Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:37 AM - Re: IGSO 540 Lyc ? (Moe - Ross Racing Pistons)
2. 09:52 AM - Re: 500A IO-550 Conversion (Bruce Campbell)
3. 10:03 AM - Re: IGSO 540 Lyc ? (John Vormbaum)
4. 10:34 AM - Re: IGSO 540 Lyc ? (N560WM@aol.com)
5. 11:29 AM - Re: IGSO 540 Lyc ? (asgroup@tampabay.rr.com)
6. 11:37 AM - Re: 500A IO-550 Conversion (asgroup@tampabay.rr.com)
7. 12:10 PM - Re: IGSO 540 Lyc ? (Moe - Ross Racing Pistons)
8. 12:50 PM - Re: IGSO 540 Lyc ? (Robert S. Randazzo)
9. 01:17 PM - Re: (Harry Merritt)
10. 05:51 PM - Re: IGSO 540 Lyc ? (CloudCraft@aol.com)
11. 06:31 PM - Re: IGSO 540 Lyc ? (Moe - Ross Racing Pistons)
12. 08:01 PM - My new partner Ken (brent-mueller@comcast.net)
13. 08:52 PM - Re: IGSO 540 Lyc ? (yourtcfg@aol.com)
14. 09:02 PM - fly-in (Donnie Rose)
15. 09:09 PM - Re: fly-in (CloudCraft@aol.com)
16. 10:41 PM - Re: IGSO 540 Lyc ? (Don Girod)
Message 1
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Hi Larry,
Regarding the IGSO 540 Lycoming engines:
After flying about 800 hours in my 6800F(p) with these engines, here are a
few comments:
They are the most expensive six cylinder engines to overhaul that Lycoming
makes. Also, they are the shortest TBO. Figure about 1,200 hours if flown
properly. Figure between $ 42,000.00 and $ 60,000.00 each for a good major.
Do a quality overhaul with NEW cylinders. At the same time be sure to have
the gear boxes completely rebuilt. The above figures should include a gear
drive rebuild. If the engines are B1A engines with the 12 ignition coils
mounted up on top, Continental has an STC to convert them to conventional
mags. This will be a much more trouble free system, and less expensive than
replace all of the low and high tension leads on the 12 coil set up.
Lycoming no longer has the leads available.
As far as driving a plane with these engines, a very special technique must
be learned. Treat them right and they will do a good job for you. 380 HP
per wing is a wonderful thing, and the "cool factor" can't be beat. As an
example for special driving, 1. never push the propeller levers foreword
when descending to land. Your GUMPS check becomes a GUMS check. If you
push foreword on the propeller levers you will kill the planetary gears in
short order. Never idle or taxi at below 1,200 RPM (1,500 preferred). If
you do the Simmonds injection system will surge and you can hear the gear
boxes rattling. Again this destroys them. In most cases (in most planes) do
not use take off power to take off. Unless it is a short track, and the air
is thin, or you are really heavy, the top of the green arc on both the RPM
and Manifold Pressure will still give you more power than any one else has,
and will extend the life of the engines big time.
If you seek instruction (this sounds "tacky") go fly with someone who has
paid the bills out of his (or her) own pocket for about 600 or more hours.
These engines require very special handling. Given the special handling
things will be just great!
Having said all of the above, one additional comment should be made. Some
time ago, I had an engine out on take off, 500 feet agl, fairly heavy, at
night. After going to take off power on the good engine, and getting the
inoperative engine's propeller feathered, it pretty much became a non event.
With a smaller and weaker engine the results could have been quite
different.
Personally, I would not swap my IGSO 540's for all of the Continentals that
you could stack in front of me.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
asgroup@tampabay.rr.com
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:19 PM
Subject: Commander-List: IGSO 540 Lyc ?
All,
I posted some messages earlier this year about shopping for a
Commander (a newbee), and got some great comments, which I appreciate.
Now, I've found an attractive plane with the IGSO 540s on them and am
concerned about the cost of operating, maintenance and OH costs.
Can anyone comment, goods and bads?
Larry Olson
St. Pete
On Aug 8, 2007, at 3:56 PM, Bill Bow wrote:
> Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander
> owner. I wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I
> bought it as I would still own it today.
>
> I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with
> a few of those involved in the Commander community. However, I
> have decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives
> a s---- anyway. I have made a lot of good friends on this list
> some that I will probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot
> more good guys here than "gold diggers".
>
> I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this
> list "Commander ownership is not for everybody".
