---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 12/08/07: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:51 AM - Re: Commander 685 s/n 12059 Lost track of.... (N395V) 2. 05:52 AM - Re: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs (Myron Ashley) 3. 06:53 AM - Re: Re: Commander 685 s/n 12059 Lost track of.... (nico css) 4. 07:01 AM - Re: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs (nico css) 5. 07:39 AM - Re: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs (Gary Giesler) 6. 08:39 AM - Re: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs (BertBerry1@aol.com) 7. 08:45 AM - Re: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs (Don) 8. 10:16 AM - Re: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream (Steve W) 9. 10:18 AM - Re: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs (Steve W) 10. 12:53 PM - air show (JTAddington) 11. 01:07 PM - Re: Commander 685 s/n 12059 Lost track of.... (N395V) 12. 03:26 PM - Re: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs (W J R HAMILTON) 13. 04:27 PM - Re: air show (Bill Bow) 14. 04:49 PM - amp/volt gauges (Nancy Gilliam) 15. 07:21 PM - Re: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream (yourtcfg@aol.com) 16. 08:19 PM - electric car (Victor C. Rupert) 17. 08:47 PM - Re: electric car (John Vormbaum) 18. 09:32 PM - Re: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs (nico css) 19. 09:43 PM - Re: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs (nico css) 20. 09:53 PM - Re: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs (nico css) 21. 10:43 PM - Re: electric car (W J R HAMILTON) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:24 AM PST US Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander 685 s/n 12059 Lost track of.... From: "N395V" Nico, Do you still have a link to that Orenda video. The link above no longer works. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151159#151159 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:32 AM PST US From: "Myron Ashley" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs I would take 6. Myron Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:07 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs If you guys would be interested in purchasing Commander Mugs, I'll make a couple. I'd like to have an idea of quantity because there are fixed costs etc. Let me know, guys. Thanks for the plug, Steve. They are really nice. Nico www.faithmugs.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:16 PM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs After all the political hooey of a week or so ago, I went to Nico's site looking for clues as to what makes the right tick. I knew he made mugs with sayings on them, and seemed one of the more thoughtful. The first coffee mug I clicked on was the Beatitudes. I read a message of peace, justice and mercy. I'm not a religious man, and was not raised Christian. But I bought a mug anyway. Whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, or evil secular humanist; it's hard to argue with the message. I later found out the Beatitudes are among my wife's favorites. The 'Wisdom' mug, also had some good stuff on it. Nico tossed one into my order, being the decent guy that he is. I'd like to give a plug to his company. (I REALLY DON'T want to start any political debate here.) The mugs make nice gifts. Can we get a mug with a Commander on them? Happy Hanukkah! Steve http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?C ommander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:18 AM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commander 685 s/n 12059 Lost track of.... Sure, Milt. Go to www.aerocommander.com click on STC Holders which will open the page dealing with the Orenda and the video can be viewed from there. Let me know if you have problems. Thanks Nico -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N395V Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 5:51 AM Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander 685 s/n 12059 Lost track of.... --> Nico, Do you still have a link to that Orenda video. The link above no longer works. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151159#151159 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:24 AM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs I had a fairly good response for Commander mugs, thanks guys. Some requested to see them before we put them into a kiln - I think that would be prudent, so I'll mock up some designs and have you folks pick the best (perhaps a competition?) and then we will burn those. My gut-feel tells me they should be of original design, so perhaps we could use our own pictures, what do you say? We can manufacture one-offs, too, and personalize them. Just a thought. So, if you have a favorite picture you would like to see on a coffee mug (mug on a mug?) send them to me, so we can start evaluating the product. Say a generic range and one-offs for personalized ones. Thanks Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Myron Ashley Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 5:57 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs I would take 6. Myron Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:07 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs If you guys would be interested in purchasing Commander Mugs, I'll make a couple. I'd like to have an idea of quantity because there are fixed costs etc. Let me know, guys. Thanks for the plug, Steve. They are really nice. Nico www.faithmugs.com _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:16 PM