---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/11/07: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:05 AM - Re: Rush Limbaugh and me (JTAddington) 2. 05:29 AM - Re: Rush Limbaugh and me (Steve) 3. 07:36 AM - Re: My conversation with Rush Limbaugh (Victor C. Rupert) 4. 08:39 AM - Re: Rush Limbaugh and me (Steve @ Col-East) 5. 10:44 AM - Post Mortem - Matronics List Pummeled By Spam... (Matt Dralle) 6. 10:53 AM - Re: environment global warming (Steve @ Col-East) 7. 12:03 PM - Re: environment global warming (John Vormbaum) 8. 04:32 PM - Re: Rush Limbaugh and me (nico css) 9. 06:15 PM - Re: environment global warming (Bill Bow) 10. 07:52 PM - Re: environment global warming (Deneal Schilmeister) 11. 09:54 PM - Re: environment global warming (John Vormbaum) 12. 10:23 PM - Re: Rush Limbaugh and me (yourtcfg@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:05:07 AM PST US From: "JTAddington" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me Nico, I personally agree with everything you have said. We are in world war three but it is a war like we have never had to fight before and people just don't understand it. We are like the British were in our revolutionary war, they were used to having people march out and stand face to face and fight and we are used to being able to see who we are fighting. In this war we don't see who our enemy is until they have struck and it may be some one we thought was our friend and have been in this country for a long time. If that is not bad enough like you said we have people that are trying to take over and destroy us from within, liberals. Sorry but I get on my band box when these people start trying to take away my freedoms. I was in the Air Force and when you see that flag go up and down on a military base and it does not make your spine tingle there is something wrong. I love this country and don't want it destroyed. Sorry if I seem to be rambling but I got to bed near midnight and woke up at three. Jim Addington _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:03 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me Folks, this list is quite unique as it has content that are almost always of profound interest to other members, oftentimes not about Commanders but always about the group=92s interests. It=92s more like a fire-side chat than a technical list. And when people with common interests and passions sit together and talk, many a profound thing is exchanged. We talk about Commanders (first and foremost) but also about aviation in general, aircraft systems, engines, navaids, others=92 experiences, life loves, others who had an unequal number of take-offs and landings, politics, morals, and sometimes even religion. Those who are offended leave and they even leave with decorum. Those who have remained with us over the years have forged an invisible (to some) familial bond that is hard to describe, but wholly unnecessary to define. Not everyone agrees with what is said but an unspoken rule of respect prevails without sowing discord or insult. It=92s indeed unique, enjoyable, and a privilege. Everyone who has been on this list for a while knows that I, like so many others, am a patriot of this country in the extreme and not ashamed to proclaim that whenever I have a chance. But what does that mean? The best I can convey that to you, my family, is with a conversation I had with Rush Limbaugh last Monday. I didn=92t get to say everything I wanted, which is quite understandable considering the time issues with that medium, but that Rush gave me more than 6 minutes was in itself quite an achievement. In this time of war, which I believe was perfectly justified and necessary, assistance to our troops is of paramount importance, calling all of us to find some manner in which we can express our gratitude. I chose the manner of my support as I described it to Rush. Some of you might be interested in it. If you believe it=92s appropriate, please pass this on. We have already cut our first check for MCLEF and hope to do it again at the end of November. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM Let me know what you think. Thanks Nico PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really exist. Well, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag=85 _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:49 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming Ah! At last. Something from the list. I posted some messages this week and for some reason they just disappeared into never land. I=92ll see if this one is posted. Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:52 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites that measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is simply no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the recorded mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!! That may be why we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global climate change?? JB -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming Nico, I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is a huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs. Methane and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the stupidity of the politicians. I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the US, try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I see it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not so many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of flying, and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident. I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science classes in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The most we can do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200 million years after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species. Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to clean itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean and unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye, geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then. A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't log the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I live at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left as far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window and see lush, green, forested mountains. I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car. /ramble mode off/ /John Bill Bow wrote: > > Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico. > > bilbo > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] *On Behalf Of *nico css > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming > > Steve, > > I don=92t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of > the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean > up where we picnic and don=92t waste water, prefer a cleaner running > engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or show care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good and responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the globe=92s temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=EFve and believe in Santa Claus, I=92ll join you if it > means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just not rational. > > Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 > eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere > reaching up to 20,000=92 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100=92 tsunamis and boats rocked > in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions could be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and toxic gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square > kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and > increasing the landmass of several islands in the area. > > In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. > The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the > temperatures, normalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call a pristine environment. > > Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I > see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched > into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions of tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires ' and the planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then it=92s hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a hoax to blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty? > > I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for > responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, > my friend. You wouldn=92t part with five bucks if someone proposed this > as a business deal to you. You=92d probably call the cops. > > One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2 > deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with > friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in > the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is more than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever in the 10 years I=92ve been playing there several times per > week, has the temperature been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and 1,000=92 down to the coast > and the temperature would be vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you=92ve heard of the Santa Ana=92s, I=92m sure) the > entire region=92s temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and > when do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the > danger we=92re in? > > Nah. I=92d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. This > aint mud. > > Nico > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] *On Behalf Of > *Steve @ Col-East > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer > > I believe in the hoax. > > I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the > environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, > manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the industrial age. The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as billions more people adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of these gases in the atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be in dispute. > > Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I > guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem > sustainable. > > I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. > But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try. > > Green of Peak..... I like that..... > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* BobsV35B@aol.com > > > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM > > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer > > In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, > nico@cybersuperstore.com > writes: > > Surely, you don=92t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob? > > Good Evening Nico, > > What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn! > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > AKA > Bob Siegfried > Ancient Aviator > Stearman N3977A > Brookeridge Air Park LL22 > Downers Grove, IL 60516 > 630 985-8503 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > See what's > > * * > > * * > > *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ chref ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matroni cs.co m/Navigator?Commander-List* > > *href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * * > * * > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > * * > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > *http://forums.matronics.com* > * http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > * * > * > > > * > > > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________ > =========== nk>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List =========== /forums.matronics.com ===========
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail ! http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:47 AM PST US From: "Steve" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me Nico, Well said and appropriate for this Veterans Day. Your discussion with Rush is indeed insightful and informative for those who have not thought this through. Apathy is the =93disease=94 that will get us in the end unless we fight it. Activism is the tool of the liberal minority and they have proven it works. Our conservative =93behinds=94 must get up and go to work speaking, writing, and participating in the fight to keep our freedoms intact. Just take a look at the freedoms of flight that are slowly being eroded by our F=92nAA and the big commercial airlines. They will not give up as long as we allow them to succeed!!! Whatever happened to =93The majority rules=94? One outspoken liberal can take away our freedoms one board at a time if we the conservative majority continue to do nothing and only wish them away. I only hope that in my lifetime I won=92t be required to run my passengers through a gauntlet of searches and documentation that are constantly being proposed as well as being required to pay a fee each time I leave the ground. Well, enough. I=92m going flying! Regards, Steve Gilson _____ From: nico css [mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com] Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:03 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me Folks, this list is quite unique as it has content that are almost always of profound interest to other members, oftentimes not about Commanders but always about the group=92s interests. It=92s more like a fire-side chat than a technical list. And when people with common interests and passions sit together and talk, many a profound thing is exchanged. We talk about Commanders (first and foremost) but also about aviation in general, aircraft systems, engines, navaids, others=92 experiences, life loves, others who had an unequal number of take-offs and landings, politics, morals, and sometimes even religion. Those who are offended leave and they even leave with decorum. Those who have remained with us over the years have forged an invisible (to some) familial bond that is hard to describe, but wholly unnecessary to define. Not everyone agrees with what is said but an unspoken rule of respect prevails without sowing discord or insult. It=92s indeed unique, enjoyable, and a privilege. Everyone who has been on this list for a while knows that I, like so many others, am a patriot of this country in the extreme and not ashamed to proclaim that whenever I have a chance. But what does that mean? The best I can convey that to you, my family, is with a conversation I had with Rush Limbaugh last Monday. I didn=92t get to say everything I wanted, which is quite understandable considering the time issues with that medium, but that Rush gave me more than 6 minutes was in itself quite an achievement. In this time of war, which I believe was perfectly justified and necessary, assistance to our troops is of paramount importance, calling all of us to find some manner in which we can express our gratitude. I chose the manner of my support as I described it to Rush. Some of you might be interested in it. If you believe it=92s appropriate, please pass this on. We have already cut our first check for MCLEF and hope to do it again at the end of November. