Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:54 AM - Re: Lean side or rich side? Was: Pressure Carburetor? (Steve @ Col-East)
2. 04:04 AM - Re: Taildraggers (Steve @ Col-East)
3. 06:08 AM - Re: Lean side or rich side? Was: Pressure Carburetor? (BobsV35B@aol.com)
4. 06:34 AM - Re: Taildraggers (BobsV35B@aol.com)
5. 06:37 AM - Re: Taildraggers (JTAddington)
6. 06:46 AM - Re: Taildraggers (BobsV35B@aol.com)
7. 07:37 AM - Re: Lean side or rich side? Was: Pressure Carburetor? (Steve at Col-East)
8. 07:53 AM - Re: Lean side or rich side? Was: Pressure Carburetor? (BobsV35B@aol.com)
9. 09:06 AM - Flap hanger corrosion (Tom Fisher)
10. 10:44 PM - GREAT SOUND (yourtcfg@aol.com)
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From: | "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2@sover.net> |
Subject: | Re: Lean side or rich side? Was: Pressure Carburetor? |
Bob,
In the past couple years we've had a number of mag failures. The last
time a coil went bad. We go through them every 500 hours or so, but
still have a problem now and again. Once I see the loss in CHT/EGT, or
feel it, I goose that side to rich so I'm not running cylinders where I
don't want them, and work the rest of the day with the split.
I don't know what other folks have found, but we've found one thing
about LOP, and that is it's very intolerant of any faults..... Ignition,
induction..... Everything needs to be in tip top shape. I think a lot of
things you might not notice otherwise when running these things on the
rich side, shows up LOP.
The six probe EGT is an amazing gizmo. I've looked over and seen a spike
in one jug and thought, now what? Cycle through the mags and find a bad
plug, and confirm it on the ground.
A cracked flange on an induction tube.... Shows up on the EGT.
A lot of this stuff you can feel, even when its really subtle, but the
EGT helps you find it.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: BobsV35B@aol.com
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Lean side or rich side? Was: Pressure
Carburetor?
Good Evening Steve,
Just out of curiosity, what was the occasion that had you operating
one engine on the lean side and the other one on the rich side!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 10/2/2007 6:03:46 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
steve2@sover.net writes:
I've found pretty quickly I've lost a mag when I feel some roughness
and all
of a sudden see a spike in EGT/CHT. Sure enough, I'll switch between
mags
and find a dead one. Interesting coming home with one engine lean,
and one
engine rich. Both have similar EGT/CHT, but one is swilling fuel,
and one
isn't........
Steve
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From: | "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2@sover.net> |
Subject: | Re: Taildraggers |
Nobody ever taught me that one...... So after you've stuck yourself to
the ground you're cross-controlling? I'm not sure I'm smart enough to do
that. Some days it's all I can do to turn the controls the right
direction.
I remember a lesson I had as a kid with Tom Murphy, one of the original
Pepsi skywriters. He was a neat old guy. We lined up on an old drive in
movie theatre screen, and did dutch rolls over and over with and without
aileron. I still remember the nose of the ratty old Cub slewing from
side to side.
Never thought about it on the ground.....
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: BobsV35B@aol.com
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Taildraggers
In a message dated 10/2/2007 9:09:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
yourtcfg@aol.com writes:
Taildragger Taildragger
Good Evening JB,
That is a very fine rendition of tailwheel checkout problems. However,
it does emphasize one of the problems that pilots are experiencing when
transitioning from tri-gear to conventional gear aircraft.
All that the author discusses is the use of rudder to keep the
airplane on the desired course.
There is not even one suggestion about the steering force that can be
used via the advantageous use of adverse yaw generated by the old
fashioned aileron which is used for roll control on most older flying
machines.
In the thirties and early forties, that was well understood and
thoroughly taught, but very few pilots other than some fortunate sea
plane pilots and a few very fortunate glider pilots are ever taught how
effective the adverse yaw can be in keeping the airplane on the straight
and narrow.
On some aircraft, specifically the Twin Beech, the use of proper
aileron is much more effective and of much greater importance than the
use of rudder. Another one of those ancient truths that have been
designed out of modern airplanes. Nothing wrong with what the designers
have done, but when we fly that ancient equipment, it behooves us to
know, understand, and use the ancient techniques!!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
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Subject: | Re: Lean side or rich side? Was: Pressure Carburetor? |
Good Morning Steve,
Your experience directly parallels mine. The modern engine monitor
consisting of all cylinder EGT and CHT indications combined with a good electronic
fuel flow is not only a great aid in diagnosing problems, but it really helps
train us in how the engine really operates!
