Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:05 AM - Re: Rush Limbaugh and me (JTAddington)
2. 05:29 AM - Re: Rush Limbaugh and me (Steve)
3. 07:36 AM - Re: My conversation with Rush Limbaugh (Victor C. Rupert)
4. 08:39 AM - Re: Rush Limbaugh and me (Steve @ Col-East)
5. 10:44 AM - Post Mortem - Matronics List Pummeled By Spam... (Matt Dralle)
6. 10:53 AM - Re: environment global warming (Steve @ Col-East)
7. 12:03 PM - Re: environment global warming (John Vormbaum)
8. 04:32 PM - Re: Rush Limbaugh and me (nico css)
9. 06:15 PM - Re: environment global warming (Bill Bow)
10. 07:52 PM - Re: environment global warming (Deneal Schilmeister)
11. 09:54 PM - Re: environment global warming (John Vormbaum)
12. 10:23 PM - Re: Rush Limbaugh and me (yourtcfg@aol.com)
Message 1
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Subject: | Rush Limbaugh and me |
Nico, I personally agree with everything you have said. We are in world
war
three but it is a war like we have never had to fight before and people
just
don't understand it. We are like the British were in our revolutionary
war,
they were used to having people march out and stand face to face and
fight
and we are used to being able to see who we are fighting. In this war we
don't see who our enemy is until they have struck and it may be some one
we
thought was our friend and have been in this country for a long time. If
that is not bad enough like you said we have people that are trying to
take
over and destroy us from within, liberals.
Sorry but I get on my band box when these people start trying to take
away
my freedoms. I was in the Air Force and when you see that flag go up and
down on a military base and it does not make your spine tingle there is
something wrong. I love this country and don't want it destroyed.
Sorry if I seem to be rambling but I got to bed near midnight and woke
up at
three.
Jim Addington
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:03 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me
Folks, this list is quite unique as it has content that are almost
always of
profound interest to other members, oftentimes not about Commanders but
always about the group=92s interests. It=92s more like a fire-side chat
than a
technical list. And when people with common interests and passions sit
together and talk, many a profound thing is exchanged. We talk about
Commanders (first and foremost) but also about aviation in general,
aircraft
systems, engines, navaids, others=92 experiences, life loves, others who
had
an unequal number of take-offs and landings, politics, morals, and
sometimes
even religion. Those who are offended leave and they even leave with
decorum. Those who have remained with us over the years have forged an
invisible (to some) familial bond that is hard to describe, but wholly
unnecessary to define. Not everyone agrees with what is said but an
unspoken
rule of respect prevails without sowing discord or insult. It=92s indeed
unique, enjoyable, and a privilege.
Everyone who has been on this list for a while knows that I, like so
many
others, am a patriot of this country in the extreme and not ashamed to
proclaim that whenever I have a chance. But what does that mean? The
best I
can convey that to you, my family, is with a conversation I had with
Rush
Limbaugh last Monday. I didn=92t get to say everything I wanted, which
is
quite understandable considering the time issues with that medium, but
that
Rush gave me more than 6 minutes was in itself quite an achievement.
In this time of war, which I believe was perfectly justified and
necessary,
assistance to our troops is of paramount importance, calling all of us
to
find some manner in which we can express our gratitude. I chose the
manner
of my support as I described it to Rush. Some of you might be interested
in
it. If you believe it=92s appropriate, please pass this on. We have
already
cut our first check for MCLEF and hope to do it again at the end of
November.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM
Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Nico
PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really
exist.
Well, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag=85
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming
Ah! At last. Something from the list.
I posted some messages this week and for some reason they just
disappeared
into never land. I=92ll see if this one is posted.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg@aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites that
measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is
simply
no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the
recorded
mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!! That may be
why
we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global climate
change?? JB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john@vormbaum.com>
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
Nico,
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is
a
huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs.
Methane
and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the
stupidity
of the politicians.
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
US,
try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I
see
it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not
so
many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of
flying, and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident.
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
past.
As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science
classes
in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a
stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The
most we
can do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200
million
years after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing
that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species.
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
clean
itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean
and
unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye,
geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing
battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't
log
the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I
live
at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF
earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for
lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left
as
far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window
and
see lush, green, forested mountains.
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me
driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be
called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
environment. I
bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car.
/ramble mode off/
/John
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico. <G>
>
> bilbo
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com?> ] *On Behalf Of
*nico
css
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> Steve,
>
> I don=92t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
> the
environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean > up
where we picnic and don=92t waste water, prefer a cleaner running >
engine
than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that
no
reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or
show
care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good and
responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the
globe=92s
temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=EFve and
believe in
Santa Claus, I=92ll join you if it > means being responsible custodians
of the
environment. But to believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate
change, is just not rational.
>
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 >
eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere >
reaching up
to 20,000=92 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The
August
1883 eruptions caused 100=92 tsunamis and boats rocked > in South
Africa,
thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions
could
be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius,
nearly
3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and
toxic
gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the
stratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year
global
acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after
the
explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The
amount
of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square >
kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and >
increasing
the landmass of several islands in the area.
>
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. >
The
planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the >
temperatures,
normalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call
a
pristine environment.
>
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
>
see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched >
into
the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties,
the
Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions
of
tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine
fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires '
and
the planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then
it=92s
hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a
hoax to
blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where
have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or,
the
Kyoto treaty?
>
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for >
responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, >
my
friend. You wouldn=92t part with five bucks if someone proposed this >
as a
business deal to you. You=92d probably call the cops.
>
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
>
deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with >
friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in >
the
morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is
more
than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever
in
the 10 years I=92ve been playing there several times per > week, has the
temperature been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I
can
go 20 miles west and 1,000=92 down to the coast > and the temperature
would be
vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you=92ve
heard
of the Santa Ana=92s, I=92m sure) the > entire region=92s temperature is
hay-wire.
Where do they measure and > when do they measure to come up with a
definite
1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they
do
it 1,000 years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to
determine the > danger we=92re in?
>
> Nah. I=92d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud.
This >
aint mud.
>
> Nico
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com?> ] *On Behalf Of >
*Steve
@ Col-East
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> I believe in the hoax.
>
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
>
environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, >
manufacturing,
transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000
years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the
industrial age. The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as
billions
more people adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of
these
gases in the atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be
in
dispute.
>
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I >
guess
I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem >
sustainable.
>
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. >
But
if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* BobsV35B@aol.com <mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com
<mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com?> >
>
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:commander-list@matronics.com
<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com?> >
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> nico@cybersuperstore.com <mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com
<mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com?> > writes:
>
> Surely, you don=92t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's
>
> * *
>
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>
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">http://forums.matronics.com* <http://forums.matronics.com*/>
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|
Subject: | Rush Limbaugh and me |
Nico,
Well said and appropriate for this Veterans Day. Your discussion with
Rush
is indeed insightful and informative for those who have not thought this
through. Apathy is the =93disease=94 that will get us in the end unless
we
fight it. Activism is the tool of the liberal minority and they have
proven
it works. Our conservative =93behinds=94 must get up and go to work
speaking,
writing, and participating in the fight to keep our freedoms intact.
Just
take a look at the freedoms of flight that are slowly being eroded by
our
F=92nAA and the big commercial airlines. They will not give up as long
as we
allow them to succeed!!! Whatever happened to =93The majority rules=94?
One
outspoken liberal can take away our freedoms one board at a time if we
the
conservative majority continue to do nothing and only wish them away. I
only hope that in my lifetime I won=92t be required to run my passengers
through a gauntlet of searches and documentation that are constantly
being
proposed as well as being required to pay a fee each time I leave the
ground.
Well, enough. I=92m going flying!
Regards,
Steve Gilson
_____
From: nico css [mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:03 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me
Folks, this list is quite unique as it has content that are almost
always of
profound interest to other members, oftentimes not about Commanders but
always about the group=92s interests. It=92s more like a fire-side chat
than a
technical list. And when people with common interests and passions sit
together and talk, many a profound thing is exchanged. We talk about
Commanders (first and foremost) but also about aviation in general,
aircraft
systems, engines, navaids, others=92 experiences, life loves, others who
had
an unequal number of take-offs and landings, politics, morals, and
sometimes
even religion. Those who are offended leave and they even leave with
decorum. Those who have remained with us over the years have forged an
invisible (to some) familial bond that is hard to describe, but wholly
unnecessary to define. Not everyone agrees with what is said but an
unspoken
rule of respect prevails without sowing discord or insult. It=92s indeed
unique, enjoyable, and a privilege.
Everyone who has been on this list for a while knows that I, like so
many
others, am a patriot of this country in the extreme and not ashamed to
proclaim that whenever I have a chance. But what does that mean? The
best I
can convey that to you, my family, is with a conversation I had with
Rush
Limbaugh last Monday. I didn=92t get to say everything I wanted, which
is
quite understandable considering the time issues with that medium, but
that
Rush gave me more than 6 minutes was in itself quite an achievement.
In this time of war, which I believe was perfectly justified and
necessary,
assistance to our troops is of paramount importance, calling all of us
to
find some manner in which we can express our gratitude. I chose the
manner
of my support as I described it to Rush. Some of you might be interested
in
it. If you believe it=92s appropriate, please pass this on. We have
already
cut our first check for MCLEF and hope to do it again at the end of
November.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM
Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Nico
PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really
exist.