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM Let me know what you think. Thanks Nico PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really exist. Well, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag=85 _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:49 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming Ah! At last. Something from the list. I posted some messages this week and for some reason they just disappeared into never land. I=92ll see if this one is posted. Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:52 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites that measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is simply no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the recorded mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!! That may be why we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global climate change?? JB -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming Nico, I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is a huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs. Methane and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the stupidity of the politicians. I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the US, try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I see it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not so many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of flying, and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident. I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science classes in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The most we can do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200 million years after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species. Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to clean itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean and unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye, geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then. A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't log the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I live at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left as far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window and see lush, green, forested mountains. I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car. /ramble mode off/ /John Bill Bow wrote: > > Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico. > > bilbo > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] *On Behalf Of *nico css > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming > > Steve, > > I don=92t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of > the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean > up where we picnic and don=92t waste water, prefer a cleaner running > engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or show care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good and responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the globe=92s temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=EFve and believe in Santa Claus, I=92ll join you if it > means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just not rational. > > Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 > eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere > reaching up to 20,000=92 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100=92 tsunamis and boats rocked > in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions could be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and toxic gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square > kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and > increasing the landmass of several islands in the area. > > In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. > The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the > temperatures, normalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call a pristine environment. > > Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I > see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched > into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions of tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires ' and the planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then it=92s hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a hoax to blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty? > > I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for > responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, > my friend. You wouldn=92t part with five bucks if someone proposed this > as a business deal to you. You=92d probably call the cops. > > One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2 > deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with > friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in > the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is more than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever in the 10 years I=92ve been playing there several times per > week, has the temperature been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and 1,000=92 down to the coast > and the temperature would be vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you=92ve heard of the Santa Ana=92s, I=92m sure) the > entire region=92s temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and > when do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the > danger we=92re in? > > Nah. I=92d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. This > aint mud. > > Nico > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] *On Behalf Of > *Steve @ Col-East > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer > > I believe in the hoax. > > I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the > environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, > manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the industrial age. The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as billions more people adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of these gases in the atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be in dispute. > > Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I > guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem > sustainable. > > I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. > But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try. > > Green of Peak..... I like that..... > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* BobsV35B@aol.com > > > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM > > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer > > In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, > nico@cybersuperstore.com > writes: > > Surely, you don=92t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob? > > Good Evening Nico, > > What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn! > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > AKA > Bob Siegfried > Ancient Aviator > Stearman N3977A > Brookeridge Air Park LL22 > Downers Grove, IL 60516 > 630 985-8503 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > See what's > > * * > > * * > > *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ chref ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matroni cs.co m/Navigator?Commander-List* > > *href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * * > * * > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > * * > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > *http://forums.matronics.com* > * http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > * * > * > > > * > > > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________ > =========== nk>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List =========== /forums.matronics.com ===========
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail ! http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:20 AM PST US From: "Victor C. Rupert" Subject: Re: Commander-List: My conversation with Rush Limbaugh Nico, Way to go!!! I had the thrill of hearing you live that day and almost stood up in the car on the way to the airport! I didn't piece together that it was you until now. Bravo Sir! Victor ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 11:19 AM Subject: Commander-List: My conversation with Rush Limbaugh Folks, I had an interesting conversation with Rush last Monday. Some of you might be interested in it. If you believe it's appropriate, please pass this on. We have already cut our first check for MCLEF and hope to do it again at the end of November. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM Let me know what you think. If you Google "rush Limbaugh civil war" it comes up second or third and you will be able to hook up to his site with the transcript. Thanks Nico PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really exist. Well, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:53 AM PST US From: "Steve @ Col-East" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me Nico, I wish I was better with words, and that we could still enjoy a beer together while disagreeing entirely. Before saying anything, I believe your deep feelings for the country are entirely genuine, and your motivations honorable. (Do you ever believe this of the other 'side'?)There is something of great value there. But the passionate hatred of half of your countrymen is alarming. Do you guys honestly believe all that crap about liberals being out to take down your country? That they hate freedom? That they want the terrorists to win? There's no shortage of you guys telling each other that. But have you ever talked to a 'liberal' and aksed what it was they wanted? What they dreamed of for their country? Have you ever researched what liberalism even is? For that matter, have you (guys) ever checked to see that you really are conservative? Something might be going wrong if the best and brightest conservative thinkers are chugging up one track, while self-professed 'conservatives' are speeding the train somewhere else entirely. When George Will, Buckley and Buchanon are turning around to see where the rest of the train has gone, there might be a problem with modern conservatism. It's looking a lot more like fascism. How many freedoms were lost under liberals? I am not going to live a life in fear of terrorist bogeymen. I am not going to change radically my notions of what passes for freedom. This idea that this is World War Three is ridiculus. We withstood a civil war, two real world wars, and the Soviet empire, without radically changing our society. My wife and I built our house with a local carpenter, after I cleared our land. He's a good guy and we liked him a lot, and the feeling was mutual. We worked together through rain and snow and sub-zero temperatures building our house. He would arrive at our site in a cheerful mood. Each morning after listening to his favorite morning broadcaster, he became angrier and angrier, cursing liberals and everything they stood for. The hatred and vitriol coming from the radio was alarming, and I wondered both how so many could believe what they were hearing as fact; and why people wished to listen to something that made them so angry day after day. While we are not liberals in the new sense of the word, we disagreed with an awful lot of what we heard. And of course if you disagree you are against freedom and for the terrorists, and for those that wish to bring our country down. It was very awkward. Citizens must watch carefully when leaders set up bogeymen and perpetual war, and act in the name of protecting freedom while proclaiming that those that disagree are the enemy. I've met a lot of people too, who profess deeply held religious beliefs of love and compassion, but act essentially in their own self interest. (P.S. I'm not a liberal, I'm not a conservative, and I was not raised a Christian. I believe that much of what the radical left believes is as goofy as the radical right. Good old fashioned conservatives and liberals were excellent when kept in balance. But some folks nowadays are taking the ball and running in completely wacky directions. That there should be unlimited and unregulated immigration is just plain stupid. That we should even be debating torture is apalling.) Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 1:02 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me Folks, this list is quite unique as it has content that are almost always of profound interest to other members, oftentimes not about Commanders but always about the group's interests. It's more like a fire-side chat than a technical list. And when people with common interests and passions sit together and talk, many a profound thing is exchanged. We talk about Commanders (first and foremost) but also about aviation in general, aircraft systems, engines, navaids, others' experiences, life loves, others who had an unequal number of take-offs and landings, politics, morals, and sometimes even religion. Those who are offended leave and they even leave with decorum. Those who have remained with us over the years have forged an invisible (to some) familial bond that is hard to describe, but wholly unnecessary to define. Not everyone agrees with what is said but an unspoken rule of respect prevails without sowing discord or insult. It's indeed unique, enjoyable, and a privilege. Everyone who has been on this list for a while knows that I, like so many others, am a patriot of this country in the extreme and not ashamed to proclaim that whenever I have a chance. But what does that mean? The best I can convey that to you, my family, is with a conversation I had with Rush Limbaugh last Monday. I didn't get to say everything I wanted, which is quite understandable considering the time issues with that medium, but that Rush gave me more than 6 minutes was in itself quite an achievement. In this time of war, which I believe was perfectly justified and necessary, assistance to our troops is of paramount importance, calling all of us to find some manner in which we can express our gratitude. I chose the manner of my support as I described it to Rush. Some of you might be interested in it. If you believe it's appropriate, please pass this on. We have already cut our first check for MCLEF and hope to do it again at the end of November. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM Let me know what you think. Thanks Nico PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really exist. Well, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:49 PM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming Ah! At last. Something from the list. I posted some messages this week and for some reason they just disappeared into never land. I'll see if this one is posted. Nico ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:52 PM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites that measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is simply no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the recorded mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!! That may be why we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global climate change?? JB -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming Nico, I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is a huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs. Methane and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the stupidity of the politicians. I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the US, try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I see it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not so many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of flying, and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident. I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science classes in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The most we can do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200 million years after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species. Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to clean itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean and unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye, geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then. A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't log the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I live at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left as far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window and see lush, green, forested mountains. I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car. /ramble mode off/ /John Bill Bow wrote: > > Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico. > > bilbo > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *nico css > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming > > Steve, > > I don't disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of > the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean > up where we picnic and don't waste water, prefer a cleaner running > engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or show care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good and responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the globe's temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=EFve and believe in Santa Claus, I'll join you if it > means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just not rational. > > Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 > eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere > reaching up to 20,000' with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100' tsunamis and boats rocked > in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions could be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and toxic gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square > kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and > increasing the landmass of several islands in the area. > > In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. > The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the > temperatures, normalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call a pristine environment. > > Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I > see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched > into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions of tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires - and the planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then it's hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a hoax to blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty? > > I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for > responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, > my friend. You wouldn't part with five bucks if someone proposed this > as a business deal to you. You'd probably call the cops. > > One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2 > deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with > friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in > the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is more than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever in the 10 years I've been playing there several times per > week, has the temperature been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and 1,000' down to the coast > and the temperature would be vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you've heard of the Santa Ana's, I'm sure) the > entire region's temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and > when do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the > danger we're in? > > Nah. I'd stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. This > aint mud. > > Nico > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Steve @ Col-East > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer > > I believe in the hoax. > > I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the > environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, > manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the industrial age. The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as billions more people adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of these gases in the atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be in dispute. > > Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I > guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem > sustainable. > > I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. > But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try. > > Green of Peak..... I like that..... > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* BobsV35B@aol.com > > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM > > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer > > In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, > nico@cybersuperstore.com writes: > > Surely, you don't buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob? > > Good Evening Nico, > > What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn! > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > AKA > Bob Siegfried > Ancient Aviator > Stearman N3977A > Brookeridge Air Park LL22 > Downers Grove, IL 60516 > 630 985-8503 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > See what's > > * * > > * * > > *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > > *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * * > * * > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > * * > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > *http://forums.matronics.com* > * http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > * * > * > > > * > > > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________ > =========== nk>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List =========== /forums.matronics.com ===========
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics. com http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?C ommander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:44:17 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Commander-List: Post Mortem - Matronics List Pummeled By Spam... Dear Listers, Over a 3-day period, Thursday 11/8 though Saturday 11/10, the Matronics Lists were pummeled with over 450,000 spam emails causing posting delays and a few duplicate messages. Yeah, I really said nearly half a million spams! The good news is that I don't believe a single one of them actually made it to the Lists thanks to the aggressive List filtering code and the Barracuda spam filter. The bad news was that it caused quite a back log of email messages starting Friday and continuing until late Saturday when I noticed that delivery seemed a bit sluggish. By about 11pm on Saturday night, I had managed to get the backlog cleared out of the spam filter by temporarily adjusting some of the filtering. A check of the queues this morning, and everything looks like its working great and there are no incoming filtering delays and spam levels appear to be back to "normal". There were a number of people asking what was going on, so I thought that I'd send out a follow up post mortem on the event... November is the annual List Fund Raiser. Your contribution directly enables me to buy systems like the Barracuda spam filter that keep the List free of that garbage. Please make a contribution to support your Lists! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:53:38 AM PST US From: "Steve @ Col-East" Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming Oh for Pete's sake. You can argue the causes of 'global warming', and whether we have any responsibility, but to argue it isn't happening? I did a search for NASA global warming report, and the only place the earth isn't warming is on Fox News. The NASA chief himself was quoted as saying, "I have no doubt that ... a trend of global warming exists. I am not sure that it is fair to say that it is a problem we must wrestle with." He went on to speculate whether or not we should do anything about it. Griffin is of course a Bush appointee. The chief NASA climatologist is sounding all the alarms he can about the warming trend and the fact that the administration is doing all they can to suppress the data, and restrict the interaction of government scientists with the public. Glaciers are dissappearing of mountains all over the world. For the first time in history the Northwest Passage is open to navigation. 19 of the twentiest warmest years on record have been since 1980. Back to stacking wood...... ----- Original Message ----- From: yourtcfg@aol.com To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 12:51 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites that measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is simply no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the recorded mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!! That may be why we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global climate change?? JB -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming Nico, I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is a huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs. Methane and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the stupidity of the politicians. I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the US, try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I see it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not so many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of flying, and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident. I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science classes in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The most we can do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200 million years after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species. Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to clean itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean and unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye, geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then. A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't log the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I live at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left as far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window and see lush, green, forested mountains. I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car. /ramble mode off/ /John Bill Bow wrote: > > Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico. > > bilbo > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *nico css > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming > > Steve, > > I don=99t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of > the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean > up where we picnic and don=99t waste water, prefer a cleaner running > engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or show care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good and responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the globe=99s temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=C3=AFve and believe in Santa Claus, I=99ll join you if it > means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just not rational. > > Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 > eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere > reaching up to 20,000=99 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100=99 tsunamis and boats rocked > in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions could be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and toxic gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square > kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and > increasing the landmass of several islands in the area. > > In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. > The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the > temperatures, normalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call a pristine environment. > > Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I > see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched > into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions of tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires =93 and the planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then it=99s hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a hoax to blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty? > > I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for > responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, > my friend. You wouldn=99t part with five bucks if someone proposed this > as a business deal to you. You=99d probably call the cops. > > One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2 > deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with > friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in > the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is more than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever in the 10 years I=99ve been playing there several times per > week, has the temperature been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and 1,000=99 down to the coast > and the temperature would be vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you=99ve heard of the Santa Ana=99s, I=99m sure) the > entire region=99s temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and > when do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the > danger we=99re in? > > Nah. I=99d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. This > aint mud. > > Nico > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Steve @ Col-East > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer > > I believe in the hoax. > > I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the > environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, > manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the industrial age. The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as billions more people adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of these gases in the atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be in dispute. > > Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I > guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem > sustainable. > > I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. > But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try. > > Green of Peak..... I like that..... > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* BobsV35B@aol.com > > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM > > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer > > In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, > nico@cybersuperstore.com writes: > > Surely, you don=99t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob? > > Good Evening