---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/25/08: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:56 AM - Re: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders (Richard & Jacqui Thompson) 2. 05:04 AM - Re: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders (MASON CHEVAILLIER) 3. 06:35 AM - Re: Survey Commanders (Steve at Col-East) 4. 06:53 AM - Re: Survey Commanders (Barry Collman) 5. 07:47 AM - Re: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders (kenwhyde@aol.com) 6. 09:44 AM - Re: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders (yourtcfg@aol.com) 7. 09:45 AM - Re: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders (Robert S. Randazzo) 8. 11:46 AM - Re: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders (kenwhyde@aol.com) 9. 12:19 PM - Re: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders (Robert S. Randazzo) 10. 01:19 PM - brakes (Donnie Rose) 11. 01:52 PM - Re: Survey Commanders (WINGFLYER1@aol.com) 12. 02:13 PM - Re: Survey Commanders (mike floyd) 13. 02:49 PM - Re: Survey Commanders (Steve W) 14. 02:55 PM - Re: Survey Commanders (WINGFLYER1@aol.com) 15. 03:04 PM - Re: brakes (Moe-rosspistons) 16. 07:56 PM - Re: brakes (Donnie Rose) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:36 AM PST US From: "Richard & Jacqui Thompson" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders The original kit supplied by Cleveland was the 199-74 kit which had the single caliper for the 500 to 680F models. This was replaced about 18 years ago by the 199-80 kit which has the two calipers. The 199-88 is for the T-Bone and is the same kit as the original -74 kit. I believe that if you want to fit this kit the STC can still be arranged from Cleveland through our fearless leader JB. This was the arrangement a couple of years ago. The 74/88 kit is good on the short bodied commanders as it is not quite as harsh as the 80 kit which is great on the long bodies. I have heard that some people have used the 80 kit but removed one of the calipers. Banking I think on the fact that the FAA dope does not know what he is looking at anyway. Just a little wisdom from Down Under. Cheers Richard -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, 25 April 2008 12:30 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Single caliper What I was trying to clear up - is the Beech 50 (aka 199-88) STC'd Cleveland set up a single caliper version, or the more common twin caliper style? -----Original Message----- From: Gary Moshluk Sent: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 7:04 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders My intent was not to disparage Harry only to clear up whether or not a single caliper 4 piston installation can potentially be 337'd on a Commander. As I indicated, for me this arrangement is far better (ultimately safer in my opinion) than the original Goodyear brake system. Legal or no this ersatz Cleveland setup on my 560 while not perfectly kosher should be permitted as its simply modern technology. What I was trying to clear up - is the Beech 50 (aka 199-88) STC'd Cleveland set up a single caliper version, or the more common twin caliper style? ----- Original Message ----- From: skyhawkc-172@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Harry Merrit = good friend of ex-con "everyone here should know whom that is" = bad egg via personal experience. Want more info ask Harry and his well disatisfied costumers. or his good friend. AKA ex-con. sorry Harry, what comes around goes around... Brent -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Gary Moshluk" I bought a set of "Cleveland's" from Harry Merrit back in 2000 for my '54 560. At a cost of $1500.00 bucks I thought it a great deal at the time. Of course I assumed I'd be getting the twin caliper style I had seen on other Commanders over the years. What I received were of Cleveland manufacture but they turned out to be a set of 4 piston - single caliper brakes, and included the requisite rotors and wheels - basically a modern version of the Goodyear's the 560 was originally fitted with. I was assured these were proper for Commanders. The originally fitted Goodyear brakes couldn't stop a wheel barrow on a good day. After a bit of jury rigging I was able to fit this style to the mains making sure there was clearance to the wheel well structure. Although this set up was superior to the Goodyear's and provided performance I have always held reservations on this installation. After some further investigation some time later and consultation with the Cleveland folks (upon finding a sticker on one of the wheels when refurbishing the mains) - these "Cleveland's" were intended for fitting to Mitsubishi MU-2's. So now I'm curious is the 199-88 the twin caliper type or perhaps more along the lines of what I might have. ----- Original Message ----- From: kenwhyde@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Thanks Moe, Greatly appreciate your offer, I found a set of new disc. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Moe-rosspistons Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 8:39 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Ken, I have a set of Cleveland discs, that are not new, however, they have not been used since the discs were remachined to a thickness of about .463. If this will help call my cell (310) 350-4594. Moe N680RR 680Fp From: kenwhyde@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders HELP! HELP! Anyone have a Cleveland Kit 199-88 in stock that we can replace in 4 -6 weeks from Cleveland. Or anyone have a spare set of disc's part # 164-06306 or brake assy part # 30-99??? Disc are probably the most important! Thanks Guy's... Ken Hyde N47AC _____ Get the MapQuest Toolbar , Maps, Traffi c, Directions & More! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matron ic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _____ Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com : America's #1 Mappin g Site. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matron ic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matron ic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _____ Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com : America's #1 Mappin g Site. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:38 AM PST US From: MASON CHEVAILLIER Subject: RE: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders by the way brent you still owe me $20 for the key i forwarded to you. gmc From: skyhawkc-172@comcast.netTo: commander-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Comm andersDate: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 01:27:49 +0000 Harry Merrit = good friend of ex-con "everyone here should know whom that is" = bad egg via personal experience. Want more info ask Harry and his well disatisfied costumers. or his good friend. AKA ex-con. sorry Harry, what comes around goes around... Brent -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Gary Moshluk" I bought a set of "Cleveland's" from Harry Merrit back in 2000 for my '54 5 60. At a cost of $1500.00 bucks I thought it a great deal at the time. Of course I assumed I'd be getting the twin caliper style I had seen on other Commanders over the years. What I received were of Cleveland manufacture but they turned out to be a set of 4 piston - single caliper brakes, and in cluded the requisite rotors and wheels - basically a modern version of the Goodyear's the 560 was originally fitted with. I was assured these were pr oper for Commanders. The originally fitted Goodyear brakes couldn't stop a wheel barrow on a good day. After a bit of jury rigging I was able to fit this style to the mains makin g sure there was clearance to the wheel well structure. Although this set up was superior to the Goodyear's and provided performance I have always he ld reservations on this installation. After some further investigation some time later and consultation with the Cleveland folks (upon finding a sticker on one of the wheels when refurbish ing the mains) - these "Cleveland's" were intended for fitting to Mitsubish i MU-2's. So now I'm curious is the 199-88 the twin caliper type or perhaps more alon g the lines of what I might have. ----- Original Message ----- From: kenwhyde@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Thanks Moe,Greatly appreciate your offer, I found a set of new disc.Ken--- --Original Message-----From: Moe-rosspistons T o: commander-list@matronics.comSent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 8:39 pmSubject: Re: C ommander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Comma nders Ken, I have a set of Cleveland discs, that are not new, however, they have not b een used since the discs were remachined to a thickness of about .463. If this will help call my cell (310) 350-4594. Moe N680RR 680Fp From: kenwhyde@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for use d on Commanders HELP! HELP! Anyone have a Cleveland Kit 199-88 in stock that we can repla ce in 4 -6 weeks from Cleveland. Or anyone have a spare set of disc's part # 164-06306 or brake assy part # 30-99??? Disc are probably the most import ant!Thanks Guy's...Ken HydeN47AC Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:27 AM PST US From: "Steve at Col-East" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Survey Commanders Barry, That was my Dad, Ronald Welebny. ron@melking.com He flew Commanders and DC-3's worldwide doing magnetometer surveys in the sixties and seventies. A couple 680E's were lost, and a couple broke spars. They had the interiors stripped out when working from jungle strips in southeast Asia, and did dye penetrant checks after every flight. (Espcially after the weekly beer-run, is my suspicion.) Send him a message. He's always happy to talk about Commanders and had some dealings with the factory engineers working on the survey mod. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Collman To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 9:12 AM Subject: Commander-List: Survey Commanders Hi Guys, Some years ago now, I had some email correspondence with somebody whose father flew Commanders in the aerial survey role and we covered the subject of wing spars. Some while ago, while Outlook Express was compacting my emails, a bunch of them was lost. So, if that person remembers the exchange of emails, will you please be kind enough to email me again! Very Best Regards, Barry Collman ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:03 AM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Survey Commanders Hi Steve, Grateful thanks! Now I'm aware again of the names 'involved', let me do another trawl through my messages to see if yours made it through the "cull" that Outlook Express decided to execute whilst performing a "compact" routine. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve at Col-East To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 2:34 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Survey Commanders Barry, That was my Dad, Ronald Welebny. ron@melking.com He flew Commanders and DC-3's worldwide doing magnetometer surveys in the sixties and seventies. A couple 680E's were lost, and a couple broke spars. They had the interiors stripped out when working from jungle strips in southeast Asia, and did dye penetrant checks after every flight. (Espcially after the weekly beer-run, is my suspicion.) Send him a message. He's always happy to talk about Commanders and had some dealings with the factory engineers working on the survey mod. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Collman To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 9:12 AM Subject: Commander-List: Survey Commanders Hi Guys, Some years ago now, I had some email correspondence with somebody whose father flew Commanders in the aerial survey role and we covered the subject of wing spars. Some while ago, while Outlook Express was compacting my emails, a bunch of them was lost. So, if that person remembers the exchange of emails, will you please be kind enough to email me again! Very Best Regards, Barry Collman ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders From: kenwhyde@aol.com Hey Guys, This web site , in my opinion is about new good friends who know a great airplane when they see one...the Aero-Commander and keeping them in the air. Finding the parts and help that I needed came from these gentleman on this web site and their willingness to take the time to help.?I take strong exception to using my call for help or this web site as a form to vent anger and name calling as I see on these e-mails. Got a problem, look in the yellow page under "Lawyers". But an even better answer is to do as? Abe Lincoln once said "I don't like that guy...guess I should get to know him better". This from a Virginian where we never forget that War! Ken Hyde N47AC -----Original Message----- From: MASON CHEVAILLIER Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 8:02 am Subject: RE: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders by the way brent you still owe me $20 for the key i forwarded to you. gmc From: skyhawkc-172@comcast.net Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Harry Merrit = good friend of ex-con "everyone here should know whom that is" = bad egg via personal experience.? Want more info ask Harry and his well disatisfied costumers. or his good friend. AKA ex-con. ? sorry Harry,?what comes around?goes around... ? Brent ? -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Gary Moshluk" I bought a set of?"Cleveland's" from Harry Merrit back in 2000 for my '54 560.? At a cost of $1500.00 bucks I thought it a great deal at the time.? Of course I assumed?I'd be getting?the twin caliper style I had seen on other Commanders over the years.??What I received were of Cleveland manufacture but they turned out to be?a set?of 4 piston - single caliper brakes, and included the requisite rotors and wheels - basically a modern version of the Goodyear's the 560 was originally fitted with.? I was assured these were proper?for Commanders.? The originally fitted Goodyear brakes couldn't stop a wheel barrow on a good day. ? After a bit of jury rigging I was able to fit this style to the mains making sure there was clearance to the wheel well structure.??Although this?set up was superior to the Goodyear's?and provided performance I have always held reservations on this installation. ? After some further investigation some time later and consultation with the Cleveland folks?(upon finding a sticker on one of the wheels when refurbishing the mains) - these "Cleveland's" were intended for fitting?to?Mitsubishi MU-2's. ? So now I'm curious is the 199-88 the twin caliper type or perhaps more along the lines of what I might have.?????? ----- Original Message ----- From: kenwhyde@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Thanks Moe, Greatly appreciate your offer, I found a set of? new disc. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Moe-rosspistons Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 8:39 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Ken, ? I have a set of Cleveland discs, that are not new, however, they have not been used since the discs were remachined to a thickness of about .463.? If this will help call my cell (310) 350-4594. ? Moe N680RR 680Fp ? From: kenwhyde@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders HELP!? HELP!? Anyone have a Cleveland Kit 199-88 in stock that we can replace in 4 -6 weeks from Cleveland. Or anyone have a spare set of disc's part # 164-06306 or brake assy part # 30-99??? Disc are probably the most important! Thanks Guy's... Ken Hyde N47AC Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders From: yourtcfg@aol.com AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!!? jb -----Original Message----- From: kenwhyde@aol.com Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 7:45 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Hey Guys, ? This web site , in my opinion is about new good friends who know a great airplane when they see one...the Aero-Commander and keeping them in the air. Finding the parts and help that I needed came from these gentleman on this web site and their willingness to take the time to help.?I take strong exception to using my call for help or this web site as a form to vent anger and name calling as I see on these e-mails. Got a problem, look in the yellow page under "Lawyers". But an even better answer is to do as? Abe Lincoln once said "I don't like that guy...guess I should get to know him better". This from a Virginian where we never forget that War! Ken Hyde N47AC -----Original Message----- From: MASON CHEVAILLIER Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 8:02 am Subject: RE: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders by the way brent you still owe me $20 for the key i forwarded to you. gmc From: skyhawkc-172@comcast.net Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Harry Merrit = good friend of ex-con "everyone here should know whom that is" = bad egg via personal experience.? Want more info ask Harry and his well disatisfied costumers. or his good friend. AKA ex-con. ? sorry Harry,?what comes around?goes around... ? Brent ? -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Gary Moshluk" I bought a set of?"Cleveland's" from Harry Merrit back in 2000 for my '54 560.? At a cost of $1500.00 bucks I thought it a great deal at the time.? Of course I assumed?I'd be getting?the twin caliper style I had seen on other Commanders over the years.??What I received were of Cleveland manufacture but they turned out to be?a set?of 4 piston - single caliper brakes, and included the requisite rotors and wheels - basically a modern version of the Goodyear's the 560 was originally fitted with.? I was assured these were proper?for Commanders.? The originally fitted Goodyear brakes couldn't stop a wheel barrow on a good day. ? After a bit of jury rigging I was able to fit this style to the mains making sure there was clearance to the wheel well structure.??Although this?set up was superior to the Goodyear's?and provided performance I have always held reservations on this installation. ? After some further investigation some time later and consultation with the Cleveland folks?(upon finding a sticker on one of the wheels when refurbishing the mains) - these "Cleveland's" were intended for fitting?to?Mitsubishi MU-2's. ? So now I'm curious is the 199-88 the twin caliper type or perhaps more along the lines of what I might have.?????? ----- Original Message ----- From: kenwhyde@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Thanks Moe, Greatly appreciate your offer, I found a set of? new disc. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Moe-rosspistons Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 8:39 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Ken, ? I have a set of Cleveland discs, that are not new, however, they have not been used since the discs were remachined to a thickness of about .463.? If this will help call my cell (310) 350-4594. ? Moe N680RR 680Fp ? From: kenwhyde@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders HELP!? HELP!? Anyone have a Cleveland Kit 199-88 in stock that we can replace in 4 -6 weeks from Cleveland. Or anyone have a spare set of disc's part # 164-06306 or brake assy part # 30-99??? Disc are probably the most important! Thanks Guy's... Ken Hyde N47AC Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:02 AM PST US From: "Robert S. Randazzo" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Ken- Where in Virginia? We've been out in Nevada the past few years but we're looking to be back in Good ol' Virginia by year end. Will raise the state's commander population by one.. Robert S. Randazzo From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kenwhyde@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 7:45 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Hey Guys, This web site , in my opinion is about new good friends who know a great airplane when they see one...the Aero-Commander and keeping them in the air. Finding the parts and help that I needed came from these gentleman on this web site and their willingness to take the time to help. I take strong exception to using my call for help or this web site as a form to vent anger and name calling as I see on these e-mails. Got a problem, look in the yellow page under "Lawyers". But an even better answer is to do as Abe Lincoln once said "I don't like that guy...guess I should get to know him better". This from a Virginian where we never