>
> Well, it's not for me.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bill Bow
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List _-
> ===========================================================
Message 2
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| Subject: | 500A IO-550 Conversion |
The IO-550 had a recall just after I bought mine. They had a number of
poorly nickelled cylinders and wanted everyone who bought one to get an
inspection, then the bad cylinders would be replaced. I never thought
that would work, since they didn't keep track of the serial numbers of
the bad cylinders, or what engines they went on. I was, BTW, highly
less than thrilled to be exposed to having my factory new engine turn
into a field overhaul to new specs at 10 hours operation time.
Continental was very clear they really didn't see that as their problem.
The actual words of the TCM rep at Oshkosh were a very snarky "If you
don't like it, sue us." It didn't come to that because the inspection
showed no problem.
I suspect he got some of those bad cylinders, and they didn't find them
in the inspection, or something similar.
Just to be clear, I don't personally recommend TCM engines, period. I
think their customer orientation and business practices are very poor
indeed. I *do* think that if you are using IO 520s that the IO 550 is a
better deal from a number of directions, for essentially the same price.
But, if you can upgrade from IO520s to current production Lycomings
(500A to 500B conversion+STC(?)) that would be better still.
Bruce
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
KenWHyde@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A IO-550 Conversion
Guys,
When I saw this e-mail regarding the IO-550 conversion, I thought this
is great...then I called a friend who bought a NEW Beech A36 with all
the horns and whistles about 5 years ago and I ask him about the IO-550.
The man knows engines...and he says "I It is the most disgusting, badly
engineered piece of machinery that I can remember buying. I have had to
replace at least three cylinders in 1000 hours and I am now having to
replace the whole engine because corrosion has ruined the cylinders,
camshafts and followers. All of this in spite of following Continental's
book recommendations, Flight Safety's cooling rec's. and changing the
oil every 25 hours. It is the worst aircraft engine I have ever owned
and is the first that I've owned since new."
"Can you believe corrosion on an engine that averages more than 150 hrs
a year. (always hanger kept)
It never actually broke down in flight!" A friend of his has a A36 plus
a Baron...same engine..lots of problems, Baron making metal both
engines. New airplanes guys. I'm sure others have heard the war stories.
Hey, don't shoot me....I am just relaying the message.
________________________________
AOL.com.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: IGSO 540 Lyc ? |
Wow Moe, nicely said! I think that about covers it....
/John
Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote:
>
> Hi Larry,
>
> Regarding the IGSO 540 Lycoming engines:
>
> After flying about 800 hours in my 6800F(p) with these engines, here are a
> few comments:
>
> They are the most expensive six cylinder engines to overhaul that Lycoming
> makes. Also, they are the shortest TBO. Figure about 1,200 hours if flown
> properly. Figure between $ 42,000.00 and $ 60,000.00 each for a good major.
> Do a quality overhaul with NEW cylinders. At the same time be sure to have
> the gear boxes completely rebuilt. The above figures should include a gear
> drive rebuild. If the engines are B1A engines with the 12 ignition coils
> mounted up on top, Continental has an STC to convert them to conventional
> mags. This will be a much more trouble free system, and less expensive than
> replace all of the low and high tension leads on the 12 coil set up.
> Lycoming no longer has the leads available.
>
> As far as driving a plane with these engines, a very special technique must
> be learned. Treat them right and they will do a good job for you. 380 HP
> per wing is a wonderful thing, and the "cool factor" can't be beat. As an
> example for special driving, 1. never push the propeller levers foreword
> when descending to land. Your GUMPS check becomes a GUMS check. If you
> push foreword on the propeller levers you will kill the planetary gears in
> short order. Never idle or taxi at below 1,200 RPM (1,500 preferred). If
> you do the Simmonds injection system will surge and you can hear the gear
> boxes rattling. Again this destroys them. In most cases (in most planes) do
> not use take off power to take off. Unless it is a short track, and the air
> is thin, or you are really heavy, the top of the green arc on both the RPM
> and Manifold Pressure will still give you more power than any one else has,
> and will extend the life of the engines big time.
>
> If you seek instruction (this sounds "tacky") go fly with someone who has
> paid the bills out of his (or her) own pocket for about 600 or more hours.
> These engines require very special handling. Given the special handling
> things will be just great!
>
> Having said all of the above, one additional comment should be made. Some
> time ago, I had an engine out on take off, 500 feet agl, fairly heavy, at
> night. After going to take off power on the good engine, and getting the
> inoperative engine's propeller feathered, it pretty much became a non event.
> With a smaller and weaker engine the results could have been quite
> different.
>
> Personally, I would not swap my IGSO 540's for all of the Continentals that
> you could stack in front of me.
>
> Moe Mills
> N680RR
> 680F(p)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> asgroup@tampabay.rr.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:19 PM
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: IGSO 540 Lyc ?
