pressure drop's to around 63 PSI in flight, Green Band is 70-80. 4. The O/P is OK for Ground OPS with a lot of power, 1500 Plus. Jerry, Thanks for the tip, I will contact Gary. Regarding the oil pressure problem. It is generally accepted that the oil pumps on the IGSO 540 series are too small. I can't remember the GPM (gallons per minute), however, this has been, as I understand it, a long standing problem. Once the pump has in-adequate volume, no amount of spring shimming will raise the oil pressure. Some suggestions: 1.. Have you checked the accuracy of your oil pressure gage? (Laugh, but I have heard some real horror stories) 2.. Screw an oil pressure gage into the oil galley at the front of the engine and compare the oil pressure on the two gages. Lycoming has a maximum differential that is acceptable, again, I can't remember what it is, but will look it up for you if necessary. 3.. Will the oil pressure stay in the green while in flight? 4.. Will the engine maintain a minimum of 35 PSI at hot idle and about 1,500 RPM (minimum for the fuel pump computer to work)? Regards, Moe N680RR 680F(p) Jerry Sprayberry 706 506-3167 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:08 AM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A Jerry, In my days of IGSO-540 flying, it was suggested that an oil pressure drop that could not be adjusted at pump output was a sign of a main bearing going bad. Hard to imagine that with a recent o/h engine but stranger things have happened. Wing Commander Gordon http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:57:33 AM PST US From: "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A Jerry, The oil pump on these engines seems to be capable of lots of pressure, but not much volume. It is entirely possible to have a pump which will put out lots of PSI pressure at a very low volume, but as the volume demand increases (too much clearance between the rod and/or main bearings and the crankshaft, a missing oil spray nozzle for the underside of the pistons, ect.) the pressure goes down dramatically. Myron and Wing Commander Gordon are correct. Generally, if the engine is very worn with lots of clearance between the worn parts, which allows the oil to escape back into the sump using the path of least resistance, your biggest problem will be at hot idle (low oil pump speed and lots of clearance for the oil to squirt out at). When I had two very worn engines in my bird the oil pressure would barely stay in the green in the air, however, on the ground and hot there was not enough oil pressure (below 35PSI) to make the fuel metering system work, so it would run so rich that it was hard to keep it lit when landing, and you had to manually lean it out on the roll out. Since you can maintain pressure at high idle (1,500 RPM) on the ground, but not at higher RPM, based on my old race car experience, be sure that the inlet oil line from the tank to the pump does not have a "flapper" in it that is reducing the amount of oil that is available for the pump. Check all of the fittings on the inlet side for restrictions. In short be sure that the line from the dry sump tank to the oil pump is not restricted. Did you say that the pump relief spring was already shimmed with seven washers when it came from Perf. Aero, or did someone else add these at a later time? Regards, Moe _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Sprayberry Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 6:16 AM Subject: Commander-List: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A Moe, and all Commander Folks, Thanks for your reply on the Oil Pressure, Input's from the other AC 680 Owners and Drivers will be appreciated. I was not aware that the Oil Pump had a history of being weak, (Morris) said it was capable of up to 400 PSI. 1. I have not checked my O/P Gage, It was ok on the old Engine 2. Columbia Aircraft Services has checked the Pressure at four different places and it is the same. 3. NO. The Pressure drop's to around 63 PSI in flight, Green Band is 70-80. 4. The O/P is OK for Ground OPS with a lot of power, 1500 Plus. Jerry, Thanks for the tip, I will contact Gary. Regarding the oil pressure problem. It is generally accepted that the oil pumps on the IGSO 540 series are too small. I can't remember the GPM (gallons per minute), however, this has been, as I understand it, a long standing problem. Once the pump has in-adequate volume, no amount of spring shimming will raise the oil pressure. Some suggestions: 1. Have you checked the accuracy of your oil pressure gage? (Laugh, but I have heard some real horror stories) 2. Screw an oil pressure gage into the oil galley at the front of the engine and compare the oil pressure on the two gages. Lycoming has a maximum differential that is acceptable, again, I can't remember what it is, but will look it up for you if necessary. 3. Will the oil pressure stay in the green while in flight? 4. Will the engine maintain a minimum of 35 PSI at hot idle and about 1,500 RPM (minimum for the fuel pump computer to work)? Regards, Moe N680RR 680F(p) Jerry Sprayberry 706 506-3167 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:57:06 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: Commander-List: 500A Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I would still own it today. I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few of those involved in the Commander community. However, I have decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway. I have made a lot of good friends on this list some that I will probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot more good guys here than "gold diggers". I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list "Commander ownership is not for everybody". Well, it's not for me. Cheers, Bill Bow ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:21:15 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A 500AHi Bill, If I remember correctly you were one of the many that provided some helpful comments about Commanders and was supportive of me when I was writing my book. Again thank you for that. I hope you will still frequent the lists - I do and I'm not a Commander owner; I wish I was, and again I'm glad I'm not, if that makes any sense. God bless, Andrew do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:24:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A From: cloudcraft@aol.com Bilbo, I'm going to miss your insightful and smart ass contributions to the list. =C2- Don't stray too far; you do have information and opinions to pass alo ng. Where is your plane going?