forget that War! Ken Hyde N47AC -----Original Message----- From: MASON CHEVAILLIER Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 8:02 am Subject: RE: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders by the way brent you still owe me $20 for the key i forwarded to you. gmc _____ From: skyhawkc-172@comcast.net Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Harry Merrit = good friend of ex-con "everyone here should know whom that is" = bad egg via personal experience. Want more info ask Harry and his well disatisfied costumers. or his good friend. AKA ex-con. sorry Harry, what comes around goes around... Brent -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Gary Moshluk" I bought a set of "Cleveland's" from Harry Merrit back in 2000 for my '54 560. At a cost of $1500.00 bucks I thought it a great deal at the time. Of course I assumed I'd be getting the twin caliper style I had seen on other Commanders over the years. What I received were of Cleveland manufacture but they turned out to be a set of 4 piston - single caliper brakes, and included the requisite rotors and wheels - basically a modern version of the Goodyear's the 560 was originally fitted with. I was assured these were proper for Commanders. The originally fitted Goodyear brakes couldn't stop a wheel barrow on a good day. After a bit of jury rigging I was able to fit this style to the mains making sure there was clearance to the wheel well structure. Although this set up was superior to the Goodyear's and provided performance I have always held reservations on this installation. After some further investigation some time later and consultation with the Cleveland folks (upon finding a sticker on one of the wheels when refurbishing the mains) - these "Cleveland's" were intended for fitting to Mitsubishi MU-2's. So now I'm curious is the 199-88 the twin caliper type or perhaps more along the lines of what I might have. ----- Original Message ----- From: kenwhyde@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Thanks Moe, Greatly appreciate your offer, I found a set of new disc. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Moe-rosspistons Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 8:39 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Ken, I have a set of Cleveland discs, that are not new, however, they have not been used since the discs were remachined to a thickness of about .463. If this will help call my cell (310) 350-4594. Moe N680RR 680Fp From: kenwhyde@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders HELP! HELP! Anyone have a Cleveland Kit 199-88 in stock that we can replace in 4 -6 weeks from Cleveland. Or anyone have a spare set of disc's part # 164-06306 or brake assy part # 30-99??? Disc are probably the most important! Thanks Guy's... Ken Hyde N47AC _____ Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _____ Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com : America's #1 Mapping Site. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution _____ Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com : America's #1 Mapping Site. __________ NOD32 3055 (20080425) Information __________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:46:51 AM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders From: kenwhyde@aol.com Robert, I am just North of Warrenton which is 55 miles West of Washington DC. I have a hanger at HWY or old W66. Nice place to live...they have not messed it up yet. Glad to show you the area...If you would like the local papers, I will be glad to mail you copies. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Robert S. Randazzo Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:41 pm Subject: RE: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Ken- =C2- Where in Virginia? =C2- We=99ve been out in Nevada the past few years but we=99re lookin g to be back in Good ol=99 Virginia by year end =C2- Will raise the state=99s commander population by one. =C2- Robert S. Randazzo =C2- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list -server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kenwhyde@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 7:45 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders =C2- Hey Guys, =C2- This web site , in my opinion is about new good friends who know a great air plane when they see one...the Aero-Commander and keeping them in the air. Fi nding the parts and help that I needed came from these gentleman on this web site and their willingness to take the time to help.=C2-I take strong exc eption to using my call for help or this web site as a form to vent anger an d name calling as I see on these e-mails. Got a problem, look in the yellow page under "Lawyers". But an even better answer is to do as=C2- Abe Lincol n once said "I don't like that guy...guess I should get to know him better". This from a Virginian where we never forget that War! Ken Hyde N47AC -----Original Message----- From: MASON CHEVAILLIER Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 8:02 am Subject: RE: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders by the way brent you still owe me $20 for the key i forwarded to you. gmc From: skyhawkc-172@comcast.net Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Harry Merrit = good friend of ex-con "everyone here should know whom that is" = bad egg via personal experience.