---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/09/07: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:35 PM - Re: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs (Robert Feldtman) 2. 05:44 PM - Re: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs (Robert Feldtman) 3. 06:05 PM - Re: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs (nico css) 4. 06:06 PM - Re: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs (nico css) 5. 06:34 PM - Re: electric car (yourtcfg@aol.com) 6. 07:03 PM - Re: electric car (John Vormbaum) 7. 08:45 PM - Re: electric car (Cate Chagnot) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:11 PM PST US From: "Robert Feldtman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs Nico - I plan to order 6 of the faith mugs - and would want some commander mugs, but first things first. I showed them to my wife and she asked if the y were "dishwasher safe?" I had some cool Desert Storm mugs that are now just plaine ol white mugs - chuckle. They got white like my hair did in the interim. LEt me know about the dishwasher issue and we'll do the faith order thru th e site and I'll email you about additional commander mugs. thanks for your inspirational product! bobf N500GW On 12/8/07, nico css wrote: > > Email them to me at nico@cybersuperstore.com > Thanks > Nico > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Don > *Sent:* Saturday, December 08, 2007 8:45 AM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs > > Nico; > > How do you suggest we send you our photo's > > Don > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* nico css > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Saturday, December 08, 2007 10:00 AM > *Subject:* RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs > > I had a fairly good response for Commander mugs, thanks guys. Some > requested to see them before we put them into a kiln - I think that would be > prudent, so I'll mock up some designs and have you folks pick the best > (perhaps a competition?) and then we will burn those. My gut-feel tells m e > they should be of original design, so perhaps we could use our own pictur es, > what do you say? We can manufacture one-offs, too, and personalize them. > Just a thought. So, if you have a favorite picture you would like to see on > a coffee mug (mug on a mug?) send them to me, so we can start evaluating the > product. Say a generic range and one-offs for personalized ones. > > Thanks > Nico > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Myron Ashley > *Sent:* Saturday, December 08, 2007 5:57 AM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs > > I would take 6. > Myron Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* nico css > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:07 PM > *Subject:* RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs > > If you guys would be interested in purchasing Commander Mugs, I'll make a > couple. I'd like to have an idea of quantity because there are fixed cost s > etc. Let me know, guys. > > > Thanks for the plug, Steve. They are really nice. > > > Nico > > www.faithmugs.com > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve W > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:16 PM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs > > > After all the political hooey of a week or so ago, I went to Nico's site > looking for clues as to what makes the right tick. I knew he made mugs wi th > sayings on them, and seemed one of the more thoughtful. > > > The first coffee mug I clicked on was the Beatitudes. I read a message of > peace, justice and mercy. I'm not a religious man, and was not raised > Christian. But I bought a mug anyway. Whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, or > evil secular humanist; it's hard to argue with the message. I later found > out the Beatitudes are among my wife's favorites. The 'Wisdom' mug, also had > some good stuff on it. Nico tossed one into my order, being the decent gu y > that he is. > > > I'd like to give a plug to his company. (I REALLY DON'T want to start any > political debate here.) The mugs make nice gifts. Can we get a mug with a > Commander on them? > > > Happy Hanukkah! > > > Steve > > > * * > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.co m/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com* > > * href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.co m/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com* > > * href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.co m/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com* > > ------------------------------ > Release Date: 12/8/2007 11:59 AM > > * href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.co m/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com* > ======================== * > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:55 PM PST US From: "Robert Feldtman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs Nico - one other ting - Microwave safe? we drink a lot of coffee and warm i t up in the nucklear machine! bobf On 12/8/07, nico css wrote: > > Email them to me at nico@cybersuperstore.com > Thanks > Nico > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Don > *Sent:* Saturday, December 08, 2007 8:45 AM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs > > Nico; > > How do you suggest we send you our photo's > > Don > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* nico css > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Saturday, December 08, 2007 10:00 AM > *Subject:* RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs > > I had a fairly good response for Commander mugs, thanks guys. Some > requested to see them before we put them into a kiln - I think that would be > prudent, so I'll mock up some designs and have you folks pick the best > (perhaps a competition?) and then we will burn those. My gut-feel tells m e > they should be of original design, so perhaps we could use our own pictur es, > what do you say? We can manufacture one-offs, too, and personalize them. > Just a thought. So, if you have a favorite picture you would like to see on > a coffee mug (mug on a mug?) send them to me, so we can start evaluating the > product. Say a generic range and one-offs for personalized ones. > > Thanks > Nico > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Myron Ashley > *Sent:* Saturday, December 08, 2007 5:57 AM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs > > I would take 6. > Myron Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* nico css > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:07 PM > *Subject:* RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs > > If you guys would be