Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:03 AM - Re: Aero Commander 560 For Sale (brent-mueller@comcast.net)
2. 10:18 AM - N414C Flew (finally!) (Robert S. Randazzo)
3. 10:39 AM - Re: N414C Flew (finally!) (CloudCraft@aol.com)
4. 03:50 PM - Re: N414C Flew (finally!) (nico css)
5. 04:07 PM - Re: Data plates (nico css)
6. 04:08 PM - Re: Data plates (nico css)
7. 04:08 PM - Re: Data plates (nico css)
8. 05:32 PM - Re: N414C Flew (finally!) (Bill Bow)
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| Subject: | Re: Aero Commander 560 For Sale |
pm sent
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128699#128699
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| Subject: | N414C Flew (finally!) |
Commanders-
I thought you'd all be interested to know that the long derelict N414C
finally flew again after two years and two days of languishing in the rehab
hangar.
We have run a series of engine check-runs during the past few weeks as a
lead-up to flight testing, and aside from a bit of fuel flow tweaking that
was required, all was in great shape.
First flight was conducted on Friday afternoon in 94 degree heat giving us a
density altitude at 4SD of a paltry 8200'. Takeoff was conducted with 12
knots of crosswind at an all up weight of 7700lbs. Takeoff was uneventful
except for the left prop control having to be held in the full forward
position. (It tended to want to slip back to a position that nicely set
3,000 RPM.) Climbout was conducted at 37"/3000RPM, resulting in about
700-800fpm in the climb. Since the new right engine wasn't seated, we were
concerned about leaving the engine at MRCP for the climb, as the TIT was
only just within limits at such a high power setting. The engine seated
itself about 10-15 minutes into the flight, so the next takeoff will be
flown at MRCP to 1500' AGL then at 40"/3000RPM.
Both engines performed flawlessly- and since the purpose of the flight was
to validate that the airplane was mechanically flight worthy, we didn't
spend much time on the avionics. (Okay- I admit- I was mesmerized by all
the pretty stuff on the displays.) We ran through our pre-planned profile
of power settings and climbs/level flight/descent profiles. We engaged the
autopilot briefly during the flight and found that the gains need to be
adjusted slightly in roll and significantly in pitch. This plus a dozen or
so minor squawks were identified- but the airplane is in great shape
considering that she's had her innards torn out and almost completely
replaced. We are working to iron out the couple of squawks related to left
engine (oil seepage) and then N414C will be headed to Morris in California
for a wing spar inspection, and sea level adjustment of fuel flow to both
engines... (Morris is only 140nm from here- how convenient is that?!)
Monday looks to be a working day to clear up squawks, then we'll conduct
another, longer flight on Tuesday morning when the temperature is down
around 70F, in order to give the airplane some advantage.
I can't even begin to tell you how nice it was to by flying a commander
again. The entire staff at Aviation Classics here in Reno stayed nearly an
hour over on Friday afternoon to witness the test flight. There were plenty
of smiles all around when we taxied back in and shut down with an
overall-good flight report! A lot of people have invested a lot of time to
get this airplane back in the air- there are a dozen or so people who have
adopted this airplane as a result of their hard work- and it was rewarding
to all of us that they finally saw her fly! Image of new cockpit is
attached.
One interesting side note on N414C- we discovered something HORRIFYING about
our airplane on Friday morning. (Kieth & Milt: this will put your hair on
end.) When N414C was built, she was weighed at 6500lbs and flown to
California where the interior and avionics were installed. The installation
facility included the work on a 337 which listed all of the equipment
weight- and a new calculated W/B was entered into the flight manual. This
W/B was in error, as it OMITTED THE WEIGHT OF THE NEW INTERIOR AND AVIONICS
FITTINGS. To make matters worse, the airplane has not been on scales since
the date of manufacture and all other W/B updates were done as calculated
updates- so throughout the airplane's entire career, her paperwork has shown
that she weighed hundreds of pounds less than actual weight.