=C2- Want more info ask Harry and his well disatisfied costumers. or his good friend. AKA ex-con. =C2- sorry Harry,=C2-what comes around=C2-goes around... =C2- Brent =C2- -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Gary Moshluk" I bought a set of=C2-"Cleveland's" from Harry Merrit back in 2000 for my ' 54 560.=C2- At a cost of $1500.00 bucks I thought it a great deal at the t ime.=C2- Of course I assumed=C2-I'd be getting=C2-the twin caliper sty le I had seen on other Commanders over the years.=C2-=C2-What I received were of Cleveland manufacture but they turned out to be=C2-a set=C2-of 4 piston - single caliper brakes, and included the requisite rotors and whee ls - basically a modern version of the Goodyear's the 560 was originally fit ted with.=C2- I was assured these were proper=C2-for Commanders.=C2- T he originally fitted Goodyear brakes couldn't stop a wheel barrow on a good day. =C2- After a bit of jury rigging I was able to fit this style to the mains making sure there was clearance to the wheel well structure.=C2-=C2-Although t his=C2-set up was superior to the Goodyear's=C2-and provided performance I have always held reservations on this installation. =C2- After some further investigation some time later and consultation with the C leveland folks=C2-(upon finding a sticker on one of the wheels when refurb ishing the mains) - these "Cleveland's" were intended for fitting=C2-to =C2-Mitsubishi MU-2's. =C2- So now I'm curious is the 199-88 the twin caliper type or perhaps more along the lines of what I might have.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- ----- Original Message ----- From: kenwhyde@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders =C2- Thanks Moe, Greatly appreciate your offer, I found a set of=C2- new disc. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Moe-rosspistons Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 8:39 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Ken, =C2- I have a set of Cleveland discs, that are not new, however, they have not be en used since the discs were remachined to a thickness of about .463.=C2- If this will help call my cell (310) 350-4594. =C2- Moe N680RR 680Fp =C2- =C2- From: kenwhyde@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders =C2- HELP!=C2- HELP!=C2- Anyone have a Cleveland Kit 199-88 in stock that we can replace in 4 -6 weeks from Cleveland. Or anyone have a spare set of disc 's part # 164-06306 or brake assy part # 30-99??? Disc are probably the most important! Thanks Guy's... Ken Hyde N47AC Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! =C2- =C2- href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =C2- =C2- =C2- Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. =C2- =C2- href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- __________ NOD32 3055 (20080425) Information __________ -= - The Commander-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! -= --> http://forums.matronics.com -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:19:38 PM PST US From: "Robert S. Randazzo" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Ken- Thanks for the offer. I know the area very well- as I lived in Alexandria for a dozen years prior to 2005. My wife=99s work is taking us back in that direction- and while I=99m not excited about the traffic- I am looking forward to reconnecting with many old friends there. W66 was the first place I every practiced touch n=99 goes oh many years ago. I didn=99t realize that they gave the field an ICAO- does that mean it=99s growing? I=99ll probably be looking to hangar the Commander and the SNJ at RMN. I=99ll give you a shout via this list when we get back- maybe we can meet up for a $300 cup of coffee. (and they think starbucks is expensive) Robert S. Randazzo N414C From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kenwhyde@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 11:44 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Robert, I am just North of Warrenton which is 55 miles West of Washington DC. I have a hanger at HWY or old W66. Nice place to live...they have not messed it up yet. Glad to show you the area...If you would like the local papers, I will be glad to mail you copies. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Robert S. Randazzo Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:41 pm Subject: RE: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Ken- Where in Virginia? We=99ve been out in Nevada the past few years but we=99re looking to be back in Good ol=99 Virginia by year end Will raise the state=99s commander population by one. Robert S. Randazzo From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [ mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kenwhyde@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 7:45 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Hey Guys, This web site , in my opinion is about new good friends who know a great airplane when they see one...the Aero-Commander and keeping them in the air. Finding the parts and help that I needed came from these gentleman on this web site and their willingness to take the time to help. I take strong exception to using my call for help or this web site as a form to vent anger and name calling as I see on these e-mails. Got a problem, look in the yellow page under "Lawyers". But an even better answer is to do as Abe Lincoln once said "I don't like that guy...guess I should get to know him better". This from a Virginian where we never forget that War! Ken Hyde N47AC -----Original Message----- From: MASON CHEVAILLIER < kamala@MSN.COM> Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 8:02 am Subject: RE: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders by the way brent you still owe me $20 for the key i forwarded to you. gmc _____ From: skyhawkc-172@comcast.net Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Harry Merrit = good friend of ex-con "everyone here should know whom that is" = bad egg via personal experience. Want more info ask Harry and his well disatisfied costumers. or his good friend. AKA ex-con. sorry Harry, what comes around goes around... Brent -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Gary Moshluk" < gmosh@charter.net> I bought a set of "Cleveland's" from Harry Merrit back in 2000 for my '54 560. At a cost of $1500.00 bucks I thought it a great deal at the time. Of course I assumed I'd be getting the twin caliper style I had seen on other Commanders over the years. What I received were of Cleveland manufacture but they turned out to be a set of 4 piston - single caliper brakes, and included the requisite rotors and wheels - basically a modern version of the Goodyear's the 560 was originally fitted with. I was assured these were proper for Commanders. The originally fitted Goodyear brakes couldn't stop a wheel barrow on a good day. After a bit of jury rigging I was able to fit this style to the mains making sure there was clearance to the wheel well structure. Although this set up was superior to the Goodyear's and provided performance I have always held reservations on this installation. After some further investigation some time later and consultation with the Cleveland folks (upon finding a sticker on one of the wheels when refurbishing the mains) - these "Cleveland's" were intended for fitting to Mitsubishi MU-2's. So now I'm curious is the 199-88 the twin caliper type or perhaps more along the lines of what I might have. ----- Original Message ----- From: kenwhyde@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Thanks Moe, Greatly appreciate your offer, I found a set of new disc. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Moe-rosspistons < moe-rosspistons@hotmail.com> Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 8:39 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders Ken, I have a set of Cleveland discs, that are not new, however, they have not been used since the discs were remachined to a thickness of about .463. If this will help call my cell (310) 350-4594. Moe N680RR 680Fp From: kenwhyde@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: Commander-List: Cleveland 199-88 brake kit (Beech50) STC,d for used on Commanders HELP! HELP! Anyone have a Cleveland Kit 199-88 in stock that we can replace in 4 -6 weeks from Cleveland. Or anyone have a spare set of disc's part # 164-06306 or brake assy part # 30-99??? Disc are probably the most important! Thanks Guy's... Ken Hyde N47AC _____ Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! href=" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href=" http://forums.matronics.com"> http://forums.matronics.com href=" http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/c _____ Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. href=" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href=" http://forums.matronics.com"> http://forums.matronics.com href=" http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/c " target=_blank> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List p://forums.matronics.com blank> http://www.matronics.com/contribution _____ Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution __________ NOD32 3055 (20080425) Information __________ target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ://forums.matronics.com lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution _____ Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution __________ NOD32 3055 (20080425) Information __________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:12 PM PST US From: Donnie Rose Subject: Commander-List: brakes Good afternoon Ladies and-Gents,=0A--- Does anyone know the beat (a nd least expensive place to get Cleveland pads # 66-90?