Subject: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs After all the political hooey of a week or so ago, I went to Nico's site looking for clues as to what makes the right tick. I knew he made mugs with sayings on them, and seemed one of the more thoughtful. The first coffee mug I clicked on was the Beatitudes. I read a message of peace, justice and mercy. I'm not a religious man, and was not raised Christian. But I bought a mug anyway. Whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, or evil secular humanist; it's hard to argue with the message. I later found out the Beatitudes are among my wife's favorites. The 'Wisdom' mug, also had some good stuff on it. Nico tossed one into my order, being the decent guy that he is. I'd like to give a plug to his company. (I REALLY DON'T want to start any political debate here.) The mugs make nice gifts. Can we get a mug with a Commander on them? Happy Hanukkah! Steve http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:27 AM PST US From: Gary Giesler Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs Put me down for two mugs. Ga ry Giesler N5 00RX From: nico@cybersuperstore.comTo: commander-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs If you guys would be interested in purchasing Commander Mugs, I=92ll make a couple. I=92d like to have an idea of quantity because there are fixed cos ts etc. Let me know, guys. Thanks for the plug, Steve. They are really nice. Nico www.faithmugs.com From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve WSent: Tuesday, December 04, 200 7 4:16 PMTo: commander-list@matronics.comSubject: Commander-List: Off Topic : Nico's Mugs After all the political hooey of a week or so ago, I went to Nico's site lo oking for clues as to what makes the right tick. I knew he made mugs with s ayings on them, and seemed one of the more thoughtful. The first coffee mug I clicked on was the Beatitudes. I read a message of p eace, justice and mercy. I'm not a religious man, and was not raised Christ ian. But I bought a mug anyway. Whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, or evil sec ular humanist; it's hard to argue with the message. I later found out the B eatitudes are among my wife's favorites. The 'Wisdom' mug, also had some go od stuff on it. Nico tossed one into my order, being the decent guy that he is. I'd like to give a plug to his company. (I REALLY DON'T want to start any p olitical debate here.) The mugs make nice gifts. Can we get a mug with a Co mmander on them? Happy Hanukkah! Steve http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator? Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_1120 07 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:13 AM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs From: BertBerry1@aol.com You can put me down for two as well. Bert -----Original Message----- From: Gary Giesler To: Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs Put me down for two mugs. Gary Giesler N500RX ---------------- From: nico@cybersuperstore.com Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs If you guys would be interested in purchasing Commander Mugs, Ill make a couple. Id like to have an idea of quantity because there are fixed costs etc. Let me know, guys. Thanks for the plug, Steve. They are really nice. Nico www.faithmugs.com ---------------- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:16 PM Subject: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs After all the political hooey of a week or so ago, I went to Nico's site looking for clues as to what makes the right tick. I knew he made mugs with sayings on them, and seemed one of the more thoughtful. The first coffee mug I clicked on was the Beatitudes. I read a message of peace, justice and mercy. I'm not a religious man, and was not raised Christian. But I bought a mug anyway. Whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, or evil secular humanist; it's hard to argue with the message. I later found out the Beatitudes are among my wife's favorites. The 'Wisdom' mug, also had some good stuff on it. Nico tossed one into my order, being the decent guy that he is. I'd like togive a plug to his company. (I REALLY DON'T want to start any political debate here.) The mugs make nice gifts. Can we get a mug with a Commander on them? Happy Hanukkah! Steve http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List p://forums.matronics.com ---------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:02 AM PST US From: "Don" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs Nico; How do you suggest we send you our photo's Don ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 10:00 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs I had a fairly good response for Commander mugs, thanks guys. Some requested to see them before we put them into a kiln - I think that would be prudent, so I'll mock up some designs and have you folks pick the best (perhaps a competition?) and then we will burn those. My gut-feel tells me they should be of original design, so perhaps we could use our own pictures, what do you say? We can manufacture one-offs, too, and personalize them. Just a thought. So, if you have a favorite picture you would like to see on a coffee mug (mug on a mug?) send them to me, so we can start evaluating the product. Say a generic range and one-offs for personalized ones. Thanks Nico ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Myron Ashley Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 5:57 AM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs I would take 6. Myron Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:07 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs If you guys would be interested in purchasing Commander Mugs, I'll make a couple. I'd like to have an idea of quantity because there are fixed costs etc. Let me know, guys. Thanks for the plug, Steve. They are really nice. Nico www.faithmugs.