Well, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag=85
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming
Ah! At last. Something from the list.
I posted some messages this week and for some reason they just
disappeared
into never land. I=92ll see if this one is posted.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg@aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites that
measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is
simply
no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the
recorded
mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!! That may be
why
we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global climate
change?? JB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john@vormbaum.com>
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
Nico,
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is
a
huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs.
Methane
and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the
stupidity
of the politicians.
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
US,
try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I
see
it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not
so
many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of
flying, and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident.
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
past.
As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science
classes
in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a
stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The
most we
can do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200
million
years after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing
that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species.
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
clean
itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean
and
unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye,
geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing
battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't
log
the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I
live
at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF
earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for
lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left
as
far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window
and
see lush, green, forested mountains.
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me
driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be
called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
environment. I
bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car.
/ramble mode off/
/John
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico. <G>
>
> bilbo
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com?> ] *On Behalf Of
*nico
css
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> Steve,
>
> I don=92t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
> the
environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean > up
where we picnic and don=92t waste water, prefer a cleaner running >
engine
than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that
no
reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or
show
care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good and
responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the
globe=92s
temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=EFve and
believe in
Santa Claus, I=92ll join you if it > means being responsible custodians
of the
environment. But to believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate
change, is just not rational.
>
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 >
eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere >
reaching up
to 20,000=92 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The
August
1883 eruptions caused 100=92 tsunamis and boats rocked > in South
Africa,
thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions
could
be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius,
nearly
3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and
toxic
gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the
stratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year
global
acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after
the
explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The
amount
of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square >
kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and >
increasing
the landmass of several islands in the area.
>
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. >
The
planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the >
temperatures,
normalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call
a
pristine environment.
>
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
>
see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched >
into
the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties,
the
Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions
of
tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine
fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires '
and
the planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then
it=92s
hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a
hoax to
blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where
have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or,
the
Kyoto treaty?
>
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for >
responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, >
my
friend. You wouldn=92t part with five bucks if someone proposed this >
as a
business deal to you. You=92d probably call the cops.
>
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
>
deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with >
friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in >
the
morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is
more
than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever
in
the 10 years I=92ve been playing there several times per > week, has the
temperature been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I
can
go 20 miles west and 1,000=92 down to the coast > and the temperature
would be
vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you=92ve
heard
of the Santa Ana=92s, I=92m sure) the > entire region=92s temperature is
hay-wire.
Where do they measure and > when do they measure to come up with a
definite
1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they
do
it 1,000 years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to
determine the > danger we=92re in?
>
> Nah. I=92d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud.
This >
aint mud.
>
> Nico
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com?> ] *On Behalf Of >
*Steve
@ Col-East
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> I believe in the hoax.
>
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
>
environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, >
manufacturing,
transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000
years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the
industrial age. The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as
billions
more people adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of
these
gases in the atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be
in
dispute.
>
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I >
guess
I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem >
sustainable.
>
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. >
But
if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* BobsV35B@aol.com <mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com
<mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com?> >
>
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:commander-list@matronics.com
<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com?> >
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> nico@cybersuperstore.com <mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com
<mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com?> > writes:
>
> Surely, you don=92t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> See what's
>
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>
> * *
>
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">http://forums.matronics.com* <http://forums.matronics.com*/>
>
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> * *
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
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Message 3
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|
Subject: | Re: My conversation with Rush Limbaugh |
Nico,
Way to go!!! I had the thrill of hearing you live that day and almost
stood up in the car on the way to the airport! I didn't piece together
that it was you until now.
Bravo Sir!
Victor
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 11:19 AM
Subject: Commander-List: My conversation with Rush Limbaugh
Folks, I had an interesting conversation with Rush last Monday.
Some of you might be interested in it. If you believe it's
appropriate, please pass this on. We have already cut our first check
for MCLEF and hope to do it again at the end of November.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM
Let me know what you think.
If you Google "rush Limbaugh civil war" it comes up second or third
and you will be able to hook up to his site with the transcript.
Thanks
Nico
PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really
exist. Well, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag.
Message 4
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|
From: | "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2@sover.net> |
Subject: | Re: Rush Limbaugh and me |
Nico,
I wish I was better with words, and that we could still enjoy a beer
together while disagreeing entirely. Before saying anything, I believe
your deep feelings for the country are entirely genuine, and your
motivations honorable. (Do you ever believe this of the other
'side'?)There is something of great value there. But the passionate
hatred of half of your countrymen is alarming. Do you guys honestly
believe all that crap about liberals being out to take down your
country? That they hate freedom? That they want the terrorists to win?
There's no shortage of you guys telling each other that. But have you
ever talked to a 'liberal' and aksed what it was they wanted? What they
dreamed of for their country? Have you ever researched what liberalism
even is? For that matter, have you (guys) ever checked to see that you
really are conservative? Something might be going wrong if the best and
brightest conservative thinkers are chugging up one track, while
self-professed 'conservatives' are speeding the train somewhere else
entirely. When George Will, Buckley and Buchanon are turning around to
see where the rest of the train has gone, there might be a problem with
modern conservatism. It's looking a lot more like fascism. How many
freedoms were lost under liberals? I am not going to live a life in fear
of terrorist bogeymen. I am not going to change radically my notions of
what passes for freedom. This idea that this is World War Three is
ridiculus. We withstood a civil war, two real world wars, and the Soviet
empire, without radically changing our society.
My wife and I built our house with a local carpenter, after I cleared
our land. He's a good guy and we liked him a lot, and the feeling was
mutual. We worked together through rain and snow and sub-zero
temperatures building our house. He would arrive at our site in a
cheerful mood. Each morning after listening to his favorite morning
broadcaster, he became angrier and angrier, cursing liberals and
everything they stood for. The hatred and vitriol coming from the radio
was alarming, and I wondered both how so many could believe what they
were hearing as fact; and why people wished to listen to something that
made them so angry day after day. While we are not liberals in the new
sense of the word, we disagreed with an awful lot of what we heard. And
of course if you disagree you are against freedom and for the
terrorists, and for those that wish to bring our country down. It was
very awkward.
Citizens must watch carefully when leaders set up bogeymen and perpetual
war, and act in the name of protecting freedom while proclaiming that
those that disagree are the enemy. I've met a lot of people too, who
profess deeply held religious beliefs of love and compassion, but act
essentially in their own self interest.
(P.S. I'm not a liberal, I'm not a conservative, and I was not raised a
Christian. I believe that much of what the radical left believes is as
goofy as the radical right. Good old fashioned conservatives and
liberals were excellent when kept in balance. But some folks nowadays
are taking the ball and running in completely wacky directions. That
there should be unlimited and unregulated immigration is just plain
stupid. That we should even be debating torture is apalling.)
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 1:02 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me
Folks, this list is quite unique as it has content that are almost
always of profound interest to other members, oftentimes not about
Commanders but always about the group's interests. It's more like a
fire-side chat than a technical list. And when people with common
interests and passions sit together and talk, many a profound thing is
exchanged. We talk about Commanders (first and foremost) but also about
aviation in general, aircraft systems, engines, navaids, others'
experiences, life loves, others who had an unequal number of take-offs
and landings, politics, morals, and sometimes even religion. Those who
are offended leave and they even leave with decorum. Those who have
remained with us over the years have forged an invisible (to some)
familial bond that is hard to describe, but wholly unnecessary to
define. Not everyone agrees with what is said but an unspoken rule of
respect prevails without sowing discord or insult. It's indeed unique,
enjoyable, and a privilege.
Everyone who has been on this list for a while knows that I, like so
many others, am a patriot of this country in the extreme and not ashamed
to proclaim that whenever I have a chance. But what does that mean? The
best I can convey that to you, my family, is with a conversation I had
with Rush Limbaugh last Monday. I didn't get to say everything I wanted,
which is quite understandable considering the time issues with that
medium, but that Rush gave me more than 6 minutes was in itself quite an
achievement.
In this time of war, which I believe was perfectly justified and
necessary, assistance to our troops is of paramount importance, calling
all of us to find some manner in which we can express our gratitude. I
chose the manner of my support as I described it to Rush. Some of you
might be interested in it. If you believe it's appropriate, please pass
this on. We have already cut our first check for MCLEF and hope to do it
again at the end of November.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM
Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Nico
PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really
exist. Well, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:49 PM
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming
Ah! At last. Something from the list.
I posted some messages this week and for some reason they just
disappeared into never land. I'll see if this one is posted.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg@aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:52 PM
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites
that measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is
simply no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the
recorded mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!!
That may be why we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase
"Global climate change?? JB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john@vormbaum.com>
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
<john@vormbaum.com>
Nico,
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme
is a huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2
vs. Methane and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator
of the stupidity of the politicians.
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
US, try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash
when I see it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or
elephants (OK, not so many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle
as I can outside of flying, and generally try to be a
zero-environmental-impact resident.
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental
science classes in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly
is that it is a stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the
planet. The most we can do is make it unlivable for humans & several
other species. 200 million years after that, the Earth will once again
be beautiful, never noticing that we were ever here. It will also be
teeming with new species.