=C2- It's always good to know where the distress calls are likely to come from. Wing Commander Gordon -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bow Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:56 am Subject: Commander-List: 500A Well, it is finished.=C2- As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner.=C2 - I wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I would still own it today. I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few of those involved in the Commander community.=C2- However, I have decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway.=C2- I have made a lot of good friends on this list some that I will probably neve r meet. I do believe there are a lot more good guys here than =9Cgold diggers=9D. I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list =9CCommander ownership is not for everybody=9D. Well, it=99s not for me. Cheers, Bill Bow ________________________________________________________________________ AOL at AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:32:05 PM PST US From: John Vormbaum Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A Bill, I'm sorry to hear that you've sold your Commander. As a person who has experienced ownership at the opposite end of the spectrum from you (I love my airplane & it's taken good care of me), I wish wholeheartedly that you had had a positive experience. I do understand that Commander ownership isn't for everybody, but I hope one day that you'll again be seduced by one of these fine airplanes. Stay on the list regardless!!! /John Bill Bow wrote: > > Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I > wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I > would still own it today. > > I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a_ > few_ of those involved in the Commander community. However, I have > decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- > anyway. I have made a lot of good friends on this list some that I > will probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot more good guys > here than gold diggers. > > I will always remember the_ supportive_ words of one person on this > list Commander ownership is not for everybody. > > Well, its not for me. > > Cheers, > > Bill Bow > > * > > > * > > > __________ NOD32 2443 (20070808) Information __________ > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:59 PM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A Hey! We're not going to miss him that much - didn't Bilbo start the sump saga? Well, OK, I suppose we will. Good Luck Bilbo! Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: cloudcraft@aol.com To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:23 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Commander-List: 500A Bilbo, I'm going to miss your insightful and smart ass contributions to the list. Don't stray too far; you do have information and opinions to pass along. Where is your plane going? It's always good to know where the distress calls are likely to come from. Wing Commander Gordon -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bow To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:56 am Subject: Commander-List: 500A Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I would still own it today. I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few of those involved in the Commander community. However, I have decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway. I have made a lot of good friends on this list some that I will probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot more good guys here than =9Cgold diggers=9D. I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list =9CCommander ownership is not for everybody=9D. Well, it=99s not for me. Cheers, Bill Bow or?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List p://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ="_blank">AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:59 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: RE: Commander-List: 500A N78379 is going to The Kings Wings. It is a missionary group out of south Florida. bb _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cloudcraft@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 4:24 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A Bilbo, I'm going to miss your insightful and smart ass contributions to the list. Don't stray too far; you do have information and opinions to pass along. Where is your plane going? It's always good to know where the distress calls are likely to come from. Wing Commander Gordon -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bow Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:56 am Subject: Commander-List: 500A Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I would still own it today. I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few of those involved in the Commander community. However, I have decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway. I have made a lot of good friends on this list some that I will probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot more good guys here than "gold diggers". I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list "Commander ownership is not for everybody". Well, it's not for me. Cheers, Bill Bow ========== or?