Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:27 AM - Re: Seriously searching for 500 (Robert Feldtman)
2. 06:56 AM - Re: Engine Analyzer (nico css)
3. 07:06 AM - Re: Engine Analyzer (Randy Dettmer, AIA)
4. 08:00 AM - Re: Engine Analyzer (nico css)
5. 08:03 AM - Re: Engine Analyzer (MASON CHEVAILLIER)
6. 08:07 AM - Re: Engine Analyzer (John Vormbaum)
7. 10:34 PM - Re: Commander 685... great aircraft or great challenge? (BillLeff1@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Seriously searching for 500 |
Hard to find a 500B with that few hours - we have one with almost 10,000 TT,
but in fantastic shape, two solid IO540s - that we'd let go for 200K. STEC
autopilot, 430WAAS GPS, JPI engine analyzers.... I can send you pictures if
you'd like as well as full statistics. I've owned it since 1985. Hangared in
Texas her whole life. Just got her back from an IRAN rt engine.
bobf
On 11/4/07, BradG27Z <BradG27Z@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi folks, I have been searching high and low for a year and a half for the
> right 500B or 500S. I am looking for a solid airframe, less than 5,000 TT,
> NDH, no corrosion or undocumented repairs. Prefer an A/C that has stayed in
> the US and well cared for. Time on engines and props not important. Avionics
> not important. Paint and interior not important. All logs and hopefully
> hangared. I am a very motivated buyer. Any ideas? Anybody have any leads? I
> have already looked at three A/C that have been big disappointments. Please
> help a hungry Commander buyer (I am a private individual). Thanks,
> Brad
> 360-658-9700
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143916#143916
>
>
Message 2
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Randy,
Just as a matter of (academic, I suppose) interest, did you consider
replacing the engines with the Mr. RPM 800HP conversion?
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Randy,
I still feel strongly that the JPI is the one to get for these reasons:
1) It's a TWIN model, you only need to occupy one hole in your panel
2) The built-in fuel totalizer is great
3) The data logging & retrieval functions work perfectly (I love that
feature) via RS-232 to Serial cable.
I just bring my laptop in the airplane every now & then and download all
the data. The software provided by JPI is great, I can graph CHT, EGT,
Fuel flow, and break them down any way I want. Makes a bad plug, failing
valve etc. very easy to detect....before it fails.
Here are a couple of articles on engine management where the JPI plays a
big part. I like John Deakin's work and tend to agree with him,
especially vs. the Old Wives' Tales that Lycoming and Continental
occasionally still spew:
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182176-1.html (Good graphics of the
JPI software graphs)
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182084-1.html (Love this one, it's the
LOP vs. ROP argument)
Here's a link to all Deakin's articles. The JPI appears in many:
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182544-1.html
Incidentally, I got quite a break on the price. I have been told that a
JPI install is roughly 40 hrs. At today's shop rates, your $8k estimate
is about right.
Cheers,
/John
Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
>
> Thanks Andrew for the response. I am leaning towards a JPI unit at
> this time. So far I have heard many positive things about JPI. Still
> doing research.
>
>
>
> Randy
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dettmer Architecture*
>
> *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*
>
> *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*
>
> *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of
> *andrew.bridget@telus.net
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 03, 2007 11:02 AM
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
>
>
> Randy, my brother was looking at an AuRacle engine analyser for his
> Twin Comanche; didn't end up buying one in the end - they were all too
> expensive in South Africa. He said that, given the resources, the
> AuRacle would likely be his choice. It has USB transfer and apparently
> is (software) upgradeable via USB too. Don't know anything else about it.
>
>
>
> God bless,
>
> Andrew
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> * -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --*
> * (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)*
> **
> * November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on*
> * the Contribution link below to find out more about*
> * this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!*
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>
Message 3
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Hi Nico,
No, I didn't. Interesting idea, though. How many hundreds of thousands of
dollars would the Mr. RPM's cost..?? I have heard them mentioned many times
on this list, and assume that the performance upgrade is significant.
RD
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:56 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Randy,
Just as a matter of (academic, I suppose) interest, did you consider
replacing the engines with the Mr. RPM 800HP conversion?
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Randy,
I still feel strongly that the JPI is the one to get for these reasons:
1) It's a TWIN model, you only need to occupy one hole in your panel
2) The built-in fuel totalizer is great
3) The data logging & retrieval functions work perfectly (I love that
feature) via RS-232 to Serial cable.