The ignition system needs to be in excellent shape. It is not unusual to
find brand new spark plugs that fail a high power lean of peak magneto check
right out of the box. I now consider my inflight, high power, magneto check to
be much more important than the one traditionally performed before takeoff.
It is a fact that many engines which do not run well lean of peak will be
found to have small induction leaks.
With an unsupercharged engine a comparison of a careful lean check performed
at altitude and one done down low will generally find that leak.
Do you use a lean spread check such as the one recommended by the GAMI folks?
While I have been running on the lean side and working to balance my fuel
nozzles and/or intake systems for well over fifty years, I had never thought of
doing their lean check procedure before I bought my GAMI balanced fuel
nozzles. That knowledge alone was well worth the purchase price.
I still feel very comfortable struggling along without a good engine
monitor, but it is one of the first places that I would spend my money if I bought
a
'new to me' airplane. It is a lot more than just a nice toy.
The saving of fuel via more precise control is nice, but much more important
is the ability to catch minor engine problems easily and to be able to pin
point the location of those impending difficulties.
Having said all that, this is why I asked the question:
Did you consider running your engine on the lean side after that one magneto
failed? All that running on one mag does is retard the point of peak
combustion pressure. Kinda like retarding the spark just a bit. Shouldn't be any
problem at all.
If you wanted to pick the power back up a bit, rechecking the peak on the
one magneto and going on from there to your normal lean operating point should
work just fine.
Any thoughts?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 10/3/2007 5:55:06 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
steve2@sover.net writes:
I don't know what other folks have found, but we've found one thing about
LOP, and that is it's very intolerant of any faults..... Ignition,
induction..... Everything needs to be in tip top shape. I think a lot of things
you might
not notice otherwise when running these things on the rich side, shows up
LOP.
The six probe EGT is an amazing gizmo. I've looked over and seen a spike in
one jug and thought, now what? Cycle through the mags and find a bad plug,
and confirm it on the ground.
A cracked flange on an induction tube.... Shows up on the EGT.
A lot of this stuff you can feel, even when its really subtle, but the EGT
helps you find it.
Steve
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Taildraggers |
Good Morning Once Again Steve,
I do not recommend doing it as a quick correction, but setting the controls
in that manner as a conscious effort well in advance of the need.
Most pilots are taught to use aileron into the wind for crosswind takeoff
and landings. It is generally taught that doing so will keep the wing down. No
doubt that is one effect, but the much more important result is that the
adverse yaw being generated by that action is a primary aid to directional
control. Consequently, most pilots do exactly what I suggest in a strong crosswind.
However, when the wind is on the nose, turning the wheel in the opposite
direction to correct for a swerve is not a natural move.
It does need to be trained for and practiced to be effective.
Where the problem usually occurs in the Twin Beech is just at that time that
the tail is being raised during the takeoff. The combination of
engine/propellor torque and the gyroscopic precession of the propellors uses up
all the
right rudder that is available and the pilot may try to steer the airplane
back to the right just like he/she would his/her car.
The control wheel is turned to the right.
That provokes the adverse yaw which turns the airplane to the left and the
airplane runs off the left side of the runway.
The longer one flys without considering the effect of adverse yaw, the
tougher it is to learn to use it properly.
Add in a bit of experience with an airplane that uses spoilers for roll
control and things can really get dicey!
Modern airplanes don't have the problem, but for those of us who enjoy the
older machines, it is a point that should at least be recognized. If nothing
else, I tell folks to avoid any extra aileron input if they are not absolutely
positive which way it should be turned!
The plus side is that even a modern airplane that uses aileron for roll
control will benefit from the use of adverse yaw while on the ground. If you are
flying one that uses spoiler for roll control, it is not only no good at all,
it is detrimental!
So much for standardization!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 10/3/2007 6:05:15 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
steve2@sover.net writes:
Nobody ever taught me that one...... So after you've stuck yourself to the
ground you're cross-controlling? I'm not sure I'm smart enough to do that.
Some days it's all I can do to turn the controls the right direction.
I remember a lesson I had as a kid with Tom Murphy, one of the original
Pepsi skywriters. He was a neat old guy. We lined up on an old drive in movie
theatre screen, and did dutch rolls over and over with and without aileron. I
still remember the nose of the ratty old Cub slewing from side to side.