>
>
> All,
>
> I posted some messages earlier this year about shopping for a
> Commander (a newbee), and got some great comments, which I appreciate.
>
> Now, I've found an attractive plane with the IGSO 540s on them and am
> concerned about the cost of operating, maintenance and OH costs.
>
> Can anyone comment, goods and bads?
>
>
> Larry Olson
> St. Pete
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2007, at 3:56 PM, Bill Bow wrote:
>
>
>> Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander
>> owner. I wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I
>> bought it as I would still own it today.
>>
>> I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with
>> a few of those involved in the Commander community. However, I
>> have decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives
>> a s---- anyway. I have made a lot of good friends on this list
>> some that I will probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot
>> more good guys here than "gold diggers".
>>
>> I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this
>> list "Commander ownership is not for everybody".
>>
>> Well, it's not for me.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Bill Bow
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List _-
>> ===========================================================
>>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2481 (20070823) Information __________
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: IGSO 540 Lyc ? |
I agree, I do the same on my 560F and would not change them
AB
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: IGSO 540 Lyc ? |
Moe,
Thanks much. What kind of performance do you plan on? Speed, fuel
consumption, range? Also, do you operate them lean of peak?
Larry Olson
St. Pete
On Aug 24, 2007, at 10:41 AM, Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote:
> <moe@rosspistons.com>
>
> Hi Larry,
>
> Regarding the IGSO 540 Lycoming engines:
>
> After flying about 800 hours in my 6800F(p) with these engines,
> here are a
> few comments:
>
> They are the most expensive six cylinder engines to overhaul that
> Lycoming
> makes. Also, they are the shortest TBO. Figure about 1,200 hours
> if flown
> properly. Figure between $ 42,000.00 and $ 60,000.00 each for a
> good major.
> Do a quality overhaul with NEW cylinders. At the same time be sure
> to have
> the gear boxes completely rebuilt. The above figures should include
> a gear
> drive rebuild. If the engines are B1A engines with the 12 ignition
> coils
> mounted up on top, Continental has an STC to convert them to
> conventional
> mags. This will be a much more trouble free system, and less
> expensive than
> replace all of the low and high tension leads on the 12 coil set up.
> Lycoming no longer has the leads available.
>
> As far as driving a plane with these engines, a very special
> technique must
> be learned. Treat them right and they will do a good job for you.
> 380 HP
> per wing is a wonderful thing, and the "cool factor" can't be
> beat. As an
> example for special driving, 1. never push the propeller levers
> foreword
> when descending to land. Your GUMPS check becomes a GUMS check.
> If you
> push foreword on the propeller levers you will kill the planetary
> gears in
> short order. Never idle or taxi at below 1,200 RPM (1,500
> preferred). If
> you do the Simmonds injection system will surge and you can hear
> the gear
> boxes rattling. Again this destroys them. In most cases (in most
> planes) do
> not use take off power to take off. Unless it is a short track,
> and the air
> is thin, or you are really heavy, the top of the green arc on both
> the RPM
> and Manifold Pressure will still give you more power than any one
> else has,
> and will extend the life of the engines big time.
>
> If you seek instruction (this sounds "tacky") go fly with someone
> who has
> paid the bills out of his (or her) own pocket for about 600 or more
> hours.
> These engines require very special handling. Given the special
> handling
> things will be just great!
>
> Having said all of the above, one additional comment should be
> made. Some
> time ago, I had an engine out on take off, 500 feet agl, fairly
> heavy, at
> night. After going to take off power on the good engine, and
> getting the
> inoperative engine's propeller feathered, it pretty much became a
> non event.
> With a smaller and weaker engine the results could have been quite
> different.
>
> Personally, I would not swap my IGSO 540's for all of the
> Continentals that
> you could stack in front of me.
>
> Moe Mills
> N680RR
> 680F(p)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> asgroup@tampabay.rr.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:19 PM
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: IGSO 540 Lyc ?
>
>
> All,
>
> I posted some messages earlier this year about shopping for a
> Commander (a newbee), and got some great comments, which I appreciate.
>
> Now, I've found an attractive plane with the IGSO 540s on them and am
> concerned about the cost of operating, maintenance and OH costs.
>
> Can anyone comment, goods and bads?
>
>
> Larry Olson
> St. Pete
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2007, at 3:56 PM, Bill Bow wrote:
>
>> Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander
>> owner. I wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I
>> bought it as I would still own it today.
>>
>> I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with
>> a few of those involved in the Commander community. However, I
>> have decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives
>> a s---- anyway. I have made a lot of good friends on this list
>> some that I will probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot
>> more good guys here than "gold diggers".
>>
>> I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this
>> list "Commander ownership is not for everybody".