I just bring my laptop in the airplane every now & then and download all
the data. The software provided by JPI is great, I can graph CHT, EGT,
Fuel flow, and break them down any way I want. Makes a bad plug, failing
valve etc. very easy to detect....before it fails.
Here are a couple of articles on engine management where the JPI plays a
big part. I like John Deakin's work and tend to agree with him,
especially vs. the Old Wives' Tales that Lycoming and Continental
occasionally still spew:
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182176-1.html (Good graphics of the
JPI software graphs)
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182084-1.html (Love this one, it's the
LOP vs. ROP argument)
Here's a link to all Deakin's articles. The JPI appears in many:
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182544-1.html
Incidentally, I got quite a break on the price. I have been told that a
JPI install is roughly 40 hrs. At today's shop rates, your $8k estimate
is about right.
Cheers,
/John
Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
>
> Thanks Andrew for the response. I am leaning towards a JPI unit at
> this time. So far I have heard many positive things about JPI. Still
> doing research.
>
>
> Randy
>
>
> *Dettmer Architecture*
>
> *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*
>
> *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*
>
> *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of
> *andrew.bridget@telus.net
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 03, 2007 11:02 AM
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
>
> Randy, my brother was looking at an AuRacle engine analyser for his
> Twin Comanche; didn't end up buying one in the end - they were all too
> expensive in South Africa. He said that, given the resources, the
> AuRacle would likely be his choice. It has USB transfer and apparently
> is (software) upgradeable via USB too. Don't know anything else about it.
>
>
> God bless,
>
> Andrew
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> * -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --*
> * (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)*
> **
> * November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on*
> * the Contribution link below to find out more about*
> * this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!*
> **
> * List Contribution Web Site:*
> **
> * --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> **
> * Thank you for your generous support!*
> **
> * -Matt Dralle, List Admin.*
> **
> **
> * - The Commander-List Email Forum -*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> * --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
> **
> * - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -*
> **
> * --> http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> * *
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
Message 4
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Hi Randy,
You can visit the commander website (www.aerocommander.com) and follow the
link STC Holders, which will lead you to Dick MacCoon's website with his
Commander STC's.
I am sure he will be able to provide you with more knowledgeable information
than I can. It might be worth a visit.
There is a video of the Orenda-engined Commander flying, too. Last time I
checked, it was for sale.
It would be interesting to hear your perceptions on the 800hp conversion.
Thanks
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Dettmer, AIA
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 7:06 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
<rcdettmer@charter.net>
Hi Nico,
No, I didn't. Interesting idea, though. How many hundreds of thousands of
dollars would the Mr. RPM's cost..?? I have heard them mentioned many times
on this list, and assume that the performance upgrade is significant.
RD
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:56 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Randy,
Just as a matter of (academic, I suppose) interest, did you consider
replacing the engines with the Mr. RPM 800HP conversion?
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
Randy,
I still feel strongly that the JPI is the one to get for these reasons:
1) It's a TWIN model, you only need to occupy one hole in your panel
2) The built-in fuel totalizer is great
3) The data logging & retrieval functions work perfectly (I love that
feature) via RS-232 to Serial cable.
I just bring my laptop in the airplane every now & then and download all
the data. The software provided by JPI is great, I can graph CHT, EGT,
Fuel flow, and break them down any way I want. Makes a bad plug, failing
valve etc. very easy to detect....before it fails.
Here are a couple of articles on engine management where the JPI plays a
big part. I like John Deakin's work and tend to agree with him,
especially vs. the Old Wives' Tales that Lycoming and Continental
occasionally still spew:
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182176-1.html (Good graphics of the
JPI software graphs)
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182084-1.html (Love this one, it's the
LOP vs. ROP argument)
Here's a link to all Deakin's articles. The JPI appears in many:
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182544-1.html
Incidentally, I got quite a break on the price. I have been told that a
JPI install is roughly 40 hrs. At today's shop rates, your $8k estimate
is about right.
Cheers,
/John
Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
>
> Thanks Andrew for the response. I am leaning towards a JPI unit at
> this time. So far I have heard many positive things about JPI. Still
> doing research.
>
>
> Randy
>
>
> *Dettmer Architecture*
>
> *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*
>
> *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*
>
> *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of
> *andrew.bridget@telus.net
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 03, 2007 11:02 AM
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
>
> Randy, my brother was looking at an AuRacle engine analyser for his
> Twin Comanche; didn't end up buying one in the end - they were all too
> expensive in South Africa. He said that, given the resources, the
> AuRacle would likely be his choice. It has USB transfer and apparently
> is (software) upgradeable via USB too. Don't know anything else about it.
