Commander-List Digest Archive

Wed 08/13/08


Total Messages Posted: 19



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:35 AM - Re: Re: Fly-in (Randy Dettmer, AIA)
     2. 07:24 AM - Re: Re: Fly-in (Steve at Col-East)
     3. 09:17 AM - Re: Re: Fly-in (John Vormbaum)
     4. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Fly-in (Chris)
     5. 10:32 AM - Re: Re: Fly-in (John Vormbaum)
     6. 11:02 AM - Re: Re: Fly-in (Steve at Col-East)
     7. 11:18 AM - Re: Re: Fly-in (John Vormbaum)
     8. 12:18 PM - Re: TCFG FLY-IN (WINGFLYER1@aol.com)
     9. 04:47 PM - Re: Re: Fly-in (Chris)
    10. 05:11 PM - Re: Re: Fly-in (John Vormbaum)
    11. 05:33 PM - Re: Re: Fly-in (Chris)
    12. 05:33 PM - Re: Re: Fly-in (Tylor Hall)
    13. 05:54 PM - Re: Re: Fly-in (John Vormbaum)
    14. 05:55 PM - Re: Re: Fly-in (John Vormbaum)
    15. 05:59 PM - Re: Re: Fly-in (Bruce Campbell)
    16. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: Fly-in (Moe-rosspistons)
    17. 10:22 PM - Re: Re: Fly-in (nico css)
    18. 10:46 PM - Re: Re: Fly-in (John Vormbaum)
    19. 11:16 PM - Re: Re: Fly-in (Robert S. Randazzo)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:35:24 AM PST US
    From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: Fly-in
    John, Sorry to hear about your engine. Believe me, I feel your pain. As you know, my engines made it to 700 hours. Hope that you will be back in the air soon. Randy Dettmer, AIA 680F / N6253X Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 7:30 PM Subject: Commander-List: Re: Fly-in Hi Jim, I still want to make it to the fly-in, but I've had a rough start to my week. Morris found that the case on my right engine is cracked...pretty badly. So I have no airplane for the moment. Sadly this is my "new" engine (800hrs. TTSO). I'll know more by next week, in time to make the deadline. Cheers, /John yourtcfg@aol.com wrote: > > The Fly-In is just around the corner and we're sure getting excited to > see everyone. Just want to remind everyone that the deadline for > getting the group rate at the Marriott is August 28th so be sure to > make your reservations. Also be sure to register with us for the > Fly-In so we can give the caterers the proper headcount. > > See You in Oklahoma City!! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > It's time to go back to school! Get the latest trends and gadgets that > make the grade on AOL Shopping > <http://shopping.aol.com/back-to-school?ncid=aolins00050000000007>. > * > > > *