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
clean itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100%
clean and unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an
eye, geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been
ongoing battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we
shouldn't log the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way
overblown. I live at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907,
after the big SF earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF
down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds
were all that was left as far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years
later, and I look out my window and see lush, green, forested mountains.
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch
me driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should
be called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a
normal car.
/ramble mode off/
/John
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico. <G>
>
> bilbo
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *nico
css
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> Steve,
>
> I don't disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
> the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean
> up where we picnic and don't waste water, prefer a cleaner running >
engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly >
believe that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when >
we are done or show care when we deal with what we do to the >
environment is a good and responsible thing to do. But to assume that >
we are influencing the globe's temperature is just not rational. If >
you claim to be na=EFve and believe in Santa Claus, I'll join you if it
> means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe
> that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just not rational.
>
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 >
eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere >
reaching up to 20,000' with the noise being heard up to 100 miles >
away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100' tsunamis and boats rocked >
in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of >
the explosions could be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away >
and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic >
kilometers of ash and toxic gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and >
sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and spread it all >
over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The sky was >
blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explosion and >
artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash >
that fell back to the earth covered about one million square >
kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and >
increasing the landmass of several islands in the area.
>
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal.
> The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the >
temperatures, normalized the weather, and today that area is what some >
tourists call a pristine environment.
>
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if
I > see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched >
into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the >
nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events >
spewing millions of tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown >
amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, >
massive forest fires - and the planet deals with it, as it has been >
for millions of years, then it's hard to swallow the propaganda of >
global warming as anything but a hoax to blackmail us into parting >
with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you seen a more >
blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty?
>
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for >
responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, >
my friend. You wouldn't part with five bucks if someone proposed this >
as a business deal to you. You'd probably call the cops.
>
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or
2 > deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with
> friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in >
the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference >
is more than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. >
Never, ever in the 10 years I've been playing there several times per >
week, has the temperature been the same at the house and at the >
courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and 1,000' down to the coast >
and the temperature would be vastly different again. On the same day. >
If the wind blows (you've heard of the Santa Ana's, I'm sure) the >
entire region's temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and >
when do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? >
Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years >
ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the >
danger we're in?
>
> Nah. I'd stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud.
This > aint mud.
>
> Nico
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of >
*Steve @ Col-East
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> I believe in the hoax.
>
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting
the > environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, >
manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all >
contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at >
the dawn of the industrial age. The rate of change is increasing >
dramatically as billions more people adopt our style of living. The >
fact that the amount of these gases in the atmosphere influence the >
temperature cannot seriously be in dispute.
>
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I >
guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem >
sustainable.
>
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks.
> But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* BobsV35B@aol.com <mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com>
>
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> nico@cybersuperstore.com <mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com> writes:
>
> Surely, you don't buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
>
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chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> * *
> * *
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> * *
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|
Subject: | Post Mortem - Matronics List Pummeled By Spam... |
Dear Listers,
Over a 3-day period, Thursday 11/8 though Saturday 11/10, the Matronics Lists were
pummeled with over 450,000 spam emails causing posting delays and a few duplicate
messages. Yeah, I really said nearly half a million spams! The good
news is that I don't believe a single one of them actually made it to the Lists
thanks to the aggressive List filtering code and the Barracuda spam filter.
The bad news was that it caused quite a back log of email messages starting Friday
and continuing until late Saturday when I noticed that delivery seemed a bit
sluggish. By about 11pm on Saturday night, I had managed to get the backlog
cleared out of the spam filter by temporarily adjusting some of the filtering.
A check of the queues this morning, and everything looks like its working great
and there are no incoming filtering delays and spam levels appear to be back
to "normal".
There were a number of people asking what was going on, so I thought that I'd send
out a follow up post mortem on the event...
November is the annual List Fund Raiser. Your contribution directly enables me
to buy systems like the Barracuda spam filter that keep the List free of that
garbage. Please make a contribution to support your Lists!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 6
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|
From: | "Steve @ Col-East" <steve2@sover.net> |
Subject: | Re: environment global warming |
Oh for Pete's sake. You can argue the causes of 'global warming', and
whether we have any responsibility, but to argue it isn't happening? I
did a search for NASA global warming report, and the only place the
earth isn't warming is on Fox News. The NASA chief himself was quoted as
saying, "I have no doubt that ... a trend of global warming exists. I am
not sure that it is fair to say that it is a problem we must wrestle
with." He went on to speculate whether or not we should do anything
about it. Griffin is of course a Bush appointee.
The chief NASA climatologist is sounding all the alarms he can about the
warming trend and the fact that the administration is doing all they can
to suppress the data, and restrict the interaction of government
scientists with the public.
Glaciers are dissappearing of mountains all over the world. For the
first time in history the Northwest Passage is open to navigation. 19 of
the twentiest warmest years on record have been since 1980.
Back to stacking wood......
----- Original Message -----
From: yourtcfg@aol.com
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites
that measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is
simply no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the
recorded mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!!
That may be why we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase
"Global climate change?? JB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john@vormbaum.com>
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
<john@vormbaum.com>
Nico,
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme
is a huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2
vs. Methane and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator
of the stupidity of the politicians.
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
US, try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash
when I see it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or
elephants (OK, not so many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle
as I can outside of flying, and generally try to be a
zero-environmental-impact resident.
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental
science classes in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly
is that it is a stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the
planet. The most we can do is make it unlivable for humans & several
other species. 200 million years after that, the Earth will once again
be beautiful, never noticing that we were ever here. It will also be
teeming with new species.
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
clean itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100%
clean and unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an
eye, geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been
ongoing battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we
shouldn't log the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way
overblown. I live at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907,
after the big SF earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF
down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds
were all that was left as far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years
later, and I look out my window and see lush, green, forested mountains.
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch
me driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should
be called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a
normal car.
/ramble mode off/
/John
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico. <G>
>
> bilbo
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *nico
css
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> Steve,
>
> I don=99t disagree with the notion that we ought to be
conservators of > the environment. I pick up behind me when I
accidentally litter, clean > up where we picnic and don=99t waste
water, prefer a cleaner running > engine than one that spews dirt into
the air and so on. I firmly > believe that no reasonable person would
disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or show care when we deal
with what we do to the > environment is a good and responsible thing to
do. But to assume that > we are influencing the globe=99s
temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=C3=AFve and
believe in Santa Claus, I=99ll join you if it > means being
responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe > that we can,
are able, to affect climate change, is just not rational.
>
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 >
eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere >
reaching up to 20,000=99 with the noise being heard up to 100
miles > away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100=99 tsunamis and
boats rocked > in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them.
The sound of > the explosions could be heard in Australia more than
2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away. It shot
more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and toxic gasses, such as sulfur
dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and
spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain.
The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after the
explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The
amount of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million
square > kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and
> increasing the landmass of several islands in the area.
>
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal.
> The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the >
temperatures, normalized the weather, and today that area is what some >
tourists call a pristine environment.
>
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if
I > see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched >
into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the >
nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events >
spewing millions of tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown >
amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, >
massive forest fires =93 and the planet deals with it, as it has
been > for millions of years, then it=99s hard to swallow the
propaganda of > global warming as anything but a hoax to blackmail us
into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you
seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto
treaty?
>
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for >
responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, >
my friend. You wouldn=99t part with five bucks if someone proposed
this > as a business deal to you. You=99d probably call the cops.
>
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or
2 > deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with
> friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in >
the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference >
is more than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. >
Never, ever in the 10 years I=99ve been playing there several
times per > week, has the temperature been the same at the house and at
the > courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and 1,000=99 down
to the coast > and the temperature would be vastly different again. On
the same day. > If the wind blows (you=99ve heard of the Santa
Ana=99s, I=99m sure) the > entire region=99s
temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and > when do they
measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? > Satellites?
Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years > ago which
is the time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the > danger
we=99re in?
>
> Nah. I=99d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see
mud. This > aint mud.
>
> Nico
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of >
*Steve @ Col-East
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> I believe in the hoax.
>
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting
the > environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, >
manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all >
contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at >
the dawn of the industrial age. The rate of change is increasing >
dramatically as billions more people adopt our style of living. The >
fact that the amount of these gases in the atmosphere influence the >
temperature cannot seriously be in dispute.
>
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I >
guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem >
sustainable.
>
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks.
> But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* BobsV35B@aol.com <mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com>
>
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> nico@cybersuperstore.com <mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com> writes:
>
> Surely, you don=99t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
>
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chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> * *
> * *
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> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> * http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
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|
Subject: | Re: environment global warming |
Steve,
I'm not saying the globe isn't warming. I'm kinda glad, actually,
because it means we're not in an ice age. Did you know that Greenland
was named Greenland because when it was discovered, it was GREEN? As in,
no ice.
Climate ebbs & flows. Again, I try to leave as few footprints as
possible....but even the NASA chief climatologist isn't sold on the
notion that we need to jump on the "fix it!" bandwagon. Of course, solid
science rarely intrudes on the debate. Everyone is quick to point out,
"he's a BUSH APPOINTEE! He must be EVIL! Forget the 9 years of college &
multiple degrees!" So if he was a Gore appointee, he'd be screaming
bloody murder, based on the same report?
Science doesn't depend on "consensus" or "debate". Science is about
building a PROVABLE hypothesis. Nobody has done that yet. Why? Climate
modeling is not bias-proof science. Modeling the future is entirely
dependent on subjective experiences from today and yesterday.