>
>
> God bless,
>
> Andrew
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> * -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --*
> * (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)*
> **
> * November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on*
> * the Contribution link below to find out more about*
> * this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!*
> **
> * List Contribution Web Site:*
> **
> * --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> **
> * Thank you for your generous support!*
> **
> * -Matt Dralle, List Admin.*
> **
> **
> * - The Commander-List Email Forum -*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> * --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
> **
> * - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -*
> **
> * --> http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> * *
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________
>
Message 5
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rd, two (2). pls call if you wish to visit about it. mason 817-517-4977
> From: rcdettmer@charter.net> To: commander-list@matronics.com> Subject: R
E: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 07:06:00 -0800> >
ter.net>> > Hi Nico,> No, I didn't. Interesting idea, though. How many hund
reds of thousands of> dollars would the Mr. RPM's cost..?? I have heard the
m mentioned many times> on this list, and assume that the performance upgra
de is significant.> > RD> > > > Dettmer Architecture> 663 Hill Street, San
Luis Obispo, CA 93405> 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865> http://www.dettmera
rchitecture.com/> > -----Original Message-----> From: owner-commander-list-
server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On
Behalf Of nico css> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:56 AM> To: commander-
list@matronics.com> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer> > --> Com
mander-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>> > Ran
dy,> Just as a matter of (academic, I suppose) interest, did you consider>
replacing the engines with the Mr. RPM 800HP conversion?> Nico> > > -----Or
iginal Message-----> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com> [mail
to:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John> Vormbaum>
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:45 AM> To: commander-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer> > --> Commander-List message
posted by: John Vormbaum <john@vormbaum.com>> > Randy,> > I still feel stro
ngly that the JPI is the one to get for these reasons:> > 1) It's a TWIN mo
del, you only need to occupy one hole in your panel> 2) The built-in fuel t
otalizer is great> 3) The data logging & retrieval functions work perfectly
(I love that> feature) via RS-232 to Serial cable.> > I just bring my lapt
op in the airplane every now & then and download all> the data. The softwar
e provided by JPI is great, I can graph CHT, EGT,> Fuel flow, and break the
m down any way I want. Makes a bad plug, failing> valve etc. very easy to d
etect....before it fails.> > Here are a couple of articles on engine manage
ment where the JPI plays a> big part. I like John Deakin's work and tend to
agree with him,> especially vs. the Old Wives' Tales that Lycoming and Con
tinental> occasionally still spew:> > http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182
176-1.html (Good graphics of the> JPI software graphs)> http://www.avweb.co
m/news/pelican/182084-1.html (Love this one, it's the> LOP vs. ROP argument
)> > Here's a link to all Deakin's articles. The JPI appears in many:> http
://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182544-1.html> > Incidentally, I got quite a
break on the price. I have been told that a> JPI install is roughly 40 hrs.
At today's shop rates, your $8k estimate> is about right.> > Cheers,> > /J
ohn> > > > Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:> >> > Thanks Andrew for the response.
I am leaning towards a JPI unit at> > this time. So far I have heard many p
ositive things about JPI. Still> > doing research.> >> >> >> > Randy> >> >>
>> >> >> > *Dettmer Architecture*> >> > *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo,
CA 93405*> >> > *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*> >> > *http://www.dettme
rarchitecture.com/***> >> >> >> > -----Original Message-----> > *From:* own
er-commander-list-server@matronics.com> > [mailto:owner-commander-list-serv
er@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of> > *andrew.bridget@telus.net> > *Sent:* Satu
rday, November 03, 2007 11:02 AM> > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com> > *
Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer> >> >> >> > Randy, my brother
was looking at an AuRacle engine analyser for his> > Twin Comanche; didn't
end up buying one in the end - they were all too> > expensive in South Afr
ica. He said that, given the resources, the> > AuRacle would likely be his
choice. It has USB transfer and apparently> > is (software) upgradeable via
USB too. Don't know anything else about it.> >> >> >> > God bless,> >> > A
ndrew> >> > * *> > * *> > **> > **> > * -- Please Support Your Lists This M
onth --*> > * (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)*> > **> > * November is th
e Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on*> > * the Contribution link below to fi
nd out more about*> > * this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!*> > **>
> * List Contribution Web Site:*> > **> > * --> http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution*> > **> > * Thank you for your generous support!*> > **> > * -Ma
tt Dralle, List Admin.*> > **> > **> > * - The Commander-List Email Forum -
*> > **> > **> > **> > **> > * --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Comma
nder-List*> > **> > * - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -*> > **> > * --> http://forum
s.matronics.com*> > **> > * *> >> >> > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Inf
========================> _
================> > >
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Analyzer |
You would hope it would be, but it's.....not. For some reason they never
really got the engine/prop combo right, and the airplanes just don't
seem to perform like you would expect for the amount of horsepower they
gain. Although I haven't flown one personally; I'm getting this info
secondhand from guys who have owned and/or flown them.