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:16 PM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs After all the political hooey of a week or so ago, I went to Nico's site looking for clues as to what makes the right tick. I knew he made mugs with sayings on them, and seemed one of the more thoughtful. The first coffee mug I clicked on was the Beatitudes. I read a message of peace, justice and mercy. I'm not a religious man, and was not raised Christian. But I bought a mug anyway. Whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, or evil secular humanist; it's hard to argue with the message. I later found out the Beatitudes are among my wife's favorites. The 'Wisdom' mug, also had some good stuff on it. Nico tossed one into my order, being the decent guy that he is. I'd like to give a plug to his company. (I REALLY DON'T want to start any political debate here.) The mugs make nice gifts. Can we get a mug with a Commander on them? Happy Hanukkah! Steve http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?C ommander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 12/8/2007 11:59 AM ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:16:30 AM PST US From: "Steve W" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream Jim, I don't think it's a one to one trade-off. All things being equal, the electric powered vehicle should be vastly more efficient than its gas powered cousin. True, you still need energy to drive them, but for a given distance the thing should just use a lot less of it wherever that energy comes from. I don't imagine it can be as rewarding as a 427 sucking through the secondaries, or even a hyper-four coming on cam, but I guess I should reserve judgement till I ride in something other than a stock Pious. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: yourtcfg@aol.com To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 12:23 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream It still takes energy to charge the stinking things, and since we get most (75%) from burning coal, what is the difference If they would let us build new nuke power plants to charge them, maybe. Na, I dont think even then :-) jb Electric cars are coming. But they're not going to replace gas powered cars anytime soon. That's my opinion anyway. -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 9:52 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream Well, the auto websites are rife with conspiracies about big oil & Detroit quashing electric cars. Electric cars mean no oil changes, no air filters, no spark plugs, etc....just wheel bearings & tires essentially, maybe with the occasional motor or battery being replaced. A whole sub-industry, maintenance and parts, would essentially be gone. Of course, the conspiracy nuts are imagining going all electric overnight. In reality it would probably take 30+ years to get there, so your piston business would be healthy for years to come. The wackiest thing I've seen on that is the "Who Killed the Electric Car" special about the Buick EV1. GM bought ALL of them back and ran them through a crusher despite the best efforts of the owners (all lessees) to keep them. It was GM, plus Chevron, plus the US Gov't. all conspiring to make sure that this great car didn't revolutionize the world. In truth, it was a good car, but had some issues including crappy range. Electric cars are coming. But they're not going to replace gas powered cars anytime soon. That's my opinion anyway. /J Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote: > > John, > > As a piston manufacturer that thought had not occurred to me. Resistance? > > Moe > N680RR > 680F(p) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John > Vormbaum > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:06 AM > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Subject: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream > > > Steve, > > I'm with you! Luckily for me it's a hobby, so I enjoy turning wrenches. That > opportunity will be all but gone if the electric car takes over. The auto > maintenance industry would essentially end, which is probably one factor in > the amount of resistance (ha!) electric cars are getting from the auto > industry. > > If you're looking for excitement, the Prius is NOT where you should be > looking. Try the Tesla Roadster http://www.teslamotors.com/ What's not to > like about 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and 130+ MPH top speed? Or check out the > ELIICA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliica Although a concept car, I just > saw a special on it on Discovery Channel. It did 320 kph on the track, and > its acceleration was far better than a Subaru WRX. There are some very > exciting electric cars on the horizon. > > /John > > PS: Incidentally, I'm a gun-totin' pilot as well. In fact, on all the gun > boards, my sigline is "Armed Pilot!" Sadly there is no political party for a > libertarian like myself. I'm adamantly pro-gun AND pro-choice, which makes > me welcome on neither side of the fence. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145958#145958 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:18:13 AM PST US From: "Steve W" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs Three or four anyway. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:07 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs If you guys would be interested in purchasing Commander Mugs, I'll make a couple. I'd like to have an idea of quantity because there are fixed costs etc. Let me know, guys. Thanks for the plug, Steve. They are really nice. Nico www.faithmugs.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:16 PM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs After all the political hooey of a week or so ago, I went to Nico's site looking for clues as to what makes the right tick. I knew he made mugs with sayings on them, and seemed one of the more thoughtful. The first coffee mug I clicked on was the Beatitudes. I read a message of peace, justice and mercy. I'm not a religious man, and was not raised Christian. But I bought a mug anyway. Whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, or evil secular humanist; it's hard to argue with the message. I later found out the Beatitudes are among my wife's favorites. The 'Wisdom' mug, also had some good stuff on it. Nico tossed one into my order, being the decent guy that he is. I'd like to give a plug to his company. (I REALLY DON'T want to start any political debate here.) The mugs make nice gifts. Can we get a mug with a Commander on them? Happy Hanukkah! Steve http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?C ommander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:25 PM PST US From: "JTAddington" Subject: Commander-List: air show This is a good air show site. http://www.airshowbuzz.com/videos/view.php?v=022754bc Jim A N444BD ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:23 PM PST US Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander 685 s/n 12059 Lost track of.... From: "N395V" Thanks Nico. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151201#151201 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:47 PM PST US From: W J R HAMILTON Subject: Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs Nico, Put me down for at least two "generic" mugs --- what size are they going to be? Cheers, Bill Hamilton ZK-DCF ---------- At 05:17 9/12/2007, you wrote: >Three or four anyway. > >Steve >----- Original Message ----- >From: nico css >To: commander-list@matronics.com >Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:07 PM >Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs > >If you guys would be interested in purchasing Commander Mugs, I'll >make a couple. I'd like to have an idea of quantity because there >are fixed costs etc. Let me know, guys. > >Thanks for the plug, Steve. They are really nice. > >Nico >www.faithmugs.com > > >---------- >From: >owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W >Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:16 PM >To: commander-list@matronics.com >Subject: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs > >After all the political hooey of a week or so ago, I went to Nico's >site looking for clues as to what makes the right tick. I knew he >made mugs with sayings on them, and seemed one of the more thoughtful. > >The first coffee mug I clicked on was the Beatitudes. I read a >message of peace, justice and mercy. I'm not a religious man, and >was not raised Christian. But I bought a mug anyway. Whether >Christian, Muslim, Jew, or evil secular humanist; it's hard to argue >with the message. I later found out the Beatitudes are among my >wife's favorites. The 'Wisdom' mug, also had some good stuff on it. >Nico tossed one into my order, being the decent guy that he is. > >I'd like to give a plug to his company. (I REALLY DON'T want to >start any political debate here.) The mugs make nice gifts. Can we >get a mug with a Commander on them? > >Happy Hanukkah! > >Steve > > >http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > > >http://forums.matronics.com > > >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > >href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:27:25 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: RE: Commander-List: air show Well that took about 2 hours..LOL bilbo _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JTAddington Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 3:52 PM Subject: Commander-List: air show This is a good air show site. http://www.airshowbuzz.com/videos/view.php?v=022754bc Jim A N444BD ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:31 PM PST US From: Nancy Gilliam Subject: Commander-List: amp/volt gauges Hello, Is there an stc for new amp/volt gauges for a straight 500? Or does anyone have 2 for sale and if so how much?? It has Delco Remy Generators. Thanks, Roland Gilliam ( nico, put me down for at least 2 mugs) _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_1120 07 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:43 PM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream From: yourtcfg@aol.com I wonder if that is really true?? It is rare that you can create energy (burning coal, combustion),? transfer it to another location (hi tention lines),?? Change the basic foundation (A-C to D-C) then load it into a storage battery, and use the energy.? Maby, but ill bet it is not?s effecient as a moden gas engine, (not my 427!!)