---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/20/07: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:02 PM - Engine Failures Update (Randy Dettmer, AIA) 2. 03:55 PM - Re: Engine Failures Update (Bill Bow) 3. 09:35 PM - Re: Pilot Door. (W J R HAMILTON) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:54 PM PST US From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" Subject: Commander-List: Engine Failures Update Back in February, I reported to the group my experience in losing the left engine in my 680F while experiencing trouble with the right engine - at the same time. Heres an update. After losing oil through the breather, with serious loss of oil pressure, the left engine threw a rod (the rod separated at the crank). The right engine lost 2-3 gallons through the breather during the previous one hour leg, and made so much metal it must be re-built. Heres the scenario - both engines lost a huge amount of oil through the breathers (the crank cases became pressurized), both incidents occurred at the same time, at 5.5. hrs after the annual inspection. Both engines had cylinders replaced during the annual inspection (2 on the right, 1 on the left). I cannot believe that these episodes are a coincidence. My mechanic (ex-mechanic now), Morris Kernick (who has maintained the airplane for the past 7 years) did not put the required break-in oil in the engines after cylinder replacement (as specifically recommended by Lycoming). He says that it is not necessary. Several engine experts who have examined the rings in the replaced cylinders indicate that they look too used to be 5.5. hours old. Morris and the cylinder shop deny that they are used. Central Cylinder in Omaha, NE is currently re-building the engines (at $50K each). They indicate that the cylinder walls are glazed, which is caused by over heating, and can be a cause of excessive blow-by and crankcase pressurization. I have always been very careful about temps, so the only time the engines could be overheated is during a ground test run. Morris Kernick has not taken any responsibility for the situation. I have been very disappointed in his lack of support and accountability. He has been virtually silent since the incident. I have had to call him each time to discuss the situation. He has not called me once. He says that nothing he did caused the failures. Whether or not Morris caused the problems, I would have expected him to stand behind his work and to at least do his best to trouble shoot the problems and help me with a solution. We still do not know definitely what caused the failures. Morris did give me an engine core, which I would value at around $15-20K. I believe that he is hoping that the engine core will be a cheap way out of being accountable for the work leaving his shop. At this time, I am still analyzing options to recover some of the significant expenses incurred because of this incident. In any case, I wanted to share my story. I have always liked Morris, and have appreciated his vast knowledge about Commanders. Morris does not have an A&P license, and relies on his employee to sign off all work done in his shop. I believe this situation may be a result of his conviction for falsifying maintenance records. Because of these factors, and my recent experience, I cannot trust him to provide me with competent service service that is so important to the safety and lives of the people that I carry in my airplane. I feel obligated to share these details with my fellow Commander owners, so that you can make your own conclusions. The engines should be completed in several more weeks, and will be shipped to SNS and installed on the airplane by Dave Teeters at Airmotive Specialties. I am looking forward to getting N6253X back in the air. Its been a long 7 months. Randy Dettmer, AIA 680F/N6253X 663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865 http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:41 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Failures Update Sorry to hear the results but I'm not surprised. bilbo _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Dettmer, AIA Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 5:03 PM Subject: Commander-List: Engine Failures Update Back in February, I reported to the group my experience in losing the left engine in my 680F while experiencing trouble with the right engine - at the same time. Here's an update. After losing oil through the breather, with serious loss of oil pressure, the left engine threw a rod (the rod separated at the crank). The right engine lost 2-3 gallons through the breather during the previous one hour leg, and made so much metal it must be re-built. Here's the scenario - both engines lost a huge amount of oil through the breathers (the crank cases became pressurized), both incidents occurred at the same time, at 5.5. hrs after the annual inspection. Both engines had cylinders replaced during the annual inspection (2 on the right, 1 on the left). I cannot believe that these episodes are a coincidence. My mechanic (ex-mechanic now), Morris Kernick (who has maintained the airplane for the past 7 years) did not put the required break-in oil in the engines after cylinder replacement (as specifically recommended by Lycoming). He says that it is not necessary. Several engine experts who have examined the rings in the replaced cylinders indicate that they look too "used" to be 5.5. hours old. Morris and the cylinder shop deny that they are used. Central Cylinder in Omaha, NE is currently re-building the engines (at $50K each). They indicate that the cylinder walls are glazed, which is caused by over heating, and can be a cause of excessive "blow-by" and crankcase pressurization. I have always been very careful about temps, so the only time the engines could be overheated is during a ground test run. Morris Kernick has not taken any responsibility for the situation. I have been very disappointed in his lack of support and accountability. He has been virtually silent since the incident. I have had to call him each time to discuss the situation. He has not called me once. He says that nothing he did caused the failures. Whether or not Morris caused the problems, I would have expected him to stand behind his work and to at least do his best to trouble shoot the problems and help me with a solution. We still do not know definitely what caused the failures. Morris did give me an engine core, which I would value at around $15-20K. I believe that he is hoping that the engine core will be a cheap way out of being accountable for the work leaving his shop. At this time, I am still analyzing options to recover some of the significant expenses incurred because of this incident. In any case, I wanted to share my story. I have always liked Morris, and have appreciated his vast knowledge about Commanders. Morris does not have an A&P license, and relies on his employee to sign off all work done in his shop. I believe this situation may be a result of his conviction for falsifying maintenance records. Because of these factors, and my recent experience, I cannot trust him to provide me with competent service - service that is so important to the safety and lives of the people that I carry in my airplane. I feel obligated to share these details with my fellow Commander owners, so that you can make your own conclusions. The engines should be completed in several more weeks, and will be shipped to SNS and installed on the airplane by Dave Teeters at Airmotive Specialties. I am looking forward to getting N6253X back in the air. It's been a long 7 months. Randy Dettmer, AIA 680F/N6253X 663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865 http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:02 PM PST US From: W J R HAMILTON Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Door. Bill, Very interesting historic note, thanks for that. Cheers, Bill Hamilton At 14:58 20/10/2007, you wrote: >No Problem, the structure is the same. I put a front door in my >560F. Lot of work but well worth it. FYI the front door was >originally developed for the military. The Aero Commander was the >first aircraft used to develop Side Looking Radar for the Army. It >blocked the cabin door so they need the front door to get in the aircraft. > >Bill Leff > > >---------- >See what's ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.