>>
>> Well, it's not for me.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Bill Bow
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List _-
>> ===========================================================
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 500A IO-550 Conversion |
All,
First, I must have missed it, but what airframes is the IO550
conversion for, and who offers the STC? Thx.
Now, I must comment on the Continental vs. Lyc debate, and we could
run this forever. But, I'm running a pair of IO550Cs in our Baron
that have performed flawlessly over the last 800 hours since new.
I've also got 1000s of hours behind the 520s and the Lyc TSIO 540s.
They both have their goods and bads and issues. I've had fairly good
luck with all of them. I did have to top the Lycs but I haven't had
but a few cylinders of of the Continental 520 and 470s over ~5000
hours of operation, and most go beyond TBO. The Continentals seem to
be more fuel efficient but the Lycs seems to be stronger. Just a
feeling.... no data.
Food for thought.
Larry Olson
St. Pete
On Aug 24, 2007, at 12:51 PM, Bruce Campbell wrote:
> The IO-550 had a recall just after I bought mine. They had a
> number of poorly nickelled cylinders and wanted everyone who bought
> one to get an inspection, then the bad cylinders would be
> replaced. I never thought that would work, since they didnt keep
> track of the serial numbers of the bad cylinders, or what engines
> they went on. I was, BTW, highly less than thrilled to be exposed
> to having my factory new engine turn into a field overhaul to new
> specs at 10 hours operation time. Continental was very clear they
> really didnt see that as their problem. The actual words of the
> TCM rep at Oshkosh were a very snarky If you dont like it, sue
> us. It didnt come to that because the inspection showed no
> problem.
>
>
> I suspect he got some of those bad cylinders, and they didnt find
> them in the inspection, or something similar.
>
>
> Just to be clear, I dont personally recommend TCM engines,
> period. I think their customer orientation and business practices
> are very poor indeed. I *do* think that if you are using IO 520s
> that the IO 550 is a better deal from a number of directions, for
> essentially the same price. But, if you can upgrade from IO520s to
> current production Lycomings (500A to 500B conversion+STC(?)) that
> would be better still.
>
>
> Bruce
>
>
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KenWHyde@aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:32 PM
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A IO-550 Conversion
>
>
> Guys,
>
>
> When I saw this e-mail regarding the IO-550 conversion, I thought
> this is great...then I called a friend who bought a NEW Beech A36
> with all the horns and whistles about 5 years ago and I ask him
> about the IO-550. The man knows engines...and he says "I It is the
> most disgusting, badly engineered piece of machinery that I can
> remember buying. I have had to replace at least three cylinders in
> 1000 hours and I am now having to replace the whole engine because
> corrosion has ruined the cylinders, camshafts and followers. All of
> this in spite of following Continental's book recommendations,
> Flight Safety's cooling rec's. and changing the oil every 25 hours.
> It is the worst aircraft engine I have ever owned and is the first
> that I've owned since new."
>
> "Can you believe corrosion on an engine that averages more than 150
> hrs a year. (always hanger kept)
>
> It never actually broke down in flight!" A friend of his has a A36
> plus a Baron...same engine..lots of problems, Baron making metal
> both engines. New airplanes guys. I'm sure others have heard the
> war stories. Hey, don't shoot me....I am just relaying the message.
>
>
> AOL.com.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://
> forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_-
> ============================================================ _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ===========================================================
Message 7
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Larry,
I generally run full rich during climb out and decent. Generally, the plane
seems to like about 15,000 through 17,999 altitudes. After leveling off at
altitude, lean to 100'F. lean of peak. At that point the engine is running
so lean that it can't hurt its self about 60 to 65% of total power or about
240 HP per side. Don't forget to go back to full rich before descending and
be careful of the manifold pressure when descending as the pressure can come
up pretty quick as the air gets thicker and it is very easy to over boost
the engines. Also be careful on the ground when you advance the throttles,
as you can over boost the engines big time!
The Simmons injection system will keep the engines with about the right
fuel/ air mixture going up and coming down.
What type of plane are you considering?
If you would like to talk some time call me at 31o.536.0100. Be sure to
tell our receptionist that you are "from the airport" or you may get the old
"he is currently not here and we don't expect him back for a few years"
routine.
Regards,
Moe
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
asgroup@tampabay.rr.com
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: IGSO 540 Lyc ?
Moe,
Thanks much. What kind of performance do you plan on? Speed, fuel
consumption, range? Also, do you operate them lean of peak?