As far as the media, they tend to focus ONLY on the negative, and that
bothers me. Yes, temperatures are warming......what about the GOOD news
that goes with that? Reforestation will happen more quickly. Areas
previously unsuitable for agriculture will be able to support farming.
Rainforests may actually expand. Check the hurricane reports for the
last 75 years? There are more storms, they apparently are more severe,
but it's all part of the normal cycle. And from '75 - 95, they were all
extremely tame.....perhaps there were no fossil fuels being burned for
those 2 decades: http://www.grantchronicles.com/astro129.htm
I'm not ripping your opinion. I'm just not picking sides until I see a
demonstrated provable hypothesis. And even if I'm on the wrong side, I
still think that all we can do is screw things up for us, and when we're
gone, the world will continue on its merry way, none the worse for the wear.
/J
Steve @ Col-East wrote:
> Oh for Pete's sake. You can argue the causes of 'global warming', and
> whether we have any responsibility, but to argue it isn't happening? I
> did a search for NASA global warming report, and the only place the
> earth isn't warming is on Fox News. The NASA chief himself was quoted
> as saying, "I have no doubt that ... a trend of global warming exists.
> I am not sure that it is fair to say that it is a problem we must
> wrestle with." He went on to speculate whether or not we should do
> anything about it. Griffin is of course a Bush appointee.
>
> The chief NASA climatologist is sounding all the alarms he can about
> the warming trend and the fact that the administration is doing all
> they can to suppress the data, and restrict the interaction of
> government scientists with the public.
>
> Glaciers are dissappearing of mountains all over the world. For the
> first time in history the Northwest Passage is open to navigation. 19
> of the twentiest warmest years on record have been since 1980.
>
> Back to stacking wood......
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* yourtcfg@aol.com <mailto:yourtcfg@aol.com>
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 10, 2007 12:51 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the
> satellites that measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press
> release that the is simply no proof of "global warning". In fact,
> in a related piece , the recorded mid level temps have fallen .036
> deg in the last 20 years!! That may be why we hear less about
> "global warming" and more the phrase "Global_ climate change?? _ JB
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Vormbaum <john@vormbaum.com>
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> <john@vormbaum.com <mailto:john@vormbaum.com>>
>
> Nico,
>
> I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset
> theme is a huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on
> JUST CO2 vs. Methane and a collection of other greenhouse gases is
> one indicator of the stupidity of the politicians.
>
> I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in
> the US, try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick
> up trash when I see it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt
> whales or elephants (OK, not so many elephants here), live as
> "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of flying, and generally try
> to be a zero-environmental-impact resident.
>
> I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the
> planet's past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative)
> environmental science classes in college, one thing that becomes
> clear pretty quickly is that it is a stretch, and a conceit, to
> think that we can destroy the planet. The most we can do is make
> it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200 million years
> after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing
> that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species.
>
> Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability
> to clean itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would
> be 100% clean and unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the
> merest blink of an eye, geologically. Hopefully there would still
> be whales left then.
>
> A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been
> ongoing battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that
> we shouldn't log the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging
> argument is way overblown. I live at the foot of the Santa Cruz
> Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF earthquake, they clearcut the
> ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuild San
> Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left as far as the eye
> can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window and see
> lush, green, forested mountains.
>
> I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't
> catch me driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here,
> they should be called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the
> savior of the environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius
> manufacture is 3x a normal car.
>
> /ramble mode off/
>
> /John
>
> Bill Bow wrote:
> >
> > Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico. <G>
> >
> > bilbo
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com> >
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com?>] *On Behalf Of
> *nico css
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>
> > *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
> >
> > Steve,
> >
> > I dont disagree with the notion that we ought to be
> conservators of > the environment. I pick up behind me when I
> accidentally litter, clean > up where we picnic and dont waste
> water, prefer a cleaner running > engine than one that spews dirt
> into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that no reasonable
> person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or show
> care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good
> and responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are
> influencing the globes temperature is just not rational. If > you
> claim to be nave and believe in Santa Claus, Ill join you if it
> > means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to
> believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just
> not rational.
> >
> > Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883
> > eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere >
> reaching up to 20,000 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles
> > away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100 tsunamis and boats
> rocked > in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them.
> The sound of > the explosions could be heard in Australia more
> than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away.
> It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and toxic gasses,
> such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the
> stratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a
> five-year global acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon
> was blue for years after the explosion and > artists painted red
> sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash > that fell back
> to the earth covered about one million square > kilometers
> drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and > increasing
> the landmass of several islands in the area.
> >
> > In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to
> normal. > The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean,
> normalized the > temperatures, normalized the weather, and today
> that area is what some > tourists call a pristine environment.
> >
> > Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but
> if I > see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein
> launched > into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on
> fire in the > nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other
> natural events > spewing millions of tons of toxic material into
> the air; an unknown > amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic
> magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires and the planet
> deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then its
> hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but
> a hoax to blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of
> money. I mean, where have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the
> carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty?
> >
> > I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist
> for > responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a
> swindle, > my friend. You wouldnt part with five bucks if someone
> proposed this > as a business deal to you. Youd probably call the
> cops.
> >
> > One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by
> 1 or 2 > deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay
> tennis with > friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to
> play at 7 AM in > the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the
> temperature difference > is more than 18 degrees between the house
> and the tennis courts. > Never, ever in the 10 years Ive been
> playing there several times per > week, has the temperature been
> the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I can go 20
> miles west and 1,000 down to the coast > and the temperature
> would be vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind
> blows (youve heard of the Santa Anas, Im sure) the > entire
> regions temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and > when
> do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? >
> Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000
> years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to
> determine the > danger were in?
> >
> > Nah. Id stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud.
> This > aint mud.
> >
> > Nico
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com> >
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com?>] *On Behalf Of
> > *Steve @ Col-East
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>
> > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
> >
> > I believe in the hoax.
> >
> > I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be
> affecting the > environment in a dramatic fashion very odd.
> Agriculture, > manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling,
> recreation all > contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels,
> begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the industrial age. The rate
> of change is increasing > dramatically as billions more people
> adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of these
> gases in the atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot
> seriously be in dispute.
> >
> > Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise.
> I > guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this
> doesn't seem > sustainable.
> >
> > I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big
> blocks. > But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
> >
> > Green of Peak..... I like that.....
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* BobsV35B@aol.com <mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com>
> <mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com <mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com?>>
> >
> > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>
> > <mailto:commander-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:commander-list@matronics.com?>>
> >
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
> >
> > In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> > nico@cybersuperstore.com <mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com>
> <mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com
> <mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com?>> writes:
> >
> > Surely, you dont buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
> >
> > Good Evening Nico,
> >
> > What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
> >
> > Happy Skies,
> >
> > Old Bob
> > AKA
> > Bob Siegfried
> > Ancient Aviator
> > Stearman N3977A
> > Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> > Downers Grove, IL 60516
> > 630 985-8503
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > See what's
> >
> > * *
> >
> > * *
> >
> >
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> >
> > *href="http://forums.matronics.com
> <http://forums.matronics.com/>">http://forums.matronics.com*
> <http://forums.matronics.com*/>
> >
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> >
> > * *
> > * *
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> > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*
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> > * *
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
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> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
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Subject: | Rush Limbaugh and me |
HI Steve,
I beg the indulgence of the listers.
You are ok with words, don=92t worry about that. We are not in
disagreement on
many of the issues and we could quite peacefully have a beer. You
didn=92t
resort to insults in your response, which I appreciate, but, then again,
you
did say you are not a liberal. Your decorum is appreciated. Thank you
for
that.
Let me preface my response by saying, unchecked power in either
direction is
undesirable. But conservatism is not balanced by liberalism, but by
accountability; I assume as liberalism would be. The task of
accountability
rests with the media, but the media, the watchdogs of society, has
become
the attack dogs and safe-deposit boxes for the liberals, so no real
accountability has been practiced for more than 50 years on either
ideology.
Something you said piqued my interest, and that is =93=85we are not
liberals in
the new sense of the word=85=94 The word =93liberal=94 in the old sense,
means, in
short, one who is a =91free thinker=92. I=92d like to think about myself
as one
with a free will that think freely inside and outside the box. So, in
the
old sense of the word, I guess I would be a liberal. In the new sense,
however, there is no chance that I would be considered a liberal. It is
because the meaning of the word has been stripped from the language and
replaced with another meaning that is meant to soothe real free thinkers
into believing that the same principles apply as before, which is not
the
case. Instead, the real, covert meaning is only revealed by intense
scrutiny
and hard questions, a few of which I ask below.
Similar concepts have been taken away from the language by overwhelming
media coverage, to mean foreign things, such as the word =91gay=92. A
couple of
decades ago it meant to be happy; today it means to be a homosexual. I
realize and accept that there are people who have different sexual
orientations than I do and I don=92t care one way or the other, just as
much
as I expect others not to care one way or the other that I am straight,
which is another word that has been violently stripped of its meaning. I
don=92t want to get involved into a gay-straight debate but just to
illustrate
the usurpation of benign words making them malignant.
