Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:21 AM - Re: FW: Gastwick B-777 Info (Steve at Col-East)
2. 09:05 AM - FW: Latest info on BA 38 (JTAddington)
3. 09:21 AM - Re: Need Propellers for 680F (Moe - Ross Racing Pistons)
4. 09:39 AM - Re: Need Propellers for 680F (JTAddington)
5. 11:02 PM - Official Commander-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
6. 11:03 PM - Official Commander-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: FW: Gastwick B-777 Info |
Put into terms a piston driver could understand, you kerosene burners
monitor enroute fuel temps as a flight parameter? -37c seems like it
must be quite common?
Higher Mach number because of lower altitude?
----- Original Message -----
From: W J R HAMILTON
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Gastwick B-777 Info
Folks,
Anybody interested can download the progressive reports from the UK
at
http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/latest_news/accident_to_boeing_777_236__g_ymmm
__at_heathrow_airport_on_17_january_2008___initial_report_update.cfm
As a matter of interest, the air masses over Russia/CIS/Eastern Europe
were particularly cold that morning, aircraft were having to come as low
as FL250, and maintain higher than LRC Mach No. to maintain fuel temps.
warmer then -37C.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
At 14:13 1/02/2008, you wrote:
I got this from a friend and thought you would like it.
Jim
Subject: Gastwick B-777 Info
I recently received this from a Retied DL Colleague. I do not know
the identity of the author. I have done some small bit of editing for my
non pilot friends.
Ken
Heard from a friend regarding the U.K. 777 crash. As I recall this
aircraft had Trent engines built by Rolls Royce.
******************************
*********************************
This is part of a message forwarded to me:
Had the pleasure of chatting with a member of the NTSB board last
night at dinner. Here is what he shared. Aircraft was at 600 ft agl
(Above Ground Level ) when the right engine (RPM) started to roll back
to slightly above flight
idle.
The First Officer was flying and auto throttles were engaged. The
auto throttles moved the throttles up to catch the deceleration in
airspeed. The right engine did not respond to the movement of the auto
throttles. The First Officer disengaged the auto throttles and manually
moved both throttles to max power as the Captain joined him and they
both applied emergency power. Within 8 seconds of the right engine
rolling back to just above flight idle the left engine did the exact
same thing. The engines never changed RPM from that point till ground
contact. The F/O continued flying and kept nibbling on the stick shaker
to clear a hill just prior to the impact point. Apparently the crew is
being hailed as heroes for their performance.
The two areas under investigation are fuel that was uplifted in
China. Ice in the fuel is a consideration and they are running chemical
test at this time. The other area is engine software. So far they can
confirm that everything from the throttles to the ECC's worked as it
should. Its the info from the ECC's to the fuel controller that is in
question. This aircraft had just had a software update 2 days earlier
Message 2
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| Subject: | FW: Latest info on BA 38 |
Here is another thing on the B-777.
Subject: Latest info on BA 38
Here is the official information to date.
From: Manager, Seattle Aircraft Certification Office (ACO), ANM-100S and
Manager,
Engine Certification Office, ANE-140
Propeller Directorate, ANE-100
Prepared by: Doug Pegors, Seattle ACO, ANM-102S
Subject: INFORMATION: British Airways Flight 38, Boeing 777 Accident,
London,
England
New Information as of January 24, 2008:
Internal inspections of the fuel tanks were started today. The only
anomalies were a loose Bnut
on a sensor line for the fuel scavenge system and a plastic scrapper near a
suction feed port.
These findings are not significant. Fuel sample analysis continues to show
the fuel is within
specification.
The investigation continues to look broadly for a cause of the dual engine
rollbacks. Fuel
exhaustion is the only item that has been positively ruled out. Aspects that
the FAA believes
the investigation is concentrating on are:
. Ice in the fuel somehow limiting the fuel flow to the engines. A
maintenance message
indicating excessive water in the center tank was set during taxi on the two
previous
flight legs, although it cleared itself both times. The airplane was being
operated in a
high humidity, cold environment, conducive to ice formation.
. Small-sized contamination building up in the engine fuel systems somehow
limited the
fuel flow to engine. All the fuel samples have tested for contamination of
larger
particles (sizes outside the fuel specification). Testing has been started
looking for
small particles (greater than 5 microns).