Larry Olson
St. Pete
On Aug 24, 2007, at 10:41 AM, Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote:
> <moe@rosspistons.com>
>
> Hi Larry,
>
> Regarding the IGSO 540 Lycoming engines:
>
> After flying about 800 hours in my 6800F(p) with these engines,
> here are a
> few comments:
>
> They are the most expensive six cylinder engines to overhaul that
> Lycoming
> makes. Also, they are the shortest TBO. Figure about 1,200 hours
> if flown
> properly. Figure between $ 42,000.00 and $ 60,000.00 each for a
> good major.
> Do a quality overhaul with NEW cylinders. At the same time be sure
> to have
> the gear boxes completely rebuilt. The above figures should include
> a gear
> drive rebuild. If the engines are B1A engines with the 12 ignition
> coils
> mounted up on top, Continental has an STC to convert them to
> conventional
> mags. This will be a much more trouble free system, and less
> expensive than
> replace all of the low and high tension leads on the 12 coil set up.
> Lycoming no longer has the leads available.
>
> As far as driving a plane with these engines, a very special
> technique must
> be learned. Treat them right and they will do a good job for you.
> 380 HP
> per wing is a wonderful thing, and the "cool factor" can't be
> beat. As an
> example for special driving, 1. never push the propeller levers
> foreword
> when descending to land. Your GUMPS check becomes a GUMS check.
> If you
> push foreword on the propeller levers you will kill the planetary
> gears in
> short order. Never idle or taxi at below 1,200 RPM (1,500
> preferred). If
> you do the Simmonds injection system will surge and you can hear
> the gear
> boxes rattling. Again this destroys them. In most cases (in most
> planes) do
> not use take off power to take off. Unless it is a short track,
> and the air
> is thin, or you are really heavy, the top of the green arc on both
> the RPM
> and Manifold Pressure will still give you more power than any one
> else has,
> and will extend the life of the engines big time.
>
> If you seek instruction (this sounds "tacky") go fly with someone
> who has
> paid the bills out of his (or her) own pocket for about 600 or more
> hours.
> These engines require very special handling. Given the special
> handling
> things will be just great!
>
> Having said all of the above, one additional comment should be
> made. Some
> time ago, I had an engine out on take off, 500 feet agl, fairly
> heavy, at
> night. After going to take off power on the good engine, and
> getting the
> inoperative engine's propeller feathered, it pretty much became a
> non event.
> With a smaller and weaker engine the results could have been quite
> different.
>
> Personally, I would not swap my IGSO 540's for all of the
> Continentals that
> you could stack in front of me.
>
> Moe Mills
> N680RR
> 680F(p)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> asgroup@tampabay.rr.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:19 PM
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: IGSO 540 Lyc ?
>
>
> All,
>
> I posted some messages earlier this year about shopping for a
> Commander (a newbee), and got some great comments, which I appreciate.
>
> Now, I've found an attractive plane with the IGSO 540s on them and am
> concerned about the cost of operating, maintenance and OH costs.
>
> Can anyone comment, goods and bads?
>
>
> Larry Olson
> St. Pete
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2007, at 3:56 PM, Bill Bow wrote:
>
>> Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander
>> owner. I wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I
>> bought it as I would still own it today.
>>
>> I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with
>> a few of those involved in the Commander community. However, I
>> have decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives
>> a s---- anyway. I have made a lot of good friends on this list
>> some that I will probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot
>> more good guys here than "gold diggers".
>>
>> I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this
>> list "Commander ownership is not for everybody".
>>
>> Well, it's not for me.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Bill Bow
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List _-
>> ===========================================================
>
>
Message 8
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Moe-
Can I send our secretary's for training with yours?
Robert Randazzo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe - Ross
Racing Pistons
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 12:14 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: IGSO 540 Lyc ?
<moe@rosspistons.com>
Larry,
I generally run full rich during climb out and decent. Generally, the plane
seems to like about 15,000 through 17,999 altitudes. After leveling off at
altitude, lean to 100'F. lean of peak. At that point the engine is running
so lean that it can't hurt its self about 60 to 65% of total power or about
240 HP per side. Don't forget to go back to full rich before descending and
be careful of the manifold pressure when descending as the pressure can come
up pretty quick as the air gets thicker and it is very easy to over boost
the engines. Also be careful on the ground when you advance the throttles,
as you can over boost the engines big time!
The Simmons injection system will keep the engines with about the right
fuel/ air mixture going up and coming down.
What type of plane are you considering?
If you would like to talk some time call me at 31o.536.0100. Be sure to
tell our receptionist that you are "from the airport" or you may get the old
"he is currently not here and we don't expect him back for a few years"
routine.
Regards,
Moe
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
asgroup@tampabay.rr.com
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: IGSO 540 Lyc ?
Moe,
Thanks much. What kind of performance do you plan on? Speed, fuel
consumption, range? Also, do you operate them lean of peak?