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:24:14 AM PST US
    From: "Steve at Col-East" <steve2@sover.net>
    Subject: Re: Fly-in
    Ouch..... Narrow case engine? Those cases are starting to get tough to find? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 10:30 PM Subject: Commander-List: Re: Fly-in > > Hi Jim, > > I still want to make it to the fly-in, but I've had a rough start to my > week. Morris found that the case on my right engine is cracked...pretty > badly. So I have no airplane for the moment. Sadly this is my "new" > engine (800hrs. TTSO). > > I'll know more by next week, in time to make the deadline. > > Cheers, > > /John > > yourtcfg@aol.com wrote: >> >> The Fly-In is just around the corner and we're sure getting excited to >> see everyone. Just want to remind everyone that the deadline for >> getting the group rate at the Marriott is August 28th so be sure to >> make your reservations. Also be sure to register with us for the >> Fly-In so we can give the caterers the proper headcount. >> >> See You in Oklahoma City!! >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> It's time to go back to school! Get the latest trends and gadgets that >> make the grade on AOL Shopping >> <http://shopping.aol.com/back-to-school?ncid=aolins00050000000007>. >> * >> >> >> * > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 09:17:51 AM PST US
    From: John Vormbaum <john@vormbaum.com>
    Subject: Re: Fly-in
    Hey, maybe this is my opportunity to step up to wide-deck engines. What say you, Dan Farmer? I remember I liked the way your airplane flew! /John Steve at Col-East wrote: > <steve2@sover.net> > > Ouch..... > > Narrow case engine? Those cases are starting to get tough to find? > > Steve > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com> > To: <commander-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 10:30 PM > Subject: Commander-List: Re: Fly-in > > >> >> Hi Jim, >> >> I still want to make it to the fly-in, but I've had a rough start to >> my week. Morris found that the case on my right engine is >> cracked...pretty badly. So I have no airplane for the moment. Sadly >> this is my "new" engine (800hrs. TTSO). >> >> I'll know more by next week, in time to make the deadline. >> >> Cheers, >> >> /John >> >> yourtcfg@aol.com wrote: >>> >>> The Fly-In is just around the corner and we're sure getting excited >>> to see everyone. Just want to remind everyone that the deadline for >>> getting the group rate at the Marriott is August 28th so be sure to >>> make your reservations. Also be sure to register with us for the >>> Fly-In so we can give the caterers the proper headcount. >>> See You in Oklahoma City!! >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> It's time to go back to school! Get the latest trends and gadgets >>> that make the grade on AOL Shopping >>> <http://shopping.aol.com/back-to-school?ncid=aolins00050000000007>. >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >> >> >> > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 10:15:52 AM PST US
    From: Chris <cschuerm@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Fly-in
    John Vormbaum wrote: > > Hey, maybe this is my opportunity to step up to wide-deck engines. Sorry to hear about your trauma John. That's certainly no fun and is going to cost some money to deal with. The wide-deck engines are certainly more desirable, but a well-built narrow-deck is a good engine too. No idea if your case is repairable or not since I haven't seen it, but Divco in Tulsa, OK does a LOT of Lycoming case repairs and they really know their stuff. Just out of curiosity, have you had your engines/props balanced? A really smoothly balanced engine will have a lot fewer problems with case cracks and fretting. chris


    Message 5


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    Time: 10:32:38 AM PST US
    From: John Vormbaum <john@vormbaum.com>
    Subject: Re: Fly-in
    Chris, John Towner also recommended Divco. I'll check them out. The case is probably repairable; it's just that we have to split it, which means new bearings, and then why not top it.....but then why not just do a complete overhaul? And if I'm going to pay for that and my other engine is past TBO, why not get the wide decks? I didn't do the dynamic prop balancing. I sort of imagine that case cracks are due to the crank....if it doesn't crack, your crank is good. If it does crack, your crank isn't as well balanced as it could be. My other engine has >1,600 SMOH and runs like a swiss watch. I just have a good engine on that side. This engine has ~800 hours and has been responsible for 70% of my engine difficulties in the near decade I've owned my airplane. /J Chris wrote: > > John Vormbaum wrote: >> >> Hey, maybe this is my opportunity to step up to wide-deck engines. > > Sorry to hear about your trauma John. That's certainly no fun and is > going to cost some money to deal with. The wide-deck engines are > certainly more desirable, but a well-built narrow-deck is a good > engine too. No idea if your case is repairable or not since I haven't > seen it, but Divco in Tulsa, OK does a LOT of Lycoming case repairs > and they really know their stuff. Just out of curiosity, have you had > your engines/props balanced? A really smoothly balanced engine will > have a lot fewer problems with case cracks and fretting. > > > chris > > > . >


