Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:28 AM - Re: Aerodynamics (Keith S. Gordon)
2. 06:08 AM - Re: Aerodynamics (Moe-rosspistons)
3. 06:28 AM - Re: Aerodynamics (MASON CHEVAILLIER)
4. 07:33 AM - left leaning commanders (Dan Farmer)
5. 07:40 AM - Re: Aerodynamics (Jim Addington)
6. 10:53 AM - Fw: fly in (Donnie Rose)
7. 10:53 AM - Fw: fly in (Donnie Rose)
8. 11:33 AM - Re: left leaning commanders (Tom Fisher)
9. 11:36 AM - Re: Fw: fly in (Robert S. Randazzo)
10. 11:52 AM - TCFG Fly-In (yourtcfg@aol.com)
11. 11:52 AM - Re: Aerodynamics (Tom Fisher)
12. 06:09 PM - Re: Fw: fly in (Donnie Rose)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Aerodynamics |
Tom,
Since the models 680 and below do not have aileron trim, both roll and yaw trim
is done via rudder.?
I'd check the fixed trim tab on the aileron first (making a tiny correction since
you only notice what I think is left roll at high speed).?? Aileron rigging
would then be the next and more difficult thing to do.
If that doesn't work I can claim that I'm up too early and should not be trying
to answer aerodynamics questions instead of checking weather and flight planning
-- which I must do right now.?
Best,
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
Sent: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 9:11 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
An aerodynamic question.
As I push the speed over 180MPH to 200 - 250MPH, I need to
start cranking in right rudder to keep trimmed.
I cannot see any asymmetrical issues with the rudder
itself.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Aerodynamics |
Dear Commander Folks:
As always the event was most enjoyable. Also, as could be expected my
Commander got me home safe and sound.
While speaking to Jack Chappell's daughter, I failed to get her contact
information. Could anyone please help me in this regard.
A special big thanks to JB for presenting me with the Golden Pedal
Award. As I was driving back from N19 to my house I saw my neighbor out
in his yard. You can't believe how impressed he, his wife, and two
daughters were when I explained to them that in order to get the award
that:
A. I had to have the best paint job and ramp appearance of any Commander
there
B. That I won the 20 mile pylon race
C. I won the Commander knowledge contest
D. Ditto the ground handling contest
E. Ditto the beer drinking contest at The Wormy Dog
Our fearless leaders presentation of this award to me has elevated my
standing in our new community an almost immeasurable amount. Later
today, my neighbors wife is calling The Farmington Daily News to insist
that they do a human interest article on me including a photo of me and
the Golden Pedal.
Again, thanks!
Moe Mills
Current holder of the Golden Pedal Award
N680RR
680Fp
From: Keith S. Gordon
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
Tom,
Since the models 680 and below do not have aileron trim, both roll and
yaw trim is done via rudder.
I'd check the fixed trim tab on the aileron first (making a tiny
correction since you only notice what I think is left roll at high
speed). Aileron rigging would then be the next and more difficult
thing to do.
If that doesn't work I can claim that I'm up too early and should not be
trying to answer aerodynamics questions instead of checking weather and
flight planning -- which I must do right now.
Best,
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
Sent: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 9:11 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
An aerodynamic question.
As I push the speed over 180MPH to 200 - 250MPH, I need to start
cranking in right rudder to keep trimmed.
I cannot see any asymmetrical issues with the rudder itself.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
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Message 3
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ditto to all involved w/ the get together @ PWA. thank you. gmc
From: moe-rosspistons@hotmail.comTo: commander-list@matronics.comSubject: R
e: Commander-List: AerodynamicsDate: Mon=2C 22 Sep 2008 06:08:06 -0700
Dear Commander Folks:
As always the event was most enjoyable. Also=2C as could be expected my Co
mmander got me home safe and sound.
While speaking to Jack Chappell's daughter=2C I failed to get her contact i
nformation. Could anyone please help me in this regard.
A special big thanks to JB for presenting me with the Golden Pedal Award. A
s I was driving back from N19 to my house I saw my neighbor out in his yard
. You can't believe how impressed he=2C his wife=2C and two daughters were
when I explained to them that in order to get the award that:
A. I had to have the best paint job and ramp appearance of any Commander th
ere
B. That I won the 20 mile pylon race
C. I won the Commander knowledge contest
D. Ditto the ground handling contest
E. Ditto the beer drinking contest at The Wormy Dog
Our fearless leaders presentation of this award to me has elevated my stan
ding in our new community an almost immeasurable amount. Later today=2C my
neighbors wife is calling The Farmington Daily News to insist that they do
a human interest article on me including a photo of me and the Golden Peda
l.
Again=2C thanks!