interested in purchasing Commander Mugs, I'll make a > couple. I'd like to have an idea of quantity because there are fixed cost s > etc. Let me know, guys. > > > Thanks for the plug, Steve. They are really nice. > > > Nico > > www.faithmugs.com > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve W > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:16 PM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs > > > After all the political hooey of a week or so ago, I went to Nico's site > looking for clues as to what makes the right tick. I knew he made mugs wi th > sayings on them, and seemed one of the more thoughtful. > > > The first coffee mug I clicked on was the Beatitudes. I read a message of > peace, justice and mercy. I'm not a religious man, and was not raised > Christian. But I bought a mug anyway. Whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, or > evil secular humanist; it's hard to argue with the message. I later found > out the Beatitudes are among my wife's favorites. The 'Wisdom' mug, also had > some good stuff on it. Nico tossed one into my order, being the decent gu y > that he is. > > > I'd like to give a plug to his company. (I REALLY DON'T want to start any > political debate here.) The mugs make nice gifts. Can we get a mug with a > Commander on them? > > > Happy Hanukkah! > > > Steve > > > * * > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.co m/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com* > > * href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.co m/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com* > > * href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.co m/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com* > > ------------------------------ > Release Date: 12/8/2007 11:59 AM > > * href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.co m/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com* > ======================== * > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:21 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs Yup, that too. The nucklear machine makes no impression on them. :-) _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Feldtman Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 5:44 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs Nico - one other ting - Microwave safe? we drink a lot of coffee and warm it up in the nucklear machine! bobf On 12/8/07, nico css < nico@cybersuperstore.com > wrote: Email them to me at nico@cybersuperstore.com Thanks Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Don Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 8:45 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs Nico; How do you suggest we send you our photo's Don ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 10:00 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs I had a fairly good response for Commander mugs, thanks guys. Some requested to see them before we put them into a kiln - I think that would be prudent, so I'll mock up some designs and have you folks pick the best (perhaps a competition?) and then we will burn those. My gut-feel tells me they should be of original design, so perhaps we could use our own pictures, what do you say? We can manufacture one-offs, too, and personalize them. Just a thought. So, if you have a favorite picture you would like to see on a coffee mug (mug on a mug?) send them to me, so we can start evaluating the product. Say a generic range and one-offs for personalized ones. Thanks Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Myron Ashley Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 5:57 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs I would take 6. Myron Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:07 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs If you guys would be interested in purchasing Commander Mugs, I'll make a couple. I'd like to have an idea of quantity because there are fixed costs etc. Let me know, guys. Thanks for the plug, Steve. They are really nice. Nico www.faithmugs.com _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:16 PM Subject: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs After all the political hooey of a week or so ago, I went to Nico's site looking for clues as to what makes the right tick. I knew he made mugs with sayings on them, and seemed one of the more thoughtful. The first coffee mug I clicked on was the Beatitudes. I read a message of peace, justice and mercy. I'm not a religious man, and was not raised Christian. But I bought a mug anyway. Whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, or evil secular humanist; it's hard to argue with the message. I later found out the Beatitudes are among my wife's favorites. The 'Wisdom' mug, also had some good stuff on it. Nico tossed one into my order, being the decent guy that he is. I'd like to give a plug to his company. (I REALLY DON'T want to start any political debate here.) The mugs make nice gifts. Can we get a mug with a Commander on them? Happy Hanukkah! Steve http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander -List ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href=" http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href=" http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref=" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com"> http://forums.matronics.com href=" http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref=" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com"> http://forums.matronics.com _____ Release Date: 12/8/2007 11:59 AM href=" http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander -List ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href=" http://forums.matronics.com"> D======================== ========= D======================== ========= D======================== ========= D======================== ========= ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:41 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs Yes, Bob, they are dishwasher safe. We have been using them for over a year and they are still as crisp as when they were new. Thanks Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Feldtman Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 5:34 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs Nico - I plan to order 6 of the faith mugs - and would want some commander mugs, but first things first. I showed them to my wife and she asked if they were "dishwasher safe?" I had some cool Desert Storm mugs that are now just plaine ol white mugs - chuckle. They got white like my hair did in the interim. LEt me know about the dishwasher issue and we'll do the faith order thru the site and I'll email you