---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 10/25/07: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:25 AM - AC 500S (W J R HAMILTON) 2. 05:53 AM - Commander Lost (Steve at Col-East) 3. 09:31 AM - N6370U crash (nico css) 4. 10:51 AM - Re: N6370U crash (John Vormbaum) 5. 10:53 AM - Re: N6370U crash (John Vormbaum) 6. 11:21 AM - Re: N6370U crash (Moe - Ross Racing Pistons) 7. 11:21 AM - Re: N6370U crash (CloudCraft@aol.com) 8. 11:54 AM - Re: N6370U crash (John Vormbaum) 9. 12:03 PM - Re: N6370U crash (Bill Bow) 10. 12:09 PM - Re: N6370U crash (CloudCraft@aol.com) 11. 12:22 PM - Re: N6370U crash [bcc][faked-from][html-rem] (Brock Lorber) 12. 01:01 PM - Re: N6370U crash (nico css) 13. 01:02 PM - Re: N6370U crash (Don) 14. 01:06 PM - Re: N6370U crash (Tylor Hall) 15. 01:22 PM - Re: N6370U crash (Bill Bow) 16. 01:22 PM - Re: N6370U crash [bcc][faked-from][html-rem] (Bill Bow) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:08 AM PST US From: W J R HAMILTON Subject: Commander-List: AC 500S Folks, I am looking for a door handle and lock parts for a 500S door. There will probably be other bits and pieces, I won't really know until I pick up the door and a large chunk of surrounding fuselage. This is the door I am going to graft into the 500A. Cheers, Bill Hamilton ZK-DCF ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:29 AM PST US From: "Steve at Col-East" Subject: Commander-List: Commander Lost Uh-oh. Just spotted this. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 071023X01633&key=1 Steve ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:39 AM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: Commander-List: N6370U crash Picutre of the wreck. and some journalistic drivel http://discussions.flightaware.com/viewtopic.php?p=36199 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:51 AM PST US From: John Vormbaum Subject: Re: Commander-List: N6370U crash I remember reading about this when it happened. When I armchair-quarterbacked it the first time, I guessed CFIT. Now it looks like it may have swallowed a valve on the right engine. With 20,750 hours of experience, it's a tragedy that he couldn't manage the single engine condition. The original article listed the airplane as a 560, but the manufacture date as 1964.....which would make it a 560F, and there aren't too many of those around. nico css wrote: > > Picutre of the wreck and some journalistic drivel > > http://discussions.flightaware.com/viewtopic.php?p=36199 > > * > > > * > > > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________ > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:53:06 AM PST US From: John Vormbaum Subject: Re: Commander-List: N6370U crash Duh, just noticed in the NTSB report that it was a 560F. nico css wrote: > > Picutre of the wreck and some journalistic drivel > > http://discussions.flightaware.com/viewtopic.php?p=36199 > > * > > > * > > > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________ > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:21:12 AM PST US From: "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" Subject: RE: Commander-List: N6370U crash Why would one shut down an engine because it gobbled one exhaust valve? Evan with two exhaust valves broken there will be some power available. Moe N680RR 680F(p) -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:51 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: N6370U crash I remember reading about this when it happened. When I armchair-quarterbacked it the first time, I guessed CFIT. Now it looks like it may have swallowed a valve on the right engine. With 20,750 hours of experience, it's a tragedy that he couldn't manage the single engine condition. The original article listed the airplane as a 560, but the manufacture date as 1964.....which would make it a 560F, and there aren't too many of those around. nico css wrote: > > Picutre of the wreck. and some journalistic drivel > > http://discussions.flightaware.com/viewtopic.php?p=36199 > > * > > > * > > > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________ > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:21:20 AM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: N6370U crash In a message dated 25-Oct-07 10:52:43 Pacific Daylight Time, john@vormbaum.com writes: I remember reading about this when it happened. When I armchair-quarterbacked it the first time, I guessed CFIT. Now it looks like it may have swallowed a valve on the right engine. With 20,750 hours of experience, it's a tragedy that he couldn't manage the single engine condition. As long as we're armchair-quarterbacking, I can't help but wonder if there was fuel contamination (Jet-A?). Seems unlikely that the loss of power on one engine, subsequently feathered, would not allow continued flight, unless the second engine was on its way out. Not much fuel remaining in the wreckage, was there? We also