Nico, > > What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn! > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > AKA > Bob Siegfried > Ancient Aviator > Stearman N3977A > Brookeridge Air Park LL22 > Downers Grove, IL 60516 > 630 985-8503 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > See what's > > * * > > * * > > *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > > *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * * > * * > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > * * > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > *http://forums.matronics.com* > * http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > * * > * > > > * > > > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________ > =========== nk>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List =========== /forums.matronics.com =========== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:41 PM PST US From: John Vormbaum Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming Steve, I'm not saying the globe isn't warming. I'm kinda glad, actually, because it means we're not in an ice age. Did you know that Greenland was named Greenland because when it was discovered, it was GREEN? As in, no ice. Climate ebbs & flows. Again, I try to leave as few footprints as possible....but even the NASA chief climatologist isn't sold on the notion that we need to jump on the "fix it!" bandwagon. Of course, solid science rarely intrudes on the debate. Everyone is quick to point out, "he's a BUSH APPOINTEE! He must be EVIL! Forget the 9 years of college & multiple degrees!" So if he was a Gore appointee, he'd be screaming bloody murder, based on the same report? Science doesn't depend on "consensus" or "debate". Science is about building a PROVABLE hypothesis. Nobody has done that yet. Why? Climate modeling is not bias-proof science. Modeling the future is entirely dependent on subjective experiences from today and yesterday. As far as the media, they tend to focus ONLY on the negative, and that bothers me. Yes, temperatures are warming......what about the GOOD news that goes with that? Reforestation will happen more quickly. Areas previously unsuitable for agriculture will be able to support farming. Rainforests may actually expand. Check the hurricane reports for the last 75 years? There are more storms, they apparently are more severe, but it's all part of the normal cycle. And from '75 - 95, they were all extremely tame.....perhaps there were no fossil fuels being burned for those 2 decades: http://www.grantchronicles.com/astro129.htm I'm not ripping your opinion. I'm just not picking sides until I see a demonstrated provable hypothesis. And even if I'm on the wrong side, I still think that all we can do is screw things up for us, and when we're gone, the world will continue on its merry way, none the worse for the wear. /J Steve @ Col-East wrote: > Oh for Pete's sake. You can argue the causes of 'global warming', and > whether we have any responsibility, but to argue it isn't happening? I > did a search for NASA global warming report, and the only place the > earth isn't warming is on Fox News. The NASA chief himself was quoted > as saying, "I have no doubt that ... a trend of global warming exists. > I am not sure that it is fair to say that it is a problem we must > wrestle with." He went on to speculate whether or not we should do > anything about it. Griffin is of course a Bush appointee. > > The chief NASA climatologist is sounding all the alarms he can about > the warming trend and the fact that the administration is doing all > they can to suppress the data, and restrict the interaction of > government scientists with the public. > > Glaciers are dissappearing of mountains all over the world. For the > first time in history the Northwest Passage is open to navigation. 19 > of the twentiest warmest years on record have been since 1980. > > Back to stacking wood...... > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* yourtcfg@aol.com > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > > *Sent:* Saturday, November 10, 2007 12:51 AM > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: environment global warming > > AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the > satellites that measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press > release that the is simply no proof of "global warning". In fact, > in a related piece , the recorded mid level temps have fallen .036 > deg in the last 20 years!! That may be why we hear less about > "global warming" and more the phrase "Global_ climate change?? _ JB > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Vormbaum > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm > Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming > > > > > Nico, > > I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset > theme is a huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on > JUST CO2 vs. Methane and a collection of other greenhouse gases is > one indicator of the stupidity of the politicians. > > I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in > the US, try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick > up trash when I see it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt > whales or elephants (OK, not so many elephants here), live as > "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of flying, and generally try > to be a zero-environmental-impact resident. > > I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the > planet's past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative) > environmental science classes in college, one thing that becomes > clear pretty quickly is that it is a stretch, and a conceit, to > think that we can destroy the planet. The most we can do is make > it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200 million years > after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing > that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species. > > Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability > to clean itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would > be 100% clean and unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the > merest blink of an eye, geologically. Hopefully there would still > be whales left then. > > A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been > ongoing battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that > we shouldn't log the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging > argument is way overblown. I live at the foot of the Santa Cruz > Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF earthquake, they clearcut the > ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuild San > Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left as far as the eye > can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window and see > lush, green, forested mountains. > > I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't > catch me driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, > they should be called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the > savior of the environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius > manufacture is 3x a normal car. > > /ramble mode off/ > > /John > > Bill Bow wrote: > > > > Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico. > > > > bilbo > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > > > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > ] *On Behalf Of > *nico css > > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM > > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > > > *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming > > > > Steve, > > > > I dont disagree with the notion that we ought to be > conservators of > the environment. I pick up behind me when I > accidentally litter, clean > up where we picnic and dont waste > water, prefer a cleaner running > engine than one that spews dirt > into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that no reasonable > person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or show > care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good > and responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are > influencing the globes temperature is just not rational. If > you > claim to be nave and believe in Santa Claus, Ill join you if it > > means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to > believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just > not rational. > > > > Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 > > eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere > > reaching up to 20,000 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > > away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100 tsunamis and boats > rocked > in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them. > The sound of > the explosions could be heard in Australia more > than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away. > It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and toxic gasses, > such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the > stratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a > five-year global acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon > was blue for years after the explosion and > artists painted red > sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash > that fell back > to the earth covered about one million square > kilometers > drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and > increasing > the landmass of several islands in the area. > > > > In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to > normal. > The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, > normalized the > temperatures, normalized the weather, and today > that area is what some > tourists call a pristine environment. > > > > Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but > if I > see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein > launched > into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on > fire in the > nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other > natural events > spewing millions of tons of toxic material into > the air; an unknown > amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic > magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires and the planet > deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then its > hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but > a hoax to blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of > money. I mean, where have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the > carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty? > > > > I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist > for > responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a > swindle, > my friend. You wouldnt part with five bucks if someone > proposed this > as a business deal to you. Youd probably call the > cops. > > > > One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by > 1 or 2 > deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay > tennis with > friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to > play at 7 AM in > the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the > temperature difference > is more than 18 degrees between the house > and the tennis courts. > Never, ever in the 10 years Ive been > playing there several times per > week, has the temperature been > the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 > miles west and 1,000 down to the coast > and the temperature > would be vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind > blows (youve heard of the Santa Anas, Im sure) the > entire > regions temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and > when > do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? > > Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 > years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to > determine the > danger were in? > > > > Nah. Id stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. > This > aint mud. > > > > Nico > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > > > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > ] *On Behalf Of > > *Steve @ Col-East > > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM > > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > > > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer > > > > I believe in the hoax. > > > > I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be > affecting the > environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. > Agriculture, > manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling, > recreation all > contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels, > begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the industrial age. The rate > of change is increasing > dramatically as billions more people > adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of these > gases in the atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot > seriously be in dispute. > > > > Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. > I > guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this > doesn't seem > sustainable. > > > > I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big > blocks. > But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try. > > > > Green of Peak..... I like that..... > > > > Steve > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > *From:* BobsV35B@aol.com > > > > > > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM > > > > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer > > > > In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, > > nico@cybersuperstore.com > > writes: > > > > Surely, you dont buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob? > > > > Good Evening Nico, > > > > What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn! > > > > Happy Skies, > > > > Old Bob > > AKA > > Bob Siegfried > > Ancient Aviator > > Stearman N3977A > > Brookeridge Air Park LL22 > > Downers Grove, IL 60516 > > 630 985-8503 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > See what's > > > > * * > > > > * * > > > > > *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > > > > *href="http://forums.matronics.com > ">http://forums.matronics.com* > > > > > * * > > > > * * > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * > > > > > > * > > > > > > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________ > > > > =========== > nk>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =========== > arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > =========== > /forums.matronics.com > =========== > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL > Mail > ! > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > * > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:13 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me HI Steve, I beg the indulgence of the listers. You are ok with words, don=92t worry about that. We are not in disagreement on many of the issues and we could quite peacefully have a beer. You didn=92t resort to insults in your response, which I appreciate, but, then again, you did say you are not a liberal. Your decorum is appreciated. Thank you for that. Let me preface my response by saying, unchecked power in either direction is undesirable. But conservatism is not balanced by liberalism, but by accountability; I assume as liberalism