Anyone who, today, claims to be gay would imply homosexuality and
whether
one intends to mean happiness would be meaningless. It would be the
current
understanding of the word that applies. Equally foolish would be to
refer to
oneself as a liberal in the old sense, while the label of contemporary
liberalism would apply. So, it is to the liberal in the modern sense
that I
refer when I speak about liberals.
You asked many good questions. I don=92t want to argue every one of them
at
this point, but I=92d like to ponder on them for a while to be sure that
I do
justice to your questions and respond at another time. In the mean time,
however, let me ask, with the motive of illustrating also my position,
some
questions with which I struggle.
Why would a modern liberal presidential candidate make utterances that
are
indistinguishable from that of Karl Marx and the media do not report
them as
such?
Why would liberal politicians maintain that taxes have to be increased
to
raise more money for the treasury, while exactly the opposite proved to
raise more money?
Why would news about successes in the war in Iraq appear deep inside the
print media instead of on the front pages where they belong?
Why would 41 senators sign a petition, based on inaccurate information,
to
sensor a private citizen=92s right to free speech?
Why would a US president allow secret missile technology to be sold to
one
of the country=92s archenemies?
Why would liberals advocate policies that would remove from parents the
choice in the education of their children?
Why would a sitting president be called a =93liar=94 and having deceived
the
people into war after congress voted twice to give him that authority
and
the UN Security Council voted unanimously for the same thing, while when
pres. Clinton engaged Bosnia in a war, the majority leader of the then
republican-controlled senate said that he is not prepared to criticize a
sitting president in a time of war? (I believe it was Trent Lott, I
cannot
remember but I can look it up for you).
Why would presenting a valid ID to vote be so fiercely opposed by
liberals
when the ballot box is the very artery of our existence depending on its
purity to express the wishes of the citizens of this country?
Why would liberals be so eager to confer amnesty upon millions of people
with marginal economic ability unless they are expected to automatically
become candidates supporting liberal policies? You already expressed
opposition to this, but that only clarifies your position, not that of
the
liberals. You ought to join me in this fight.
Why would liberals be so eager to allow people who are illegally in the
country to vote for representatives unless it is to acquire those votes
for
their candidates?
Why are liberals eager to pacify Muslims but are quick and readily
prepared
to vilify Christians?
Steve, I have so many other questions that impugn the patriotism of
modern-day liberals, to which one only gets diversionary insults when
challenged, that one cannot but believe that they are not in politics
for
the sake of the country, which you and I love, but for the sake of
obtaining
and holding on to absolute power, regardless of the means and the lives
it
cost.
Once the ballot box and the courts have been placed beyond the reach of
the
legal voting public by allowing unidentified people to vote and adding
convicts and illegal immigrants to the voter rolls, do you think that
the
silent majority would accept this foreign culture and just go on? That
was
my question. I believe not. That is why I believe that Rush Limbaugh=92s
crusade of more than 20 years, has retained the option of the ballot box
for
our children and us as an instrument of peaceful change, without having
to
rise up against the authorities to take back that which was fraudulently
taken from us. Rush does not show up for work to make people angry
(that is
entirely your carpenter=92s own demeanor at work), but to confirm what
people
already knew and believed, longing to hear confirmation of their beliefs
in
the public arena of ideas. And, come to think of it, Steve, Rush only
says
what he sees and hears and the liberals are armed to take him down. Why?
Does the mirror appear to reflect to the liberals an image that they
don=92t
want you and I to know about? It certainly appears to be the case.
I stand by what I said, =93Rush has single-handedly prevented this
country=92s
second civil war.=94 Many followed in his footsteps, or in his trenches,
so to
speak, and made a difference. For that we ought to be very grateful.
Respectfully,
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve @
Col-East
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me
Nico,
I wish I was better with words, and that we could still enjoy a beer
together while disagreeing entirely. Before saying anything, I believe
your
deep feelings for the country are entirely genuine, and your motivations
honorable. (Do you ever believe this of the other 'side'?)There is
something
of great value there. But the passionate hatred of half of your
countrymen
is alarming. Do you guys honestly believe all that crap about liberals
being
out to take down your country? That they hate freedom? That they want
the
terrorists to win? There's no shortage of you guys telling each other
that.
But have you ever talked to a 'liberal' and aksed what it was they
wanted?
What they dreamed of for their country? Have you ever researched what
liberalism even is? For that matter, have you (guys) ever checked to see
that you really are conservative? Something might be going wrong if the
best
and brightest conservative thinkers are chugging up one track, while
self-professed 'conservatives' are speeding the train somewhere else
entirely. When George Will, Buckley and Buchanon are turning around to
see
where the rest of the train has gone, there might be a problem with
modern
conservatism. It's looking a lot more like fascism. How many freedoms
were
lost under liberals? I am not going to live a life in fear of terrorist
bogeymen. I am not going to change radically my notions of what passes
for
freedom. This idea that this is World War Three is ridiculus. We
withstood a
civil war, two real world wars, and the Soviet empire, without radically
changing our society.
My wife and I built our house with a local carpenter, after I cleared
our
land. He's a good guy and we liked him a lot, and the feeling was
mutual. We
worked together through rain and snow and sub-zero temperatures building
our
house. He would arrive at our site in a cheerful mood. Each morning
after
listening to his favorite morning broadcaster, he became angrier and
angrier, cursing liberals and everything they stood for. The hatred and
vitriol coming from the radio was alarming, and I wondered both how so
many
could believe what they were hearing as fact; and why people wished to
listen to something that made them so angry day after day. While we are
not
liberals in the new sense of the word, we disagreed with an awful lot of
what we heard. And of course if you disagree you are against freedom and
for
the terrorists, and for those that wish to bring our country down. It
was
very awkward.
Citizens must watch carefully when leaders set up bogeymen and perpetual
war, and act in the name of protecting freedom while proclaiming that
those
that disagree are the enemy. I've met a lot of people too, who profess
deeply held religious beliefs of love and compassion, but act
essentially in
their own self interest.
(P.S. I'm not a liberal, I'm not a conservative, and I was not raised a
Christian. I believe that much of what the radical left believes is as
goofy
as the radical right. Good old fashioned conservatives and liberals were
excellent when kept in balance. But some folks nowadays are taking the
ball
and running in completely wacky directions. That there should be
unlimited
and unregulated immigration is just plain stupid. That we should even be
debating torture is apalling.)
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico <mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com> css
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 1:02 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me
Folks, this list is quite unique as it has content that are almost
always of
profound interest to other members, oftentimes not about Commanders but
always about the group=92s interests. It=92s more like a fire-side chat
than a
technical list. And when people with common interests and passions sit
together and talk, many a profound thing is exchanged. We talk about
Commanders (first and foremost) but also about aviation in general,
aircraft
systems, engines, navaids, others=92 experiences, life loves, others who
had
an unequal number of take-offs and landings, politics, morals, and
sometimes
even religion. Those who are offended leave and they even leave with
decorum. Those who have remained with us over the years have forged an
invisible (to some) familial bond that is hard to describe, but wholly
unnecessary to define. Not everyone agrees with what is said but an
unspoken
rule of respect prevails without sowing discord or insult. It=92s indeed
unique, enjoyable, and a privilege.
Everyone who has been on this list for a while knows that I, like so
many
others, am a patriot of this country in the extreme and not ashamed to
proclaim that whenever I have a chance. But what does that mean? The
best I
can convey that to you, my family, is with a conversation I had with
Rush
Limbaugh last Monday. I didn=92t get to say everything I wanted, which
is
quite understandable considering the time issues with that medium, but
that
Rush gave me more than 6 minutes was in itself quite an achievement.
In this time of war, which I believe was perfectly justified and
necessary,
assistance to our troops is of paramount importance, calling all of us
to
find some manner in which we can express our gratitude. I chose the
manner
of my support as I described it to Rush. Some of you might be interested
in
it. If you believe it=92s appropriate, please pass this on. We have
already
cut our first check for MCLEF and hope to do it again at the end of
November.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM
Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Nico
PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really
exist.
Well, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag=85
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming
Ah! At last. Something from the list.
I posted some messages this week and for some reason they just
disappeared
into never land. I=92ll see if this one is posted.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg@aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites that
measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is
simply
no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the
recorded
mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!! That may be
why
we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global climate
change?? JB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john@vormbaum.com>
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
Nico,
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is
a
huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs.
Methane
and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the
stupidity
of the politicians.
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
US,
try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I
see
it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not
so
many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of
flying, and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident.
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
past.
As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science
classes
in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a
stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The
most we
can do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200
million
years after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing
that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species.
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
clean
itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean
and
unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye,
geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing
battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't
log
the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I
live
at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF
earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for
lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left
as
far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window
and
see lush, green, forested mountains.
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me
driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be
called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
environment. I
bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car.
/ramble mode off/
/John
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico. <G>
>
> bilbo
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com?> ] *On Behalf Of
*nico
css
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> Steve,
>
> I don=92t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
> the
environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean > up
where we picnic and don=92t waste water, prefer a cleaner running >
engine
than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that
no
reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or
show
care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good and
responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the
globe=92s
temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=EFve and
believe in
Santa Claus, I=92ll join you if it > means being responsible custodians
of the
environment. But to believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate
change, is just not rational.
>
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 >
eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere >
reaching up
to 20,000=92 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The
August
1883 eruptions caused 100=92 tsunamis and boats rocked > in South
Africa,
thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions
could
be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius,
nearly
3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and
toxic
gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the
stratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year
global
acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after
the
explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The
amount
of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square >
kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and >
increasing
the landmass of several islands in the area.
