---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/17/08: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:40 AM - Re: OK, Who IS this? (Barry Collman) 2. 05:08 AM - Re: Blast from the past... (MASON CHEVAILLIER) 3. 05:20 AM - Re: Blast from the past... (N395V) 4. 06:21 AM - Re: Commander on E-bay (Frits Abbing) 5. 10:26 AM - Re: Commander on E-bay (AAInstalls@aol.com) 6. 12:16 PM - Re: Prop governor cable (Dan Brady) 7. 01:22 PM - Re: Prop governor cable (MASON CHEVAILLIER) 8. 01:56 PM - Re: Prop governor cable (nico css) 9. 04:10 PM - Re: Blast from the past... (Chris) 10. 04:14 PM - Re: Blast from the past... (Chris) 11. 04:17 PM - Re: Fw: Aero Commander 680,690, 500s SRM (Chris) 12. 05:10 PM - Re: Prop governor cable (Deneal Schilmeister) 13. 10:39 PM - Re: Blast from the past... (Keith S. Gordon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:40:55 AM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: OK, Who IS this? Hi John, I too have seen the vast majority of the pics before. Many of them are already posted on various Internet sites, mostly airliners.net but some could be from myaviation.net or jetphotos.net. If you look at the bottom of the photo, most have a black band with Airliners.net on it. But, I think some of the pics have been 'lifted' from "our" website too. I seem to recall that I sent in the two shots that have the Blue Angels, as that's Arnie Palmer in his Model 500. Is the upside-down one Al Hoffman's 500? I've got a feeling it isn't anyone on the list who has compiled this. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Vormbaum" Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 7:47 AM Subject: Commander-List: OK, Who IS this? | | Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDNan_tbBss&NR=1 | | It's a 9-min. video of Commanders....including pics taken from the | copilot seat of N222JS! | | I know it's one of you guys! ...or someone who should be on the list. | Especially considering that I'm pretty sure I know at least HALF the people in this video! | | Jimbob, you're there... | Chris & Dan, you're there too... | Who is the upside-down red/white airplane? Crunk? | | I've seen many of these pics, but have never seen them assembled all in one place.....seriously....who ARE you? | | Cheers, | | /John ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:46 AM PST US From: MASON CHEVAILLIER Subject: RE: Commander-List: Blast from the past... cs, would suspect John Towner or his crew would have one somewhere. gmc From: nico@cybersuperstore.comTo: commander-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Commander-List: Blast from the past...Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:38:16 -0700 Well, well. It's good to hear from you again, Chris. 100 hour weeks? That's rough, man. Nico From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ChrisSent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 4 :54 PMTo: commander-list@matronics.comSubject: Commander-List: Blast from t he past... Howdy friends - both old and just not introduced yet. Chris Schuermann her e. Haven't been on the list in many a year, but hopefully there's still a few old faces around here who remember me. Still clinging to life in Okla homa, working 100 hour weeks, and trying to fit a little flying and fun in between large chunks of reality.Anyway, I received the following email and figured JB or someone here would be much better suited to help these folks out.cheers,Chris Schuermann-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Aero commander SRM - 680, 690 , 500S Thu, 17 Apr 2008 09:40:54 +1000 From: Jess Smith Dear Sir I am writing on behalf of General Aviation Maintenance (GAM Group) ' Melb ourne Australia, to kindly request your Assistance on below matter. Currently we are operating 34 Aero Commander Aircrafts on our fleet, and we are trying to get hold of a COPY Of Structural Repair Manual (SRM) for a 6 90, 680 or 500s Series. We are more than happy to purchase a Copy if you have one in your organisat ion and please contact me with a return mail, so I could organise necessary arrangements ASAP. Further more this copy DOES NOT have to be a current updated version, as we are in the process of certifying repair solution through local Authorities and this SRM will be serve only as a guide to prepare Engineering Document ations. Thank you In Advance, Regards Shaminda Chandrasena Aeronautical Engineer. PS- It would be greatly appreciated if you could direct me to some one who hold a SRM, just in case you don=92t have a SRM In your organisation. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:40 AM PST US Subject: Commander-List: Re: Blast from the past... From: "N395V" Chris neglected to mention he is flying an airplane with a wing on the bottom. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177380#177380 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:41 AM PST US From: Frits Abbing Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander on E-bay Hi Barry, Can you provide me with performance figures of a 680T? Unable to find by internet. Thanks, Rgerads, Frits Abbing --- On Wed, 4/16/08, Barry Collman wrote: > From: Barry Collman > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander on E-bay > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2008, 7:52 PM > Hello All, > > When it first came on the market, the 680T had TPE331-29A > engines and a wing span of 49ft. 0.56 inches. > > The factory called all of these back and they were > re-engined with TPE331-43 engines and had the wing span > reduced to 44ft. 9.7 inches. > They also had their original 84-inch diameter props > replaced with 90-inch ones. > > As the Wing Commander points out, some Commanders that had > the pre TPE331-5 series engines had them replaced with > TPE-331-1-151K and were known as "Century > Turbos". > > Regarding the TPE331-43BL, these were a factory standard > installation introduced on the 680W "Turbo II" > Commander, but the first Commander to utilise that engine > with bleed air for the pressurization and environmental > systems was the Model 681 "Hawk". > > Best Regards, > Barry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Keith S. Gordon > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 5:31 PM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander on E-bay > > > Anyone know WHAT this is? Is it a conversion or factory > turbines... (pre Century) What does that mean? The small > engines? > > > The AC680T was the first production model Turbo > Commander. All of the 680 Turbine series had the Garrett > dash 43 engines, ranging from 43, 43A and 43BL. > > The Century series were any dash number at or above 100, > such as TPE 331-151K. > > Saying this is a 680T with a -43A conversion means they > put the later engine on the earlier airframe. > > The -43 series did not offer much more power than the > piston engine on the AC680FL and were very temperature > critical, meaning as soon as it was over 15C, you were > losing power. Each upgrade dash number was slight > improvement. > > An "interesting" aspect of this airplane is the > "engines 200 SMOH by Garrett/1538 SMOH by > AiResearch." I don't think Garrett/AiResearch has > supported this engine in a long long time. Last facility I > knew that supported this engine was Bob Hancock of Hancock > Turbines outside of Nashville, TN., but then the airplane > has not flown much at all, so the engine SMOH statement is > probably right. > > The AC680T used a hydraulic (Skydrol) powered cabin > supercharger. The AC680V and up used bleed air. The > AC680W was the first all Weather model (certified known > ice) and a Century Conversion that would place a flat-rated > 525shp all the way to altitude is a scr eamer. > > The Achilles Heel of this model is actually the New York > Airbrake 3000 psi hydraulic pump used to drive the cabin > supercharger. The utility system is stepped down to the > normal Commander hydraulic system pressures. This pump is > damn near impossible to find. The two 680Ts I was involved > with burned up these pumps within a few hours -- turned out > they were lower output pumps field modified to make 3000 > psi, or so thought the fellow supplying us with them. Not > so. > > If you remove the pressurization system, a lower output > pump could be used. If used as an upressurized camera > ship, this could be OK ... if being equipped with an > orphaned engine is OK. To be fair, if you're not too > far from Hancock's place, you'd have excellent > support. > > This all off the top of my head ... or the more aptly, > the bottom where all the facts are mixed in with all kinds > of sediment. I trust Sir Barry to come up with the proper > dash numbers, engine powers, etc. > > Wing Commander Gordon > > > > > > > > > > > Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & > More! Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:26:20 AM PST US From: AAInstalls@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander on E-bay Frits, I flew a 680T converted to a V in the the mid-seventies out of Daytona Beach and Atlanta. With 575 SHP on each side it seemed like a rocket to me back then. I remember flying in the mid to high teens the most. I filed high altitude airways quite frequently and flew below FL180 often. Plan on 200 to 250 pph each side (60-75 gph). I remember around 220ktas more often than not. One word of advise on the ebay machine. The purchase price is not a concern. You'll need deep pockets to operate it. Be prepared for some big expenses. Al Auger In a message dated 4/17/2008 7:22:28 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, fritsabbing@yahoo.com writes: --> Commander-List message posted by: Frits Abbing Hi Barry, Can you provide me with performance figures of a 680T? Unable to find by internet. Thanks, Rgerads, Frits Abbing --- On Wed, 4/16/08, Barry Collman wrote: > From: Barry Collman > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander on E-bay > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2008, 7:52 PM > Hello All, > > When it first came on the market, the 680T had TPE331-29A > engines and a wing span of 49ft. 0.56 inches. > > The factory called all of these back and they were > re-engined with TPE331-43 engines and had the wing span > reduced to 44ft. 9.7 inches. > They also had their original 84-inch diameter props > replaced with 90-inch ones. > > As the Wing Commander points out, some Commanders that had > the pre TPE331-5 series engines had them replaced with > TPE-331-1-151K and were known as "Century > Turbos". > > Regarding