would be. The task of accountability rests with the media, but the media, the watchdogs of society, has become the attack dogs and safe-deposit boxes for the liberals, so no real accountability has been practiced for more than 50 years on either ideology. Something you said piqued my interest, and that is =93=85we are not liberals in the new sense of the word=85=94 The word =93liberal=94 in the old sense, means, in short, one who is a =91free thinker=92. I=92d like to think about myself as one with a free will that think freely inside and outside the box. So, in the old sense of the word, I guess I would be a liberal. In the new sense, however, there is no chance that I would be considered a liberal. It is because the meaning of the word has been stripped from the language and replaced with another meaning that is meant to soothe real free thinkers into believing that the same principles apply as before, which is not the case. Instead, the real, covert meaning is only revealed by intense scrutiny and hard questions, a few of which I ask below. Similar concepts have been taken away from the language by overwhelming media coverage, to mean foreign things, such as the word =91gay=92. A couple of decades ago it meant to be happy; today it means to be a homosexual. I realize and accept that there are people who have different sexual orientations than I do and I don=92t care one way or the other, just as much as I expect others not to care one way or the other that I am straight, which is another word that has been violently stripped of its meaning. I don=92t want to get involved into a gay-straight debate but just to illustrate the usurpation of benign words making them malignant. Anyone who, today, claims to be gay would imply homosexuality and whether one intends to mean happiness would be meaningless. It would be the current understanding of the word that applies. Equally foolish would be to refer to oneself as a liberal in the old sense, while the label of contemporary liberalism would apply. So, it is to the liberal in the modern sense that I refer when I speak about liberals. You asked many good questions. I don=92t want to argue every one of them at this point, but I=92d like to ponder on them for a while to be sure that I do justice to your questions and respond at another time. In the mean time, however, let me ask, with the motive of illustrating also my position, some questions with which I struggle. Why would a modern liberal presidential candidate make utterances that are indistinguishable from that of Karl Marx and the media do not report them as such? Why would liberal politicians maintain that taxes have to be increased to raise more money for the treasury, while exactly the opposite proved to raise more money? Why would news about successes in the war in Iraq appear deep inside the print media instead of on the front pages where they belong? Why would 41 senators sign a petition, based on inaccurate information, to sensor a private citizen=92s right to free speech? Why would a US president allow secret missile technology to be sold to one of the country=92s archenemies? Why would liberals advocate policies that would remove from parents the choice in the education of their children? Why would a sitting president be called a =93liar=94 and having deceived the people into war after congress voted twice to give him that authority and the UN Security Council voted unanimously for the same thing, while when pres. Clinton engaged Bosnia in a war, the majority leader of the then republican-controlled senate said that he is not prepared to criticize a sitting president in a time of war? (I believe it was Trent Lott, I cannot remember but I can look it up for you). Why would presenting a valid ID to vote be so fiercely opposed by liberals when the ballot box is the very artery of our existence depending on its purity to express the wishes of the citizens of this country? Why would liberals be so eager to confer amnesty upon millions of people with marginal economic ability unless they are expected to automatically become candidates supporting liberal policies? You already expressed opposition to this, but that only clarifies your position, not that of the liberals. You ought to join me in this fight. Why would liberals be so eager to allow people who are illegally in the country to vote for representatives unless it is to acquire those votes for their candidates? Why are liberals eager to pacify Muslims but are quick and readily prepared to vilify Christians? Steve, I have so many other questions that impugn the patriotism of modern-day liberals, to which one only gets diversionary insults when challenged, that one cannot but believe that they are not in politics for the sake of the country, which you and I love, but for the sake of obtaining and holding on to absolute power, regardless of the means and the lives it cost. Once the ballot box and the courts have been placed beyond the reach of the legal voting public by allowing unidentified people to vote and adding convicts and illegal immigrants to the voter rolls, do you think that the silent majority would accept this foreign culture and just go on? That was my question. I believe not. That is why I believe that Rush Limbaugh=92s crusade of more than 20 years, has retained the option of the ballot box for our children and us as an instrument of peaceful change, without having to rise up against the authorities to take back that which was fraudulently taken from us. Rush does not show up for work to make people angry (that is entirely your carpenter=92s own demeanor at work), but to confirm what people already knew and believed, longing to hear confirmation of their beliefs in the public arena of ideas. And, come to think of it, Steve, Rush only says what he sees and hears and the liberals are armed to take him down. Why? Does the mirror appear to reflect to the liberals an image that they don=92t want you and I to know about? It certainly appears to be the case. I stand by what I said, =93Rush has single-handedly prevented this country=92s second civil war.=94 Many followed in his footsteps, or in his trenches, so to speak, and made a difference. For that we ought to be very grateful. Respectfully, Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve @ Col-East Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 8:37 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me Nico, I wish I was better with words, and that we could still enjoy a beer together while disagreeing entirely. Before saying anything, I believe your deep feelings for the country are entirely genuine, and your motivations honorable. (Do you ever believe this of the other 'side'?)There is something of great value there. But the passionate hatred of half of your countrymen is alarming. Do you guys honestly believe all that crap about liberals being out to take down your country? That they hate freedom? That they want the terrorists to win? There's no shortage of you guys telling each other that. But have you ever talked to a 'liberal' and aksed what it was they wanted? What they dreamed of for their country? Have you ever researched what liberalism even is? For that matter, have you (guys) ever checked to see that you really are conservative? Something might be going wrong if the best and brightest conservative thinkers are chugging up one track, while self-professed 'conservatives' are speeding the train somewhere else entirely. When George Will, Buckley and Buchanon are turning around to see where the rest of the train has gone, there might be a problem with modern conservatism. It's looking a lot more like fascism. How many freedoms were lost under liberals? I am not going to live a life in fear of terrorist bogeymen. I am not going to change radically my notions of what passes for freedom. This idea that this is World War Three is ridiculus. We withstood a civil war, two real world wars, and the Soviet empire, without radically changing our society. My wife and I built our house with a local carpenter, after I cleared our land. He's a good guy and we liked him a lot, and the feeling was mutual. We worked together through rain and snow and sub-zero temperatures building our house. He would arrive at our site in a cheerful mood. Each morning after listening to his favorite morning broadcaster, he became angrier and angrier, cursing liberals and everything they stood for. The hatred and vitriol coming from the radio was alarming, and I wondered both how so many could believe what they were hearing as fact; and why people wished to listen to something that made them so angry day after day. While we are not liberals in the new sense of the word, we disagreed with an awful lot of what we heard. And of course if you disagree you are against freedom and for the terrorists, and for those that wish to bring our country down. It was very awkward. Citizens must watch carefully when leaders set up bogeymen and perpetual war, and act in the name of protecting freedom while proclaiming that those that disagree are the enemy. I've met a lot of people too, who profess deeply held religious beliefs of love and compassion, but act essentially in their own self interest. (P.S. I'm not a liberal, I'm not a conservative, and I was not raised a Christian. I believe that much of what the radical left believes is as goofy as the radical right. Good old fashioned conservatives and liberals were excellent when kept in balance. But some folks nowadays are taking the ball and running in completely wacky directions. That there should be unlimited and unregulated immigration is just plain stupid. That we should even be debating torture is apalling.) Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 1:02 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me Folks, this list is quite unique as it has content that are almost always of profound interest to other members, oftentimes not about Commanders but always about the group=92s interests. It=92s more like a fire-side chat than a technical list. And when people with common interests and passions sit together and talk, many a profound thing is exchanged. We talk about Commanders (first and foremost) but also about aviation in general, aircraft systems, engines, navaids, others=92 experiences, life loves, others who had an unequal number of take-offs and landings, politics, morals, and sometimes even religion. Those who are offended leave and they even leave with decorum. Those who have remained with us over the years have forged an invisible (to some) familial bond that is hard to describe, but wholly unnecessary to define. Not everyone agrees with what is said but an unspoken rule of respect prevails without sowing discord or insult. It=92s indeed unique, enjoyable, and a privilege. Everyone who has been on this list for a while knows that I, like so many others, am a patriot of this country in the extreme and not ashamed to proclaim that whenever I have a chance. But what does that mean? The best I can convey that to you, my family, is with a conversation I had with Rush Limbaugh last Monday. I didn=92t get to say everything I wanted, which is quite understandable considering the time issues with that medium, but that Rush gave me more than 6 minutes was in itself quite an achievement. In this time of war, which I believe was perfectly justified and necessary, assistance to our troops is of paramount importance, calling all of us to find some manner in which we can express our gratitude. I chose the manner of my support as I described it to Rush. Some of you might be interested in it. If you believe it=92s appropriate, please pass this on. We have already cut our first check for MCLEF and hope to do it again at the end of November. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM Let me know what you think. Thanks Nico PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really exist. Well, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag=85 _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:49 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming Ah! At last. Something from the list. I posted some messages this week and for some reason they just disappeared into never land. I=92ll see if this one is posted. Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:52 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites that measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is simply no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the recorded mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!! That may be why we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global climate change?? JB -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming Nico, I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is a huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs. Methane and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the stupidity of the politicians. I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the US, try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I see it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not so many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of flying, and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident. I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science classes in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The most we can do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200 million years after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species. Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to clean itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean and unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye, geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then. A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't log the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I live at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left as far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window and see lush, green, forested mountains. I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car. /ramble mode off/ /John Bill Bow wrote: > > Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico. > > bilbo > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] *On Behalf Of *nico css > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming > > Steve, > > I don=92t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of > the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean > up where we picnic and don=92t waste water, prefer a cleaner running > engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or show care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good and responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the globe=92s temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=EFve and believe in Santa Claus, I=92ll join you if it > means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just not rational. > > Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 > eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere > reaching up to 20,000=92 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100=92 tsunamis and boats rocked > in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions could be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and toxic gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square > kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and > increasing the landmass of several islands in the area. > > In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. > The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the > temperatures, normalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call a pristine environment. > > Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I > see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched > into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions of tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires ' and the planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then it=92s hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a hoax to blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty? > > I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for > responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, > my friend. You wouldn=92t part with five bucks if someone proposed this > as a business deal to you. You=92d probably call the cops. > > One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2 > deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with > friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in > the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is more than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever in the 10 years I=92ve been playing there several times per > week, has the temperature been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and 1,000=92 down to the coast > and the temperature would be vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you=92ve heard of the Santa Ana=92s, I=92m sure) the > entire region=92s temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and > when do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the > danger we=92re in? > > Nah. I=92d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. This > aint mud. > > Nico > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] *On Behalf Of > *Steve @ Col-East > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer > > I believe in the hoax. > > I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the > environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, > manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the industrial age. The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as billions more people adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of these gases in the atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be in dispute. > > Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I > guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem > sustainable. > > I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. > But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try. > > Green of Peak..... I like that..... > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* BobsV35B@aol.com > > > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM > > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer > > In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, > nico@cybersuperstore.com > writes: > > Surely, you don=92t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob? > > Good Evening Nico, > > What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn! > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > AKA > Bob Siegfried > Ancient Aviator > Stearman N3977A > Brookeridge Air Park LL22 > Downers Grove, IL 60516 > 630 985-8503 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > See what's > > * * > > * * > > *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ chref ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matroni cs.co m/Navigator?Commander-List* > > *href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * * > * * > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > * * > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > *http://forums.matronics.com* > * http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > * * > * > > > * > > > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________ > =========== nk>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List =========== /forums.matronics.com ===========
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail ! http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics. com /Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:09 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming =93Glaciers are dissappearing of mountains all over the world=94 As the one who picks the =93fly specks (fecal matter) out of the pepper=94, I=92d like to point out that the glaciers are actually in the valley between the mountains and not on the mountains themselves. Lighten up gents, the Asians are not going to do anything to help this and they are much bigger and polutier(my word). bilbo _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve @ Col-East Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 1:52 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming Oh for Pete's sake. You can argue the causes of 'global warming', and whether we have any responsibility, but to argue it isn't happening? I did a search for NASA global warming report, and the only place the earth isn't warming is on Fox News. The NASA chief himself was quoted as saying, "I have no doubt that ... a trend of global warming exists. I am not sure that it is fair to say that it is a problem we must wrestle with." He went on to speculate whether or not we should do anything about it. Griffin is of course a Bush appointee. The chief NASA climatologist is sounding all the alarms he can about the warming trend and the fact that the administration is doing all they can to suppress the data, and restrict the interaction of government scientists with the public. Glaciers are dissappearing of mountains all over the world. For the first time in history the Northwest Passage is open to navigation. 19 of the twentiest warmest years on record have been since 1980. Back to stacking wood...... ----- Original Message ----- From: yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 12:51 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming AMEN!! I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites that measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is simply no proof of "global warning". In fact, in a related piece , the recorded mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!! That may be why we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global climate change?? JB -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming Nico, I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is a huge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs. Methane and a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the stupidity of the politicians. I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the US, try to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I see it, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not so many elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of flying, and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident. I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science classes in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a stretch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The most we can do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200 million years after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species. Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to clean itself. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean and unpolluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye, geologically. Hopefully there would still be whales left then. A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing battles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't log the Headwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I live at the foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF earthquake, they clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuild San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left as far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window and see lush, green, forested mountains. I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me driving a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be called the "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car. /ramble mode off/ /John Bill Bow wrote: > > Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico. > > bilbo > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] *On Behalf Of *nico css > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming > > Steve, > > I don=92t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of > the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean > up where we picnic and don=92t waste water, prefer a cleaner running > engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believe that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are done or show care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good and responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the globe=92s temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=EFve and believe in Santa Claus, I=92ll join you if it > means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just not rational. > > Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 > eruption, the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere > reaching up to 20,000=92 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The August 1883 eruptions caused 100=92 tsunamis and boats rocked > in South Africa, thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions could be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius, nearly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and toxic gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the stratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amount of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square > kilometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and > increasing the landmass of several islands in the area. > > In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. > The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the > temperatures, normalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call a pristine environment. > > Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I > see the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched > into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions of tons of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires ' and the planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then it=92s hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a hoax to blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or, the Kyoto treaty? > > I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for > responsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, > my friend. You wouldn=92t part with five bucks if someone proposed this > as a business deal to you. You=92d probably call the cops. > > One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2 > deg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with > friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in > the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is more than 18 degrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever in the 10 years I=92ve been playing there several times per > week, has the temperature been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 miles west and 1,000=92 down to the coast > and the temperature would be vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you=92ve heard of the Santa Ana=92s, I=92m sure) the > entire region=92s temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and > when do they measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years > ago which is the time-frame some fraudsters use to determine the > danger we=92re in? > > Nah. I=92d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. This > aint mud. > > Nico > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] *On Behalf Of > *Steve @ Col-East > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer > > I believe in the hoax. > > I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the > environment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, > manufacturing, transportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000 years of stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the industrial age. The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as billions more people adopt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of these gases in the atmosphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be in dispute. > > Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I > guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem > sustainable. > > I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. > But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try. > > Green of Peak..... I like that..... > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* BobsV35B@aol.com > > > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM > > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer > > In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, > nico@cybersuperstore.com > writes: > > Surely, you don=92t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob? > > Good Evening Nico, > > What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn! > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > AKA > Bob Siegfried > Ancient Aviator > Stearman N3977A > Brookeridge Air Park LL22 > Downers Grove, IL 60516 > 630 985-8503 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > See what's > > * * > > * * > > *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ chref ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matroni cs.co m/Navigator?Commander-List* > > *href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * * > * * > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > * * > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > *http://forums.matronics.com* > * http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > * * > * > > > * > > > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________ > =========== nk>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List =========== /forums.matronics.com =========== _____ size=2 width="100%" align=center> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail ! href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics. com /Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:36 PM PST US From: "Deneal Schilmeister" Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 2:01 PM Steve, I'm not saying the globe isn't warming. I'm kinda glad, actually, because it means we're not in an ice age. Did you know that Greenland was named Greenland because when it was discovered, it was GREEN? As in, no ice. NOT EXACTLY, John: The real story behind the name is given in Erik the Red's Saga, based on oral tradition and written down in the early thirteenth century in Iceland. After the Icelandic landn=E1m was over, Erik the Red and his father Thorvald were forced to leave Norway because one or both of them was involved in killings (details are not given). After Thorvald died, Erik was involved in yet more killings, for which his punishment was three years' vacation--er, I mean banishment from Iceland. (And you thought O. J. got off easy.) He used the time to explore the