Since 1973, almost 200lbs of "other stuff" was added to the airplane, so
while the most current calculated W/B showed 6690lbs, we estimated that the
airplane actually weighed 7,140lbs. We had conducted three flights at or
near MGTOW- and the airplane seemed to struggle more than would be expected-
apparently this is why.
On a happier side note, we gutted the avionics and effectively rewired the
entire airplane with new, modern avionics and their associated light weight
components. Everything that wasn't required came out- and anything that
could be replaced by modern, more reliable, light weight components was
replaced. For our amusement, we were keeping an approximate weight of
everything that was taken out of the airplane- and expected to see N414C
lose 250+ lbs during this renovation.
All up weight of N414C is now accurately known: 6792lbs.
Lesson learned: Have your older airplane thrown on scales if it hasn't been
done in some time. You just never know.
Robert S. Randazzo
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: N414C Flew (finally!) |
In a message dated 12-Aug-07 10:19:42 Pacific Daylight Time,
rsrandazzo@precisionmanuals.com writes:
We had conducted three flights at or near MGTOW- and the airplane seemed to
struggle more than would be expected- apparently this is why.
Mystery solved!
Great work and congratulations, Sir!
Wing Commander Gordon
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 4
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| Subject: | N414C Flew (finally!) |
Congratulations, Bob. I cannot help but think of Bilbo's plight with his
500A. What is one to do when the experts give a clean bill of health and it
turns out to be a lemon? That's such as pity.
On the other hand, you took no chances and gave the plane a thorough
rebuild. Perhaps if Bilbo had the right information, a rebuild might have
been a better option for his ship at least returning a 'new' Commander to
the pool. But the seller, it appears, walked away with all the money that
would have been required for a rebuild plus some.
Back to N414C. If you don't think this is too forward, how much did the
rebuild set you back?
I thought I had pictures of N414C but couldn't find any, not even after the
accident in 1998. Do you have some to share?
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:16 AM
Subject: Commander-List: N414C Flew (finally!)
Commanders-
I thought you'd all be interested to know that the long derelict N414C
finally flew again after two years and two days of languishing in the rehab
hangar.
We have run a series of engine check-runs during the past few weeks as a
lead-up to flight testing, and aside from a bit of fuel flow tweaking that
was required, all was in great shape.
First flight was conducted on Friday afternoon in 94 degree heat giving us a
density altitude at 4SD of a paltry 8200'. Takeoff was conducted with 12
knots of crosswind at an all up weight of 7700lbs. Takeoff was uneventful
except for the left prop control having to be held in the full forward
position. (It tended to want to slip back to a position that nicely set
3,000 RPM.) Climbout was conducted at 37"/3000RPM, resulting in about
700-800fpm in the climb. Since the new right engine wasn't seated, we were
concerned about leaving the engine at MRCP for the climb, as the TIT was
only just within limits at such a high power setting. The engine seated
itself about 10-15 minutes into the flight, so the next takeoff will be
flown at MRCP to 1500' AGL then at 40"/3000RPM.
Both engines performed flawlessly- and since the purpose of the flight was
to validate that the airplane was mechanically flight worthy, we didn't
spend much time on the avionics. (Okay- I admit- I was mesmerized by all
the pretty stuff on the displays.) We ran through our pre-planned profile
of power settings and climbs/level flight/descent profiles. We engaged the
autopilot briefly during the flight and found that the gains need to be
adjusted slightly in roll and significantly in pitch. This plus a dozen or
so minor squawks were identified- but the airplane is in great shape
considering that she's had her innards torn out and almost completely
replaced. We are working to iron out the couple of squawks related to left
engine (oil seepage) and then N414C will be headed to Morris in California
for a wing spar inspection, and sea level adjustment of fuel flow to both
engines... (Morris is only 140nm from here- how convenient is that?!)
Monday looks to be a working day to clear up squawks, then we'll conduct
another, longer flight on Tuesday morning when the temperature is down
around 70F, in order to give the airplane some advantage.