?? jb All things being equal, the electric powered vehicle should be vastly more efficient than its gas powered cousin. -----Original Message----- From: Steve W Sent: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 10:15 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream Jim, ? I don't think it's a one to one trade-off. All things being equal, the electric powered vehicle should be vastly more efficient than its gas powered cousin. True, you still need energy to drive them, but for a given distance the thing should just use a lot less of it wherever that energy comes from. I don't imagine it can be as rewarding as a 427 sucking through the secondaries, or even a hyper-four coming on cam, but I guess I should reserve judgement till I ride in something other than a stock Pious. ? Steve ? ----- Original Message ----- From: yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 12:23 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream It still takes energy to charge the stinking?things, and since we get most (75%) from burning?coal, what is the difference? If they would let us build new nuke power plants to charge them, maybe.? Na, I dont think even then? :-)? jb Electric cars are coming. But they're not going to replace gas powered cars anytime soon. That's my opinion anyway. -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum Sent: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 9:52 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream ? Well, the auto websites are rife with conspiracies about big oil & Detroit quashing electric cars. Electric cars mean no oil changes, no air filters, no spark plugs, etc....just wheel bearings & tires essentially, maybe with the occasional motor or battery being replaced. A whole sub-industry, maintenance and parts, would essentially be gone. Of course, the conspiracy nuts are imagining going all electric overnight. In reality it would probably take 30+ years to get there, so your piston business would be healthy for years to come.? ? The wackiest thing I've seen on that is the "Who Killed the Electric Car" special about the Buick EV1. GM bought ALL of them back and ran them through a crusher despite the best efforts of the owners (all lessees) to keep them. It was GM, plus Chevron, plus the US Gov't. all conspiring to make sure that this great car didn't revolutionize the world. In truth, it was a good car, but had some issues including crappy range.? ? Electric cars are coming. But they're not going to replace gas powered cars anytime soon. That's my opinion anyway.? ? /J? ? Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote:? >? > John,? >? > As a piston manufacturer that thought had not occurred to me. Resistance?? >? > Moe? > N680RR? > 680F(p)? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com? > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John? > Vormbaum? > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:06 AM? > To: commander-list@matronics.com? > Subject: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream? >? >? > Steve,? >? > I'm with you! Luckily for me it's a hobby, so I enjoy turning wrenches. That? > opportunity will be all but gone if the electric car takes over. The auto? > maintenance industry would essentially end, which is probably one factor in? > the amount of resistance (ha!) electric cars are getting from the auto? > industry.? >? > If you're looking for excitement, the Prius is NOT where you should be? > looking. Try the Tesla Roadster http://www.teslamotors.com/ What's not to? > like about 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and 130+ MPH top speed? Or check out the? > ELIICA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliica Although a concept car, I just? > saw a special on it on Discovery Channel. It did 320 kph on the track, and? > its acceleration was far better than a Subaru WRX. There are some very? > exciting electric cars on the horizon.? >? > /John? >? > PS: Incidentally, I'm a gun-totin' pilot as well. In fact, on all the gun? > boards, my sigline is "Armed Pilot!" Sadly there is no political party for a? > libertarian like myself. I'm adamantly pro-gun AND pro-choice, which makes? > me welcome on neither side of the fence.? >? >? >? >? > Read this topic online here:? >? > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145958#145958? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? > ? ? ? href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:07 PM PST US From: "Victor C. Rupert" Subject: Commander-List: electric car If you are really interested in a decent electric this will thrill your pants off... And I drive an frame off resto '81Vette with a 3/4 race cam for fun. ( I like Vettes that look like Vettes ) http://www.teslamotors.com/ Check it out, Victor ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve W Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 12:15 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream Jim, I don't think it's a one to one trade-off. All things being equal, the electric powered vehicle should be vastly more efficient than its gas powered cousin. True, you still need energy to drive them, but for a given distance the thing should just use a lot less of it wherever that energy comes from. I don't imagine it can be as rewarding as a 427 sucking through the secondaries, or even a hyper-four coming on cam, but I guess I should reserve judgement till I ride in something other than a stock Pious. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: yourtcfg@aol.com To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 12:23 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream It still takes energy to charge the stinking things, and since we get most (75%) from burning coal, what is the difference If they would let us build new nuke power plants to charge them, maybe. Na, I dont think even then :-) jb Electric cars are coming. But they're not going to replace gas powered cars anytime soon. That's my opinion anyway. -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 9:52 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream Well, the auto websites are rife with conspiracies about big oil & Detroit quashing electric cars. Electric cars mean no oil changes, no air filters, no spark plugs, etc....just wheel bearings & tires essentially, maybe with the occasional motor or battery being replaced. A whole sub-industry, maintenance and parts, would essentially be gone. Of course, the conspiracy nuts are imagining going all electric overnight. In reality it would probably take 30+ years to get there, so your piston business would be healthy for years to come. The wackiest thing I've seen on that is the "Who Killed the Electric Car" special about the Buick EV1. GM bought ALL of them back and ran them through a crusher despite the best efforts of the owners (all lessees) to keep them. It was GM, plus Chevron, plus the US Gov't. all conspiring to make sure that this great car didn't revolutionize the world. In truth, it was a good car, but had some issues including crappy range. Electric cars are coming. But they're not going to replace gas powered cars anytime soon. That's my opinion anyway. /J Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote: > > John, > > As a piston manufacturer that thought had not occurred to me. Resistance? > > Moe > N680RR > 680F(p) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John > Vormbaum > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:06 AM > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Subject: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream > > > Steve, > > I'm with you! Luckily for me it's a hobby, so I enjoy turning wrenches. That > opportunity will be all but gone if the electric car takes over. The auto > maintenance industry would essentially end, which is probably one factor in > the amount of resistance (ha!) electric cars are getting from the auto > industry. > > If you're looking for excitement, the Prius is NOT where you should be > looking. Try the Tesla Roadster http://www.teslamotors.com/ What's not to > like about 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and 130+ MPH top speed? Or check out the > ELIICA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliica Although a concept car, I just > saw a special on it on Discovery Channel. It did 320 kph on the track, and > its acceleration was far better than a Subaru WRX. There are some very > exciting electric cars on the horizon. > > /John > > PS: Incidentally, I'm a gun-totin' pilot as well. In fact, on all the gun > boards, my sigline is "Armed Pilot!" Sadly there is no political party for a > libertarian like myself. I'm adamantly pro-gun AND pro-choice, which makes > me welcome on neither side of the fence. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145958#145958 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:21 PM PST US From: John Vormbaum Subject: Re: Commander-List: electric car Tesla is right up the road from me, and let me tell you, those cars RIP. Torque curve is constant, so the 0-60 in 4 sec. also translates to 70-130 in 4 sec. Pretty scary, eh? If they are actually good for 250 miles between charges, they'll probably sell quite a few. /J Victor C. Rupert wrote: > If you are really interested in a decent electric this will thrill > your pants off... And I drive an frame off resto '81Vette with a 3/4 > race cam for fun. ( I like Vettes that look like Vettes ) > > http://www.teslamotors.com/ > > Check it out, > > Victor > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Steve W > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Saturday, December 08, 2007 12:15 PM > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream > > Jim, > > I don't think it's a one to one trade-off. All things being equal, the > electric powered vehicle should be vastly more efficient than its gas > powered cousin. True, you still need energy to drive them, but for a > given distance the thing should just use a lot less of it wherever > that energy comes from. I don't imagine it can be as rewarding as a > 427 sucking through the secondaries, or even a hyper-four coming on > cam, but I guess I should reserve judgement till I ride in something > other than a stock Pious. > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* yourtcfg@aol.com > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > > *Sent:* Saturday, December 08, 2007 12:23 AM > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream > > It still takes energy to charge the stinking things, and since we > get most (75%) from burning coal, what is the difference If they > would let us build new nuke power plants to charge them, maybe. > Na, I dont think even then :-) jb > > Electric cars are coming. But they're not going to replace gas > powered cars anytime soon. That's my opinion anyway. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Vormbaum > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 9:52 am > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream > > > > > Well, the auto websites are rife with conspiracies about big oil & > Detroit quashing electric cars. Electric cars mean no oil changes, > no air filters, no spark plugs, etc....just wheel bearings & tires > essentially, maybe with the occasional motor or battery being > replaced. A whole sub-industry, maintenance and parts, would > essentially be gone. Of course, the conspiracy nuts are imagining > going all electric overnight. In reality it would probably take > 30+ years to get there, so your piston business would be healthy > for years to come. > > The wackiest thing I've seen on that is the "Who Killed the > Electric Car" special about the Buick