rumored lands to the west. When his term of banishment expired, he returned to Icleand to invite his neighbors and friends to settle the new country with him. He purposely chose the pleasant name Gr=E6nland ("green land") to attract settlers, but the choice wasn't exactly misleading. Some parts of Greenland, especially the parts the Norse settled, really are green, as these pictures from the tourist board attest (www.greenland-guide.dk/outdoor_life_photo.htm). He may have been a killer, but at least he wasn't a real-estate scam-artist. He didn't have that much to gain by lying anyway, since he didn't charge anyone for the land. As in Iceland a century before, the land was free for the taking. Natives had lived in the area in the past, but at the time of Erik's voyage, only the northern part of Greenland was occupied by the Inuit (Eskimos). The unoccupied land in southern Greenland really was of much higher quality than anything that remained unclaimed in Iceland. The greenery that most interested the settlers was the pasturage, which was good enough to support their sheep, goats, horses, swine, and cattle. The Norsemen lived on the milk and meat from their livestock, supplemented with their catch of caribou, small game, fish, and sea mammals. No doubt they also partook of sea-bird eggs and berries. They were able to grow some grain (probably barley), but they must have had to import some as well. They also imported luxury goods, such as wine and silk. They could afford the imports because they sold wool, hides, and walrus and narwhal tusks. The last two items especially were in high demand in Europe. The trade continued for hundreds of years despite the fact that the voyage was always a dangerous one. The Norse settlements in Greenland died out eventually, but they thrived for at least three centuries and survived almost five. Five hundred years is nothing to sneeze at when you consider that Jamestown was settled less than 400 years ago. The exact reason behind the failure is still an open question, but worsening climatic conditions, with a very cold period in the early- to mid-fifteenth century, surely contributed to it. A PBS documentary series, Secrets of the Dead, did an informative episode about the disappearance of the Greenland colony (www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/html/e2-menu.html). ___________________________ Deneal Schilmeister St. Louis - Cincinnati http://deneals.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:38 PM PST US From: John Vormbaum Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming Deaneal, Thanks for the clarification, and I stand corrected....I should know better than to jump into this with limited knowledge of some subjects :-). /J Deneal Schilmeister wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > On Behalf Of John Vormbaum > Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 2:01 PM > > > > > Steve, > > > > I'm not saying the globe isn't warming. I'm kinda glad, actually, > > because it means we're not in an ice age. Did you know that Greenland > > was named Greenland because when it was discovered, it was GREEN? As in, > > no ice. > > > > NOT EXACTLY, John: > > > > The real story behind the name is given in Erik the Red's Saga, based > on oral tradition and written down in the early thirteenth century in > Iceland. After the Icelandic landnm was over, Erik the Red and his > father Thorvald were forced to leave Norway because one or both of > them was involved in killings (details are not given). After Thorvald > died, Erik was involved in yet more killings, for which his punishment > was three years' vacation--er, I mean banishment from Iceland. (And > you thought O. J. got off easy.) > > > > He used the time to explore the rumored lands to the west. When his > term of banishment expired, he returned to Icleand to invite his > neighbors and friends to settle the new country with him. He purposely > chose the pleasant name Grnland ("green land") to attract settlers, > but the choice wasn't exactly misleading. Some parts of Greenland, > especially the parts the Norse settled, really are green, as these > pictures from the tourist board attest > (www.greenland-guide.dk/outdoor_life_photo.htm). He may have been a > killer, but at least he wasn't a real-estate scam-artist. He didn't > have that much to gain by lying anyway, since he didn't charge anyone > for the land. As in Iceland a century before, the land was free for > the taking. Natives had lived in the area in the past, but at the time > of Erik's voyage, only the northern part of Greenland was occupied by > the Inuit (Eskimos). > > > > The unoccupied land in southern Greenland really was of much higher > quality than anything that remained unclaimed in Iceland. The greenery > that most interested the settlers was the pasturage, which was good > enough to support their sheep, goats, horses, swine, and cattle. The > Norsemen lived on the milk and meat from their livestock, supplemented > with their catch of caribou, small game, fish, and sea mammals. No > doubt they also partook of sea-bird eggs and berries. They were able > to grow some grain (probably barley), but they must have had to import > some as well. They also imported luxury goods, such as wine and silk. > They could afford the imports because they sold wool, hides, and > walrus and narwhal tusks. The last two items especially were in high > demand in Europe. The trade continued for hundreds of years despite > the fact that the voyage was always a dangerous one. > > > > The Norse settlements in Greenland died out eventually, but they > thrived for at least three centuries and survived almost five. Five > hundred years is nothing to sneeze at when you consider that Jamestown > was settled less than 400 years ago. The exact reason behind the > failure is still an open question, but worsening climatic conditions, > with a very cold period in the early- to mid-fifteenth century, surely > contributed to it. A PBS documentary series, Secrets of the Dead, did > an informative episode about the disappearance of the Greenland colony > (www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/html/e2-menu.html > ). > > > > ___________________________ > > Deneal Schilmeister > > St. Louis - Cincinnati > > http://deneals.com > > > > > > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me From: yourtcfg@aol.com AMEN,AMEN,AMEN,AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! jb -----Original Message----- From: nico css Sent: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 4:29 pm Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me HI Steve, =C2- I beg the indulgence of the listers. =C2- You are ok with words, don=99t worry about that. We are not in disagre ement on many of the issues and we could quite peacefully have a beer. You d idn=99t resort to insults in your response, which I appreciate, but, t hen again, you did say you are not a liberal. Your decorum is appreciated. T hank you for that. =C2- Let me preface my response by saying, unchecked power in either direction is undesirable. But conservatism is not balanced by liberalism, but by account ability; I assume as liberalism would be. The task of accountability rests w ith the media, but the media, the watchdogs of society, has become the attac k dogs and safe-deposit boxes for the liberals, so no real accountability ha s been practiced for more than 50 years on either ideology. =C2- Something you said piqued my interest, and that is =9Cwe are not liberals in the new sense of the word=9D The word =9Cliberal=9D in the old sense, means, in short, one who is a =98free thinker=99. I=99d like to think about myself as one with a free will that think freely inside and outside the box. So, in the old se nse of the word, I guess I would be a liberal. In the new sense, however, th ere is no chance that I would be considered a liberal. It is because the mea ning of the word has been stripped from the language and replaced with anoth er meaning that is meant to soothe real free thinkers into believing that th e same principles apply as before, which is not the case. Instead, the real, covert meaning is only revealed by intense scrutiny and hard questions, a f ew of which I ask below. =C2- Similar concepts have been taken away from the language by overwhelming medi a coverage, to mean foreign things, such as the word =98gay=99. A couple of decades ago it meant to be happy; today it means to be a homosex ual. I realize and accept that there are people who have different sexual or ientations than I do and I don=99t care one way or the other, just as much as I expect others not to care one way or the other that I am straight, which is another word that has been violently stripped of its meaning. I do n=99t want to get involved into a gay-straight debate but just to illu strate the usurpation of benign words making them malignant. =C2- Anyone who, today, claims to be gay would imply homosexuality and whether on e intends to mean happiness would be meaningless. It would be the current un derstanding of the word that applies. Equally foolish would be to refer to o neself as a liberal in the old sense, while the label of contemporary libera lism would apply. So, it is to the liberal in the modern sense that I refer when I speak about liberals. =C2- You asked many good questions. I don=99t want to argue every one of th em at this point, but I=99d like to ponder on them for a while to be s ure that I do justice to your questions and respond at another time. In the mean time, however, let me ask, with the motive of illustrating also my posi tion, some questions with which I struggle. =C2- Why would a modern liberal presidential candidate make utterances that are i ndistinguishable from that of Karl Marx and the media do not report them as such? Why would liberal politicians maintain that taxes have to be increased to ra ise more money for the treasury, while exactly the opposite proved to raise more money? Why would news about successes in the war in Iraq appear deep inside the pri nt media instead of on the front pages where they belong? Why would 41 senators sign a petition, based on inaccurate information, to s ensor a private citizen=99s right to free speech? Why would a US president allow secret missile technology to be sold to one o f the country=99s archenemies? Why would liberals advocate policies that would remove from parents the choi ce in the education of their children? Why would a sitting president be called a =9Cliar=9D and having deceived the people into war after congress voted twice to give him that aut hority and the UN Security Council voted unanimously for the same thing, whi le when pres. Clinton engaged Bosnia in a war, the majority leader of the th en republican-controlled senate said that he is not prepared to criticize a sitting president in a time of war? (I believe it was Trent Lott, I cannot r emember but I can look it up for you). Why would presenting a valid ID to vote be so fiercely opposed by liberals w hen the ballot box is the very artery of our existence depending on its puri ty to express the wishes of the citizens of this country? Why would liberals be so eager to confer amnesty upon millions of people wit h marginal economic ability unless they are expected to automatically become candidates supporting liberal policies? You already expressed opposition to this, but that only clarifies your position, not that of the liberals. You ought to join me in this fight. Why would liberals be so eager to allow people who are illegally in the coun try to vote for representatives unless it is to acquire those votes for thei r candidates? Why are liberals eager to pacify Muslims but are quick and readily prepared to vilify Christians? =C2- Steve, I have so many other questions that impugn the patriotism of modern-d ay liberals, to which one only gets diversionary insults when challenged, th at one cannot but believe that they are not in politics for the sake of the country, which you and I love, but for the sake of obtaining and holding on to absolute power, regardless of the means and the lives it cost. =C2- Once the ballot box and the courts have been placed beyond the reach of the legal voting public by allowing unidentified people to vote and adding convi cts and illegal immigrants to the voter rolls, do you think that the silent majority would accept this foreign culture and just go on? That was my quest ion. I believe not. That is why I believe that Rush Limbaugh=99s crusa de of more than 20 years, has retained the option of the ballot box for our children and us as an instrument of peaceful change, without having to rise up against the authorities to take back that which was fraudulently taken fr om us. =C2-Rush does not show up for work to make people angry (that is en tirely your carpenter=99s own demeanor at work), but to confirm what p eople already knew and believed, longing to hear confirmation of their belie fs in the public arena of ideas. And, come to think of it, Steve, Rush only says what he sees and hears and the liberals are armed to take him down. Why ? Does the mirror appear to reflect to the liberals an image that they don =99t want you and I to know about? It certainly appears to be the case .. =C2- I stand by what I said, =9CRush has single-handedly prevented this cou ntry=99s second civil war.