I have however looked in the cowlings, and I will say that when you
stuff an IO-720 in there, it leaves NO room for anything like a wrench
or a screwdriver!
/J
Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
>
> Hi Nico,
> No, I didn't. Interesting idea, though. How many hundreds of thousands of
> dollars would the Mr. RPM's cost..?? I have heard them mentioned many times
> on this list, and assume that the performance upgrade is significant.
>
> RD
>
>
> Dettmer Architecture
> 663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
> 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
> http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of nico css
> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:56 AM
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
>
> Randy,
> Just as a matter of (academic, I suppose) interest, did you consider
> replacing the engines with the Mr. RPM 800HP conversion?
> Nico
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Vormbaum
> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 8:45 AM
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
>
> Randy,
>
> I still feel strongly that the JPI is the one to get for these reasons:
>
> 1) It's a TWIN model, you only need to occupy one hole in your panel
> 2) The built-in fuel totalizer is great
> 3) The data logging & retrieval functions work perfectly (I love that
> feature) via RS-232 to Serial cable.
>
> I just bring my laptop in the airplane every now & then and download all
> the data. The software provided by JPI is great, I can graph CHT, EGT,
> Fuel flow, and break them down any way I want. Makes a bad plug, failing
> valve etc. very easy to detect....before it fails.
>
> Here are a couple of articles on engine management where the JPI plays a
> big part. I like John Deakin's work and tend to agree with him,
> especially vs. the Old Wives' Tales that Lycoming and Continental
> occasionally still spew:
>
> http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182176-1.html (Good graphics of the
> JPI software graphs)
> http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182084-1.html (Love this one, it's the
> LOP vs. ROP argument)
>
> Here's a link to all Deakin's articles. The JPI appears in many:
> http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182544-1.html
>
> Incidentally, I got quite a break on the price. I have been told that a
> JPI install is roughly 40 hrs. At today's shop rates, your $8k estimate
> is about right.
>
> Cheers,
>
> /John
>
>
> Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:
>
>> Thanks Andrew for the response. I am leaning towards a JPI unit at
>> this time. So far I have heard many positive things about JPI. Still
>> doing research.
>>
>>
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Dettmer Architecture*
>>
>> *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*
>>
>> *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*
>>
>> *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of
>> *andrew.bridget@telus.net
>> *Sent:* Saturday, November 03, 2007 11:02 AM
>> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>>
>>
>>
>> Randy, my brother was looking at an AuRacle engine analyser for his
>> Twin Comanche; didn't end up buying one in the end - they were all too
>> expensive in South Africa. He said that, given the resources, the
>> AuRacle would likely be his choice. It has USB transfer and apparently
>> is (software) upgradeable via USB too. Don't know anything else about it.
>>
>>
>>
>> God bless,
>>
>> Andrew
>>
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 685... great aircraft or great challenge? |
Rod, in answer to your questions about the 685. I have been flying and
training in 685's for many years. I also was part owner in a service shop that
specialized in 685's. Sometimes we would have as many as 6 on my ramp or in the
hangar at a time.
1. It is a heavy airplane but it has an adequate useful load. You can carry
fuel or people but not both at the same time. It carries 320 gal of fuel so
with two people you can go a long way! It is the quietest cabin you will
ever fly in a prop driven airplane.
2. The geared engines are sensitive but with good overhauls and proper
flying techniques they should last. The most common problems are cylinders and
cracked cases. All the parts are available for the engine but there are only a
few shops that still support the fuel injection system but it is supported.
3. The airframe is very dependable and most parts are available. The most
important parts, landing gear etc. are common to all flat nacelle Commanders.
The airframe is 690 Turbo Commander and the rest is generic.
4. The spar inspection is $10-12K every 36 months but if corrosion is found
there are shorter inspection intervals for the effected area. You are right,
it cost about $100k to replace the spar cap but that is unusual. If the spar
is good now it probably will continue to be good.
The list of AD's on Commanders is actually very short. Check the list for a
piper Navajo or a 421!.
The parts that are hardest to get are the Turbocharger system. I recommend
keeping a spare turbo around.
Training is available. I can come to Australia.
Bill Leff
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