Moe Mills
Current holder of the Golden Pedal Award
N680RR
680Fp
From: Keith S. Gordon
Sent: Monday=2C September 22=2C 2008 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
Tom=2CSince the models 680 and below do not have aileron trim=2C both roll
and yaw trim is done via rudder. I'd check the fixed trim tab on the ailer
on first (making a tiny correction since you only notice what I think is le
ft roll at high speed). Aileron rigging would then be the next and more d
ifficult thing to do.If that doesn't work I can claim that I'm up too early
and should not be trying to answer aerodynamics questions instead of check
ing weather and flight planning -- which I must do right now. Best=2CWing
Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----From: Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>To
: commander-list@matronics.comSent: Sun=2C 21 Sep 2008 9:11 pmSubject: Comm
ander-List: Aerodynamics
An aerodynamic question.
As I push the speed over 180MPH to 200 - 250MPH=2C I need to start cranking
in right rudder to keep trimmed.
I cannot see any asymmetrical issues with the rudder itself.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages!
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 4
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| Subject: | left leaning commanders |
Tom, -I think you-may have one of the few democrat commanders- as you g
o faster and faster consuming more and more fuel ie, money the air craft te
nds to veer more and more to the left and it will take quite a lot more rig
ht rudder to bring the aircraft back to true.-
-
ANOTHER GREAT FLY IN--Thanks to Jim and Sue and all the wonder people at WP
A and the "OLD" commander factory folks.- Very very interesting.- I wis
h all could attend.
Thanks to every one that makes it possible and again the Metzgers are terri
fic--even if- 222JS does have a dirty tail:-))))))))))))))
-
dan farmer
--- On Mon, 9/22/08, Commander-List Digest Server <commander-list@matronics
.com> wrote:
From: Commander-List Digest Server <commander-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Commander-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/21/08
*
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Total Messages Posted Sun 09/21/08: 1
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Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:10 PM - Aerodynamics (Tom Fisher)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 09:10:20 PM PST US
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
An aerodynamic question.
As I push the speed over 180MPH to 200 - 250MPH, I need to start
cranking in right rudder to keep trimmed.
I cannot see any asymmetrical issues with the rudder itself.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
=0A=0A=0A
Message 5
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I sure had a good time as always. I did learn that you really have to watch
your six O'clock though. People will steal your chicken and well it can end
up a smelly situation, and they will put chocks in front of your wheels when
your back is turned after your preflight. The guys from down under and up
north do things in Hooters you can't believe but I love you all to death
anyway and hope everyone made and make it home safe.
Jim Addington
N444BD 500A
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MASON
CHEVAILLIER
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 8:28 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
ditto to all involved w/ the get together @ PWA. thank you. gmc
_____
From: moe-rosspistons@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
Dear Commander Folks:
As always the event was most enjoyable. Also, as could be expected my
Commander got me home safe and sound.
While speaking to Jack Chappell's daughter, I failed to get her contact
information. Could anyone please help me in this regard.
A special big thanks to JB for presenting me with the Golden Pedal Award. As
I was driving back from N19 to my house I saw my neighbor out in his yard.
You can't believe how impressed he, his wife, and two daughters were when I
explained to them that in order to get the award that:
A. I had to have the best paint job and ramp appearance of any Commander
there
B. That I won the 20 mile pylon race
C. I won the Commander knowledge contest
D. Ditto the ground handling contest
E. Ditto the beer drinking contest at The Wormy Dog
Our fearless leaders presentation of this award to me has elevated my
standing in our new community an almost immeasurable amount. Later today,
my neighbors wife is calling The Farmington Daily News to insist that they
do a human interest article on me including a photo of me and the Golden
Pedal.
Again, thanks!
Moe Mills
Current holder of the Golden Pedal Award
N680RR
680Fp
From: Keith S. Gordon <mailto:cloudcraft@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
Tom,
Since the models 680 and below do not have aileron trim, both roll and yaw
trim is done via rudder.
I'd check the fixed trim tab on the aileron first (making a tiny correction
since you only notice what I think is left roll at high speed). Aileron
rigging would then be the next and more difficult thing to do.
If that doesn't work I can claim that I'm up too early and should not be
trying to answer aerodynamics questions instead of checking weather and
flight planning -- which I must do right now.
Best,
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
Sent: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 9:11 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
An aerodynamic question.
As I push the speed over 180MPH to 200 - 250MPH, I need to start cranking in
right rudder to keep trimmed.
I cannot see any asymmetrical issues with the rudder itself.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
_____
Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow
<http://yellowpages.aol.com/?NCID=emlweusyelp00000001> Pages!
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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=0AThank you Jim and Sue for a wonderfull meeting, sure enjoyed meeting all
of you. Attached is a picture of the voyage home seen only the way we can!
=0AFly Safe...=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A-N69PT=0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 7
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=0A=0A=0AThank you Jim and Sue for a wonderfull meeting, sure enjoyed meeti
ng all of you. Attached is a picture of the voyage home seen only the way w
e can!=0AFly Safe...=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A-N69PT=0A=0A
=0A=0A
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: left leaning commanders |
There may be something to that.