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ========== p://forums.matronics.com ========== _____ size=2 width="100%" align=center> ="_blank">AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:30 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: RE: Commander-List: 500A THAT'S ME!! SUMP, SUMP,SUMP, SUMP, SUMP,SUMP, SUMP, SUMP,SUMP Love it. bilbo _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Collman Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 4:33 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A Hey! We're not going to miss him that much - didn't Bilbo start the sump saga? Well, OK, I suppose we will. Good Luck Bilbo! Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: cloudcraft@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:23 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Commander-List: 500A Bilbo, I'm going to miss your insightful and smart ass contributions to the list. Don't stray too far; you do have information and opinions to pass along. Where is your plane going? It's always good to know where the distress calls are likely to come from. Wing Commander Gordon -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bow Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:56 am Subject: Commander-List: 500A Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I would still own it today. I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few of those involved in the Commander community. However, I have decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway. I have made a lot of good friends on this list some that I will probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot more good guys here than "gold diggers". I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list "Commander ownership is not for everybody". Well, it's not for me. Cheers, Bill Bow ========== or?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ========== p://forums.matronics.com ========== _____ size=2 width="100%" align=center> ="_blank">AOL.com. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:15:57 PM PST US From: BillLeff1@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A Thanks Andrew Bill http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:21:00 PM PST US From: "Kerry Johnson" Subject: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot Hi Guys: Wow, what a trial this has been tying to buy a good Turboprop airplane. We thought we had a nice Twin Commander 1000, a few months ago, but the owner backed out. Then we looked at some different jets and we ended up buying N46FD which is a Piper Cheyenne LS400. http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=105278 &return_url=/i.aso3/search.jspyyyyyiaso3sid=1xxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxtype id=3xxxxxmmgid=9xxxxxmodelgroup=truexxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxregionid=-1 It's back in CT and I'm going to go get it and bring it back home SGU on Monday, so I should be back sometime early next week. I'll check in and let you know how it flies when I get back and get settled. We are also looking to hire a pilot besides me to fly the plane so if you know anyone that would be good, please have them contact me. Thanks! KV Electric, INC. Kerry Johnson, President 1139 North 1210 West St. George, UT 84770 (435) 673-4696 Office (435) 673-4731 Fax ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:21:45 PM PST US From: BillLeff1@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Outflow Valve The test must have worked? Bill http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:55 PM PST US From: "Jerry Sprayberry" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A Moe, The Engine was delivered in a crate with Performance Engines written on all sides. I unpacked the engine and removed the clear plastic wrapping myself, The washers were in the regulator. We found the washers when we tried to adjust the pressure to 75 PSI at 2200 RPM. JS ----- Original Message ----- From: Moe - Ross Racing Pistons To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 1:01 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A Jerry, The oil pump on these engines seems to be capable of lots of pressure, but not much volume. It is entirely possible to have a pump which will put out lots of PSI pressure at a very low volume, but as the volume demand increases (too much clearance between the rod and/or main bearings and the crankshaft, a missing oil spray nozzle for the underside of the pistons, ect.) the pressure goes down dramatically. Myron and Wing Commander Gordon are correct. Generally, if the engine is very worn with lots of clearance between the worn parts, which allows the oil to escape back into the sump using the path of least resistance, your biggest problem will be at hot idle (low oil pump speed and lots of clearance for the oil to squirt out at). When I had two very worn engines in my bird the oil pressure would barely stay in the green in the air, however, on the ground and hot there was not enough oil pressure (below 35PSI) to make the fuel metering system work, so it would run so rich that it was hard to keep it lit when landing, and you had to manually lean it out on the roll out. Since you can maintain pressure at high idle (1,500 RPM) on the ground, but not at higher RPM, based on my old race car experience, be sure that the inlet oil line from the tank to the pump does not have a "flapper" in