I can't even begin to tell you how nice it was to by flying a commander
again. The entire staff at Aviation Classics here in Reno stayed nearly an
hour over on Friday afternoon to witness the test flight. There were plenty
of smiles all around when we taxied back in and shut down with an
overall-good flight report! A lot of people have invested a lot of time to
get this airplane back in the air- there are a dozen or so people who have
adopted this airplane as a result of their hard work- and it was rewarding
to all of us that they finally saw her fly! Image of new cockpit is
attached.
One interesting side note on N414C- we discovered something HORRIFYING about
our airplane on Friday morning. (Kieth & Milt: this will put your hair on
end.) When N414C was built, she was weighed at 6500lbs and flown to
California where the interior and avionics were installed. The installation
facility included the work on a 337 which listed all of the equipment
weight- and a new calculated W/B was entered into the flight manual. This
W/B was in error, as it OMITTED THE WEIGHT OF THE NEW INTERIOR AND AVIONICS
FITTINGS. To make matters worse, the airplane has not been on scales since
the date of manufacture and all other W/B updates were done as calculated
updates- so throughout the airplane's entire career, her paperwork has shown
that she weighed hundreds of pounds less than actual weight.
Since 1973, almost 200lbs of "other stuff" was added to the airplane, so
while the most current calculated W/B showed 6690lbs, we estimated that the
airplane actually weighed 7,140lbs. We had conducted three flights at or
near MGTOW- and the airplane seemed to struggle more than would be expected-
apparently this is why.
On a happier side note, we gutted the avionics and effectively rewired the
entire airplane with new, modern avionics and their associated light weight
components. Everything that wasn't required came out- and anything that
could be replaced by modern, more reliable, light weight components was
replaced. For our amusement, we were keeping an approximate weight of
everything that was taken out of the airplane- and expected to see N414C
lose 250+ lbs during this renovation.
All up weight of N414C is now accurately known: 6792lbs.
Lesson learned: Have your older airplane thrown on scales if it hasn't been
done in some time. You just never know.
Robert S. Randazzo
Message 5
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A clear data plate is here
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/Aviation/AeroCommanders/N2732B/HPIM0278
.JPG
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Collman
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 4:10 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Data plates
Hi All,
If anyone on the list owns a Commander, between Serial Numbers 691 and 895,
could take a .jpg image of their Data Plate, I'll be most grateful.
I'm trying to ascertain when the location for the Manufacturer was changed
from "Tulakes Airport, Oklahoma City, Okla." to "Bethany, Okla.".
Your help will be very much appreciated.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
Message 6
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Barry,
Take a look at http://www.teletuition.org/documents/Aviation/AeroCommanders/
and check out the zulu sierra commanders. I took pictures of some of the
data plates back in 2000, which didn't come out as I expected, but perhaps
what you are looking for might be visible.
Thanks
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Collman
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 4:10 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Data plates
Hi All,
If anyone on the list owns a Commander, between Serial Numbers 691 and 895,
could take a .jpg image of their Data Plate, I'll be most grateful.
I'm trying to ascertain when the location for the Manufacturer was changed
from "Tulakes Airport, Oklahoma City, Okla." to "Bethany, Okla.".
Your help will be very much appreciated.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
Message 7
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And here:
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/Aviation/AeroCommanders/N47RR/47RR205.j
pg
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Collman
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 4:10 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Data plates
Hi All,
If anyone on the list owns a Commander, between Serial Numbers 691 and 895,
could take a .jpg image of their Data Plate, I'll be most grateful.
I'm trying to ascertain when the location for the Manufacturer was changed
from "Tulakes Airport, Oklahoma City, Okla." to "Bethany, Okla.".
Your help will be very much appreciated.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
Message 8
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| Subject: | N414C Flew (finally!) |
Congratulations, best of luck.
bilbo
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 1:16 PM
Subject: Commander-List: N414C Flew (finally!)
Commanders-
I thought you'd all be interested to know that the long derelict N414C
finally flew again after two years and two days of languishing in the rehab
hangar.