>
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. >
The
planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the >
temperatures,
normalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call
a
pristine environment.
>
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
>
see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched >
into
the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties,
the
Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions
of
tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine
fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires '
and
the planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then
it=92s
hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a
hoax to
blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where
have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or,
the
Kyoto treaty?
>
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for >
responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, >
my
friend. You wouldn=92t part with five bucks if someone proposed this >
as a
business deal to you. You=92d probably call the cops.
>
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
>
deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with >
friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in >
the
morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is
more
than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever
in
the 10 years I=92ve been playing there several times per > week, has the
temperature been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I
can
go 20 miles west and 1,000=92 down to the coast > and the temperature
would be
vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you=92ve
heard
of the Santa Ana=92s, I=92m sure) the > entire region=92s temperature is
hay-wire.
Where do they measure and > when do they measure to come up with a
definite
1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they
do
it 1,000 years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to
determine the > danger we=92re in?
>
> Nah. I=92d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud.
This >
aint mud.
>
> Nico
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com?> ] *On Behalf Of >
*Steve
@ Col-East
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> I believe in the hoax.
>
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
>
environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, >
manufacturing,
transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000
years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the
industrial age. The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as
billions
more people adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of
these
gases in the atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be
in
dispute.
>
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I >
guess
I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem >
sustainable.
>
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. >
But
if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* BobsV35B@aol.com <mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com
<mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com?> >
>
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:commander-list@matronics.com
<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com?> >
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> nico@cybersuperstore.com <mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com
<mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com?> > writes:
>
> Surely, you don=92t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's
>
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Subject: | environment global warming |
=93Glaciers are dissappearing of mountains all over the world=94
As the one who picks the =93fly specks (fecal matter) out of the
pepper=94, I=92d
like to point out that the glaciers are actually in the valley between
the
mountains and not on the mountains themselves.<G>
Lighten up gents, the Asians are not going to do anything to help this
and
they are much bigger and polutier(my word).
bilbo
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve @
Col-East
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
Oh for Pete's sake. You can argue the causes of 'global warming', and
whether we have any responsibility, but to argue it isn't happening? I
did a
search for NASA global warming report, and the only place the earth
isn't
warming is on Fox News. The NASA chief himself was quoted as saying, "I
have
no doubt that ... a trend of global warming exists. I am not sure that
it is
fair to say that it is a problem we must wrestle with." He went on to
speculate whether or not we should do anything about it. Griffin is of
course a Bush appointee.
The chief NASA climatologist is sounding all the alarms he can about the
warming trend and the fact that the administration is doing all they can
to
suppress the data, and restrict the interaction of government scientists
with the public.
Glaciers are dissappearing of mountains all over the world. For the
first
time in history the Northwest Passage is open to navigation. 19 of the
twentiest warmest years on record have been since 1980.
Back to stacking wood......
----- Original Message -----
From: yourtcfg@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites that
measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is
simply
no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the
recorded
mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!! That may be
why
we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global climate
change?? JB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john@vormbaum.com>
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
Nico,
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is
a
huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs.
Methane
and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the
stupidity
of the politicians.
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the
US,
try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I
see
it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not
so
many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of
flying, and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident.
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's
past.
As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science
classes
in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a
stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The
most we
can do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200
million
years after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing
that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species.
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to
clean
itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean
and
unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye,
geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing
battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't
log
the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I
live
at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF
earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for
lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left
as
far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window
and
see lush, green, forested mountains.
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me
driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be
called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the
environment. I
bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car.
/ramble mode off/
/John
Bill Bow wrote:
>
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico. <G>
>
> bilbo
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com?> ] *On Behalf Of
*nico
css
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming
>
> Steve,
>
> I don=92t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of
> the
environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean > up
where we picnic and don=92t waste water, prefer a cleaner running >
engine
than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that
no
reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or
show
care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good and
responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the
globe=92s
temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=EFve and
believe in
Santa Claus, I=92ll join you if it > means being responsible custodians
of the
environment. But to believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate
change, is just not rational.
>
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 >
eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere >
reaching up
to 20,000=92 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The
August
1883 eruptions caused 100=92 tsunamis and boats rocked > in South
Africa,
thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions
could
be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius,
nearly
3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and
toxic
gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the
stratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year
global
acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after
the
explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The
amount
of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square >
kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and >
increasing
the landmass of several islands in the area.
>
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. >
The
planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the >
temperatures,
normalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call
a
pristine environment.
>
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I
>
see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched >
into
the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties,
the
Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions
of
tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine
fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires '
and
the planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then
it=92s
hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a
hoax to
blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where
have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or,
the
Kyoto treaty?
>
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for >
responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, >
my
friend. You wouldn=92t part with five bucks if someone proposed this >
as a
business deal to you. You=92d probably call the cops.
>
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2
>
deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with >
friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in >
the
morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is
more
than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever
in
the 10 years I=92ve been playing there several times per > week, has the
temperature been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I
can
go 20 miles west and 1,000=92 down to the coast > and the temperature
would be
vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you=92ve
heard
of the Santa Ana=92s, I=92m sure) the > entire region=92s temperature is
hay-wire.
Where do they measure and > when do they measure to come up with a
definite
1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they
do
it 1,000 years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to
determine the > danger we=92re in?
>
> Nah. I=92d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud.
This >
aint mud.
>
> Nico
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com >
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com?> ] *On Behalf Of >
*Steve
@ Col-East
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> I believe in the hoax.
>
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the
>
environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, >
manufacturing,
transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000
years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the
industrial age. The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as
billions
more people adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of
these
gases in the atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be
in
dispute.
>
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I >
guess
I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem >
sustainable.
>
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. >
But
if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.
>
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* BobsV35B@aol.com <mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com
<mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com?> >
>
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:commander-list@matronics.com
<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com?> >
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> nico@cybersuperstore.com <mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com
<mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com?> > writes:
>
> Surely, you don=92t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See what's
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
>
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">http://forums.matronics.com* <http://forums.matronics.com*/>
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Message 10
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Subject: | environment global warming |
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of John Vormbaum
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 2:01 PM
Steve,
I'm not saying the globe isn't warming. I'm kinda glad, actually,
because it means we're not in an ice age. Did you know that Greenland
was named Greenland because when it was discovered, it was GREEN? As in,
no ice.
NOT EXACTLY, John:
The real story behind the name is given in Erik the Red's Saga, based
on
oral tradition and written down in the early thirteenth century in
Iceland.
After the Icelandic landn=E1m was over, Erik the Red and his father
Thorvald
were forced to leave Norway because one or both of them was involved in
killings (details are not given). After Thorvald died, Erik was involved
in
yet more killings, for which his punishment was three years'
vacation--er, I
mean banishment from Iceland. (And you thought O. J. got off easy.)
He used the time to explore the rumored lands to the west. When his term
of
banishment expired, he returned to Icleand to invite his neighbors and
friends to settle the new country with him. He purposely chose the
pleasant
name Gr=E6nland ("green land") to attract settlers, but the choice
wasn't
exactly misleading. Some parts of Greenland, especially the parts the
Norse
settled, really are green, as these pictures from the tourist board
attest
(www.greenland-guide.dk/outdoor_life_photo.htm). He may have been a
killer,
but at least he wasn't a real-estate scam-artist. He didn't have that
much
to gain by lying anyway, since he didn't charge anyone for the land. As
in
Iceland a century before, the land was free for the taking. Natives had
lived in the area in the past, but at the time of Erik's voyage, only
the
northern part of Greenland was occupied by the Inuit (Eskimos).
The unoccupied land in southern Greenland really was of much higher
quality
than anything that remained unclaimed in Iceland. The greenery that most
interested the settlers was the pasturage, which was good enough to
support
their sheep, goats, horses, swine, and cattle. The Norsemen lived on the
milk and meat from their livestock, supplemented with their catch of
caribou, small game, fish, and sea mammals. No doubt they also partook
of
sea-bird eggs and berries. They were able to grow some grain (probably
barley), but they must have had to import some as well. They also
imported
luxury goods, such as wine and silk. They could afford the imports
because
they sold wool, hides, and walrus and narwhal tusks. The last two items
especially were in high demand in Europe. The trade continued for
hundreds
of years despite the fact that the voyage was always a dangerous one.
The Norse settlements in Greenland died out eventually, but they thrived
for
at least three centuries and survived almost five. Five hundred years is
nothing to sneeze at when you consider that Jamestown was settled less
than
400 years ago. The exact reason behind the failure is still an open
question, but worsening climatic conditions, with a very cold period in
the
early- to mid-fifteenth century, surely contributed to it. A PBS
documentary
series, Secrets of the Dead, did an informative episode about the
disappearance of the Greenland colony
(www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/html/e2-menu.html).
___________________________
Deneal Schilmeister
St. Louis - Cincinnati
http://deneals.com <http://deneals.com/>
Message 11
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|
Subject: | Re: environment global warming |
Deaneal,
Thanks for the clarification, and I stand corrected....I should know
better than to jump into this with limited knowledge of some subjects :-).