    Message 6


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    Time: 11:02:48 AM PST US
    From: "Steve at Col-East" <steve2@sover.net>
    Subject: Re: Fly-in
    I think we'd second or third Divco. Sure as heck not an 'authority', but a couple sweet running narrow case engines have started wearing the cam lobes that are pulling double duty, somewhere around >1750 or so for us. Guess I'm geeky enough to be real interested in a teardown report on both your good and bad mill. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 1:27 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Fly-in > > Chris, > > John Towner also recommended Divco. I'll check them out. > > The case is probably repairable; it's just that we have to split it, which > means new bearings, and then why not top it.....but then why not just do a > complete overhaul? And if I'm going to pay for that and my other engine is > past TBO, why not get the wide decks? > > I didn't do the dynamic prop balancing. I sort of imagine that case cracks > are due to the crank....if it doesn't crack, your crank is good. If it > does crack, your crank isn't as well balanced as it could be. My other > engine has >1,600 SMOH and runs like a swiss watch. I just have a good > engine on that side. This engine has ~800 hours and has been responsible > for 70% of my engine difficulties in the near decade I've owned my > airplane. > > /J > > Chris wrote: >> >> John Vormbaum wrote: >>> >>> Hey, maybe this is my opportunity to step up to wide-deck engines. >> >> Sorry to hear about your trauma John. That's certainly no fun and is >> going to cost some money to deal with. The wide-deck engines are >> certainly more desirable, but a well-built narrow-deck is a good engine >> too. No idea if your case is repairable or not since I haven't seen it, >> but Divco in Tulsa, OK does a LOT of Lycoming case repairs and they >> really know their stuff. Just out of curiosity, have you had your >> engines/props balanced? A really smoothly balanced engine will have a >> lot fewer problems with case cracks and fretting. >> >> >> chris >> >> >> >> >> >> . >> > > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 11:18:54 AM PST US
    From: John Vormbaum <john@vormbaum.com>
    Subject: Re: Fly-in
    Steve, I'll share what I find with the group. /John Steve at Col-East wrote: > <steve2@sover.net> > > I think we'd second or third Divco. > > Sure as heck not an 'authority', but a couple sweet running narrow > case engines have started wearing the cam lobes that are pulling > double duty, somewhere around >1750 or so for us. > > Guess I'm geeky enough to be real interested in a teardown report on > both your good and bad mill. > > Steve > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com> > To: <commander-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 1:27 PM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Fly-in > > >> >> Chris, >> >> John Towner also recommended Divco. I'll check them out. >> >> The case is probably repairable; it's just that we have to split it, >> which means new bearings, and then why not top it.....but then why >> not just do a complete overhaul? And if I'm going to pay for that and >> my other engine is past TBO, why not get the wide decks? >> >> I didn't do the dynamic prop balancing. I sort of imagine that case >> cracks are due to the crank....if it doesn't crack, your crank is >> good. If it does crack, your crank isn't as well balanced as it could >> be. My other engine has >1,600 SMOH and runs like a swiss watch. I >> just have a good engine on that side. This engine has ~800 hours and >> has been responsible for 70% of my engine difficulties in the near >> decade I've owned my airplane. >> >> /J >> >> Chris wrote: >>> >>> John Vormbaum wrote: >>>> >>>> Hey, maybe this is my opportunity to step up to wide-deck engines. >>> >>> Sorry to hear about your trauma John. That's certainly no fun and >>> is going to cost some money to deal with. The wide-deck engines are >>> certainly more desirable, but a well-built narrow-deck is a good >>> engine too. No idea if your case is repairable or not since I >>> haven't seen it, but Divco in Tulsa, OK does a LOT of Lycoming case >>> repairs and they really know their stuff. Just out of curiosity, >>> have you had your engines/props balanced? A really smoothly >>> balanced engine will have a lot fewer problems with case cracks and >>> fretting. >>> >>> >>> chris >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> . >>> >> >> >> > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 12:18:37 PM PST US
    From: WINGFLYER1@aol.com
    Subject: Re: TCFG FLY-IN
    Have not received the news letter or info on fly in. Thanks Gil Walker N-6819-Q (680) **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )


    Message 9


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    Time: 04:47:55 PM PST US
    From: Chris <cschuerm@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Fly-in
    >> I didn't do the dynamic prop balancing. I sort of imagine that case >> cracks are due to the crank....if it doesn't crack, your crank is >> good. If it does crack, your crank isn't as well balanced as it could >> be. There are some pretty significant quality differences between a typical field overhaul and one done by a true expert. A precision builder will match the con rod weights then balance both the big and small ends. Carefully matched counterweights with good, true bushings will help significantly as well. The crank can be spin balanced with counterweights in place for a final bottom end check. A really careful builder will sort through many new pistons to find parts that are closely matched, then install them opposite of each other. If all of these steps are taken, you'll have an incredibly smooth engine that will be highly unlikely to develop cracks. Accessory, instrument, and airframe problems associated with vibration are all also minimized. chris


    Message 10


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    Time: 05:11:20 PM PST US
    From: John Vormbaum <john@vormbaum.com>
    Subject: Re: Fly-in
    Chris, sounds like assembling airplane engines is as much art as science! Chris wrote: > > >>> I didn't do the dynamic prop balancing. I sort of imagine that case >>> cracks are due to the crank....if it doesn't crack, your crank is >>> good. If it does crack, your crank isn't as well balanced as it >>> could be. > > There are some pretty significant quality differences between a > typical field overhaul and one done by a true expert. A precision > builder will match the con rod weights then balance both the big and > small ends. Carefully matched counterweights with good, true bushings > will help significantly as well. The crank can be spin balanced with > counterweights in place for a final bottom end check. A really > careful builder will sort through many new pistons to find parts that > are closely matched, then install them opposite of each other. If all > of these steps are taken, you'll have an incredibly smooth engine that > will be highly unlikely to develop cracks. Accessory, instrument, > and airframe problems associated with vibration are all also minimized. > chris > > > . >


    Message 11


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    Time: 05:33:03 PM PST US
    From: Chris <cschuerm@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Fly-in
    John Vormbaum wrote: > > Chris, sounds like assembling airplane engines is as much art as science! There's a little art for sure - but quality and experience are key. Any turkey with a toolbox and a manual can bolt one together that will run, but a craftsman can build an engine that will run to TBO and beyond without needing to be touched. When you have your engines done, go with a quality builder and I'd strongly suggest factory new cylinders. Factory Lyc jugs are good for a trouble-free TBO run. By the time they've accumulated 2000hrs, they almost all have significant metal fatigue and a good inspection will usually find small cracks beginning to form. Sure, they can be welded up and re-worked, but it's unlikely that you'll have another reliable run to TBO. Out of my 12 cylinders with 2000 hrs since new, we found cracks in 10 of them at teardown. I'll let someone else re-use them then have to top one or two every few hundred hours. Spend a few minutes looking at trade-a-plane to prove my point. You'll find tons of 800 SMOH, 200 STOP engines out there. ya tend to get what you pay for..... chris or.... "it all depends".... :-)