. Engine hardware failures sending inaccurate data to the engine electronic
control
(EEC) causing the EEC to demand insufficient fuel. A preliminary review of
the EEC
data from the right engine shows erratic combustor inlet pressure (P30). A
leaking P30
sense line could cause this, or the EEC receiving a higher than actual fuel
flow
parameter.
INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN IS BASED ON PRELIMINARY
REPORTS AND IS SUBJECT TO REVISION.
PUBLIC AVAILABILITY TO BE DETERMINED UNDER
5 U.S.C. 552
FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
. Software coding problem in the EEC causing the EEC to demand insufficient
fuel.
British Airways installed a new engine EEC software revision in December
2007. The
software was approved in May 2006. There were several changes to the
software as
part of the revision. Two items seem remotely related to the accident:
improvements
to low power stall recovery logic and fan keep out zones for ground
maintenance.
The first two items would be related to a part 25 compliance issue, while
the last two items
would be related to a part 33 compliance issue.
As stated yesterday in this briefing paper, the electrical system anomalies
noted earlier have
been resolved, as describe below, and the conclusion now is that the
electrical buses were
powered until impact and performing as expected.
. The auxiliary power unit (APU) began its auto start sequence, even though
the buses
were still powered. In the days following the event, the flight crew has
added
additional details to their report. The crew now believes they turned the
APU on prior
to impact. There was sufficient time before the impact for the APU inlet
door to open,
but not for the APU fuel pump to turn on or the APU engine to start spooling
up.
. The quick access recorder (QAR) saved data and shut down approximately 45
seconds
prior to impact. The QAR saves data in batches. It is believed the QAR was
working
properly and was in the process of saving data when impact occurred,
accounting for
the "lost" 45 seconds of data.
. The fuel crossfeed valves were closed in flight according to the flight
crew, but the
switches were found in the open position and only one valve was open. In the
days
following the event, the flight crew has added additional details to their
report. The
crew now believes they opened the valves just prior to impact and the
airplane lost
power before both valves moved to the open position.
. The ram air turbine (RAT) was found deployed, even though the buses were
still
powered. It did not deploy until after the airplane came to a stop, as
determined by the
pristine condition of the turbine blades. The RAT either deployed due to
electrical
power loss during impact with a failed air/ground signal or the impact
unlatched the
RAT door.
New Information as of January 23, 2008:
Ms. McCormick has finished her review of the crashworthiness of the airplane
and is coming
home tomorrow. Gary Horan, an engine controls expert from the Engine and
Propeller
Directorate, is going to London tomorrow at the NTSB's request. Boeing has
drafted a
message to all operators of the 777 airplanes, and is still waiting for
approval from the Air
Accident Investigation Branch of the United Kingdom to send it out.
Electrical system: The electrical system anomalies noted earlier have been
resolved, and the
conclusion now is that the electrical buses were powered until impact and
performing as
expected.
INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN IS BASED ON PRELIMINARY
REPORTS AND IS SUBJECT TO REVISION.
PUBLIC AVAILABILITY TO BE DETERMINED UNDER
5 U.S.C. 552
FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
Fuel system: Leads regarding water in the fuel and fuel contamination are
continuing to be
investigated. Fuel testing looking for small-sized contaminants (5 microns)
is beginning. The
tanks are still being drained and the team hopes to start evaluating the
fuel system hardware
tomorrow.
Engines: Component testing and teardown of the engine-driven fuel pumps and
the fuel
metering units is planned for later this week. The data from the electronic
engine controls is
still being analyzed. Rolls-Royce is planning an engine test, unscheduled as
yet, to try and
duplicate the rollbacks.
New Information as of January 22, 2008:
The airplane has been moved to a hanger, and the team is now working near
the airplane.
Fuel system: The post crash fuel leak came from the right engine; the main
tanks were intact.
There was a message of water in the center fuel tank shortly after departure
from Beijing. The
fuel was being drained from the tanks today. Hardware analysis should begin
tomorrow.
Engines: A preliminary review of electronic engine control data from the
right engine shows
parameters indicating impending engine stall. It has not been determined yet
if these items
indicate a fuel system or engine stability issue. Data from the left engine
has not yet been
reviewed.
Crashworthiness: Ms. McCormick is documenting the condition of the cabin.
Information
from cabin crew and passenger questionnaires indicate that the evacuation
bell was faint, but
the evacuation light was seen and the captain's message to evacuate over the
passenger address
system was heard. Preliminary data indicates that the descent rate at impact
was roughly 30
ft/sec. Dynamic seat requirements that became effective at the introduction
of the Model 777
series airplanes require seats protect occupants for hard landing impact up
to 35 ft/sec. The
passenger with the broken leg was sitting next to the point where the right
main landing gear
punctured the fuselage and pushed into the cabin (pictured below).