/J
Deneal Schilmeister wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of John Vormbaum
> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 2:01 PM
>
>
>
>
> Steve,
>
>
>
> I'm not saying the globe isn't warming. I'm kinda glad, actually,
>
> because it means we're not in an ice age. Did you know that Greenland
>
> was named Greenland because when it was discovered, it was GREEN? As in,
>
> no ice.
>
>
>
> NOT EXACTLY, John:
>
>
>
> The real story behind the name is given in Erik the Red's Saga, based
> on oral tradition and written down in the early thirteenth century in
> Iceland. After the Icelandic landnm was over, Erik the Red and his
> father Thorvald were forced to leave Norway because one or both of
> them was involved in killings (details are not given). After Thorvald
> died, Erik was involved in yet more killings, for which his punishment
> was three years' vacation--er, I mean banishment from Iceland. (And
> you thought O. J. got off easy.)
>
>
>
> He used the time to explore the rumored lands to the west. When his
> term of banishment expired, he returned to Icleand to invite his
> neighbors and friends to settle the new country with him. He purposely
> chose the pleasant name Grnland ("green land") to attract settlers,
> but the choice wasn't exactly misleading. Some parts of Greenland,
> especially the parts the Norse settled, really are green, as these
> pictures from the tourist board attest
> (www.greenland-guide.dk/outdoor_life_photo.htm). He may have been a
> killer, but at least he wasn't a real-estate scam-artist. He didn't
> have that much to gain by lying anyway, since he didn't charge anyone
> for the land. As in Iceland a century before, the land was free for
> the taking. Natives had lived in the area in the past, but at the time
> of Erik's voyage, only the northern part of Greenland was occupied by
> the Inuit (Eskimos).
>
>
>
> The unoccupied land in southern Greenland really was of much higher
> quality than anything that remained unclaimed in Iceland. The greenery
> that most interested the settlers was the pasturage, which was good
> enough to support their sheep, goats, horses, swine, and cattle. The
> Norsemen lived on the milk and meat from their livestock, supplemented
> with their catch of caribou, small game, fish, and sea mammals. No
> doubt they also partook of sea-bird eggs and berries. They were able
> to grow some grain (probably barley), but they must have had to import
> some as well. They also imported luxury goods, such as wine and silk.
> They could afford the imports because they sold wool, hides, and
> walrus and narwhal tusks. The last two items especially were in high
> demand in Europe. The trade continued for hundreds of years despite
> the fact that the voyage was always a dangerous one.
>
>
>
> The Norse settlements in Greenland died out eventually, but they
> thrived for at least three centuries and survived almost five. Five
> hundred years is nothing to sneeze at when you consider that Jamestown
> was settled less than 400 years ago. The exact reason behind the
> failure is still an open question, but worsening climatic conditions,
> with a very cold period in the early- to mid-fifteenth century, surely
> contributed to it. A PBS documentary series, Secrets of the Dead, did
> an informative episode about the disappearance of the Greenland colony
> (www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/html/e2-menu.html
> <http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/html/e2-menu.html>).
>
>
>
> ___________________________
>
> Deneal Schilmeister
>
> St. Louis - Cincinnati
>
> http://deneals.com <http://deneals.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 12
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|
Subject: | Re: Rush Limbaugh and me |
AMEN,AMEN,AMEN,AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! jb
-----Original Message-----
From: nico css <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 4:29 pm
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me
HI Steve,
=C2-
I beg the indulgence of the listers.
=C2-
You are ok with words, don=99t worry about that. We are not in disagre
ement on many of the issues and we could quite peacefully have a beer. You d
idn=99t resort to insults in your response, which I appreciate, but, t
hen again, you did say you are not a liberal. Your decorum is appreciated. T
hank you for that.
=C2-
Let me preface my response by saying, unchecked power in either direction is
undesirable. But conservatism is not balanced by liberalism, but by account
ability; I assume as liberalism would be. The task of accountability rests w
ith the media, but the media, the watchdogs of society, has become the attac
k dogs and safe-deposit boxes for the liberals, so no real accountability ha
s been practiced for more than 50 years on either ideology.
=C2-
Something you said piqued my interest, and that is =9Cwe are
not liberals in the new sense of the word=9D The word
=9Cliberal=9D in the old sense, means, in short, one who is a
=98free thinker=99. I=99d like to think about myself as one with
a free will that think freely inside and outside the box. So, in the old se
nse of the word, I guess I would be a liberal. In the new sense, however, th
ere is no chance that I would be considered a liberal. It is because the mea
ning of the word has been stripped from the language and replaced with anoth
er meaning that is meant to soothe real free thinkers into believing that th
e same principles apply as before, which is not the case. Instead, the real,
covert meaning is only revealed by intense scrutiny and hard questions, a f
ew of which I ask below.
=C2-
Similar concepts have been taken away from the language by overwhelming medi
a coverage, to mean foreign things, such as the word =98gay=99.
A couple of decades ago it meant to be happy; today it means to be a homosex
ual. I realize and accept that there are people who have different sexual or
ientations than I do and I don=99t care one way or the other, just as
much as I expect others not to care one way or the other that I am straight,
which is another word that has been violently stripped of its meaning. I do
n=99t want to get involved into a gay-straight debate but just to illu
strate the usurpation of benign words making them malignant.
=C2-
Anyone who, today, claims to be gay would imply homosexuality and whether on
e intends to mean happiness would be meaningless. It would be the current un
derstanding of the word that applies. Equally foolish would be to refer to o
neself as a liberal in the old sense, while the label of contemporary libera
lism would apply. So, it is to the liberal in the modern sense that I refer
when I speak about liberals.
=C2-
You asked many good questions. I don=99t want to argue every one of th
em at this point, but I=99d like to ponder on them for a while to be s
ure that I do justice to your questions and respond at another time. In the
mean time, however, let me ask, with the motive of illustrating also my posi
tion, some questions with which I struggle.
=C2-
Why would a modern liberal presidential candidate make utterances that are i
ndistinguishable from that of Karl Marx and the media do not report them as
such?
Why would liberal politicians maintain that taxes have to be increased to ra
ise more money for the treasury, while exactly the opposite proved to raise
more money?
Why would news about successes in the war in Iraq appear deep inside the pri
nt media instead of on the front pages where they belong?
Why would 41 senators sign a petition, based on inaccurate information, to s
ensor a private citizen=99s right to free speech?
Why would a US president allow secret missile technology to be sold to one o
f the country=99s archenemies?
Why would liberals advocate policies that would remove from parents the choi
ce in the education of their children?
Why would a sitting president be called a =9Cliar=9D and having
deceived the people into war after congress voted twice to give him that aut
hority and the UN Security Council voted unanimously for the same thing, whi
le when pres. Clinton engaged Bosnia in a war, the majority leader of the th
en republican-controlled senate said that he is not prepared to criticize a
sitting president in a time of war? (I believe it was Trent Lott, I cannot r
emember but I can look it up for you).
Why would presenting a valid ID to vote be so fiercely opposed by liberals w
hen the ballot box is the very artery of our existence depending on its puri
ty to express the wishes of the citizens of this country?
Why would liberals be so eager to confer amnesty upon millions of people wit
h marginal economic ability unless they are expected to automatically become
candidates supporting liberal policies? You already expressed opposition to
this, but that only clarifies your position, not that of the liberals. You
ought to join me in this fight.
Why would liberals be so eager to allow people who are illegally in the coun
try to vote for representatives unless it is to acquire those votes for thei
r candidates?
Why are liberals eager to pacify Muslims but are quick and readily prepared
to vilify Christians?
=C2-
Steve, I have so many other questions that impugn the patriotism of modern-d
ay liberals, to which one only gets diversionary insults when challenged, th
at one cannot but believe that they are not in politics for the sake of the
country, which you and I love, but for the sake of obtaining and holding on
to absolute power, regardless of the means and the lives it cost.
=C2-
Once the ballot box and the courts have been placed beyond the reach of the
legal voting public by allowing unidentified people to vote and adding convi
cts and illegal immigrants to the voter rolls, do you think that the silent
majority would accept this foreign culture and just go on? That was my quest
ion. I believe not. That is why I believe that Rush Limbaugh=99s crusa
de of more than 20 years, has retained the option of the ballot box for our
children and us as an instrument of peaceful change, without having to rise
up against the authorities to take back that which was fraudulently taken fr
om us. =C2-Rush does not show up for work to make people angry (that is en
tirely your carpenter=99s own demeanor at work), but to confirm what p
eople already knew and believed, longing to hear confirmation of their belie
fs in the public arena of ideas. And, come to think of it, Steve, Rush only
says what he sees and hears and the liberals are armed to take him down. Why
? Does the mirror appear to reflect to the liberals an image that they don
=99t want you and I to know about? It certainly appears to be the case
.
=C2-
I stand by what I said, =9CRush has single-handedly prevented this cou
ntry=99s second civil war.=9D Many followed in his footsteps, or
in his trenches, so to speak, and made a difference. For that we ought to b
e very grateful.
=C2-
Respectfully,
=C2-
Nico
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list
-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve @ Col-East
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me
=C2-
Nico,
=C2-
I wish I was better with words, and that we could still enjoy a beer togethe
r while disagreeing entirely. Before saying anything, I believe your deep fe
elings for the country are entirely genuine, and your motivations honorable.