    Message 12


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    Time: 05:33:04 PM PST US
    From: Tylor Hall <tylor.hall@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Fly-in
    John, I If you have not gone through an engine shop you should see one. Victor Engines right on the Palo Alto shop is a very high end engine shop. Get them to give you a tour. It is an experience. They do not have a tolerance on weight of parts. They will go thought a bunch of pistons to match 6 just alike. Same goes for piston rods, and other things. I went through their shop over 10 years ago. I understand Lyc has roller cam lifters now. Tylor Hall On Aug 13, 2008, at 6:11 PM, John Vormbaum wrote: > <john@vormbaum.com> > > Chris, sounds like assembling airplane engines is as much art as > science! > > Chris wrote: >> >> >>>> I didn't do the dynamic prop balancing. I sort of imagine that >>>> case cracks are due to the crank....if it doesn't crack, your >>>> crank is good. If it does crack, your crank isn't as well >>>> balanced as it could be. >> >> There are some pretty significant quality differences between a >> typical field overhaul and one done by a true expert. A precision >> builder will match the con rod weights then balance both the big >> and small ends. Carefully matched counterweights with good, true >> bushings will help significantly as well. The crank can be spin >> balanced with counterweights in place for a final bottom end >> check. A really careful builder will sort through many new pistons >> to find parts that are closely matched, then install them opposite >> of each other. If all of these steps are taken, you'll have an >> incredibly smooth engine that will be highly unlikely to develop >> cracks. Accessory, instrument, and airframe problems associated >> with vibration are all also minimized. >> chris >> >> >> >> >> >> . >> > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 05:54:56 PM PST US
    From: John Vormbaum <john@vormbaum.com>
    Subject: Re: Fly-in
    Tylor, I'll have to check Victor out. I've walked past their shop about 700 times in the last decade, but have never stopped in. I did detour over there once to look at the Hoover Hornet, which was parked in front of the shop for engine work. Got a good closeup look at that well used yoke & throttle quadrant. "Yeah, I touched Hoover's airplane." Roller motors for my airplane sound like a sweet idea. If they work anywhere near as well as the '60s-era Mustangs me & my friends built back in the 80's (think roller 351, 390 and 428) it should work pretty well, and be the envy of all my friends.... /J Tylor Hall wrote: > <tylor.hall@sbcglobal.net> > > John, I > If you have not gone through an engine shop you should see one. > > Victor Engines right on the Palo Alto shop is a very high end engine > shop. Get them to give you a tour. > It is an experience. > They do not have a tolerance on weight of parts. They will go thought > a bunch of pistons to match 6 just alike. > Same goes for piston rods, and other things. > > I went through their shop over 10 years ago. > > I understand Lyc has roller cam lifters now. > > Tylor Hall > > On Aug 13, 2008, at 6:11 PM, John Vormbaum wrote: > >> >> Chris, sounds like assembling airplane engines is as much art as >> science! >> >> Chris wrote: >>> >>> >>>>> I didn't do the dynamic prop balancing. I sort of imagine that >>>>> case cracks are due to the crank....if it doesn't crack, your >>>>> crank is good. If it does crack, your crank isn't as well balanced >>>>> as it could be. >>> >>> There are some pretty significant quality differences between a >>> typical field overhaul and one done by a true expert. A precision >>> builder will match the con rod weights then balance both the big and >>> small ends. Carefully matched counterweights with good, true >>> bushings will help significantly as well. The crank can be spin >>> balanced with counterweights in place for a final bottom end check. >>> A really careful builder will sort through many new pistons to find >>> parts that are closely matched, then install them opposite of each >>> other. If all of these steps are taken, you'll have an incredibly >>> smooth engine that will be highly unlikely to develop cracks. >>> Accessory, instrument, and airframe problems associated with >>> vibration are all also minimized. >>> chris >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> . >>> >> >> >> >> > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 05:55:45 PM PST US
    From: John Vormbaum <john@vormbaum.com>
    Subject: Re: Fly-in
    I hear that.... Chris wrote: > > John Vormbaum wrote: >> >> Chris, sounds like assembling airplane engines is as much art as >> science! > > There's a little art for sure - but quality and experience are key. > Any turkey with a toolbox and a manual can bolt one together that will > run, but a craftsman can build an engine that will run to TBO and > beyond without needing to be touched. When you have your engines > done, go with a quality builder and I'd strongly suggest factory new > cylinders. Factory Lyc jugs are good for a trouble-free TBO run. By > the time they've accumulated 2000hrs, they almost all have significant > metal fatigue and a good inspection will usually find small cracks > beginning to form. Sure, they can be welded up and re-worked, but > it's unlikely that you'll have another reliable run to TBO. Out of my > 12 cylinders with 2000 hrs since new, we found cracks in 10 of them at > teardown. I'll let someone else re-use them then have to top one or > two every few hundred hours. Spend a few minutes looking at > trade-a-plane to prove my point. You'll find tons of 800 SMOH, 200 > STOP engines out there. > ya tend to get what you pay for..... > chris > > or.... "it all depends".... :-) > >