=9D Many followed in his footsteps, or in his trenches, so to speak, and made a difference. For that we ought to b e very grateful. =C2- Respectfully, =C2- Nico =C2- =C2- =C2- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list -server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve @ Col-East Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 8:37 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me =C2- Nico, =C2- I wish I was better with words, and that we could still enjoy a beer togethe r while disagreeing entirely. Before saying anything, I believe your deep fe elings for the country are entirely genuine, and your motivations honorable. (Do you ever believe this of the other 'side'?)There is something of great value there. But the passionate hatred of half of your countrymen is alarmin g. Do you guys honestly believe all that crap about liberals being out to ta ke down your country? That they hate freedom? That they want the terrorists to win? There's no shortage of you guys telling each other that. But have yo u ever talked to a 'liberal' and aksed what it was they wanted? What they dr eamed of for their country? Have you ever researched what liberalism even is ? For that matter, have you=C2-(guys) ever checked to see that you really are conservative? Something might be going wrong if the best and brightest c onservative thinkers=C2-are chugging up one track, while self-professed 'c onservatives' are speeding the train somewhere else entirely. When George Wi ll, Buckley and Buchanon are turning around to see where the rest of the tra in has gone, there might be a problem with modern conservatism. It's looking a lot more like fascism. How many freedoms were lost under liberals? I am n ot going to live a life in fear of terrorist bogeymen. I am not going to cha nge radically my notions of what passes for freedom. This idea that this is World War Three is ridiculus. We withstood a civil war, two real world wars, and the Soviet empire, without radically changing our society. =C2- My wife and I built our house with a local carpenter, after I cleared our la nd. He's a good guy and we liked him a lot, and the feeling was mutual. We w orked together through rain and snow and sub-zero temperatures building our house. He would arrive at our site in a cheerful mood. Each morning after li stening to his favorite morning broadcaster, he became angrier and angrier, cursing liberals and everything they stood for. The hatred and vitriol comin g from the radio was alarming, and I wondered both how so many could believe what they were hearing as fact; and why people wished to listen to somethin g that made them so angry day after day. While we are not liberals in the ne w sense of the word, we disagreed with an awful lot of what we heard. And of course if you disagree you are against freedom and for the terrorists, and for those that wish to bring our country down. It was very awkward. =C2- Citizens must=C2-watch carefully when leaders set up bogeymen and perpetua l war, and act in the name of protecting freedom while proclaiming that thos e that disagree are the enemy. I've met a lot of people too,=C2-who profes s deeply held religious beliefs of love and compassion, but act essentially in their own self interest. =C2- (P.S. I'm not a liberal, I'm not a conservative, and I was not raised a Chri stian. I believe that much of what the radical left believes is as goofy as the radical right. Good old fashioned conservatives and liberals were excell ent when kept in balance. But some folks nowadays are taking the ball and ru nning in completely wacky directions. That there should be unlimited and unr egulated immigration is just plain stupid. That we should even be debating t orture is apalling.) =C2- Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 1:02 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Rush Limbaugh and me =C2- Folks, this list is quite unique as it has content that are almost always of profound interest to other members, oftentimes not about Commanders but alw ays about the group=99s interests. It=99s more like a fire-side chat than a technical list. And when people with common interests and passio ns sit together and talk, many a profound thing is exchanged. We talk about Commanders (first and foremost) but also about aviation in general, aircraft systems, engines, navaids, others=99 experiences, life loves, others who had an unequal number of take-offs and landings, politics, morals, and s ometimes even religion. Those who are offended leave and they even leave wit h decorum. Those who have remained with us over the years have forged an inv isible (to some) familial bond that is hard to describe, but wholly unnecess ary to define. Not everyone agrees with what is said but an unspoken rule of respect prevails without sowing discord or insult. It=99s indeed uniq ue, enjoyable, and a privilege. Everyone who has been on this list for a while knows that I, like so many ot hers, am a patriot of this country in the extreme and not ashamed to proclai m that whenever I have a chance. But what does that mean? The best I can con vey that to you, my family, is with a conversation I had with Rush Limbaugh last Monday. I didn=99t get to say everything I wanted, which is quite understandable considering the time issues with that medium, but that Rush gave me more than 6 minutes was in itself quite an achievement. In this time of war, which I believe was perfectly justified and necessary, assistance to our troops is of paramount importance, calling all of us to fi nd some manner in which we can express our gratitude. I chose the manner of my support as I described it to Rush. Some of you might be interested in it. If you believe it=99s appropriate, please pass this on. We have alrea dy cut our first check for MCLEF and hope to do it again at the end of Novem ber. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-FtJq5-pM Let me know what you think. Thanks Nico =C2- PS. Some years ago someone on the list questioned whether I really exist. We ll, I guess, now the cat is out of the bag =C2- =C2- =C2- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list -server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:49 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: environment global warming =C2- Ah! At last. Something from the list. =C2- I posted some messages this week and for some reason they just disappeared i nto never land. I=99ll see if this one is posted. =C2- Nico =C2- =C2- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list -server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:52 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming =C2- AMEN!!=C2- I just read where the head of NASA (they own the satellites tha t measure temp, ocean levels etc) said in a press release that the is simply no proof of "global warning".=C2- In fact, in a related piece , the recor ded mid level temps have fallen .036 deg in the last 20 years!!=C2- That m ay be why we hear less about "global warming" and more the phrase "Global cl imate change??=C2-=C2-=C2- JB -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 8:01 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: environment global warming - =C2- Nico,=C2- =C2- I have to say that I agree with you totally. The carbon offset theme is a hu ge scam. To repeat myself from yesterday, focusing on JUST CO2 vs. Methane a nd a collection of other greenhouse gases is one indicator of the stupidity of the politicians.=C2- =C2- I too, living in northern CA, one of the most beautiful places in the US, tr y to behave as if I weren't here. I don't litter, pick up trash when I see i t, recycle, don't waste water, don't hunt whales or elephants (OK, not so ma ny elephants here), live as "green" a lifestyle as I can outside of flying, and generally try to be a zero-environmental-impact resident.=C2- =C2- I am with you 100% regarding the toxic natural events of the planet's past. As someone who took a few (albeit informative) environmental science classes in college, one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly is that it is a str etch, and a conceit, to think that we can destroy the planet. The most we ca n do is make it unlivable for humans & several other species. 200 million ye ars after that, the Earth will once again be beautiful, never noticing that we were ever here. It will also be teeming with new species.=C2- =C2- Oceanographers at Scripps have been studying the ocean's ability to clean it self. If humans disappeared tomorrow, the oceans would be 100% clean and unp olluted in only 3,000 years. That is the merest blink of an eye, geologicall y. Hopefully there would still be whales left then.=C2- =C2- A little anecdote here in norCal: For many years there have been ongoing bat tles about logging & clearcutting. While I agree that we shouldn't log the H eadwaters Forest, I think the logging argument is way overblown. I live at t he foot of the Santa Cruz Mountains. In 1907, after the big SF earthquake, t hey clearcut the ENTIRE RANGE, from SF down to Salinas, for lumber to rebuil d San Francisco. Stumps & weeds were all that was left as far as the eye can see. A mere 100 years later, and I look out my window and see lush, green, forested mountains.=C2- =C2- I'll continue to be environmentally responsible, but you won't catch me driv ing a Toyota Prius (based on the owners around here, they should be called t he "Toyota Pious") and thinking I'm the savior of the environment. I bet the carbon footprint of Prius manufacture is 3x a normal car.=C2- =C2- /ramble mode off/=C2- =C2- /John=C2- =C2- Bill Bow wrote:=C2- >=C2- > Wow! I thought you lived in California Nico. =C2- >=C2- > bilbo=C2- >=C2- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ =C2- >=C2- > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commande r-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *nico css=C2- > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:03 PM=C2- > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com=C2- > *Subject:* Commander-List: environment global warming=C2- >=C2- > Steve,=C2- >=C2- > I don=99t disagree with the notion that we ought to be conservators of > the environment. I pick up behind me when I accidentally litter, clean > up where we picnic and don=99t waste water, prefer a cleaner running > engine than one that spews dirt into the air and so on. I firmly > believ e that no reasonable person would disagree that cleaning up when > we are do ne or show care when we deal with what we do to the > environment is a good and responsible thing to do. But to assume that > we are influencing the glo be=99s temperature is just not rational. If > you claim to be na=C3 =AFve and believe in Santa Claus, I=99ll join you if it > means being responsible custodians of the environment. But to believe > that we can, are able, to affect climate change, is just not rational.=C2- >=C2- > Take the Krakatoa eruptions for instance: Years before the 1883 > eruption , the volcano regularly spewed ash into the atmosphere > reaching up to 20,0 00=99 with the noise being heard up to 100 miles > away. The August 18 83 eruptions caused 100=99 tsunamis and boats rocked > in South Africa , thousands of miles away because of them. The sound of > the explosions cou ld be heard in Australia more than 2,000 miles away > and in Mauritius, near ly 3,000 miles away. It shot more than 20 cubic > kilometers of ash and toxi c gasses, such as sulfur dioxide and > sulfuric acid, 50 miles up into the s tratosphere and spread it all > over the planet, causing a five-year global acid rain. The sky was > blood red and the moon was blue for years after the explosion and > artists painted red sunsets in Sweden and Europe. The amoun t of ash > that fell back to the earth covered about one million square > ki lometers drastically altering the ocean floor in the area and > increasing t he landmass of several islands in the area.=C2- >=C2- > In 1888, five years after the event, everything was back to normal. > The planet cleaned the air, cleaned the ocean, normalized the > temperatures, no rmalized the weather, and today that area is what some > tourists call a pri stine environment.=C2- >=C2- > Steve, I try to be rational about this global warming thing, but if I > se e the amount of soot, acid and pollution Saddam Hussein launched > into the atmosphere after setting those oil fields on fire in the > nineties, the Mt. St. Helens eruption, all the other natural events > spewing millions of ton s of toxic material into the air; an unknown > amount of submarine fissures spewing toxic magma into the oceans, > massive forest fires =93 and th e planet deals with it, as it has been > for millions of years, then it =99s hard to swallow the propaganda of > global warming as anything but a hoax to blackmail us into parting > with very large sums of money. I mean, where have you seen a more > blatant fraud than the carbon-offset scheme? Or , the Kyoto treaty?=C2- >=C2- > I say again, I love the planet as you do, and I am an activist for > respo nsible stewardship of resources and life, but this is a swindle, > my friend . You wouldn=99t part with five bucks if someone proposed this > as a business deal to you. You=99d probably call the cops.=C2- >=C2- > One more thing. If they say that the temperatures would rise by 1 or 2 > d eg, how would they measure that? Think about it. I pay tennis with > friends about 10 miles from where I live. We like to play at 7 AM in > the morning. Some mornings in the winter, the temperature difference > is more than 18 d egrees between the house and the tennis courts. > Never, ever in the 10 year s I=99ve been playing there several times per > week, has the temperat ure been the same at the house and at the > courts. Ten miles? I can go 20 m iles west and 1,000=99 down to the coast > and the temperature would b e vastly different again. On the same day. > If the wind blows (you =99ve heard of the Santa Ana=99s, I=99m sure) the > entire regio n=99s temperature is hay-wire. Where do they measure and > when do the y measure to come up with a definite 1 deg difference? > Satellites? Weather stations? Balloons? How did they do it 1,000 years > ago which is the time- frame some fraudsters use to determine the > danger we=99re in?=C2- >=C2- > Nah. I=99d stay with reason, thank you. I know mud when I see mud. T his > aint mud.=C2- >=C2- > Nico=C2- >=C2- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ =C2- >=C2- > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commande r-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Steve @ Col-East=C2- > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:40 PM=C2- > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com=C2- > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer=C2- >=C2- > I believe in the hoax.=C2- >=C2- > I find the hostility toward the notion that we might be affecting the > en vironment in a dramatic fashion very odd. Agriculture, > manufacturing, tran sportation, heating and cooling, recreation all > contribute. 10,000 years o f stable CO2 levels, begin a sharp rise at > the dawn of the industrial age. The rate of change is increasing > dramatically as billions more people ado pt our style of living. The > fact that the amount of these gases in the atm osphere influence the > temperature cannot seriously be in dispute.=C2- >=C2- > Oil production has likely peaked. Consumption continues to rise. I > guess I'm naive(I still believe in Santa Claus), but this doesn't seem > sustaina ble.=C2- >=C2- > I love big old radials, belching steam locomotives, and big blocks. > But if day to day I can make a little difference, I'll try.=C2- >=C2- > Green of Peak..... I like that.....=C2- >=C2- > Steve=C2- >=C2- > ----- Original Message -----=C2- >=C2- > *From:* BobsV35B@aol.com =C2- >=C2- > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com=C2- > =C2- >=C2- > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:22 PM=C2- >=C2- > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer=C2- >=C2- > In a message dated 11/6/2007 3:07:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,=C2- > nico@cybersuperstore.com writes:=C2- >=C2- > Surely, you don=99t buy into the hoax, do you Old Bob?=C2- >=C2- > Good Evening Nico,=C2- >=C2- > What hoax is involved? I am always willing to learn!=C2- >=C2- > Happy Skies,=C2- >=C2- > Old Bob=C2- > AKA=C2- > Bob Siegfried=C2- > Ancient Aviator=C2- > Stearman N3977A=C2- > Brookeridge Air Park LL22=C2- > Downers Grove, IL 60516=C2- > 630 985-8503=C2- >=C2- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ =C2- >=C2- > See what's=C2- >=C2- > * *=C2- >=C2- > * *=C2- >=C2- > *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*=C2- >=C2- > *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*=C2- >=C2- > * *=C2- >=C2- > * *=C2- > * *=C2- > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*=C2- > * *=C2- > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*=C2- > *http://forums.matronics.com*=C2- > * http://www.matronics.com/contribution*=C2- > **=C2- > **=C2- > **=C2- > **=C2- > **=C2- > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List*=C2- > **=C2- > *http://forums.matronics.com*=C2- > * *=C2- > *=C2- >=C2- >=C2- > *=C2- >=C2- >=C2- > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________=C2- >=C2- =C2- ============C2- nk>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=C2-; ============C2- arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List=C2-; ============C2- /forums.matronics.com=C2- ============C2- =C2-
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