(Do you ever believe this of the other 'side'?)There is something of great
value there. But the passionate hatred of half of your countrymen is alarmin
g. Do you guys honestly believe all that crap about liberals being out to ta
ke down your country? That they hate freedom? That they want the terrorists
to win? There's no shortage of you guys telling each other that. But have yo
u ever talked to a 'liberal' and aksed what it was they wanted? What they dr
eamed of for their country? Have you ever researched what liberalism even is
? For that matter, have you=C2-(guys) ever checked to see that you really
are conservative? Something might be going wrong if the best and brightest c
onservative thinkers=C2-are chugging up one track, while self-professed 'c
onservatives' are speeding the train somewhere else entirely. When George Wi
ll, Buckley and Buchanon are turning around to see where the rest of the tra
in has gone, there might be a problem with modern conservatism. It's looking
a lot more like fascism. How many freedoms were lost under liberals? I am n
ot going to live a life in fear of terrorist bogeymen. I am not going to cha
nge radically my notions of what passes for freedom. This idea that this is
World War Three is ridiculus. We withstood a civil war, two real world wars,
and the Soviet empire, without radically changing our society.
=C2-
My wife and I built our house with a local carpenter, after I cleared our la
nd. He's a good guy and we liked him a lot, and the feeling was mutual. We w
orked together through rain and snow and sub-zero temperatures building our
house. He would arrive at our site in a cheerful mood. Each morning after li
stening to his favorite morning broadcaster, he became angrier and angrier,
cursing liberals and everything they stood for. The hatred and vitriol comin
g from the radio was alarming, and I wondered both how so many could believe
what they were hearing as fact; and why people wished to listen to somethin
g that made them so angry day after day. While we are not liberals in the ne
w sense of the word, we disagreed with an awful lot of what we heard. And of
course if you disagree you are against freedom and for the terrorists, and
for those that wish to bring our country down. It was very awkward.
=C2-
Citizens must=C2-watch carefully when leaders set up bogeymen and perpetua
l war, and act in the name of protecting freedom while proclaiming that thos
e that disagree are the enemy. I've met a lot of people too,=C2-who profes
s deeply held religious beliefs of love and compassion, but act essentially
in their own self interest.
=C2-
(P.S. I'm not a liberal, I'm not a conservative, and I was not raised a Chri
stian. I believe that much of what the radical left believes is as goofy as
the radical right. Good old fashioned conservatives and liberals were excell
ent when kept in balance. But some folks nowadays are taking the ball and ru
nning in completely wacky directions. That there should be unlimited and unr
egulated immigration is just plain stupid. That we should even be debating t
orture is apalling.)
=C2-
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 1:02 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me
=C2-
Folks, this list is quite unique as it has content that are almost always of
profound interest to other members, oftentimes not about Commanders but alw
ays about the group=99s interests. It=99s more like a fire-side
chat than a technical list. And when people with common interests and passio
ns sit together and talk, many a profound thing is exchanged. We talk about
Commanders (first and foremost) but also about aviation in general, aircraft
systems, engines, navaids, others=99 experiences, life loves, others
who had an unequal number of take-offs and landings, politics, morals, and s
ometimes even religion. Those who are offended leave and they even leave wit
h decorum. Those who have remained with us over the years have forged an inv
isible (to some) familial bond that is hard to describe, but wholly unnecess
ary to define. Not everyone agrees with what is said but an unspoken rule of
respect prevails without sowing discord or insult. It=99s indeed uniq
ue, enjoyable, and a privilege.
Everyone who has been on this list for a while knows that I, like so many ot
hers, am a patriot of this country in the extreme and not ashamed to proclai
m that whenever I have a chance. But what does that mean? The best I can con
vey that to you, my family, is with a conversation I had with Rush Limbaugh
last Monday. I didn=99t get to say everything I wanted, which is quite
understandable considering the time issues with that medium, but that Rush
gave me more than 6 minutes was in itself quite an achievement.
In this time of war, which I believe was perfectly justified and necessary,
assistance to our troops is of paramount importance, calling all of us to fi
nd some manner in which we can express our gratitude. I chose the manner of
my support as I described it to Rush. Some of you might be interested in it.
If you believe it=99s appropriate, please pass this on. We have alrea
dy cut our first check for MCLEF and hope to do it again at the end of Novem
ber.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM
Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Nico
=C2-
PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really exist. We
ll, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list
-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming
=C2-
Ah! At last. Something from the list.
=C2-
I posted some messages this week and for some reason they just disappeared i
nto never land. I=99ll see if this one is posted.
=C2-
Nico
=C2-
=C2-
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list
-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
=C2-
AMEN!!=C2- I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites tha
t measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is simply
no proof of "global warning".=C2- In fact, in a related piece , the recor
ded mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!!=C2- That m
ay be why we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global cl
imate change??=C2-=C2-=C2- JB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john@vormbaum.com>
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming
-
=C2-
Nico,=C2-
=C2-
I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is a hu
ge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs. Methane a
nd a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the stupidity
of the politicians.=C2-
=C2-
I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the US, tr
y to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I see i
t, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not so ma
ny elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of flying,
and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident.=C2-
=C2-
I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's past.
As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science classes
in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a str
etch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The most we ca
n do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200 million ye
ars after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing that
we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species.=C2-
=C2-
Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to clean it
self. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean and unp
olluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye, geologicall
y. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.=C2-
=C2-
A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing bat
tles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't log the H
eadwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I live at t
he foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF earthquake, t
hey clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuil
d San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left as far as the eye can
see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window and see lush, green,
forested mountains.=C2-
=C2-
I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me driv
ing a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be called t
he "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the environment. I bet the
carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car.=C2-
=C2-
/ramble mode off/=C2-
=C2-
/John=C2-
=C2-
Bill Bow wrote:=C2-
>=C2-
> Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico. <G>=C2-
>=C2-
> bilbo=C2-
>=C2-
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=C2-
>=C2-
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commande
r-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *nico css=C2-
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM=C2-
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com=C2-
> *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming=C2-
>=C2-
> Steve,=C2-
>=C2-
> I don=99t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators
of > the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean
> up where we picnic and don=99t waste water, prefer a cleaner running
> engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believ
e that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are do
ne or show care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good
and responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the glo
be=99s temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=C3
=AFve and believe in Santa Claus, I=99ll join you if it > means being
responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe > that we can, are
able, to affect climate change, is just not rational.=C2-
>=C2-
> Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 > eruption
, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere > reaching up to 20,0
00=99 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The August 18
83 eruptions caused 100=99 tsunamis and boats rocked > in South Africa
, thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions cou
ld be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius, near
ly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and toxi
c gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the s
tratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year global
acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after the
explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amoun
t of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square > ki
lometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and > increasing t
he landmass of several islands in the area.=C2-
>=C2-
> In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. > The
planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the > temperatures, no
rmalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call a pri
stine environment.=C2-
>=C2-
> Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I > se
e the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched > into the
atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties, the Mt.
St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions of ton
s of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine fissures
spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires =93 and th
e planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then it
=99s hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a
hoax to blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean,
where have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or
, the Kyoto treaty?=C2-
>=C2-
> I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for > respo
nsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, > my friend
. You wouldn=99t part with five bucks if someone proposed this > as a
business deal to you. You=99d probably call the cops.=C2-
>=C2-
> One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2 > d
eg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with > friends
about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in > the morning.
Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is more than 18 d
egrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever in the 10 year
s I=99ve been playing there several times per > week, has the temperat
ure been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 m
iles west and 1,000=99 down to the coast > and the temperature would b
e vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you
=99ve heard of the Santa Ana=99s, I=99m sure) the > entire regio
n=99s temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and > when do the
y measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather
stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years > ago which is the time-
frame some fraudsters use to determine the > danger we=99re in?=C2-
>=C2-
> Nah. I=99d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. T
his > aint mud.=C2-
>=C2-
> Nico=C2-
>=C2-
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=C2-
>=C2-
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commande
r-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Steve @ Col-East=C2-
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM=C2-
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com=C2-
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer=C2-
>=C2-
> I believe in the hoax.=C2-
>=C2-
> I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the > en
vironment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, > manufacturing, tran
sportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000 years o
f stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the industrial age.
The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as billions more people ado
pt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of these gases in the atm
osphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be in dispute.=C2-
>=C2-
> Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I > guess
I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem > sustaina
ble.=C2-
>=C2-
> I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. > But
if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.=C2-
>=C2-
> Green of Peak..... I like that.....=C2-
>=C2-
> Steve=C2-
>=C2-
> ----- Original Message -----=C2-
>=C2-
> *From:* BobsV35B@aol.com <mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com>=C2-
>=C2-
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com=C2-
> <mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>=C2-
>=C2-
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM=C2-
>=C2-
> *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer=C2-
>=C2-
> In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,=C2-
> nico@cybersuperstore.com <mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com> writes:=C2-
>=C2-
> Surely, you don=99t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?=C2-
>=C2-
> Good Evening Nico,=C2-
>=C2-
> What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!=C2-
>=C2-
> Happy Skies,=C2-
>=C2-
> Old Bob=C2-
> AKA=C2-
> Bob Siegfried=C2-
> Ancient Aviator=C2-
> Stearman N3977A=C2-
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22=C2-
> Downers Grove, IL 60516=C2-
> 630 985-8503=C2-
>=C2-
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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