---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/29/07: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:45 AM - Re: Weird 747 shadow (Steve @ Col-East) 2. 05:47 AM - Re: Oil Leak [bcc][faked-from] (Brock Lorber) 3. 06:14 AM - Re: Weird 747 shadow (bertberry1@aol.com) 4. 06:46 AM - Attending your first Fly-In? (Barry Collman) 5. 07:32 AM - Re: Weird 747 shadow (David Owens) 6. 07:33 AM - Re: Oil Leak (Moe - Ross Racing Pistons) 7. 10:40 AM - Re: Oil Leak (Bruce Campbell) 8. 01:23 PM - Re: Oil Leak [bcc][faked-from] (nico css) 9. 02:12 PM - Re: Oil Leak [bcc][faked-from] (David Owens) 10. 02:14 PM - Re: Oil Leak [bcc][faked-from] (David Owens) 11. 05:16 PM - Re: Attending your first Fly-In? (Myron Ashley) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:45:01 AM PST US From: "Steve @ Col-East" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weird 747 shadow Hi Andrew, It gets a little complicated...... The 3D effect is used by many companies to create the terrain model used by so many applications. It could be flight simulators, or GPS units with ground proximity in them.... What Google is doing is using that model to 'drape' their imagery over it to give you that 3D effect. I'll take a look at those examples when I am back at a fast modem, but I have another 'possible' explanation for what you are seeing. In order for an orthophoto to be scaled properly the original photo has to stretched and shrunk to fit the terrain. Think of the left side of a photo as having a mountain, and the right side with a valley. The two sides of one photo will have different scales...... This effect is further complicated by the fact that only in the center of the image is the camera looking directly down, vertically. For most of the image, the subject is at more and more of an angle off center. This 'looking off center' is not an insolvable problem as long as the object is draped onto the terrain model. But any object that stands proud from the terrain model is going to be put in the wrong place. The higher something is, and the further off perpendicular from under the camera, the more horizontal error will be introduced when the object is forced down to the terrain model. So tall buildings will appear misplaced. Aircraft could appear a great distance from where they should have been on the earth directly beneath them..... The simple answer is; every image pixel needs a proper elevation in order to be placed accurately in horizontal. As for multiple images causing ortho-weirdness, it does all the time. Things like a baseball field with way too many players and a bunch of other errors, some of them quite funny...... David Owens, on this list, I'm sure takes quite a lot of imagery destined for ortho photos also, with their Colemill 500A..... Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: andrew.bridget@telus.net To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:58 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weird 747 shadow Hi, yes, Nico,I think Steve is likely right; I only read his post after I responded. Talk about opening my yap before I have all the info :-) Found some other aircraft with ghosted shadows. No I didn't scan Google Earth ... well I did look at O'Hare to see if there were any on approach/climbout, and at Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary, and ... but then I gave up and cheated by looking at http://www.gearthhacks.com/dlcat24/Aircraft-in-flight.htm Steve, given this, is it not possible that two photos are taken and then overlaid to give the 3D effect when one tilts the earth to a more horizontal plane? (pun unintended) This would explain the aircraft "moving on". In each of the ghosted shadows the ghost aircraft appears to be on (or slightly higher) than the clear aircraft. However, on a slower aircraft (like the helicopter, or aircraft on finals) there isn't any ghosting.This would add to the theory that the aircraft has moved on - only fast aircraft appear to be ghosted. Blessings Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:23 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Weird 747 shadow Hi Andrew. I don't think so, because the 747 would have to have drifted south without any forward movement. The shadows of the surrounding structures indicate that it's early morning, so in that respect the blue shadow is in the right place. What is a bit off, I would say, is that the shadow indicates that the sun is slightly south of the 747, which is impossible seeing that Johannesburg is 26 deg south and the sun never gets further south than 23.5 deg. However, if the shadow was moved due to manipulation of the satellite photographs, then it might not show where it actually was. Steve gave an excellent explanation: satellite photos are not regular photos but orthophotos, which are programmatically manipulated to make the individual satellite images fit seamlessly in one image, and perhaps some shift could have changed the color of the shadow. Steve I apologize if my paraphrasing what you said has lost the message. Who knows, but it is very interesting. Nico ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrew.bridget@telus.net Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:05 PM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weird 747 shadow > Look