the TPE331-43BL, these were a factory standard > installation introduced on the 680W "Turbo II" > Commander, but the first Commander to utilise that engine > with bleed air for the pressurization and environmental > systems was the Model 681 "Hawk". > > Best Regards, > Barry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Keith S. Gordon > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 5:31 PM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander on E-bay > > > Anyone know WHAT this is? Is it a conversion or factory > turbines... (pre Century) What does that mean? The small > engines? > > > The AC680T was the first production model Turbo > Commander. All of the 680 Turbine series had the Garrett > dash 43 engines, ranging from 43, 43A and 43BL. > > The Century series were any dash number at or above 100, > such as TPE 331-151K. > > Saying this is a 680T with a -43A conversion means they > put the later engine on the earlier airframe. > > The -43 series did not offer much more power than the > piston engine on the AC680FL and were very temperature > critical, meaning as soon as it was over 15C, you were > losing power. Each upgrade dash number was slight > improvement. > > An "interesting" aspect of this airplane is the > "engines 200 SMOH by Garrett/1538 SMOH by > AiResearch." I don't think Garrett/AiResearch has > supported this engine in a long long time. Last facility I > knew that supported this engine was Bob Hancock of Hancock > Turbines outside of Nashville, TN., but then the airplane > has not flown much at all, so the engine SMOH statement is > probably right. > > The AC680T used a hydraulic (Skydrol) powered cabin > supercharger. The AC680V and up used bleed air. The > AC680W was the first all Weather model (certified known > ice) and a Century Conversion that would place a flat-rated > 525shp all the way to altitude is a scr eamer. > > The Achilles Heel of this model is actually the New York > Airbrake 3000 psi hydraulic pump used to drive the cabin > supercharger. The utility system is stepped down to the > normal Commander hydraulic system pressures. This pump is > damn near impossible to find. The two 680Ts I was involved > with burned up these pumps within a few hours -- turned out > they were lower output pumps field modified to make 3000 > psi, or so thought the fellow supplying us with them. Not > so. > > If you remove the pressurization system, a lower output > pump could be used. If used as an upressurized camera > ship, this could be OK ... if being equipped with an > orphaned engine is OK. To be fair, if you're not too > far from Hancock's place, you'd have excellent > support. > > This all off the top of my head ... or the more aptly, > the bottom where all the facts are mixed in with all kinds > of sediment. I trust Sir Barry to come up with the proper > dash numbers, engine powers, etc. > > Wing Commander Gordon > > > > > > > > > > > Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & > More! Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:16:51 PM PST US From: "Dan Brady" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Prop governor cable Mason, Songbird! you nailed it.I knew Skybird didn't sound right but the old memory cells are starting to wear out. ----- Original Message ----- From: MASON CHEVAILLIER To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 5:00 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Prop governor cable it was the "song bird" gmc ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: westwind@hdiss.net To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Prop governor cable Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:41:20 -0700 Hey old Bob!......Once again our past lives seem to share a common thread. I also got my multi in a Bobcat based at MDW when it was listed as the world's busiest airport. I think Cessna dubbed it the Bobcat to give it a more macho sounding name for the military model which was the T-50 I think. You left out the often used nickname for the civilian model: Useless 78 (UC-78). If anyone remembers the old TV series Sky King the original Skybird was a Bobcat. I enjoyed my time in ours & with a light load & resonable altitude I was amazed at how much time you had with one back at idle to pick out the site of your impact. Later, in the midst of a hot & humid midwest summer, I found myself giving multi instruction in an early Piper Apache for a school who's policy was to put 3 students & an instructor in the aircraft on the theory that the back seaters would absorb some of the training procedures before taking their turns in the left front seat. One time when we landed to play musical chairs, one of my back seaters jumped to the ground & vowed that however long he lived he would never again allow his feet to be separated from mother earth........for a minute or two I seriously considered joining him. Fortunately our friendly FAA inspector convinced the boss that this training procedure was not in the best interests of aviation safety. Also I believe we were consuming more barfbags per hour than fuel. I do believe that the old Bobcat with its "Shaky-Jakes" could have pulled it off much better than the Apache with its "Little Lycs". Keep 'em flyin' Old Bob....Dan the desert duck. ----- Original