---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 02/01/08: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:21 AM - Re: FW: Gastwick B-777 Info (Steve at Col-East) 2. 09:05 AM - FW: Latest info on BA 38 (JTAddington) 3. 09:21 AM - Re: Need Propellers for 680F (Moe - Ross Racing Pistons) 4. 09:39 AM - Re: Need Propellers for 680F (JTAddington) 5. 11:02 PM - Official Commander-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 6. 11:03 PM - Official Commander-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:19 AM PST US From: "Steve at Col-East" Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Gastwick B-777 Info Put into terms a piston driver could understand, you kerosene burners monitor enroute fuel temps as a flight parameter? -37c seems like it must be quite common? Higher Mach number because of lower altitude? ----- Original Message ----- From: W J R HAMILTON To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 2:19 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: Gastwick B-777 Info Folks, Anybody interested can download the progressive reports from the UK at http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/latest_news/accident_to_boeing_777_236__g_ymmm __at_heathrow_airport_on_17_january_2008___initial_report_update.cfm As a matter of interest, the air masses over Russia/CIS/Eastern Europe were particularly cold that morning, aircraft were having to come as low as FL250, and maintain higher than LRC Mach No. to maintain fuel temps. warmer then -37C. Cheers, Bill Hamilton ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- At 14:13 1/02/2008, you wrote: I got this from a friend and thought you would like it. Jim Subject: Gastwick B-777 Info I recently received this from a Retied DL Colleague. I do not know the identity of the author. I have done some small bit of editing for my non pilot friends. Ken Heard from a friend regarding the U.K. 777 crash. As I recall this aircraft had Trent engines built by Rolls Royce. ****************************** ********************************* This is part of a message forwarded to me: Had the pleasure of chatting with a member of the NTSB board last night at dinner. Here is what he shared. Aircraft was at 600 ft agl (Above Ground Level ) when the right engine (RPM) started to roll back to slightly above flight idle. The First Officer was flying and auto throttles were engaged. The auto throttles moved the throttles up to catch the deceleration in airspeed. The right engine did not respond to the movement of the auto throttles. The First Officer disengaged the auto throttles and manually moved both throttles to max power as the Captain joined him and they both applied emergency power. Within 8 seconds of the right engine rolling back to just above flight idle the left engine did the exact same thing. The engines never changed RPM from that point till ground contact. The F/O continued flying and kept nibbling on the stick shaker to clear a hill just prior to the impact point. Apparently the crew is being hailed as heroes for their performance. The two areas under investigation are fuel that was uplifted in China. Ice in the fuel is a consideration and they are running chemical test at this time. The other area is engine software. So far they can confirm that everything from the throttles to the ECC's worked as it should. Its the info from the ECC's to the fuel controller that is in question. This aircraft had just had a software update 2 days earlier ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:25 AM PST US From: "JTAddington" Subject: Commander-List: FW: Latest info on BA 38 Here is another thing on the B-777. Subject: Latest info on BA 38 Here is the official information to date. From: Manager, Seattle Aircraft Certification Office (ACO), ANM-100S and Manager, Engine Certification Office, ANE-140 Propeller Directorate, ANE-100 Prepared by: Doug Pegors, Seattle ACO, ANM-102S Subject: INFORMATION: British Airways Flight 38, Boeing 777 Accident, London, England New Information as of January 24, 2008: Internal inspections of the fuel tanks were started today. The only anomalies were a loose Bnut on a sensor line for the fuel scavenge system and a plastic scrapper near a suction feed port. These findings are not significant. Fuel sample analysis continues to show the fuel is within specification. The investigation continues to look broadly for a cause of the dual engine rollbacks. Fuel exhaustion is the only item that has been positively ruled out. Aspects that the FAA believes the investigation is concentrating on are: . Ice in the fuel somehow limiting the fuel flow to the engines. A maintenance message indicating excessive water in the center tank was set during taxi on the two previous flight legs, although it cleared itself both times. The airplane was being operated in a high humidity, cold environment, conducive to ice formation. . Small-sized contamination building up in the engine fuel systems somehow limited the fuel flow to engine. All the fuel samples have tested for contamination of larger particles (sizes outside the fuel specification). Testing has been started looking for small particles (greater than 5 microns). . Engine hardware failures sending inaccurate data to the engine electronic control (EEC) causing the EEC to demand insufficient fuel. A preliminary review of the EEC data from the right engine shows erratic combustor inlet pressure (P30). A leaking P30 sense line could cause this, or the EEC receiving a higher than actual fuel flow parameter. INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN IS BASED ON PRELIMINARY REPORTS AND IS SUBJECT TO REVISION. PUBLIC AVAILABILITY TO BE DETERMINED UNDER 5 U.S.C. 552 FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY . Software coding problem in the EEC causing the EEC to demand insufficient fuel. British Airways installed a new engine EEC software revision in December 2007. The software was approved in May 2006. There were several changes to the software as part of the revision. Two items seem remotely related to the accident: improvements to low power stall recovery logic and fan keep out zones for ground maintenance. The first two items would be related to a part 25 compliance issue, while the last two items would be related to a part 33 compliance issue. As