New Information as of January 19, 2008:
INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN IS BASED ON PRELIMINARY
REPORTS AND IS SUBJECT TO REVISION.
PUBLIC AVAILABILITY TO BE DETERMINED UNDER
5 U.S.C. 552
FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
Ms. Langsted spent the day at the airplane. Ms. McCormick reviewed the crew
interview
reports. The airplane has not been moved from the runway yet. The airplane
is considered a
hull loss.
Crashworthiness: There was only one serious injury, a compound fracture to
the leg. The
airplane landed on the main gear, bounced, came back down on the gear, then
the gear failed,
and the engines supported weight of the airplane. The descent rate at
landing was 1500-1800
feet per minute. One of the main landing gear swung around and pushed
slightly into the
cabin. The other punctured the center fuel tank (empty) leaving a
1-by-2-foot hole. The report
of a fuel leak is unconfirmed. All the slides deployed and the doors worked.
Some passengers
had to shuffle down the slides due to the slight angle. The flight deck door
opened on its own
during the landing. Some oxygen masks dropped.
Engines: No indication as yet of why engines rolled back. They ingested
grass and dirt during
the landing. One engine had recently had the electronic engine control (EEC)
replaced due to
indicated faults. The EECs have been removed from the engine to have the
memory read.
Fuel system: No indication as yet that the fuel system was not providing
fuel to the engines.
Center fuel tank was empty, and the main fuel tanks had a quantity of fuel
in the tons. The
spar valves were open until the pilots pulled the fire handle just prior to
evacuating the airplane
(normal). The fuel crossfeed valves were closed in flight (normal) according
to the flight crew,
but the switches were found in the open position and only one valve was
open. All fuel boost
pumps were on and indicating high pressure (normal). The engine fuel filters
have been
removed for analysis. Several fuel samples from this airplane and other
airplanes coming in
from Beijing have been analyzed with no significant findings. The fuel
temperature indicated
in flight was as low as -34 degrees Celsius, although its proper functioning
is being questioned.
Electrical System: Although the electrical buses seemed to have been powered
through the
landing, there were several electrical anomalies close in time with the
engine rollbacks. The
auxiliary power unit began its auto start sequence, and the quick access
recorder saved data and
shut down. There were also the unexpected fuel valve positions mentioned
earlier. The flight
data recorder was powered through the landing.
New Information as of January 18, 2008:
Sue McCormick and Margaret Langsted arrived at Heathrow in the afternoon
London time and
met with Bill English (NTSB), Carol Horgan (NTSB), Steve Magladry (NTSB), TR
Proven
(FAA), for a quick briefing.
At about 700 ft AGL, the auto throttle commanded engine acceleration. One
engine started to
rollback during and the other engine started to accelerate then 8-10 seconds
later began to roll
back. Once the flight crew noticed, they pushed the throttles up and the
engines' EECs
responded but the engines did not. It appears that no fuel was getting to
the engines. There
was adequate fuel on the airplane. Fuel sample tests are not complete. No
one from this group
INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN IS BASED ON PRELIMINARY
REPORTS AND IS SUBJECT TO REVISION.
PUBLIC AVAILABILITY TO BE DETERMINED UNDER
5 U.S.C. 552
FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
of investigators has been on board the airplane. The airplane has been
released to the operator
and we assume they will move it tonight.
January 17, 2008
Background:
On January 17, 2008, at approximately 1242 (GMT), a British Airways Boeing
777, operating
as Flight 38 from Beijing, China to London, England with 152 people on
board, landed short of
the runway at Heathrow International Airport. The airplane skidded in the
grassy runway
overrun area resulting in substantial structural damage and came to rest at
the approach end of
the runway. There was no fire, and the airplane was successfully evacuated
with only minor
injuries reported. The captain stated that at 400ft on a stabilized
approach, the power on both
engines simultaneously rolled back. Weather does not appear to be a factor.
An investigation team including members from the National Transportation
Safety Board
(NTSB), Boeing, FAA Aircraft Accident Investigation, and the Seattle ACO
will be leaving
Thursday evening. An accident investigator from Boeing happened to be in
London on other
business and is currently at the accident site. The Seattle ACO in sending a
propulsion and a
cabin safety engineering specialist to participate in the investigation. The
cabin safety
specialist will help assess the factors that contributed to the successful
protection and egress of
the aircraft's occupants.