Message ----- From: BobsV35B@aol.com To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 7:36 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Prop governor cable Good Morning bobf, I think I can qualify as a grey beard! There are times when I would fly without the ability to feather the propellor on a twin engine aircraft. It all has to do with evaluation of the risk Fact is, I received my multiengine rating in an airplane that was not equipped with feathering propellors and that would not maintain altitude with one engine shut down. That was a Cessna Bobcat more commonly referred as a Bamboo Bomber. I also flew many Twin Beech Model C18s that did not have feathering propellors installed. It was before my time, but the first Douglas DC-3s were flown without full feathering propellors. So, the risk is just another one of those which we all have to evaluate each time we fly. Lots of folks will never get in a single engine airplane unless they have a parachute equipped ejection seat to sit on! However, in the case in question, I doubt if I would have flown the airplane without getting a ferry permit and flying only in compliance with the restrictions imposed by that permit. In my book, the greatest danger would be in getting caught doing something illegal. The risk involved in flying without a feathering propellor can be mitigated by good flight planning, but the risk of certificate action is difficult to avoid. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator 628 West 86th Street Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 In a message dated 4/14/2008 2:39:08 A.M. Central Daylight Time, bobf@feldtman.com writes: I wouldn't have done that.... fly with no way to feather. You can use an automotive cable that will work until you get a commander replacement. Are you sure it wasn't the prop governor instead of the cable? (I just had both our prop governors rebuilt in the last year). Again - I wouldn't fly with no way to feather.....Let's see what the grey hairs say (oh wait - I have grey hair) bobf ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - 4/14/2008 9:26 AM " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 4/15/2008 6:10 PM ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:22:04 PM PST US From: MASON CHEVAILLIER Subject: RE: Commander-List: Prop governor cable join the club. From: westwind@hdiss.netTo: commander-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Comman der-List: Prop governor cableDate: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:13:25 -0700 Mason, Songbird! you nailed it.I knew Skybird didn't sound right but the ol d memory cells are starting to wear out. ----- Original Message ----- From: MASON CHEVAILLIER Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 5:00 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Prop governor cable it was the "song bird" gmc From: westwind@hdiss.netTo: commander-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Comman der-List: Prop governor cableDate: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:41:20 -0700 Hey old Bob!......Once again our past lives seem to share a common thread. I also got my multi in a Bobcat based at MDW when it was listed as the worl d's busiest airport. I think Cessna dubbed it the Bobcat to give it a more macho sounding name for the military model which was the T-50 I think. You left out the often used nickname for the civilian model: Useless 78 (UC-78 ). If anyone remembers the old TV series Sky King the original Skybird was a Bobcat. I enjoyed my time in ours & with a light load & resonable altitud e I was amazed at how much time you had with one back at idle to pick out t he site of your impact. Later, in the midst of a hot & humid midwest summer , I found myself giving multi instruction in an early Piper Apache for a sc hool who's policy was to put 3 students & an instructor in the aircraft on the theory that the back seaters would absorb some of the training procedur es before taking their turns in the left front seat. One time when we lande d to play musical chairs, one of my back seaters jumped to the ground & vow ed that however long he lived he would never again allow his feet to be sep arated from mother earth........for a minute or two I seriously considered joining him. Fortunately our friendly FAA inspector convinced the boss that this training procedure was not in the best interests of aviation safety. Also I believe we were consuming more barfbags per hour than fuel. I do bel ieve that the old Bobcat with its "Shaky-Jakes" could have pulled it off m uch better than the Apache with its "Little Lycs". Keep 'em flyin' Old Bob. ...Dan the desert duck. ----- Original Message ----- From: BobsV35B@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 7:36 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Prop governor cable Good Morning bobf, I think I can qualify as a grey beard! There are times when I would fly without the ability to feather the propell or on a twin engine aircraft. It all has to do with evaluation of the risk Fact is, I received my multiengine rating in an airplane that was not equip ped with feathering propellors and that would not maintain altitude with on e engine shut down. That was a Cessna Bobcat more commonly