    Message 15


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    Time: 05:59:29 PM PST US
    From: Bruce Campbell <brcamp@windows.microsoft.com>
    Subject: Re: Fly-in
    I wouldn't do Victor's. I've seen *big* problems with customer service. If you are in the NorCal area, you could solicit some advice from the folks at sacramento sky ranch. OR, probably best, get a reman from the factory, which accrues to value of the aircraft. -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 5:26 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Fly-in John, I If you have not gone through an engine shop you should see one. Victor Engines right on the Palo Alto shop is a very high end engine shop. Get them to give you a tour. It is an experience. They do not have a tolerance on weight of parts. They will go thought a bunch of pistons to match 6 just alike. Same goes for piston rods, and other things. I went through their shop over 10 years ago. I understand Lyc has roller cam lifters now. Tylor Hall On Aug 13, 2008, at 6:11 PM, John Vormbaum wrote: > <john@vormbaum.com> > > Chris, sounds like assembling airplane engines is as much art as > science! > > Chris wrote: >> >> >>>> I didn't do the dynamic prop balancing. I sort of imagine that >>>> case cracks are due to the crank....if it doesn't crack, your >>>> crank is good. If it does crack, your crank isn't as well >>>> balanced as it could be. >> >> There are some pretty significant quality differences between a >> typical field overhaul and one done by a true expert. A precision >> builder will match the con rod weights then balance both the big >> and small ends. Carefully matched counterweights with good, true >> bushings will help significantly as well. The crank can be spin >> balanced with counterweights in place for a final bottom end >> check. A really careful builder will sort through many new pistons >> to find parts that are closely matched, then install them opposite >> of each other. If all of these steps are taken, you'll have an >> incredibly smooth engine that will be highly unlikely to develop >> cracks. Accessory, instrument, and airframe problems associated >> with vibration are all also minimized. >> chris >> >> >> >> >> >> . >> > >


    Message 16


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    Time: 07:11:13 PM PST US
    From: "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Fly-in
    Tylor, How can they not have a tolerance on weight or parts? There is always a tolerance on balance jobs, just as there must be a tolerance on all machined objects. Do you remember what there tolerance is? As I remember Victor consulted with the late Keith Black of Keith Black Racing Engines back in the 80's when balancing became an issue for them (Victor). At that time Keith was using Gary Thompson of Automotive Balance Service for his balancing and their standard tolerance was plus or minus one gram. Also, while I heartily concur that it is generally a good idea to replace the cylinders with Lycoming new, this certainly does not guarantee a trouble free engine. I have had the top portion of three exhaust valve guides fail (they brake into many small pieces and you find them in the oil screen, the valve cover and the oil filter) for no apparent reason when they had between 400 and 600 hours on them in my IGSO540B1A engines. Regards, Moe N680RR 680F(p) -------------------------------------------------- From: "Tylor Hall" <tylor.hall@sbcglobal.net> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 5:26 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Fly-in > <tylor.hall@sbcglobal.net> > > John, I > If you have not gone through an engine shop you should see one. > > Victor Engines right on the Palo Alto shop is a very high end engine > shop. Get them to give you a tour. > It is an experience. > They do not have a tolerance on weight of parts. They will go thought a > bunch of pistons to match 6 just alike. > Same goes for piston rods, and other things. > > I went through their shop over 10 years ago. > > I understand Lyc has roller cam lifters now. > > Tylor Hall > > On Aug 13, 2008, at 6:11 PM, John Vormbaum wrote: > >> >> Chris, sounds like assembling airplane engines is as much art as >> science! >> >> Chris wrote: >>> >>> >>>>> I didn't do the dynamic prop balancing. I sort of imagine that case >>>>> cracks are due to the crank....if it doesn't crack, your crank is >>>>> good. If it does crack, your crank isn't as well balanced as it could >>>>> be. >>> >>> There are some pretty significant quality differences between a typical >>> field overhaul and one done by a true expert. A precision builder will >>> match the con rod weights then balance both the big and small ends. >>> Carefully matched counterweights with good, true bushings will help >>> significantly as well. The crank can be spin balanced with >>> counterweights in place for a final bottom end check. A really careful >>> builder will sort through many new pistons to find parts that are >>> closely matched, then install them opposite of each other. If all of >>> these steps are taken, you'll have an incredibly smooth engine that >>> will be highly unlikely to develop cracks. Accessory, instrument, and >>> airframe problems associated with vibration are all also minimized. >>> chris >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> . >>> >> >> >> >> > > >