about additional commander mugs. thanks for your inspirational product! bobf N500GW On 12/8/07, nico css wrote: Email them to me at nico@cybersuperstore.com Thanks Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Don Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 8:45 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs Nico; How do you suggest we send you our photo's Don ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 10:00 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs I had a fairly good response for Commander mugs, thanks guys. Some requested to see them before we put them into a kiln - I think that would be prudent, so I'll mock up some designs and have you folks pick the best (perhaps a competition?) and then we will burn those. My gut-feel tells me they should be of original design, so perhaps we could use our own pictures, what do you say? We can manufacture one-offs, too, and personalize them. Just a thought. So, if you have a favorite picture you would like to see on a coffee mug (mug on a mug?) send them to me, so we can start evaluating the product. Say a generic range and one-offs for personalized ones. Thanks Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Myron Ashley Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 5:57 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs I would take 6. Myron Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:07 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs If you guys would be interested in purchasing Commander Mugs, I'll make a couple. I'd like to have an idea of quantity because there are fixed costs etc. Let me know, guys. Thanks for the plug, Steve. They are really nice. Nico www.faithmugs.com _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:16 PM Subject: Commander-List: Off Topic: Nico's Mugs After all the political hooey of a week or so ago, I went to Nico's site looking for clues as to what makes the right tick. I knew he made mugs with sayings on them, and seemed one of the more thoughtful. The first coffee mug I clicked on was the Beatitudes. I read a message of peace, justice and mercy. I'm not a religious man, and was not raised Christian. But I bought a mug anyway. Whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, or evil secular humanist; it's hard to argue with the message. I later found out the Beatitudes are among my wife's favorites. The 'Wisdom' mug, also had some good stuff on it. Nico tossed one into my order, being the decent guy that he is. I'd like to give a plug to his company. (I REALLY DON'T want to start any political debate here.) The mugs make nice gifts. Can we get a mug with a Commander on them? Happy Hanukkah! Steve http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander -List ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href=" http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href=" http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref=" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com"> http://forums.matronics.com href=" http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref=" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com"> http://forums.matronics.com _____ Release Date: 12/8/2007 11:59 AM href=" http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander -List ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href=" http://forums.matronics.com"> D======================== ========= D======================== ========= D======================== ========= D======================== ========= ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: electric car From: yourtcfg@aol.com Cool!!!? I have a 1979, 4sp survivor, it is Corvette #13 for me, and the newest one I have owned.? jb And I drive an frame off resto '81Vette with a 3/4 race cam for fun -----Original Message----- From: Victor C. Rupert Sent: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 8:18 pm Subject: Commander-List: electric car If you are really interested in a decent electric this will thrill your pants off...? And I drive an frame off resto '81Vette with a 3/4 race cam for fun.? ( I like Vettes that look like Vettes )? ? http://www.teslamotors.com/ ? Check it out, ? Victor ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve W Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 12:15 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream Jim, ? I don't think it's a one to one trade-off. All things being equal, the electric powered vehicle should be vastly more efficient than its gas powered cousin. True, you still need energy to drive them, but for a given distance the thing should just use a lot less of it wherever that energy comes from. I don't imagine it can be as rewarding as a 427 sucking through the secondaries, or even a hyper-four coming on cam, but I guess I should reserve judgement till I ride in something other than a stock Pious. ? Steve ? ----- Original Message ----- From: yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 12:23 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream It still takes energy to charge the stinking?things, and since we get most (75%) from burning?coal, what is the difference? If they would let us build new nuke power plants to charge them, maybe.? Na, I dont think even then? :-)? jb Electric cars are coming. But they're not going to replace gas powered cars anytime soon. That's my opinion anyway. -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum Sent: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 9:52 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream ? Well, the auto websites are rife with conspiracies about big oil & Detroit quashing electric cars. Electric cars mean no oil changes, no air filters, no spark plugs, etc....just wheel bearings & tires essentially, maybe with the occasional motor or battery being replaced. A whole sub-industry, maintenance and parts, would essentially be gone. Of course, the conspiracy nuts are imagining going all electric overnight. In reality it would probably take 30+ years to get there, so your piston business would be healthy for years to come.? ? The wackiest thing I've seen on that is the "Who Killed the Electric Car" special about the Buick EV1. GM bought ALL of them back and ran them through a crusher despite the best efforts of the owners (all lessees) to keep them. It was GM, plus Chevron, plus the US Gov't. all conspiring to make sure that this great car didn't revolutionize the world. In truth, it was a good car, but had some issues including crappy range.? ? Electric cars are coming. But they're not going to replace gas powered cars anytime soon. That's my opinion anyway.? ? /J? ? Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote:? >? > John,? >? > As a piston manufacturer that thought had not occurred to me. Resistance?? >? > Moe? > N680RR? > 680F(p)? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com? > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John? > Vormbaum? > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:06 AM? > To: commander-list@matronics.com? > Subject: Commander-List: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream? >? >? > Steve,? >? > I'm with you! Luckily for me it's a hobby, so I enjoy turning wrenches. That? > opportunity will be all but gone if the electric car takes over. The auto? > maintenance industry would essentially end, which is probably one factor in? > the amount of resistance (ha!) electric cars are getting from the auto? > industry.? >? > If you're looking for excitement, the Prius is NOT where you should be? > looking. Try the Tesla Roadster http://www.teslamotors.com/ What's not to? > like about 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and 130+ MPH top speed? Or check out the? > ELIICA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliica Although a concept car, I just? > saw a special on it on Discovery Channel. It did 320 kph on the track, and? > its acceleration was far better than a Subaru WRX. There are some very? > exciting electric cars on the horizon.? >? > /John? >? > PS: Incidentally, I'm a gun-totin' pilot as well. In fact, on all the gun? > boards, my sigline is "Armed Pilot!" Sadly there is no political party for a? > libertarian like myself. I'm adamantly pro-gun AND pro-choice, which makes? > me welcome on neither side of the fence.? >? >? >? >? > Read this topic online here:? >? > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145958#145958? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? > ? ? ? href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:09 PM PST US From: John Vormbaum Subject: Re: Commander-List: electric car Bill, I agree with you that MPG is only part of the story. The carbon footprint of manufacturing Priuses is far larger, I think, than you would expect. Especially considering that as you mentioned, you can get far better performance while sacrificing none of the efficiency by buying the little Audi or VW. Hydrogen in my mind will be a long time coming as a mass-consumed fuel, simply due to the difficulty of creating the new infrastructure. That and the fact that in the short run at least, solar-powered electrolysis and dedicated nuke-powered electrolysis is a long time away; which means that hydrogen will be produced using electricity produced from petroleum-burning powerplants.....so you end up with the same environmental problems, although at a higher efficiency. Methanol fuel cells sound better; methanol by itself as a fuel is a stopgap measure at best, as CO2 is still a byproduct (or is it CO) of its combustion, and you have all the power/range problems that oil cured. Just my $0.02, and worth every bit of what you all paid for it :-). /J W J R HAMILTON wrote: > Folks, > Interestingly, the Toyota Prius has about the same fuel consumption as > the small Audi and VW 1.5lt TDI diesels, both city, country and > combined cycle fuel consumption tests. > For any vehicle, the on road costs are only part of the story, the > power source for the recharging, and the battery > material/cost/life/disposal is seldom included in the assessment of > electric vehicles. What will make a difference is if natural gas > powered power cells to produce the charge mature as a technology. > Rechargeable (with methanol, I think) power cells are already > available in small sized for things like laptop computers. Natural gas > powered power cells are available here (in non-commercial quantity and > quality) to recharge electric powered car batteries. > An interesting substitute for petroleum based fuels is hydrogen, BMW > is already selling H powered cars in Germany, the exhaust is water. If > the H comes from solar powered electrolysis, the cycle pollution load > is effectively nil, from nuclear almost nil, and no CO/CO2/Methane at all. > It won't be in my time, but expect aircraft to be one of the last > forms of transport to use liquid petroleum fuels, however the liquid > fuel is produced. > Cheers, > Bill Hamilton > ZK-DCF > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > At 15:48 9/12/2007, you wrote: >> >> Tesla is right up the road from me, and let me tell you, those cars >> RIP. Torque curve is constant, so the 0-60 in 4 sec. also translates >> to 70-130 in 4 sec. Pretty scary, eh? If they are actually good for >> 250 miles between charges, they'll probably sell quite a few. >> >> /J >> >> Victor C. Rupert wrote: >>> If you are really interested in a decent electric this will thrill >>> your pants off... And I drive an frame off resto '81Vette with a >>> 3/4 race cam for fun. ( I like Vettes that look like Vettes ) >>> http://www.teslamotors.com/ >>> >>> Check it out, > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:29 PM PST US Subject: Commander-List: Re: electric car From: "Cate Chagnot" Hi Guys, I made a presentation last Thursday in Cheonju, South Korea at a renewable energy conference. One of the presenters was from a lab in Germany that has really advanced development of direct methane fuel cells. >From what I can remember about the presentation the cost is running around $8000/kilowatt for 1 to 2 kilowatt models and they're still having problems with life of the fuel cell with recent versions running around 2000 hours before the cell has to be replaced. Advancements are bound to come but they weren't addressing the cost of fuel production, nor it's distribution. I can't remember exactly what the efficiencies were but I think they're in the low 20% range if that. I think it'll be awhile before we see practical fuel cells powering vehicles. Solar cells have bottomed out around $3 /watt and once you add the installation and electronics cost it's around $6/watt. The argument for electric cars has to take in to account how the electricity is produced and at what cost. The cars themselves are non polluting but if you're using a coal fired plant to produce the electricity then you're just shifting the pollution elsewhere (out of sight, out of mind?). If you use smaller, localized biomass burning power plants to produce the electricity then not only do you have 'net-zero' CO2 production (what you put into the atmosphere comes out to grow the plant material) but you can take advantage of the reject heat of power production in a CHP cycle to increase your overall efficiency of energy usage. -------- Cate N4278S 680E Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151404#151404 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.