T...
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Farmer
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 7:33 AM
Subject: Commander-List: left leaning commanders
Tom, I think you may have one of the few democrat commanders-
as you go faster and faster consuming more and more fuel ie, money the
air craft tends to veer more and more to the left and it will take quite
a lot more right rudder to bring the aircraft back to true.
ANOTHER GREAT FLY IN--Thanks to Jim and Sue and all the wonder
people at WPA and the "OLD" commander factory folks. Very very
interesting. I wish all could attend.
Thanks to every one that makes it possible and again the
Metzgers are terrific--even if 222JS does have a dirty
tail:-))))))))))))))
dan farmer
--- On Mon, 9/22/08, Commander-List Digest Server
<commander-list@matronics.com> wrote:
From: Commander-List Digest Server
<commander-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Commander-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/21/08
To: "Commander-List Digest List"
<commander-list-digest@matronics.com>
Date: Monday, September 22, 2008, 12:55 AM
*
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of
the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
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Chapter 08-09-21&Archive=Commander
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hapter 08-09-21&Archive=Commander
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Total Messages Posted Sun 09/21/08: 1
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:10 PM - Aerodynamics (Tom Fisher)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 09:10:20 PM PST US
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
An aerodynamic question.
As I push the speed over 180MPH to 200 - 250MPH, I need to start
cranking in right rudder to keep trimmed.
I cannot see any asymmetrical issues with the rudder itself.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
Message 9
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Donnie-
Was that the last thing the bird saw before he hit the windshield? J
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 10:53 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Fw: fly in
Thank you Jim and Sue for a wonderfull meeting, sure enjoyed meeting all of
you. Attached is a picture of the voyage home seen only the way we can!
Fly Safe...
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
N69PT
Message 10
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We arrived safely at home last night around 6:00pm (7 hours and 50 minutes flying
time).? Clear skies until the last 15 minutes of maneuvering through clouds
and rain through the Columbia River Gorge.? Not a problem for the 680E though.?
A great BIG thank you to all of you who attended this year's Fly-In.? You're such
a great group of people to be around and we feel blessed to count you as our
friends.?
How amazing it was to hear from people who were at the factory in the early days
and to hear from Ted Smith's son.? The information, photos, drawings, newspaper
clippings and other items they brought to share with us were pretty awesome
too!!? Cool to see the prototype in person as well.? All in all it was a rare
opportunity to get first hand perspective about the history of the awesome birds
we fly and meet with people who are passionate about Aero Commanders.? Those
of you who missed it missed out on a once in a lifetime opportunity to be
around that kind of history.??
And, a huge thank you to all of you who were so generous during the Auction.? We
set a record this year raising $3400 which was given to the fund for restoring
the Prototype AeroCommander (L-3805) so it can be put in a museum.? WOW!!!!?
More information (ummm.....stories) to follow in the next issue of Flight?Group
news.?
?
Again, thanks again from the bottom of our hearts for making this another great
Fly-In.??
Jim & Sue Metzger?
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Aerodynamics |
Thanks Keith, I will pursue that angle, (pun).
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith S. Gordon
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
Tom,
Since the models 680 and below do not have aileron trim, both roll and
yaw trim is done via rudder.
I'd check the fixed trim tab on the aileron first (making a tiny
correction since you only notice what I think is left roll at high
speed). Aileron rigging would then be the next and more difficult
thing to do.
If that doesn't work I can claim that I'm up too early and should not
be trying to answer aerodynamics questions instead of checking weather
and flight planning -- which I must do right now.
Best,
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Fisher <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 9:11 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Aerodynamics
An aerodynamic question.
As I push the speed over 180MPH to 200 - 250MPH, I need to start
cranking in right rudder to keep trimmed.
I cannot see any asymmetrical issues with the rudder itself.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages!
Message 12
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That would scare the hell out of um, huh? =0A=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/49
2-8444=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Robert S. Randazzo
<rsrandazzo@precisionmanuals.com>=0ATo: commander-list@matronics.com=0ASen
t: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:35:08 PM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: Fw:
fly in=0A=0A=0ADonnie-=0A-=0AWas that the last thing the bird saw before
he hit the windshield?- J=0A-=0ARobert S. Randazzo=0AN414C=0A-=0A-
=0AFrom:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-l
ist-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose=0ASent: Monday, Septembe
r 22, 2008 10:53 AM=0ATo: commander-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Commander
-List: Fw: fly in=0A-=0A-=0AThank you Jim and Sue for a wonderfull meet
ing, sure enjoyed meeting all of you. Attached is a picture of the voyage h
ome seen only the way we can!=0AFly Safe...=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-
-========================
====================0A=0A=0A
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