EV1. GM bought ALL of them > back and ran them through a crusher despite the best efforts of > the owners (all lessees) to keep them. It was GM, plus Chevron, > plus the US Gov't. all conspiring to make sure that this great car > didn't revolutionize the world. In truth, it was a good car, but > had some issues including crappy range. > > Electric cars are coming. But they're not going to replace gas > powered cars anytime soon. That's my opinion anyway. > > /J > > Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote: > Pistons" > > > > > John, > > > > As a piston manufacturer that thought had not occurred to me. > Resistance? > > > > Moe > > N680RR > > 680F(p) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > > > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of > John > > Vormbaum > > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:06 AM > > To: commander-list@matronics.com > > > Subject: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > I'm with you! Luckily for me it's a hobby, so I enjoy turning > wrenches. That > > opportunity will be all but gone if the electric car takes over. > The auto > > maintenance industry would essentially end, which is probably > one factor in > > the amount of resistance (ha!) electric cars are getting from > the auto > > industry. > > > > If you're looking for excitement, the Prius is NOT where you > should be > > looking. Try the Tesla Roadster http://www.teslamotors.com/ > What's not to > > like about 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and 130+ MPH top speed? Or check > out the > > ELIICA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliica Although a concept > car, I just > > saw a special on it on Discovery Channel. It did 320 kph on the > track, and > > its acceleration was far better than a Subaru WRX. There are > some very > > exciting electric cars on the horizon. > > > > /John > > > > PS: Incidentally, I'm a gun-totin' pilot as well. In fact, on > all the gun > > boards, my sigline is "Armed Pilot!" Sadly there is no political > party for a > > libertarian like myself. I'm adamantly pro-gun AND pro-choice, > which makes > > me welcome on neither side of the fence. > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145958#145958 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ! > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > * > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > * > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:50 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs Please send your pictures to nico@cybersuperstore.com Thanks Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 10:18 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs Three or four anyway. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:07 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs If you guys would be interested in purchasing Commander Mugs, I'll make a couple. I'd like to have an idea of quantity because there are fixed costs etc. Let me know, guys. Thanks for the plug, Steve. They are really nice. Nico www.faithmugs.com _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:16 PM Subject: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs After all the political hooey of a week or so ago, I went to Nico's site looking for clues as to what makes the right tick. I knew he made mugs with sayings on them, and seemed one of the more thoughtful. The first coffee mug I clicked on was the Beatitudes. I read a message of peace, justice and mercy. I'm not a religious man, and was not raised Christian. But I bought a mug anyway. Whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, or evil secular humanist; it's hard to argue with the message. I later found out the Beatitudes are among my wife's favorites. The 'Wisdom' mug, also had some good stuff on it. Nico tossed one into my order, being the decent guy that he is. I'd like to give a plug to his company. (I REALLY DON'T want to start any political debate here.) The mugs make nice gifts. Can we get a mug with a Commander on them? Happy Hanukkah! Steve http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:05 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs I am thinking about doing them in two sizes, the 11 oz and 15 oz and perhaps on travel mugs. We'll play it by ear and see what gives us the best product mix. I'll keep you guys posted on the development. The first order of business would be to get the designs going. Getting them onto the mugs is the easy part. Thanks Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of W J R HAMILTON Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 3:28 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs Nico, Put me down for at least two "generic" mugs --- what size are they going to be? Cheers, Bill Hamilton ZK-DCF _____ At 05:17 9/12/2007, you wrote: Three or four anyway. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:07 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs If you guys would be interested in purchasing Commander Mugs, I=12ll make a couple. I=12d like to have an idea of quantity because there are fixed costs etc. Let me know, guys. Thanks for the plug, Steve. They are really nice. Nico www.faithmugs.com _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [ mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Steve W Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:16 PM Subject: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs After all the political hooey of a week or so ago, I went to Nico's site looking for clues as to what makes the right tick. I knew he made mugs with sayings on them, and seemed one of the more thoughtful. The first coffee mug I clicked on was the Beatitudes. I read a message of peace, justice and mercy. I'm not a religious man, and was not raised Christian. But I bought a mug anyway. Whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, or evil secular humanist; it's hard to argue with the message. I later found out the Beatitudes are among my wife's favorites. The 'Wisdom' mug, also had some good stuff on it. Nico tossed one into my order, being the decent guy that he is. I'd like to give a plug to his company. (I REALLY DON'T want to start any political debate here.) The mugs make nice gifts. Can we get a mug with a Commander on them? Happy Hanukkah! Steve http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com href=" http://www.matronics.com/contribution "> http://www.matronics.com/chref =" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href=" http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:36 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs Email them to me at nico@cybersuperstore.com Thanks Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 8:45 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs Nico; How do you suggest we send you our photo's Don ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 10:00 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs I had a fairly good response for Commander mugs, thanks guys. Some requested to see them before we put them into a kiln - I think that would be prudent, so I'll mock up some designs and have you folks pick the best (perhaps a competition?) and then we will burn those. My gut-feel tells me they should be of original design, so perhaps we could use our own pictures, what do you say? We can manufacture one-offs, too, and personalize them. Just a thought. So, if you have a favorite picture you would like to see on a coffee mug (mug on a mug?) send them to me, so we can start evaluating the product. Say a generic range and one-offs for personalized ones. Thanks Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Myron Ashley Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 5:57 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs I would take 6. Myron Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:07 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs If you guys would be interested in purchasing Commander Mugs, I'll make a couple. I'd like to have an idea of quantity because there are fixed costs etc. Let me know, guys. Thanks for the plug, Steve. They are really nice. Nico www.faithmugs.com _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:16 PM Subject: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs After all the political hooey of a week or so ago, I went to Nico's site looking for clues as to what makes the right tick. I knew he made mugs with sayings on them, and seemed one of the more thoughtful. The first coffee mug I clicked on was the Beatitudes. I read a message of peace, justice and mercy. I'm not a religious man, and was not raised Christian. But I bought a mug anyway. Whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, or evil secular humanist; it's hard to argue with the message. I later found out the Beatitudes are among my wife's favorites. The 'Wisdom' mug, also had some good stuff on it. Nico tossed one into my order, being the decent guy that he is. I'd like to give a plug to his company. (I REALLY DON'T want to start any political debate here.) The mugs make nice gifts. Can we get a mug with a Commander on them? Happy Hanukkah! Steve http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _____ Release Date: 12/8/2007 11:59 AM ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:34 PM PST US From: W J R HAMILTON Subject: Re: Commander-List: electric car Folks, Interestingly, the Toyota Prius has about the same fuel consumption as the small Audi and VW 1.5lt TDI diesels, both city, country and combined cycle fuel consumption tests. For any vehicle, the on road costs are only part of the story, the power source for the recharging, and the battery material/cost/life/disposal is seldom included in the assessment of electric vehicles. What will make a difference is if natural gas powered power cells to produce the charge mature as a technology. Rechargeable (with methanol, I think) power cells are already available in small sized for things like laptop computers. Natural gas powered power cells are available here (in non-commercial quantity and quality) to recharge electric powered car batteries. An interesting substitute for petroleum based fuels is hydrogen, BMW is already selling H powered cars in Germany, the exhaust is water. If the H comes from solar powered electrolysis, the cycle pollution load is effectively nil, from nuclear almost nil, and no CO/CO2/Methane at all. It won't be in my time, but expect aircraft to be one of the last forms of transport to use liquid petroleum fuels, however the liquid fuel is produced. Cheers, Bill Hamilton ZK-DCF ---------- At 15:48 9/12/2007, you wrote: > >Tesla is right up the road from me, and let me tell you, those cars >RIP. Torque curve is constant, so the 0-60 in 4 sec. also translates >to 70-130 in 4 sec. Pretty scary, eh? If they are actually good for >250 miles between charges, they'll probably sell quite a few. > >/J > >Victor C. Rupert wrote: >>If you are really interested in a decent electric this will thrill >>your pants off... And I drive an frame off resto '81Vette with a >>3/4 race cam for fun. ( I like Vettes that look like Vettes >>) http://www.teslamotors.com/ >> >>Check it out, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.