it that is reducing the amount of oil that is available for the pump. Check all of the fittings on the inlet side for restrictions. In short be sure that the line from the dry sump tank to the oil pump is not restricted. Did you say that the pump relief spring was already shimmed with seven washers when it came from Perf. Aero, or did someone else add these at a later time? Regards, Moe ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Sprayberry Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 6:16 AM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: Oil Pressure IGSO 540 B1A Moe, and all Commander Folks, Thanks for your reply on the Oil Pressure, Input's from the other AC 680 Owners and Drivers will be appreciated. I was not aware that the Oil Pump had a history of being weak, (Morris) said it was capable of up to 400 PSI. 1. I have not checked my O/P Gage, It was ok on the old Engine 2. Columbia Aircraft Services has checked the Pressure at four different places and it is the same. 3. NO. The Pressure drop's to around 63 PSI in flight, Green Band is 70-80. 4. The O/P is OK for Ground OPS with a lot of power, 1500 Plus. Jerry, Thanks for the tip, I will contact Gary. Regarding the oil pressure problem. It is generally accepted that the oil pumps on the IGSO 540 series are too small. I can't remember the GPM (gallons per minute), however, this has been, as I understand it, a long standing problem. Once the pump has in-adequate volume, no amount of spring shimming will raise the oil pressure. Some suggestions: 1.. Have you checked the accuracy of your oil pressure gage? (Laugh, but I have heard some real horror stories) 2.. Screw an oil pressure gage into the oil galley at the front of the engine and compare the oil pressure on the two gages. Lycoming has a maximum differential that is acceptable, again, I can't remember what it is, but will look it up for you if necessary. 3.. Will the oil pressure stay in the green while in flight? 4.. Will the engine maintain a minimum of 35 PSI at hot idle and about 1,500 RPM (minimum for the fuel pump computer to work)? Regards, Moe N680RR 680F(p) Jerry Sprayberry 706 506-3167 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:17 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Commander-List: 500A Bilbo, Would you be kind enough to write down your experience? - pulling no punches. It's refreshing for any group to hear critique and encouragement, it's how things get better, otherwise we will, no doubt, repeat our mistakes and, perhaps unwittingly, ignore our strengths. Thanks Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bow Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 1:39 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: 500A THAT'S ME!! SUMP, SUMP,SUMP, SUMP, SUMP,SUMP, SUMP, SUMP,SUMP Love it. bilbo _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Collman Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 4:33 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A Hey! We're not going to miss him that much - didn't Bilbo start the sump saga? Well, OK, I suppose we will. Good Luck Bilbo! Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: cloudcraft@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:23 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Commander-List: 500A Bilbo, I'm going to miss your insightful and smart ass contributions to the list. Don't stray too far; you do have information and opinions to pass along. Where is your plane going? It's always good to know where the distress calls are likely to come from. Wing Commander Gordon -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bow Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:56 am Subject: Commander-List: 500A Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I would still own it today. I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few of those involved in the Commander community. However, I have decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway. I have made a lot of good friends on this list some that I will probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot more good guys here than "gold diggers". I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list "Commander ownership is not for everybody". Well, it's not for me. Cheers, Bill Bow ========== or?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ========== p://forums.matronics.com ==========
="_blank">AOL.com. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:03 PM PST US From: BillLeff1@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pressurization Control Panel Anytime! Bill http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:08 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot A retired B777 pilot's looking for a job. I heard him call Rush today. Perhaps Rush's people could put you onto him. He got screwed by his union which reduced his pension by some gadawful amount and now he must go back to the left seat. _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kerry Johnson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 2:20 PM Subject: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot Hi Guys: Wow, what a trial this has been tying to buy a good Turboprop airplane. We thought we had a nice Twin Commander 1000, a few months ago, but the owner backed out. Then we looked at some different jets and we ended up buying N46FD which is a Piper Cheyenne LS400. http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=105278 &return_url=/i.aso3/search.jspyyyyyiaso3sid=1xxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxtype id=3xxxxxmmgid=9xxxxxmodelgroup=truexxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxregionid=-1 It's back in CT and I'm going to go get it and bring it back home SGU on Monday, so