Larry Olson
St. Pete
On Aug 24, 2007, at 10:41 AM, Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote:
> <moe@rosspistons.com>
>
> Hi Larry,
>
> Regarding the IGSO 540 Lycoming engines:
>
> After flying about 800 hours in my 6800F(p) with these engines,
> here are a
> few comments:
>
> They are the most expensive six cylinder engines to overhaul that
> Lycoming
> makes. Also, they are the shortest TBO. Figure about 1,200 hours
> if flown
> properly. Figure between $ 42,000.00 and $ 60,000.00 each for a
> good major.
> Do a quality overhaul with NEW cylinders. At the same time be sure
> to have
> the gear boxes completely rebuilt. The above figures should include
> a gear
> drive rebuild. If the engines are B1A engines with the 12 ignition
> coils
> mounted up on top, Continental has an STC to convert them to
> conventional
> mags. This will be a much more trouble free system, and less
> expensive than
> replace all of the low and high tension leads on the 12 coil set up.
> Lycoming no longer has the leads available.
>
> As far as driving a plane with these engines, a very special
> technique must
> be learned. Treat them right and they will do a good job for you.
> 380 HP
> per wing is a wonderful thing, and the "cool factor" can't be
> beat. As an
> example for special driving, 1. never push the propeller levers
> foreword
> when descending to land. Your GUMPS check becomes a GUMS check.
> If you
> push foreword on the propeller levers you will kill the planetary
> gears in
> short order. Never idle or taxi at below 1,200 RPM (1,500
> preferred). If
> you do the Simmonds injection system will surge and you can hear
> the gear
> boxes rattling. Again this destroys them. In most cases (in most
> planes) do
> not use take off power to take off. Unless it is a short track,
> and the air
> is thin, or you are really heavy, the top of the green arc on both
> the RPM
> and Manifold Pressure will still give you more power than any one
> else has,
> and will extend the life of the engines big time.
>
> If you seek instruction (this sounds "tacky") go fly with someone
> who has
> paid the bills out of his (or her) own pocket for about 600 or more
> hours.
> These engines require very special handling. Given the special
> handling
> things will be just great!
>
> Having said all of the above, one additional comment should be
> made. Some
> time ago, I had an engine out on take off, 500 feet agl, fairly
> heavy, at
> night. After going to take off power on the good engine, and
> getting the
> inoperative engine's propeller feathered, it pretty much became a
> non event.
> With a smaller and weaker engine the results could have been quite
> different.
>
> Personally, I would not swap my IGSO 540's for all of the
> Continentals that
> you could stack in front of me.
>
> Moe Mills
> N680RR
> 680F(p)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> asgroup@tampabay.rr.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:19 PM
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: IGSO 540 Lyc ?
>
>
> All,
>
> I posted some messages earlier this year about shopping for a
> Commander (a newbee), and got some great comments, which I appreciate.
>
> Now, I've found an attractive plane with the IGSO 540s on them and am
> concerned about the cost of operating, maintenance and OH costs.
>
> Can anyone comment, goods and bads?
>
>
> Larry Olson
> St. Pete
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2007, at 3:56 PM, Bill Bow wrote:
>
>> Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander
>> owner. I wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I
>> bought it as I would still own it today.
>>
>> I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with
>> a few of those involved in the Commander community. However, I
>> have decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives
>> a s---- anyway. I have made a lot of good friends on this list
>> some that I will probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot
>> more good guys here than "gold diggers".
>>
>> I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this
>> list "Commander ownership is not for everybody".
>>
>> Well, it's not for me.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Bill Bow
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List _-
>> ===========================================================
>
>
__________ NOD32 2483 (20070824) Information __________
Message 9
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|
| Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
Shippe today for monday $ 449.75
i put a shipping lable in the packing list pouch to return the old
valves
Thanks ( i will get seat bolts tommorow
Harry
----- Original Message -----
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List:
hm, tnx ur help. pls fwd two(2) each of the fuel shutoff valves part
#AV16B1159 and required O-rings four(4) part#S-0310-219F to PRO
AVIATION 221 AVIATION WAY #200
Fort Worth, Texas 76106. monday morn AM delivery. enclose invoice
for $400.00 and I will send you a "good" check to the return address.
thank you mason 817-517-4977
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: avtec2@bellsouth.net
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:27:11 -0400
i do
Harry
321 267-3141
----- Original Message -----
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER
To: commander-list
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:59 PM
Subject: Commander-List:
anyone have a fuel shut off valve pn AV16B1159 and the O-rings
S-0310-219F x4 to install. PCAA mason
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
p://forums.matronics.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: IGSO 540 Lyc ? |
Isn't this email net terrific? You can actually get information built upon
experience here.