Airplane Configuration Data:
The aircraft is a Boeing Model 777-200, Serial Number 30314, registration
G-YMMM,
operated by British Airways. The airplane was delivered May 31, 2001 and had
accumulated
22,046 hours and 3,181 cycles and is powered by two Rolls-Royce (RR) Trent
895 engines.
The engines were last overhauled approximately one year ago at the
Roll-Royce facility in
Derby, United Kingdom (UK).
The Trent 895 is part of the Trent 800 series of engines which are high
by-pass, axial flow,
three spool turbofan engines, originally certified by the UK Civil Aviation
Authority (CAA)
and subsequently validated by the FAA in 1999. European Aviation Safety
Agency (EASA)
began oversight of the type design on behalf of the UK CAA in 2003. The
engine FAA type
certificate data sheet number is E00050EN.
Top 5 Operators of Boeing Model 777 series airplane:
Airline Number of Airplanes
Singapore Airlines 69
Emirates Airline 55
United Airlines 52
Air France 49
American Airlines 47
INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN IS BASED ON PRELIMINARY
REPORTS AND IS SUBJECT TO REVISION.
PUBLIC AVAILABILITY TO BE DETERMINED UNDER
5 U.S.C. 552
FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
777-200 Airworthiness Directives (ADs) (See Attachment 1)
Engine Information
Engine #1 Engine #2
Serial No. 51426 51359
Total engine hrs 15,700 24,247
Total engine cycles 1,928 3,412
The current IFSD rates for RR-powered 777's are as follows:
Worldwide fleet total IFSD rate - 0.0048 per 1,000 hrs. (RR data thru Sept
07)
Worldwide fleet basic IFSD rate - 0.0038 per 1,000 hrs. (RR data thru Sept
07)
Action Requested/Recommended:
Information only. This information is preliminary and is subject to change.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Need Propellers for 680F |
Randy,
Sorry to be a bit late to weigh in on your prop situation, however, as a
reminder, several years ago I spent more money to have my two overhauled
than two new new Hartzell props and hubs would have cost. The guys kept
finding more and more problems as the job progressed.
Regards
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Dettmer, AIA
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 10:57 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Need Propellers for 680F
Along with having to rebuild both of my engines for N6253X, I now need to do
some serious work on the props. Dave Teeters of Airmotive Specialties tells
me that I need new hubs and at least 3 new blades. Anybody out there have a
lead on parts for 680F props..?? Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Randy Dettmer, AIA
680F / N6253X
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
<http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/> http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
Message 4
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| Subject: | Need Propellers for 680F |
I went to NBAA six or seven years ago and there was an after market prop I
believe for the 500B, I don't know if they had an STC for your plane or not.
It would not fit my 500A so did not keep the name.
Jim
500A
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe - Ross
Racing Pistons
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 11:19 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Need Propellers for 680F
Randy,
Sorry to be a bit late to weigh in on your prop situation, however, as a
reminder, several years ago I spent more money to have my two overhauled
than two new new Hartzell props and hubs would have cost. The guys kept
finding more and more problems as the job progressed.
Regards
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Dettmer, AIA
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 10:57 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Need Propellers for 680F
Along with having to rebuild both of my engines for N6253X, I now need to do
some serious work on the props. Dave Teeters of Airmotive Specialties tells
me that I need new hubs and at least 3 new blades. Anybody out there have a
lead on parts for 680F props..?? Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Randy Dettmer, AIA
680F / N6253X
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
<http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/> http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/
Message 5
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| Subject: | Official Commander-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
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Matronics Email List Administrator
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*** List Member Information ***
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If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
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Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
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I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
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*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
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Recent messages posted to the Commander-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
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or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
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http://www.matronics.com/browselist/commander-list
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A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Commander-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
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*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
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In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
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One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
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*** List Archives ***
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A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Commander-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Commander-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Commander-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Commander-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Commander-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Commander-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Commander-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Commander-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Commander-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
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*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
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All messages posted to the Commander-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Commander
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**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
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You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
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*** File and Photo Share ***
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With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
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Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
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Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
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Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
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If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
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Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Commander-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Commander-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Commander-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Commander-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Commander-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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| Subject: | Official Commander-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Commander-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Commander-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Commander-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Commander-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Commander-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Commander-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Commander-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Commander-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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