I should be back sometime early next week. I'll check in and let you know how it flies when I get back and get settled. We are also looking to hire a pilot besides me to fly the plane so if you know anyone that would be good, please have them contact me Thanks! KV Electric, INC. Kerry Johnson, President 1139 North 1210 West St. George, UT 84770 (435) 673-4696 Office (435) 673-4731 Fax ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:09 PM PST US From: "Kerry Johnson" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot I heard that guy too. I sent an email to Rush, but I'll be real surprised if I get any response, he says he gets 10,000 emails a day. KV Electric, INC. Kerry Johnson, President 1139 North 1210 West St. George, UT 84770 (435) 673-4696 Office (435) 673-4731 Fax _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 3:32 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot A retired B777 pilot's looking for a job. I heard him call Rush today. Perhaps Rush's people could put you onto him. He got screwed by his union which reduced his pension by some gadawful amount and now he must go back to the left seat. _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kerry Johnson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 2:20 PM Subject: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot Hi Guys: Wow, what a trial this has been tying to buy a good Turboprop airplane. We thought we had a nice Twin Commander 1000, a few months ago, but the owner backed out. Then we looked at some different jets and we ended up buying N46FD which is a Piper Cheyenne LS400. http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=105278 &return_url=/i.aso3/search.jspyyyyyiaso3sid=1xxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxtype id=3xxxxxmmgid=9xxxxxmodelgroup=truexxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxregionid=-1 It's back in CT and I'm going to go get it and bring it back home SGU on Monday, so I should be back sometime early next week. I'll check in and let you know how it flies when I get back and get settled. We are also looking to hire a pilot besides me to fly the plane so if you know anyone that would be good, please have them contact me Thanks! KV Electric, INC. Kerry Johnson, President 1139 North 1210 West St. George, UT 84770 (435) 673-4696 Office (435) 673-4731 Fax ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:01 PM PST US From: MASON CHEVAILLIER Subject: RE: Commander-List: 500A bilbo, i agree & what book? mason From: nico@cybersuperstore.comTo: commander-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Commander-List: 500ADate: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 14:28:52 -0700 Bilbo, Would you be kind enough to write down your experience? ' pulling no punc hes. It=92s refreshing for any group to hear critique and encouragement, it =92s how things get better, otherwise we will, no doubt, repeat our mistake s and, perhaps unwittingly, ignore our strengths. Thanks Nico From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill BowSent: Wednesday, August 08, 20 07 1:39 PMTo: commander-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Commander-List: 500A THAT=92S ME!! SUMP, SUMP,SUMP, SUMP, SUMP,SUMP, SUMP, SUMP,SUMP Love it. bilbo From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry CollmanSent: Wednesday, August 0 8, 2007 4:33 PMTo: commander-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Commander-List: 500A Hey! We're not going to miss him that much - didn't Bilbo start the sump sa ga? Well, OK, I suppose we will. Good Luck Bilbo! Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: cloudcraft@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:23 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Commander-List: 500A Bilbo,I'm going to miss your insightful and smart ass contributions to the list. Don't stray too far; you do have information and opinions to pass al ong.Where is your plane going? It's always good to know where the distress calls are likely to come from.Wing Commander Gordon -----Original Message-----From: Bill Bow To: comman der-list@matronics.comSent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:56 amSubject: Commander-List : 500A Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I would st ill own it today. I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few o f those involved in the Commander community. However, I have decided it wo uld be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway. I have m ade a lot of good friends on this list some that I will probably never meet . I do believe there are a lot more good guys here than =93gold diggers=94. I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list =93C ommander ownership is not for everybody=94. Well, it=92s not for me. Cheers, Bill Bow ========== or?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ========== p://forums.matronics.com ==========
="_blank">AOL.com. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander- List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forum s.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:27:53 PM PST US From: "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Outflow Valve Yes, Bill it did. Thank you for your wise council. Moe _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BillLeff1@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Outflow Valve The test must have worked? Bill _____ . ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:10 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: RE: Commander-List: 500A I'll consider it. bb _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 5:29 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: 500A Bilbo, Would you be kind enough to write down your experience? - pulling no punches. It's refreshing for any group to hear critique and encouragement, it's how things get better, otherwise we will, no doubt, repeat our mistakes and, perhaps unwittingly, ignore our strengths. Thanks Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bow Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 1:39 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: 500A THAT'S ME!! SUMP, SUMP,SUMP, SUMP, SUMP,SUMP, SUMP, SUMP,SUMP Love it. bilbo _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Collman Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 4:33 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A Hey! We're not going to miss him that much - didn't Bilbo start the sump saga? Well, OK, I suppose we will. Good Luck Bilbo! Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: cloudcraft@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:23 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Commander-List: 500A Bilbo, I'm going to miss your insightful and smart ass contributions to the list. Don't stray too far; you do have information and opinions to pass along. Where is your plane going? It's always good to know where the distress calls are likely to come from. Wing Commander Gordon -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bow Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:56 am Subject: Commander-List: 500A Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I would still own it today. I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few of those involved in the Commander community. However, I have decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway. I have made a lot of good friends on this list some that I will probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot more good guys here than "gold diggers". I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list "Commander ownership is not for everybody". Well, it's not for me. Cheers, Bill Bow ========== or?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ========== p://forums.matronics.com ==========
="_blank">AOL.com. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:45 PM PST US From: "Don Girod" Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A 500A Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander owner. I wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I bought it as I would still own it today. I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with a few of those involved in the Commander community. However, I have decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives a s---- anyway. I have made a lot of good friends on this list some that I will probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot more good guys here than "gold diggers". I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this list "Commander ownership is not for everybody". Well, it's not for me. Cheers, Bill Bow Bill;You are fortunate in that you still get to sit in the big bird and fly. It was when I could no longer do that, that I bought my Commander. I too am sorry you did not have a good experience, so far, mine has been just what I had hoped for, my problem is I don't go fly enough. However, we all see some frustration on the list with older airplanes and hard to get parts, thankfully, the knowledge is in someone's head.I would only slightly change your supportive words to this, "Commander ownership is not for everybody, but it should be".Keep the shinny side up,Don ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8/7/2007 4:06 PM ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:31:05 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot I am a subscriber to "Rush in a hurry" and it's mentioned there. I'll check out Rush's website; perhaps a name is dropped. Who knows. _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kerry Johnson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 2:51 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot I heard that guy too. I sent an email to Rush, but I'll be real surprised if I get any response, he says he gets 10,000 emails a day. KV Electric, INC. Kerry Johnson, President 1139 North 1210 West St. George, UT 84770 (435) 673-4696 Office (435) 673-4731 Fax _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 3:32 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot A retired B777 pilot's looking for a job. I heard him call Rush today. Perhaps Rush's people could put you onto him. He got screwed by his union which reduced his pension by some gadawful amount and now he must go back to the left seat. _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kerry Johnson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 2:20 PM Subject: Commander-List: Help Wanted: Cheyenne 400LS Pilot Hi Guys: Wow, what a trial this has been tying to buy a good Turboprop airplane. We thought we had a nice Twin Commander 1000, a few months ago, but the owner backed out. Then we looked at some different jets and we ended up buying N46FD which is a Piper Cheyenne LS400. http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=105278 &return_url=/i.aso3/search.jspyyyyyiaso3sid=1xxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxtype id=3xxxxxmmgid=9xxxxxmodelgroup=truexxxxxsearchid=12498766xxxxxregionid=-1 It's back in CT and I'm going to go get it and bring it back home SGU on Monday, so I should be back sometime early next week. I'll check in and let you know how it flies when I get back and get settled. We are also looking to hire a pilot besides me to fly the plane so if you know anyone that would be good, please have them contact me Thanks! KV Electric, INC. Kerry Johnson, President 1139 North 1210 West St. George, UT 84770 (435) 673-4696 Office (435) 673-4731 Fax ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.