at google earth at this location: 26 02 03 S, 28 14 04 E Yes, very interesting - note that the ghosted image is above the 'clear' 747 - I wonder if it has something to do with a second photo taken immediately after the first; the 747 having moved on since the first? I'm sure there's a better explanation... God bless, Andrew href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:30 AM PST US Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oil Leak [bcc][faked-from] From: "Brock Lorber" The very best solution to oil leaking valve covers is not over-torquing the screws that hold them on. When the screws are over-torqued, they pucker the thin metal and ruin the seal with any gaskets. Keep the cork gaskets and get new valve covers. Torque the screws (with star washers) exactly as published in the overhaul manual (~ 20 inch pounds, barely more than snug). Brock -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of brent-mueller@comcast.net Sent: Tue 8/28/2007 9:21 PM Subject: Commander-List: Oil Leak [bcc][faked-from] -Greetings- Our valve covers leak some. what is the very best solution to oil leaking valve covers. I was told silicon ones are the ones to use, we have cork now. If cork expands with the warm oil then flattens when not run for a bit, whats th advantage over silcone? Take Care, Brent Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131505#131505 3D======================== 3D========= 3D======================== 3D========= 3D======================== 3D========= ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weird 747 shadow From: bertberry1@aol.com For what its worth, I think it has to do with shutter speed. Slower shutter speed which allows better detail. In addition, a lot of these are not sat photos but are aerial photos that are piece milled in. Bert Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: To: Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weird 747 shadow Hi, yes, Nico,I think Steve is likely right; I only read his post after I responded. Talk about opening my yap before I have all the info :-) Found some other aircraft with ghosted shadows. No I didn't scan Google Earth... well I did look at O'Hare to see if there were any on approach/climbout, and at Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary, and ... but then I gave up andcheatedbylooking at http://www.gearthhacks.com/dlcat24/Aircraft-in-flight.htm Steve, given this, is it not possible that two photos are taken and then overlaid to give the 3D effect when one tilts the earth to a more horizontal plane? (pun unintended) This would explain the aircraft "moving on". In each of the ghosted shadows the ghostaircraft appears to beon (or slightly higher)than the clear aircraft. However, on a slower aircraft (like the helicopter, or aircraft on finals) there isn't any ghosting.This would add to the theory that the aircraft has moved on - only fast aircraft appear to beghosted. Blessings Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:23 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Weird 747 shadow Hi Andrew. I dont think so, because the 747 would have to have drifted south without any forward movement. The shadows of the surrounding structures indicate that its early morning, so in that respect the blue shadow is in the right place. What is a bit off, I would say, is that the shadow indicates that the sun is slightly south of the 747, which is impossible seeing that Johannesburg is 26 deg south and the sun never gets further south than 23.5 deg. However, if the shadow was moved due to manipulation of the satellite photographs, then it might not show where it actually was. Steve gave an excellent explanation: satellite photos are not regular photos but orthophotos, which are programmatically manipulated to make the individual satellite images fit seamlessly in one image, and perhaps some shift could have changed the color of the shadow. Steve I apologize if my paraphrasing what you said has lost the message. Who knows, but it is very interesting. Nico ---------------- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrew.bridget@telus.net Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:05 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weird 747 shadow > Look at google earth at this location: 26 02 03 S, 28 14 04 E Yes, very interesting - note that the ghosted image is above the 'clear' 747 - I wonder if it has something to do with a second photo taken immediately after the first; the 747 having moved on since the first? I'm sure there's a better explanation... God bless, ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:52 AM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Commander-List: Attending your first Fly-In? Hi All, If any Commander owner is attending their very first Fly-In, please let me know and bring along a personalised history of their Commander(s). Very Best Regards, Barry ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:33 AM PST US From: "David Owens" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weird 747 shadow Actually, when you use some of the GEO software such as Leica Suite, and Imagine, some of the features you can choose to "merge" the images seamlessly allow you to "feather" the images, which makes the image progressively trsnsparent to the