Thanks, Moe.
Wing Commander Gordon
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 11
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Wing Commander Gordon,
After reading your words of wit and wisdom for quite some time now, it
seemed only fitting that I should finally write something other than my
usual request for free technical information.
Best regards,
Moe
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
CloudCraft@aol.com
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: IGSO 540 Lyc ?
Isn't this email net terrific? You can actually get information built upon
experience here.
Thanks, Moe.
Wing Commander Gordon
AOL.com.
Message 12
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| Subject: | My new partner Ken |
Hello everyone,
Just wanted all to know, I have a new partner in the AC-560E. I am sure he will
be surfing thru this good site & asking questions. Please give him a warm welcome.
His name is Ken.
Have a great weekend.
Brent - N224HA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130911#130911
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: IGSO 540 Lyc ? |
REALLY WELL SAID, GREAT ADVICE.? THANKS MOE!!!? jb
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe - Ross Racing Pistons <moe@rosspistons.com>
Sent: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 7:41 am
Subject: RE: Commander-List: IGSO 540 Lyc ?
<moe@rosspistons.com>
Hi Larry,
Regarding the IGSO 540 Lycoming engines:
After flying about 800 hours in my 6800F(p) with these engines, here are a
few comments:
They are the most expensive six cylinder engines to overhaul that Lycoming
makes. Also, they are the shortest TBO. Figure about 1,200 hours if flown
properly. Figure between $ 42,000.00 and $ 60,000.00 each for a good major.
Do a quality overhaul with NEW cylinders. At the same time be sure to have
the gear boxes completely rebuilt. The above figures should include a gear
drive rebuild. If the engines are B1A engines with the 12 ignition coils
mounted up on top, Continental has an STC to convert them to conventional
mags. This will be a much more trouble free system, and less expensive than
replace all of the low and high tension leads on the 12 coil set up.
Lycoming no longer has the leads available.
As far as driving a plane with these engines, a very special technique must
be learned. Treat them right and they will do a good job for you. 380 HP
per wing is a wonderful thing, and the "cool factor" can't be beat. As an
example for special driving, 1. never push the propeller levers foreword
when descending to land. Your GUMPS check becomes a GUMS check. If you
push foreword on the propeller levers you will kill the planetary gears in
short order. Never idle or taxi at below 1,200 RPM (1,500 preferred). If
you do the Simmonds injection system will surge and you can hear the gear
boxes rattling. Again this destroys them. In most cases (in most planes) do
not use take off power to take off. Unless it is a short track, and the air
is thin, or you are really heavy, the top of the green arc on both the RPM
and Manifold Pressure will still give you more power than any one else has,
and will extend the life of the engines big time.
If you seek instruction (this sounds "tacky") go fly with someone who has
paid the bills out of his (or her) own pocket for about 600 or more hours.
These engines require very special handling. Given the special handling
things will be just great!
Having said all of the above, one additional comment should be made. Some
time ago, I had an engine out on take off, 500 feet agl, fairly heavy, at
night. After going to take off power on the good engine, and getting the
inoperative engine's propeller feathered, it pretty much became a non event.
With a smaller and weaker engine the results could have been quite
different.
Personally, I would not swap my IGSO 540's for all of the Continentals that
you could stack in front of me.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
asgroup@tampabay.rr.com
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:19 PM
Subject: Commander-List: IGSO 540 Lyc ?
All,
I posted some messages earlier this year about shopping for a
Commander (a newbee), and got some great comments, which I appreciate.
Now, I've found an attractive plane with the IGSO 540s on them and am
concerned about the cost of operating, maintenance and OH costs.
Can anyone comment, goods and bads?
Larry Olson
St. Pete
On Aug 8, 2007, at 3:56 PM, Bill Bow wrote:
> Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander
> owner. I wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I
> bought it as I would still own it today.
>
> I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with
> a few of those involved in the Commander community. However, I
> have decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives
> a s---- anyway. I have made a lot of good friends on this list
> some that I will probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot
> more good guys here than "gold diggers".
>
> I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this
> list "Commander ownership is not for everybody".
>
> Well, it's not for me.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bill Bow
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List _-
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Message 14
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Nico, Wing Commander Gordon, Bill and everyone,=0A I truly regret that I
will not be able as I previously stated to attend the fly-in. I hope I hav
e not inconvenienced anyone who had planned to catch a ride with me. I am a
corporate pilot and have been assigned a trip that is inescapable on those
dates. I sure was looking forward to meeting all of you!=0AHave a great ti
me and best regards,=0A =0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A=0A=0A =0A__
___________________________________________________________________________
_______=0ATake the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocke
t: mail, news, photos & more. =0Ahttp://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
Message 15
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In a message dated 24-Aug-07 21:03:12 Pacific Daylight Time,
aquadiver99@yahoo.com writes:
Nico, Wing Commander Gordon, Bill and everyone,
I truly regret that I will not be able as I previously stated to attend
the fly-in. I hope I have not inconvenienced anyone who had planned to catch a
ride with me. I am a corporate pilot and have been assigned a trip that is
inescapable on those dates. I sure was looking forward to meeting all of you!