referred as a Ba mboo Bomber. I also flew many Twin Beech Model C18s that did not have feath ering propellors installed. It was before my time, but the first Douglas DC -3s were flown without full feathering propellors. So, the risk is just another one of those which we all have to evaluate eac h time we fly. Lots of folks will never get in a single engine airplane un less they have a parachute equipped ejection seat to sit on! However, in the case in question, I doubt if I would have flown the airplan e without getting a ferry permit and flying only in compliance with the res trictions imposed by that permit. In my book, the greatest danger would be in getting caught doing something illegal. The risk involved in flying without a feathering propellor can be mitigated by good flight planning, but the risk of certificate action is difficult t o avoid. Happy Skies,Old BobAKABob SiegfriedAncient Aviator628 West 86th StreetDowne rs Grove, IL 60516630 985-8502 Stearman N3977ABrookeridge Air Park LL22 In a message dated 4/14/2008 2:39:08 A.M. Central Daylight Time, bobf@feldt man.com writes: I wouldn't have done that.... fly with no way to feather. You can use an au tomotive cable that will work until you get a commander replacement. Are yo u sure it wasn't the prop governor instead of the cable? (I just had both o ur prop governors rebuilt in the last year). Again - I wouldn't fly with no way to feather.....Let's see what the grey h airs say (oh wait - I have grey hair) bobf It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c 4/14/2008 9:26 AM " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c 4/15/2008 6:10 PM ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:55 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Prop governor cable You can still watch the series here http://www.americanflyers.net/entertainment/skyking.asp I don't know how long these guys will host them, but watch while you can. Thanks Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Brady Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 12:13 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Prop governor cable Mason, Songbird! you nailed it.I knew Skybird didn't sound right but the old memory cells are starting to wear out. ----- Original Message ----- From: MASON CHEVAILLIER Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 5:00 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Prop governor cable it was the "song bird" gmc _____ From: westwind@hdiss.net Subject: Re: Commander-List: Prop governor cable Hey old Bob!......Once again our past lives seem to share a common thread. I also got my multi in a Bobcat based at MDW when it was listed as the world's busiest airport. I think Cessna dubbed it the Bobcat to give it a more macho sounding name for the military model which was the T-50 I think. You left out the often used nickname for the civilian model: Useless 78 (UC-78). If anyone remembers the old TV series Sky King the original Skybird was a Bobcat. I enjoyed my time in ours & with a light load & resonable altitude I was amazed at how much time you had with one back at idle to pick out the site of your impact. Later, in the midst of a hot & humid midwest summer, I found myself giving multi instruction in an early Piper Apache for a school who's policy was to put 3 students & an instructor in the aircraft on the theory that the back seaters would absorb some of the training procedures before taking their turns in the left front seat. One time when we landed to play musical chairs, one of my back seaters jumped to the ground & vowed that however long he lived he would never again allow his feet to be separated from mother earth........for a minute or two I seriously considered joining him. Fortunately our friendly FAA inspector convinced the boss that this training procedure was not in the best interests of aviation safety. Also I believe we were consuming more barfbags per hour than fuel. I do believe that the old Bobcat with its "Shaky-Jakes" could have pulled it off much better than the Apache with its "Little Lycs". Keep 'em flyin' Old Bob....Dan the desert duck. ----- Original Message ----- From: BobsV35B@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 7:36 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Prop governor cable Good Morning bobf, I think I can qualify as a grey beard! There are times when I would fly without the ability to feather the propellor on a twin engine aircraft. It all has to do with evaluation of the risk Fact is, I received my multiengine rating in an airplane that was not equipped with feathering propellors and that would not maintain altitude with one engine shut down. That was a Cessna Bobcat more commonly referred as a Bamboo Bomber. I also flew many Twin Beech Model C18s that did not have feathering propellors installed. It was before my time, but the first Douglas DC-3s were flown without full feathering propellors. So, the risk is just another one of those which we all have to evaluate each time we fly. Lots of folks will never get in a single engine airplane unless they have a parachute equipped ejection seat to sit on! However, in the case in question, I doubt if I would have flown the airplane without getting a ferry permit and flying only in compliance with the restrictions imposed by that permit. In my book, the greatest danger would be in getting caught doing something illegal. The risk involved in flying without a feathering propellor can be mitigated by good flight planning, but the risk of certificate action is difficult to avoid. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator 628 West 86th Street Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 In a message dated 4/14/2008 2:39:08 A.M. Central Daylight Time, bobf@feldtman.com writes: I wouldn't have done that.... fly with no way to feather. You can use an automotive cable that will work until you get a commander replacement. Are you sure it wasn't the prop governor instead of the cable? (I just had both our prop governors rebuilt in the last year). Again - I wouldn't fly with no way to feather.....Let's see what the grey hairs say (oh wait - I have grey hair) bobf _____ It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _____ 4/14/2008 9:26 AM " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _____ 4/15/2008 6:10 PM ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:13 PM PST US From: Chris Subject: Re: Commander-List: Blast from the past... Keith S. Gordon wrote: > *Chris! > There's still a few of us left and lots of new talent has risen to > fill the gaps left by those who have moved on to other, lesser, > aviation products. ;-)* Keith! Great to see you're still around. You realize that by now, you pretty much qualify as a "greybeard" in the aviation world :-) Glad to hear there is some new blood too. Seems to be a dwindling supply of people foolish and dedicated enough to be the custodians of classic aircraft. Guess I have to admit to qualifying under the "lesser products" crowd. My current steed is an early short-nose Piper Aztec. May be a little short on charisma compared to a Commander, but I've enjoyed flying it a lot more than I expected I would and it's been a pleasure to own and maintain. Nothing ever breaks on the darn thing. Of course, it did receive the Schuermannization process..... couldn't help it. You can see a few before and after pix at: http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/ cheers, Chris ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:35 PM PST US From: Chris Subject: Re: Commander-List: Blast from the past... nico css wrote: > Well, well. It's good to hear from you again, Chris. 100 hour weeks? > That's rough, man. Howdy Nico! Good to see that you're still around too. Are you still maintaining the web site? I'll have to go look at it. Havn't taken a look in years.... Yeah, long hours seem to come with small business ownership. Strangely, I've become a water treatment plant guru over the last decade and now find myself fixing broken plants all over the midwest. It's turned into a pretty lucrative business, but things only break in the middle of the night and they're always critical. (people sure get grumpy when they have no water!) I'd sure like to cut back on the hours, but I can't seem to find really great people to hire. Chris ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:25 PM PST US From: Chris Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fwd: Aero Commander 680,690, 500s SRM rlegg@austarnet.com.au wrote: > Are you planning to get along to the Flyin at Wiley Post in September? > > Chris...has got to be close to your backyard?? Hey Russell! Starting to think there are more old-timers here than I expected. Good to hear that the Oz contingent is still around. What's your Commander situation these days? I seem to recall that you were rebuilding one??? Didn't know the flyin was going to be in OKC this year. Maybe I'll buzz down just to say howdy. Promise I'll park Pugly Piper out of site :-) Chris ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:26 PM PST US From: "Deneal Schilmeister" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Prop governor cable Sky King - The 1950's Televsion Series "From out of the clear blue of the western sky comes Sky King!" Yes, AF.TV has this 1950's television show available for your viewing enjoyment. Click the links below and enjoy! http://www.americanflyers.net/entertainment/skyking.asp ___________________________ Deneal Schilmeister, ATP LearJet St. Louis - Cincinnati 1997 SL500 http://deneals.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Brady Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 2:13 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Prop governor cable Mason, Songbird! you nailed it.I knew Skybird didn't sound right but the old memory cells are starting to wear out. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:17 PM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: Blast from the past... From: "Keith S. Gordon" Of course, it did receive the Schuermannization process..... couldn't help it. You can see a few before and after pix at:? Chris, First off, I am not old.? I've just been 18 several times.? Next, after looking at the Schuermannization of that sweet potato with wings, I think you would be well served by an intervention. All that incredible effort should have gone into a Commander.? That would have been sane.? However ... (Nice work, by the way!) Wing Commander Gordon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.