Never thought about it on the ground.....
Steve
Message 5
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I for got you are on a real airplane the B-747.
Jim
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bow
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 11:27 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Taildraggers
No they are in the middle.
bb
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James T.
Addington
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 12:17 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Taildraggers
BB, is that one of those airplanes with a training wheel in the back? HeHeHe
Jim
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bow
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 11:08 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Taildraggers
That's great!
I have taken my "sleek and clean" quintacycle (5 legs) out and burned up
399,200 lbs. (59,582 gallons) of kerosene this week. And I have used "a
little of rudder, not too much" and been successful. It's time to go home
before it's "my own tail" going by.
bb
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:06 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Taildraggers
Thought you guys could appreciate this since many of you learned to fly in a
taildragger. Enjoy!
Taildragger Taildragger
Taildragger, I hate your guts,
I have the license, ratings and such.
But to make you go straight is driving me nuts.
With hours of teaching and the controls in my clutch.
It takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
You see, I learned to fly in a trycycle gear
with one up front and two in the rear.
She was sleek and clean and easy to steer
But this miserasble thing with tires and struts
Takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
It demands your attention on the take-off roll
or it heads towards Jone's as you pour on the coal.
Gotta hang loose, don't over control.
This wicked little plane is just too much.
With a lot of zigzagging and words obscene
I think I've mastered this slippery machine
It's not that bad if you have the touch
Just a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
I relax for a second and from the corner of my eye,
I suddenly realize with a gasp and a cry
That's my own tail that's going by.
You grounding looping wreck; I hate your guts,
Give a little rudder, Great Scott, THAT'S TOO MUCH.
Author Unknown
_____
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Subject: | Re: Taildraggers |
In a message dated 10/3/2007 8:39:19 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
jtaddington@verizon.net writes:
I for got you are on a real airplane the B-747.
Jim
There is nothing else that quite compares with driving an eighteen wheeler!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Lean side or rich side? Was: Pressure Carburetor? |
Old Bob,
Affirmative on the GAMI test.
We're pretty close to perfect on fuel injection balance, but not quite
there. We've got the smallest injectors GAMI will give us on number 1,
and the largest on 5 and 6. But pulling the mixture back has the fire
going out in number 5 first, on both engines.
We've speculated that there is something about this engine installation
on the Commander that is harder to balance. The spider is all the way
forward, and number 5 has the longest and kinkiest run of the fuel
injection line.
We did the test with having each of the injectors piddle into a Coke
bottle. 5 lags just a little behind the others. (As an aside, a couple
years ago that's how we found the rebuilt engine's fuel pump had had a
chunk of thread come off and run through the pump, distributing chunks
into the spider.) We even found the fuel injection line had nipple ends
with different internal diameters, and changed the long number 5 and 6
lines to match the new style. It helped, but didn't totally cure it.
Pulling the mixture, way way back, or losing a mag, has the engine
(especially our left engine) run with a little bit of vibes. I've got
sitting on my desk a left side intake gasket that obviously wasn't
making the same good contact all the way around. We just last week
replaced the last of the old chintzy intake tubes, with newer heavier
gauge ones. I'm eager to get in the air to see if we've had an
undiagnosed small intake leak.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: BobsV35B@aol.com
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Lean side or rich side? Was: Pressure
Carburetor?
Good Morning Steve,
Your experience directly parallels mine. The modern engine monitor
consisting of all cylinder EGT and CHT indications combined with a good
electronic fuel flow is not only a great aid in diagnosing problems, but
it really helps train us in how the engine really operates!
The ignition system needs to be in excellent shape. It is not unusual
to find brand new spark plugs that fail a high power lean of peak
magneto check right out of the box. I now consider my inflight, high
power, magneto check to be much more important than the one
traditionally performed before takeoff.
It is a fact that many engines which do not run well lean of peak will
be found to have small induction leaks.
With an unsupercharged engine a comparison of a careful lean check
performed at altitude and one done down low will generally find that
leak.
Do you use a lean spread check such as the one recommended by the GAMI
folks?
While I have been running on the lean side and working to balance my
fuel nozzles and/or intake systems for well over fifty years, I had
never thought of doing their lean check procedure before I bought my
GAMI balanced fuel nozzles. That knowledge alone was well worth the
purchase price.
I still feel very comfortable struggling along without a good engine
monitor, but it is one of the first places that I would spend my money
if I bought a 'new to me' airplane. It is a lot more than just a nice
toy.