have to allow for incapacitation of the pilot. Wing Commander Gordon ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:54:47 AM PST US From: John Vormbaum Subject: Re: Commander-List: N6370U crash I immediately thought of misfueling. I still fear that and am always present when my airplane is fueled.... CloudCraft@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 25-Oct-07 10:52:43 Pacific Daylight Time, > john@vormbaum.com writes: > > I remember reading about this when it happened. When I > armchair-quarterbacked it the first time, I guessed CFIT. Now it > looks > like it may have swallowed a valve on the right engine. With 20,750 > hours of experience, it's a tragedy that he couldn't manage the > single > engine condition. > > *As long as we're armchair-quarterbacking, I can't help but wonder if > there was fuel contamination (Jet-A?). Seems unlikely that the loss > of power on one engine, subsequently feathered, would not allow > continued flight, unless the second engine was on its way out. * > ** > *Not much fuel remaining in the wreckage, was there?* > ** > *We also have to allow for incapacitation of the pilot.* > ** > *Wing Commander Gordon* > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________ > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:52 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: RE: Commander-List: N6370U crash I was so untrusting that I always put the fuel in. Maybe that's neurotic. bb -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:54 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: N6370U crash I immediately thought of misfueling. I still fear that and am always present when my airplane is fueled.... CloudCraft@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 25-Oct-07 10:52:43 Pacific Daylight Time, > john@vormbaum.com writes: > > I remember reading about this when it happened. When I > armchair-quarterbacked it the first time, I guessed CFIT. Now it > looks > like it may have swallowed a valve on the right engine. With 20,750 > hours of experience, it's a tragedy that he couldn't manage the > single > engine condition. > > *As long as we're armchair-quarterbacking, I can't help but wonder if > there was fuel contamination (Jet-A?). Seems unlikely that the loss > of power on one engine, subsequently feathered, would not allow > continued flight, unless the second engine was on its way out. * > ** > *Not much fuel remaining in the wreckage, was there?* > ** > *We also have to allow for incapacitation of the pilot.* > ** > *Wing Commander Gordon* > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________ > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:11 PM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: N6370U crash In a message dated 25-Oct-07 12:04:55 Pacific Daylight Time, bowing74@earthlink.net writes: I was so untrusting that I always put the fuel in. Maybe that's neurotic. You are in desperate need of psychiatric help. But then, you are not in need of a mortician, are you? Wing Commander Gordon ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:00 PM PST US Subject: RE: Commander-List: N6370U crash [bcc][faked-from][html-rem] From: "Brock Lorber" Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean somebody's not out to get you. -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of CloudCraft@aol.com Sent: Thu 10/25/2007 12:08 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: N6370U crash [bcc][faked-from][html-rem] In a message dated 25-Oct-07 12:04:55 Pacific Daylight Time, bowing74@earthlink.net writes: I was so untrusting that I always put the fuel in. Maybe that's neurotic. You are in desperate need of psychiatric help. But then, you are not in need of a mortician, are you? Wing Commander Gordon ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:01 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Commander-List: N6370U crash Mostly, I am concerned that I am out to get myself. A couple of years ago an FBO fueller put jet fuel in my 500, thinking that it's a turbine, since the mail carriers flew turbine A/C's at night. If it hadn't been that I was not greedy and saw that the fuel bill was much less for the amount of fuel they put on board (jet fuel was cheaper than avgas back then), I could have lost all power probably just after take-off and ended up in the local neighborhood. So, I am totally paranoid about putting fuel in myself. That this Commander swallowed a valve is very unfortunate - but should have been a preventable accident based purely on what is known now. -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brock Lorber Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:21 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: N6370U crash [bcc][faked-from][html-rem] Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean somebody's not out to get you. -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of CloudCraft@aol.com Sent: Thu 10/25/2007 12:08 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: N6370U crash [bcc][faked-from][html-rem] In a message dated 25-Oct-07 12:04:55 Pacific Daylight Time, bowing74@earthlink.net writes: I was so untrusting that I always put the fuel in. Maybe that's neurotic. You are in desperate need of psychiatric help. But then, you are not in need of a mortician, are you? Wing Commander Gordon ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:48 PM PST US From: "Don" Subject: Re: Commander-List: N6370U crash The way it burned, reminded me of possibly Jet A. Just nothing left when that stuff ignites. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Vormbaum" Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:53 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: N6370U crash > > I immediately thought of misfueling. I still fear that and am always > present when my airplane is fueled.... > > CloudCraft@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 25-Oct-07 10:52:43 Pacific Daylight Time, > > john@vormbaum.com writes: > > > > I remember reading about this when it happened. When I > > armchair-quarterbacked it the first time, I guessed CFIT. Now it > > looks > > like it may have swallowed a valve on the right engine. With 20,750 > > hours of experience, it's a tragedy that he couldn't manage the > > single > > engine condition. > > > > *As long as we're armchair-quarterbacking, I can't help but wonder if > > there was fuel contamination (Jet-A?). Seems unlikely that the loss > > of power on one engine, subsequently feathered, would not allow > > continued flight, unless the second engine was on its way out. * > > ** > > *Not much fuel remaining in the wreckage, was there?* > > ** > > *We also have to allow for incapacitation of the pilot.* > > ** > > *Wing Commander Gordon* > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > > > > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________ > > > > > -- 10/25/2007 1:14 PM > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:04 PM PST US From: Tylor Hall Subject: Re: Commander-List: N6370U crash The first thing I thought about when I saw this, was this a miss fueling accident? They must have a record of this aircraft taking on fuel when, by whom and how much, and what kind of fuel? I see nothing other than it was "topped off". Bob Hoover had it happen to him. I witnessed it almost happen and stopped the fuel truck driver before they started fueling. Tylor Hall On Oct 25, 2007, at 1:20 PM, Brock Lorber wrote: > > Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean somebody's not out to > get you. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of > CloudCraft@aol.com > Sent: Thu 10/25/2007 12:08 PM > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: N6370U crash [bcc][faked-from][html-rem] > > > In a message dated 25-Oct-07 12:04:55 Pacific Daylight Time, > bowing74@earthlink.net writes: > > > I was so untrusting that I always put the fuel in. > Maybe that's neurotic. > > > You are in desperate need of psychiatric help. But then, you are > not in > need of a mortician, are you? > > Wing Commander Gordon > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:15 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: RE: Commander-List: N6370U crash I like your logic and your point. Thanks bilbo _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CloudCraft@aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:09 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: N6370U crash In a message dated 25-Oct-07 12:04:55 Pacific Daylight Time, bowing74@earthlink.net writes: I was so untrusting that I always put the fuel in. Maybe that's neurotic. You are in desperate need of psychiatric help. But then, you are not in need of a mortician, are you? Wing Commander Gordon _____ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:16 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: RE: Commander-List: N6370U crash [bcc][faked-from][html-rem] I like that point , too. bilbo -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brock Lorber Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:21 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: N6370U crash [bcc][faked-from][html-rem] Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean somebody's not out to get you. -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of CloudCraft@aol.com Sent: Thu 10/25/2007 12:08 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: N6370U crash [bcc][faked-from][html-rem] In a message dated 25-Oct-07 12:04:55 Pacific Daylight Time, bowing74@earthlink.net writes: I was so untrusting that I always put the fuel in. Maybe that's neurotic. You are in desperate need of psychiatric help. But then, you are not in need of a mortician, are you? Wing Commander Gordon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.