stated yesterday in this briefing paper, the electrical system anomalies noted earlier have been resolved, as describe below, and the conclusion now is that the electrical buses were powered until impact and performing as expected. . The auxiliary power unit (APU) began its auto start sequence, even though the buses were still powered. In the days following the event, the flight crew has added additional details to their report. The crew now believes they turned the APU on prior to impact. There was sufficient time before the impact for the APU inlet door to open, but not for the APU fuel pump to turn on or the APU engine to start spooling up. . The quick access recorder (QAR) saved data and shut down approximately 45 seconds prior to impact. The QAR saves data in batches. It is believed the QAR was working properly and was in the process of saving data when impact occurred, accounting for the "lost" 45 seconds of data. . The fuel crossfeed valves were closed in flight according to the flight crew, but the switches were found in the open position and only one valve was open. In the days following the event, the flight crew has added additional details to their report. The crew now believes they opened the valves just prior to impact and the airplane lost power before both valves moved to the open position. . The ram air turbine (RAT) was found deployed, even though the buses were still powered. It did not deploy until after the airplane came to a stop, as determined by the pristine condition of the turbine blades. The RAT either deployed due to electrical power loss during impact with a failed air/ground signal or the impact unlatched the RAT door. New Information as of January 23, 2008: Ms. McCormick has finished her review of the crashworthiness of the airplane and is coming home tomorrow. Gary Horan, an engine controls expert from the Engine and Propeller Directorate, is going to London tomorrow at the NTSB's request. Boeing has drafted a message to all operators of the 777 airplanes, and is still waiting for approval from the Air Accident Investigation Branch of the United Kingdom to send it out. Electrical system: The electrical system anomalies noted earlier have been resolved, and the conclusion now is that the electrical buses were powered until impact and performing as expected. INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN IS BASED ON PRELIMINARY REPORTS AND IS SUBJECT TO REVISION. PUBLIC AVAILABILITY TO BE DETERMINED UNDER 5 U.S.C. 552 FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY Fuel system: Leads regarding water in the fuel and fuel contamination are continuing to be investigated. Fuel testing looking for small-sized contaminants (5 microns) is beginning. The tanks are still being drained and the team hopes to start evaluating the fuel system hardware tomorrow. Engines: Component testing and teardown of the engine-driven fuel pumps and the fuel metering units is planned for later this week. The data from the electronic engine controls is still being analyzed. Rolls-Royce is planning an engine test, unscheduled as yet, to try and duplicate the rollbacks. New Information as of January 22, 2008: The airplane has been moved to a hanger, and the team is now working near the airplane. Fuel system: The post crash fuel leak came from the right engine; the main tanks were intact. There was a message of water in the center fuel tank shortly after departure from Beijing. The fuel was being drained from the tanks today. Hardware analysis should begin tomorrow. Engines: A preliminary review of electronic engine control data from the right engine shows parameters indicating impending engine stall. It has not been determined yet if these items indicate a fuel system or engine stability issue. Data from the left engine has not yet been reviewed. Crashworthiness: Ms. McCormick is documenting the condition of the cabin. Information from cabin crew and passenger questionnaires indicate that the evacuation bell was faint, but the evacuation light was seen and the captain's message to evacuate over the passenger address system was heard. Preliminary data indicates that the descent rate at impact was roughly 30 ft/sec. Dynamic seat requirements that became effective at the introduction of the Model 777 series airplanes require seats protect occupants for hard landing impact up to 35 ft/sec. The passenger with the broken leg was sitting next to the point where the right main landing gear punctured the fuselage and pushed into the cabin (pictured below). New Information as of January 19, 2008: INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN IS BASED ON PRELIMINARY REPORTS AND IS SUBJECT TO REVISION. PUBLIC AVAILABILITY TO BE DETERMINED UNDER 5 U.S.C. 552 FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY Ms. Langsted spent the day at the airplane. Ms. McCormick reviewed the crew interview reports. The airplane has not been moved from the runway yet. The airplane is considered a hull loss. Crashworthiness: There was only one serious injury, a compound fracture to the leg. The airplane landed on the main gear, bounced, came back down on the gear, then the gear failed, and the engines supported weight of the airplane. The descent rate at landing was 1500-1800 feet per minute. One of the main landing gear swung around and pushed slightly into the cabin. The other punctured the center fuel tank (empty) leaving a 1-by-2-foot hole. The report of a fuel leak is unconfirmed. All the slides deployed and the doors worked. Some passengers had to shuffle down the slides due to the slight angle. The flight deck door opened on its own during the landing. Some oxygen masks dropped. Engines: No indication as yet of why engines rolled back. They ingested grass and dirt during the landing. One engine had recently had the electronic engine control (EEC) replaced due to indicated faults. The EECs have been removed from the engine to have the memory read. Fuel system: No indication as yet that the fuel system was not providing fuel to the engines. Center fuel tank was empty, and the main fuel tanks had a quantity of fuel in the tons. The spar valves were open until the pilots pulled the fire handle just prior to evacuating the airplane (normal). The fuel crossfeed valves were closed in flight (normal) according to the flight