The saving of fuel via more precise control is nice, but much more
important is the ability to catch minor engine problems easily and to be
able to pin point the location of those impending difficulties.
Having said all that, this is why I asked the question:
Did you consider running your engine on the lean side after that one
magneto failed? All that running on one mag does is retard the point of
peak combustion pressure. Kinda like retarding the spark just a bit.
Shouldn't be any problem at all.
If you wanted to pick the power back up a bit, rechecking the peak on
the one magneto and going on from there to your normal lean operating
point should work just fine.
Any thoughts?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 10/3/2007 5:55:06 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
steve2@sover.net writes:
I don't know what other folks have found, but we've found one thing
about LOP, and that is it's very intolerant of any faults..... Ignition,
induction..... Everything needs to be in tip top shape. I think a lot of
things you might not notice otherwise when running these things on the
rich side, shows up LOP.
The six probe EGT is an amazing gizmo. I've looked over and seen a
spike in one jug and thought, now what? Cycle through the mags and find
a bad plug, and confirm it on the ground.
A cracked flange on an induction tube.... Shows up on the EGT.
A lot of this stuff you can feel, even when its really subtle, but
the EGT helps you find it.
Steve
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
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Subject: | Re: Lean side or rich side? Was: Pressure Carburetor? |
Good Morning Steve
It is an interesting new world when we get good instrumentation, isn't it?
I am not at all familiar with the intake tubes on the 540. Is there any
possibility of an "Occult" (as George calls it) fuel transfer with your intake
pipes?
Always something new to be learned.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 10/3/2007 9:39:05 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
steve2@sover.net writes:
We did the test with having each of the injectors piddle into a Coke bottle.
5 lags just a little behind the others. (As an aside, a couple years ago
that's how we found the rebuilt engine's fuel pump had had a chunk of thread
come off and run through the pump, distributing chunks into the spider.) We even
found the fuel injection line had nipple ends with different internal
diameters, and changed the long number 5 and 6 lines to match the new style.
It
helped, but didn't totally cure it.
Message 9
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Subject: | Flap hanger corrosion |
Gentlemen,
I am going through an annual, (again), and am badly in need of a Flap
hanger due to corrosion.
The part number is; 5240001-515,
the location is (good luck); Left wing, Inboard flap, Outboard hanger,
Outboard side.
If anyone can get me one of those (in very good condition) this week
please call me as soon as able, cell; 604-649-9320 (Vancouver, Canada).
Thanks all,
Tom Fisher
C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM)
Message 10
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I was just watching TV and saw an old Twilight Zone episode called "The arri
val" about a DC-3 that arrived with no one aboard.=C2- In one of the early
scenes, you can clearly hear the sound of a pair of geared Lycs taking off,
COOL!!=C2- jb
-----Original Message-----
From: James T. Addington <jtaddington@verizon.net>
Sent: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 9:17 pm
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Taildraggers
BB, is that one of those airplanes with a training wheel in the back? HeHeHe
Jim
=C2-
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list
-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bow
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 11:08 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Taildraggers
=C2-
That=99s great!=C2-
I have taken my =9Csleek and clean=9D quintacycle (5 legs) out a
nd burned up 399,200 lbs. (59,582 gallons) of kerosene this week. And I have
used =9Ca little of rudder, not too much=9D and been successful
.=C2- It=99s time to go home before it=99s =9Cmy own tai
l=9D going by.
bb
=C2-
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list
-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:06 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Taildraggers
=C2-
Thought you guys could appreciate this since many of you learned to fly in a
taildragger.=C2- Enjoy!
Taildragger Taildragger
=C2-
Taildragger, I hate your guts,
I have the license, ratings and such.
But to make you go straight is driving me nuts.
With hours of teaching and the controls in my clutch.
It takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
You see, I learned to fly in a trycycle gear
with one up front and two in the rear.
She was sleek and clean and easy to steer
But this miserasble thing with tires and struts
Takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
It demands your attention on the take-off roll
or it heads towards Jone's as you pour on the coal.
Gotta hang loose, don't over control.
This wicked little plane is just too much.
With a lot of zigzagging and words obscene
I think I've mastered this slippery machine
It's not that bad if you have the touch
Just a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
I relax for a second and from the corner of my eye,
I suddenly realize with a gasp and a cry
That's my own tail that's going by.
You grounding looping wreck; I hate your guts,
Give a little rudder, Great Scott, THAT'S TOO MUCH.
Author Unknown
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
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