We have run a series of engine check-runs during the past few weeks as a
lead-up to flight testing, and aside from a bit of fuel flow tweaking that
was required, all was in great shape.
First flight was conducted on Friday afternoon in 94 degree heat giving us a
density altitude at 4SD of a paltry 8200'. Takeoff was conducted with 12
knots of crosswind at an all up weight of 7700lbs. Takeoff was uneventful
except for the left prop control having to be held in the full forward
position. (It tended to want to slip back to a position that nicely set
3,000 RPM.) Climbout was conducted at 37"/3000RPM, resulting in about
700-800fpm in the climb. Since the new right engine wasn't seated, we were
concerned about leaving the engine at MRCP for the climb, as the TIT was
only just within limits at such a high power setting. The engine seated
itself about 10-15 minutes into the flight, so the next takeoff will be
flown at MRCP to 1500' AGL then at 40"/3000RPM.
Both engines performed flawlessly- and since the purpose of the flight was
to validate that the airplane was mechanically flight worthy, we didn't
spend much time on the avionics. (Okay- I admit- I was mesmerized by all
the pretty stuff on the displays.) We ran through our pre-planned profile
of power settings and climbs/level flight/descent profiles. We engaged the
autopilot briefly during the flight and found that the gains need to be
adjusted slightly in roll and significantly in pitch. This plus a dozen or
so minor squawks were identified- but the airplane is in great shape
considering that she's had her innards torn out and almost completely
replaced. We are working to iron out the couple of squawks related to left
engine (oil seepage) and then N414C will be headed to Morris in California
for a wing spar inspection, and sea level adjustment of fuel flow to both
engines... (Morris is only 140nm from here- how convenient is that?!)
Monday looks to be a working day to clear up squawks, then we'll conduct
another, longer flight on Tuesday morning when the temperature is down
around 70F, in order to give the airplane some advantage.
I can't even begin to tell you how nice it was to by flying a commander
again. The entire staff at Aviation Classics here in Reno stayed nearly an
hour over on Friday afternoon to witness the test flight. There were plenty
of smiles all around when we taxied back in and shut down with an
overall-good flight report! A lot of people have invested a lot of time to
get this airplane back in the air- there are a dozen or so people who have
adopted this airplane as a result of their hard work- and it was rewarding
to all of us that they finally saw her fly! Image of new cockpit is
attached.
One interesting side note on N414C- we discovered something HORRIFYING about
our airplane on Friday morning. (Kieth & Milt: this will put your hair on
end.) When N414C was built, she was weighed at 6500lbs and flown to
California where the interior and avionics were installed. The installation
facility included the work on a 337 which listed all of the equipment
weight- and a new calculated W/B was entered into the flight manual. This
W/B was in error, as it OMITTED THE WEIGHT OF THE NEW INTERIOR AND AVIONICS
FITTINGS. To make matters worse, the airplane has not been on scales since
the date of manufacture and all other W/B updates were done as calculated
updates- so throughout the airplane's entire career, her paperwork has shown
that she weighed hundreds of pounds less than actual weight.
Since 1973, almost 200lbs of "other stuff" was added to the airplane, so
while the most current calculated W/B showed 6690lbs, we estimated that the
airplane actually weighed 7,140lbs. We had conducted three flights at or
near MGTOW- and the airplane seemed to struggle more than would be expected-
apparently this is why.
On a happier side note, we gutted the avionics and effectively rewired the
entire airplane with new, modern avionics and their associated light weight
components. Everything that wasn't required came out- and anything that
could be replaced by modern, more reliable, light weight components was
replaced. For our amusement, we were keeping an approximate weight of
everything that was taken out of the airplane- and expected to see N414C
lose 250+ lbs during this renovation.
All up weight of N414C is now accurately known: 6792lbs.
Lesson learned: Have your older airplane thrown on scales if it hasn't been
done in some time. You just never know.
Robert S. Randazzo
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