crew, but the switches were found in the open position and only one valve was open. All fuel boost pumps were on and indicating high pressure (normal). The engine fuel filters have been removed for analysis. Several fuel samples from this airplane and other airplanes coming in from Beijing have been analyzed with no significant findings. The fuel temperature indicated in flight was as low as -34 degrees Celsius, although its proper functioning is being questioned. Electrical System: Although the electrical buses seemed to have been powered through the landing, there were several electrical anomalies close in time with the engine rollbacks. The auxiliary power unit began its auto start sequence, and the quick access recorder saved data and shut down. There were also the unexpected fuel valve positions mentioned earlier. The flight data recorder was powered through the landing. New Information as of January 18, 2008: Sue McCormick and Margaret Langsted arrived at Heathrow in the afternoon London time and met with Bill English (NTSB), Carol Horgan (NTSB), Steve Magladry (NTSB), TR Proven (FAA), for a quick briefing. At about 700 ft AGL, the auto throttle commanded engine acceleration. One engine started to rollback during and the other engine started to accelerate then 8-10 seconds later began to roll back. Once the flight crew noticed, they pushed the throttles up and the engines' EECs responded but the engines did not. It appears that no fuel was getting to the engines. There was adequate fuel on the airplane. Fuel sample tests are not complete. No one from this group INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN IS BASED ON PRELIMINARY REPORTS AND IS SUBJECT TO REVISION. PUBLIC AVAILABILITY TO BE DETERMINED UNDER 5 U.S.C. 552 FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY of investigators has been on board the airplane. The airplane has been released to the operator and we assume they will move it tonight. January 17, 2008 Background: On January 17, 2008, at approximately 1242 (GMT), a British Airways Boeing 777, operating as Flight 38 from Beijing, China to London, England with 152 people on board, landed short of the runway at Heathrow International Airport. The airplane skidded in the grassy runway overrun area resulting in substantial structural damage and came to rest at the approach end of the runway. There was no fire, and the airplane was successfully evacuated with only minor injuries reported. The captain stated that at 400ft on a stabilized approach, the power on both engines simultaneously rolled back. Weather does not appear to be a factor. An investigation team including members from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), Boeing, FAA Aircraft Accident Investigation, and the Seattle ACO will be leaving Thursday evening. An accident investigator from Boeing happened to be in London on other business and is currently at the accident site. The Seattle ACO in sending a propulsion and a cabin safety engineering specialist to participate in the investigation. The cabin safety specialist will help assess the factors that contributed to the successful protection and egress of the aircraft's occupants. Airplane Configuration Data: The aircraft is a Boeing Model 777-200, Serial Number 30314, registration G-YMMM, operated by British Airways. The airplane was delivered May 31, 2001 and had accumulated 22,046 hours and 3,181 cycles and is powered by two Rolls-Royce (RR) Trent 895 engines. The engines were last overhauled approximately one year ago at the Roll-Royce facility in Derby, United Kingdom (UK). The Trent 895 is part of the Trent 800 series of engines which are high by-pass, axial flow, three spool turbofan engines, originally certified by the UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and subsequently validated by the FAA in 1999. European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) began oversight of the type design on behalf of the UK CAA in 2003. The engine FAA type certificate data sheet number is E00050EN. Top 5 Operators of Boeing Model 777 series airplane: Airline Number of Airplanes Singapore Airlines 69 Emirates Airline 55 United Airlines 52 Air France 49 American Airlines 47 INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN IS BASED ON PRELIMINARY REPORTS AND IS SUBJECT TO REVISION. PUBLIC AVAILABILITY TO BE DETERMINED UNDER 5 U.S.C. 552 FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY 777-200 Airworthiness Directives (ADs) (See Attachment 1) Engine Information Engine #1 Engine #2 Serial No. 51426 51359 Total engine hrs 15,700 24,247 Total engine cycles 1,928 3,412 The current IFSD rates for RR-powered 777's are as follows: Worldwide fleet total IFSD rate - 0.0048 per 1,000 hrs. (RR data thru Sept 07) Worldwide fleet basic IFSD rate - 0.0038 per 1,000 hrs. (RR data thru Sept 07) Action Requested/Recommended: Information only. This information is preliminary and is subject to change. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:47 AM PST US From: "Moe - Ross Racing Pistons" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Need Propellers for 680F Randy, Sorry to be a bit late to weigh in on your prop situation, however, as a reminder, several years ago I spent more money to have my two overhauled than two new new Hartzell props and hubs would have cost. The guys kept finding more and more problems as the job progressed. Regards Moe Mills N680RR 680F(p) _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Dettmer, AIA Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Commander-List: Need Propellers for 680F Along with having to rebuild both of my engines for N6253X, I now need to do some serious work on the props. Dave Teeters of Airmotive Specialties tells me that I need new hubs and at least 3 new blades. Anybody out there have a lead on parts for 680F props..?? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Randy Dettmer, AIA 680F / N6253X Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865 http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:57 AM PST US From: "JTAddington" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Need Propellers for 680F I went to NBAA six or seven years ago and there was an after market prop I believe for the 500B, I don't know if they had an STC for your plane or not. It would not fit my 500A so did not keep the name. Jim 500A _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe - Ross Racing Pistons Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 11:19 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Need Propellers for 680F Randy, Sorry to be a bit late to weigh in on your prop situation, however, as a reminder, several years ago I spent more money to have my two overhauled than two new new Hartzell props and hubs would have cost. The guys kept finding more and more problems as the job progressed. Regards Moe Mills N680RR 680F(p) _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Dettmer, AIA Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Commander-List: Need Propellers for 680F Along with having to rebuild both of my engines for N6253X, I now need to do some serious work on the props. Dave Teeters of Airmotive Specialties tells me that I need new hubs and at least 3 new blades. Anybody out there have a lead on parts for 680F props..?? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Randy Dettmer, AIA 680F / N6253X Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865 http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:38 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Commander-List: Official Commander-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the Commander-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Commander-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Commander-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] _-*************************************************************************-_ _-* Commander List Co-Sponsored by the Twin Commander Flight Group (TCFG) *-_ _-* *-_ _-* Please see the link below for a welcome message from the TCFG *-_ _-* directory, Jim Metzger. Jim can be reached at 360-835-1090 or via *-_ _-* email at: YOURTCFG@aol.com *-_ _-* *-_ _-* List Welcome Message from Jim Metzger: *-_ _-* *-_ _-* http://www.matronics.com/commander-list/TCFG-welcome.html *-_ _-* *-_ _-* TCFG Website *-_ _-* *-_ _-* http://www.aerocommander.com *-_ _-* *-_ _-*************************************************************************-_ This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains Commander-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Commander-List policies will minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Commander-List running smoothly for all of us. ****************************************** *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** ****************************************** There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List **************************************** *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe *** **************************************** Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information. The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed. You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request. The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post until you receive the second conformation email message. ***************************** *** How to Post a Message *** ***************************** Send an email message to: commander-list@matronics.com Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed to the List. ***************************************************** *** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post *** ***************************************************** When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor. If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that gets posted to the Lists. Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List: smith@machine.domain.com smith@domain.com Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to the List. ************************************** *** Enclosure Support on the Lists *** ************************************** Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the content of enclosures. These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists: 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists. 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists. 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk. 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down the process of posting the message !! Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "commander-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the Commander-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Commander-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/commander-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Commander-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Commander-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Commander-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Commander-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Commander-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Commander-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Commander-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Commander-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Commander-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Commander-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Commander-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Commander ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Commander-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Commander-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Commander-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Commander-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Commander-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:03:31 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Commander-List: Official Commander-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the Commander-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Commander-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Commander-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Commander-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Commander-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Commander-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Commander-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Commander-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.