extent of the image... to appear more seamless between frames, as well as auto dodging, which will change the actual gamut of each image to match more or less creating another aspect of "seamless" as the eye can see... color and density assuming the images were captured at or near the same sun angle, weather etc. As for the "ghost" shadow, I think it was feathered below the image that was overlayed after, like you guys said... BAWK! David Owens Aerial Viewpoint N14AV AC-500A-Colemill ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:08 AM PST US From: "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oil Leak Brent, The silicon, in my experience, are better than cork, however, first be sure that someone hasn't tightened the screws up so much that the valve covers are bent around the screw holes. This check can be done with a flat surface and a feeler gage. If you go to silicon, and do engine oil analysis, be sure to tell the analyzers. If you don't tell them, likely they will tell you that the engine is in trouble. Do not over tighten the screws no matter what type of gaskets you use. Moe N680RR 680F(p) -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of brent-mueller@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:21 PM Subject: Commander-List: Oil Leak -Greetings- Our valve covers leak some. what is the very best solution to oil leaking valve covers. I was told silicon ones are the ones to use, we have cork now. If cork expands with the warm oil then flattens when not run for a bit, whats th advantage over silcone? Take Care, Brent Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131505#131505 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:21 AM PST US Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oil Leak From: Bruce Campbell When I went to silicon valve covers the oil leak problem was greatly reduced on the GO435s. There were still other leaks around some of the accessories that had to be dealt with, but it was then possible to isolate them. Eventually got it down to essentially no leaks. Bruce -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of brent-mueller@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:21 PM Subject: Commander-List: Oil Leak -Greetings- Our valve covers leak some. what is the very best solution to oil leaking valve covers. I was told silicon ones are the ones to use, we have cork now. If cork expands with the warm oil then flattens when not run for a bit, whats th advantage over silcone? Take Care, Brent Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131505#131505 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:23:07 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oil Leak [bcc][faked-from] Would it hurt to apply a thin layer of grease on the cork before installation? That way the seal is not 'dry' and should prevent sweating. Or is it a no-no on aviation engines? Nico -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brock Lorber Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 5:47 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oil Leak [bcc][faked-from] The very best solution to oil leaking valve covers is not over-torquing the screws that hold them on. When the screws are over-torqued, they pucker the thin metal and ruin the seal with any gaskets. Keep the cork gaskets and get new valve covers. Torque the screws (with star washers) exactly as published in the overhaul manual (~ 20 inch pounds, barely more than snug). Brock -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of brent-mueller@comcast.net Sent: Tue 8/28/2007 9:21 PM Subject: Commander-List: Oil Leak [bcc][faked-from] -Greetings- Our valve covers leak some. what is the very best solution to oil leaking valve covers. I was told silicon ones are the ones to use, we have cork now. If cork expands with the warm oil then flattens when not run for a bit, whats th advantage over silcone? Take Care, Brent Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131505#131505 3D======================== 3D========= 3D======================== 3D========= 3D======================== 3D========= ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:09 PM PST US From: "David Owens" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oil Leak [bcc][faked-from] We use Hylomar on ours... David Owens Aerial Viewpoint N14AV AC-500A-Colemill ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:42 PM PST US From: "David Owens" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oil Leak [bcc][faked-from] go to http://www.hylomar-usa.com/ for aviation specifics... David Owens Aerial Viewpoint N14AV AC-500A-Colemill ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:20 PM PST US From: "Myron Ashley" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Attending your first Fly-In? Hello Barry, This will be my first fly-in. I am looking forward to meeting everyone. Thanks, Myron Ashley N620DR ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Collman To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:46 AM Subject: Commander-List: Attending your first Fly-In? Hi All, If any Commander owner is attending their very first Fly-In, please let me know and bring along a personalised history of their Commander(s). Very Best Regards, Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.