=0AThanks in advance ,=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A=0A=0A _______________________ _____________________________________________________________=0ABe a better friend, newshound, and =0Aknow-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ht tp://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:04 PM PST US From: WINGFLYER1@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Survey Commanders I have a 680. What caused the spars to break? **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:03 PM PST US From: mike floyd Subject: RE: Commander-List: Survey Commanders Read this: http://www.casa.gov.au/airworth/papers/aerocommander.pdf From: WINGFLYER1@aol.comDate: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:49:25 -0400Subject: Re: C ommander-List: Survey CommandersTo: commander-list@matronics.com I have a 680. What caused the spars to break? Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at A OL Autos. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize! http://www.gowindowslive.com/Mobile/Landing/Messenger/Default.aspx?Locale =en-US?ocid=TAG_APRIL ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:06 PM PST US From: "Steve W" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Survey Commanders Just getting back from flying. Don't panic! The lower cap of the spars were raduised where they enter the cabin, (and again in the nacelle on the bathtubs). The real short story is the spars developed cracks at those (radia? radiuses? Too tired to think) in the lower cap. Which can end up shortening your day considerably. The fix was the great honking strap riveted to the lower cap. I haven't been around a bathtub in a dog's age or two, but believe the strap on bathtubs extended outboard past the lower cap radius in the nacelle. The spar continues to be the Achille's Heel of sorts for Commanders, as we're still dealing with the repercusions of the factory's decision to radius the caps way back when because of corrosion. The 500B I now fly used an aluminum strap, and is not as subject to electrolysis in the dissimilar metals causing corrosion as in other models. The straps made of stainless steel are another matter. By AD, the caps are checked yearly. We operate a little heavy and its often bumpy, so we are maybe extra attentive. I don't know that there have been any airframes lost once they were strapped. Commanders are not falling out of the sky. The Commander spar is a fascinating engineering study, and has been managed. I ain't an engineer. I don't want to pretend to be one. I tried to be careful with facts. I'm writing quick, going out to eat with the wife. Going to have a beer, some food, and a nap. Maybe all at the same time. The others in the group can correct any errors, I'm sure! Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: WINGFLYER1@aol.com To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 4:49 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Survey Commanders I have a 680. What caused the spars to break? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:47 PM PST US From: WINGFLYER1@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Survey Commanders Ron, Thank you very much. I had the spars dye penetrated about a year and a half ago prior to buying the airplane and everything checked out o.k. Again thank you very much and if you have any other advice,I would appreciate hearing from you. Gil **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:53 PM PST US From: "Moe-rosspistons" Subject: Re: Commander-List: brakes Donnie, While never having purchased that part number from them, it seems that Aircraft Spruce is a very good source for Cleveland parts. They seem to be happy to special order the things that they do not have in stock. Moe N680RR 680Fp From: Donnie Rose Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 1:16 PM Subject: Commander-List: brakes Good afternoon Ladies and Gents, Does anyone know the beat (and least expensive place to get Cleveland pads # 66-90? Thanks in advance, Donnie Rose 205/492-8444 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Be a better friend, newshound, and 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:54 PM PST US From: Donnie Rose Subject: Re: Commander-List: brakes Thanks Moe, I'll check that out, Donnie Rose 205/492-8444 ----- Original Message ---- From: Moe-rosspistons Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 5:01:38 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: brakes Donnie, While never having purchased that part number from them, it seems that Aircraft Spruce is a very good source for Cleveland parts. They seem to be happy to special order the things that they do not have in stock. Moe N680RR 680Fp From: Donnie Rose Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 1:16 PM Subject: Commander-List: brakes Good afternoon Ladies and Gents, Does anyone know the beat (and least expensive place to get Cleveland pads # 66-90? Thanks in advance, Donnie Rose 205/492-8444 Be a better friend, newshound, and 3D============================================ href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 3D============================================ href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D============================================ href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/contribution 3D============================================ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. 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