Exact same problem for me.
Wing Commander Gordon
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: IGSO 540 Lyc ? |
Moe;
Sounds like a man after my own heart. 'Tacky' advice or not, I agree! I
do believe in 'babying' my Commander and it's engines. Believe if I take
care of them, they will take care of me. And nobody looks after your money
like you do. Totally opposite of "drive it like you stole it". My 560E
turned FIFTY this year, so need to treat it with lots of TLC.
Even when it wasn't mine, I tried to treat them gently, think that has
something to do with why in 20K hrs flying I have never lost an engine or
had an emergency. Always saved them for the simulator. Tomorrow that could
all change, but am a big believer in a gentle hand.
Don
> <moe@rosspistons.com>
>
> Hi Larry,
>
> Regarding the IGSO 540 Lycoming engines:
>
> After flying about 800 hours in my 6800F(p) with these engines, here are a
> few comments:
>
> They are the most expensive six cylinder engines to overhaul that Lycoming
> makes. Also, they are the shortest TBO. Figure about 1,200 hours if flown
> properly. Figure between $ 42,000.00 and $ 60,000.00 each for a good
> major.
> Do a quality overhaul with NEW cylinders. At the same time be sure to
> have
> the gear boxes completely rebuilt. The above figures should include a gear
> drive rebuild. If the engines are B1A engines with the 12 ignition coils
> mounted up on top, Continental has an STC to convert them to conventional
> mags. This will be a much more trouble free system, and less expensive
> than
> replace all of the low and high tension leads on the 12 coil set up.
> Lycoming no longer has the leads available.
>
> As far as driving a plane with these engines, a very special technique
> must
> be learned. Treat them right and they will do a good job for you. 380 HP
> per wing is a wonderful thing, and the "cool factor" can't be beat. As an
> example for special driving, 1. never push the propeller levers foreword
> when descending to land. Your GUMPS check becomes a GUMS check. If you
> push foreword on the propeller levers you will kill the planetary gears in
> short order. Never idle or taxi at below 1,200 RPM (1,500 preferred). If
> you do the Simmonds injection system will surge and you can hear the gear
> boxes rattling. Again this destroys them. In most cases (in most planes)
> do
> not use take off power to take off. Unless it is a short track, and the
> air
> is thin, or you are really heavy, the top of the green arc on both the RPM
> and Manifold Pressure will still give you more power than any one else
> has,
> and will extend the life of the engines big time.
>
> If you seek instruction (this sounds "tacky") go fly with someone who has
> paid the bills out of his (or her) own pocket for about 600 or more hours.
> These engines require very special handling. Given the special handling
> things will be just great!
>
> Having said all of the above, one additional comment should be made. Some
> time ago, I had an engine out on take off, 500 feet agl, fairly heavy, at
> night. After going to take off power on the good engine, and getting the
> inoperative engine's propeller feathered, it pretty much became a non
> event.
> With a smaller and weaker engine the results could have been quite
> different.
>
> Personally, I would not swap my IGSO 540's for all of the Continentals
> that
> you could stack in front of me.
>
> Moe Mills
> N680RR
> 680F(p)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> asgroup@tampabay.rr.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:19 PM
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: IGSO 540 Lyc ?
>
>
> All,
>
> I posted some messages earlier this year about shopping for a
> Commander (a newbee), and got some great comments, which I appreciate.
>
> Now, I've found an attractive plane with the IGSO 540s on them and am
> concerned about the cost of operating, maintenance and OH costs.
>
> Can anyone comment, goods and bads?
>
>
> Larry Olson
> St. Pete
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2007, at 3:56 PM, Bill Bow wrote:
>
>> Well, it is finished. As of Monday I became an ex-Commander
>> owner. I wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I
>> bought it as I would still own it today.
>>
>> I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with
>> a few of those involved in the Commander community. However, I
>> have decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives
>> a s---- anyway. I have made a lot of good friends on this list
>> some that I will probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot
>> more good guys here than "gold diggers".
>>
>> I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this
>> list "Commander ownership is not for everybody".
>>
>> Well, it's not for me.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Bill Bow
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List _-
>> ===========================================================
>
>
> --
> 4:04 PM
>
>
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