    Message 17


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    Time: 10:22:41 PM PST US
    From: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
    Subject: Re: Fly-in
    If you don't object, I'd like to put that on the website. -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 11:19 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Fly-in Steve, I'll share what I find with the group. /John Steve at Col-East wrote: > <steve2@sover.net> > > I think we'd second or third Divco. > > Sure as heck not an 'authority', but a couple sweet running narrow > case engines have started wearing the cam lobes that are pulling > double duty, somewhere around >1750 or so for us. > > Guess I'm geeky enough to be real interested in a teardown report on > both your good and bad mill. > > Steve > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com> > To: <commander-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 1:27 PM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Fly-in > > >> --> <john@vormbaum.com> >> >> Chris, >> >> John Towner also recommended Divco. I'll check them out. >> >> The case is probably repairable; it's just that we have to split it, >> which means new bearings, and then why not top it.....but then why >> not just do a complete overhaul? And if I'm going to pay for that and >> my other engine is past TBO, why not get the wide decks? >> >> I didn't do the dynamic prop balancing. I sort of imagine that case >> cracks are due to the crank....if it doesn't crack, your crank is >> good. If it does crack, your crank isn't as well balanced as it could >> be. My other engine has >1,600 SMOH and runs like a swiss watch. I >> just have a good engine on that side. This engine has ~800 hours and >> has been responsible for 70% of my engine difficulties in the near >> decade I've owned my airplane. >> >> /J >> >> Chris wrote: >>> >>> John Vormbaum wrote: >>>> >>>> Hey, maybe this is my opportunity to step up to wide-deck engines. >>> >>> Sorry to hear about your trauma John. That's certainly no fun and >>> is going to cost some money to deal with. The wide-deck engines are >>> certainly more desirable, but a well-built narrow-deck is a good >>> engine too. No idea if your case is repairable or not since I >>> haven't seen it, but Divco in Tulsa, OK does a LOT of Lycoming case >>> repairs and they really know their stuff. Just out of curiosity, >>> have you had your engines/props balanced? A really smoothly >>> balanced engine will have a lot fewer problems with case cracks and >>> fretting. >>> >>> >>> chris >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> . >>> >> >> >> > >


    Message 18


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    Time: 10:46:00 PM PST US
    From: John Vormbaum <john@vormbaum.com>
    Subject: Re: Fly-in
    Absolutely....as soon as I hear. /J nico css wrote: > > If you don't object, I'd like to put that on the website. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John > Vormbaum > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 11:19 AM > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Fly-in > > > Steve, I'll share what I find with the group. > > /John > > Steve at Col-East wrote: > >> <steve2@sover.net> >> >> I think we'd second or third Divco. >> >> Sure as heck not an 'authority', but a couple sweet running narrow >> case engines have started wearing the cam lobes that are pulling >> double duty, somewhere around >1750 or so for us. >> >> Guess I'm geeky enough to be real interested in a teardown report on >> both your good and bad mill. >> >> Steve >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com> >> To: <commander-list@matronics.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 1:27 PM >> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Fly-in >> >> >> >>> --> <john@vormbaum.com> >>> >>> Chris, >>> >>> John Towner also recommended Divco. I'll check them out. >>> >>> The case is probably repairable; it's just that we have to split it, >>> which means new bearings, and then why not top it.....but then why >>> not just do a complete overhaul? And if I'm going to pay for that and >>> my other engine is past TBO, why not get the wide decks? >>> >>> I didn't do the dynamic prop balancing. I sort of imagine that case >>> cracks are due to the crank....if it doesn't crack, your crank is >>> good. If it does crack, your crank isn't as well balanced as it could >>> be. My other engine has >1,600 SMOH and runs like a swiss watch. I >>> just have a good engine on that side. This engine has ~800 hours and >>> has been responsible for 70% of my engine difficulties in the near >>> decade I've owned my airplane. >>> >>> /J >>> >>> Chris wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> John Vormbaum wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hey, maybe this is my opportunity to step up to wide-deck engines. >>>>> >>>> Sorry to hear about your trauma John. That's certainly no fun and >>>> is going to cost some money to deal with. The wide-deck engines are >>>> certainly more desirable, but a well-built narrow-deck is a good >>>> engine too. No idea if your case is repairable or not since I >>>> haven't seen it, but Divco in Tulsa, OK does a LOT of Lycoming case >>>> repairs and they really know their stuff. Just out of curiosity, >>>> have you had your engines/props balanced? A really smoothly >>>> balanced engine will have a lot fewer problems with case cracks and >>>> fretting. >>>> >>>> >>>> chris >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >


    Message 19


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    Time: 11:16:25 PM PST US
    From: "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo@precisionmanuals.com>
    Subject: Re: Fly-in
    John- Sorry to hear about your cracked case. That is a lousy way to wind up the summer- especially given how little of it was flyable on account of the fact that California decided to immolate itself this year... I was amazed to see you've owned your commander for nearly a decade! For some reason I thought you were more recently acquainted than this! Hope you get back in the air soon! Robert S. Randazzo N414C -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 10:45 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Fly-in Absolutely....as soon as I hear. /J nico css wrote: <nico@cybersuperstore.com> > > If you don't object, I'd like to put that on the website. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John > Vormbaum > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 11:19 AM > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Fly-in > > > Steve, I'll share what I find with the group. > > /John > > Steve at Col-East wrote: > >> <steve2@sover.net> >> >> I think we'd second or third Divco. >> >> Sure as heck not an 'authority', but a couple sweet running narrow >> case engines have started wearing the cam lobes that are pulling >> double duty, somewhere around >1750 or so for us. >> >> Guess I'm geeky enough to be real interested in a teardown report on >> both your good and bad mill. >> >> Steve >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com> >> To: <commander-list@matronics.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 1:27 PM >> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Fly-in >> >> >> >>> --> <john@vormbaum.com> >>> >>> Chris, >>> >>> John Towner also recommended Divco. I'll check them out. >>> >>> The case is probably repairable; it's just that we have to split it, >>> which means new bearings, and then why not top it.....but then why >>> not just do a complete overhaul? And if I'm going to pay for that and >>> my other engine is past TBO, why not get the wide decks? >>> >>> I didn't do the dynamic prop balancing. I sort of imagine that case >>> cracks are due to the crank....if it doesn't crack, your crank is >>> good. If it does crack, your crank isn't as well balanced as it could >>> be. My other engine has >1,600 SMOH and runs like a swiss watch. I >>> just have a good engine on that side. This engine has ~800 hours and >>> has been responsible for 70% of my engine difficulties in the near >>> decade I've owned my airplane. >>> >>> /J >>> >>> Chris wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> John Vormbaum wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hey, maybe this is my opportunity to step up to wide-deck engines. >>>>> >>>> Sorry to hear about your trauma John. That's certainly no fun and >>>> is going to cost some money to deal with. The wide-deck engines are >>>> certainly more desirable, but a well-built narrow-deck is a good >>>> engine too. No idea if your case is repairable or not since I >>>> haven't seen it, but Divco in Tulsa, OK does a LOT of Lycoming case >>>> repairs and they really know their stuff. Just out of curiosity, >>>> have you had your engines/props balanced? A really smoothly >>>> balanced engine will have a lot fewer problems with case cracks and >>>> fretting. >>>> >>>> >>>> chris >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >




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