Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:18 AM - Re: Wing lost in flight (John Vormbaum)
2. 04:52 AM - Re: auto engines. Was: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation (BobsV35B@aol.com)
3. 05:13 AM - Re: auto engines. Was: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation (Chris)
4. 05:48 AM - Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation (Bill Hamilton)
5. 07:14 AM - Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation (willis robison)
6. 07:34 AM - (Jim Addington)
7. 08:04 AM - Re: (willis robison)
8. 09:07 AM - Re: Design Information (willis robison)
9. 09:13 AM - Re: (yourtcfg@aol.com)
10. 09:22 AM - Re: (willis robison)
11. 09:29 AM - Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation (David Owens)
12. 09:35 AM - Re: (nico css)
13. 09:36 AM - Re: (Jim Addington)
14. 09:37 AM - Re: (Tom Fisher)
15. 10:05 AM - Re: (willis robison)
16. 10:49 AM - Re: ()
17. 11:22 AM - Re: (willis robison)
18. 12:34 PM - Re: (Don)
19. 12:50 PM - Re: (nico css)
20. 01:25 PM - Re: (Don)
21. 01:48 PM - Re: (willis robison)
22. 02:04 PM - Re: (BobsV35B@aol.com)
23. 02:04 PM - Re: (Don)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Wing lost in flight |
Um, you are all aware that that was a CGI video, and not real, right?
The RC model pilot did a fantastic job though, Nico...I've seen that
video and it was great!
nico css wrote:
> I saw a model plane do that. That took guts and a clear head. I bet he
> needed new underwear after that.
> Great stuff, Tom.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom
> Fisher
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:03 PM
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: Wing lost in flight
>
> This is an amazing YOU TUBE video.
>
> Notlandung: Der beste Pilot ever! | chilloutzone.de - free games and
> free fun <http://www.chilloutzone.de/files/08102703.html>
>
> Tom
>
> C-GISS
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* willis robison <mailto:drwer2@yahoo.com>
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:56 PM
> *Subject:* RE: Commander-List: Recip vs. turbine
>
> Modern turbine engines on FADECs, set to emergency power, the
> control loop eliminates all but the EGT probes(TiT). So the
> engines would produce as much power as the turbine section could
> handle, they would be VERY HOT indeed. No Inlet control, no
> torque control....nada. As the Turbine inlet temp maxed out, then
> the control would ramp back the fuel servos. In the meantime, you
> would get a ridiculous amount of power.
>
> At least thats how its done on PWC and GE engines. I dont know
> about RR or BMW but Id guess the control laws are similar.
>
> wer
>
> --- On *Wed, 10/29/08, nico css /<nico@cybersuperstore.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: nico css <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Recip vs. turbine
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 4:51 PM
>
> Exactly my sentiments. It's just a shaft with blades on it.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf
> Of *Don
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:21 PM
> *To:* commander-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Commander-List: Recip vs. turbine
>
>
>
>
>
> "While there may be a certain amount of ego associated
> with transitioning to Turbines, "
>
> I concede the fuel efficiency to props, be they recip or
> turbo, but if I am ever in a life threating emergency,
> give me a high bypass turbojet. They just hang together
> and produce power, lots and lots of power, push it to the
> stops and keep it there, it may redline and need changed
> on the ground but it will get you back to the hanger for
> the engine change. Seems like I remember being told
> something like, 'the last 10% of the throttle movement
> produces 90% of the power', do know, in reverse the
> difference between 80% and 90% is very amazing on a snow
> covered short runway, about a thousand feet on a DC-9, at
> max gross.
>
> I have a friend who was on an A-300 with GE engines when
> they encountered a very severe emergency, involving a 45
> degree pitch-up on a go around, airspeed dropped well
> below 100 knots. The engines were firewalled and all
> indicator were pegged beyond the red line. Needless to
> say they survived, but computer readout showed the engines
> produced almost 100,000 lbs thrust, double the rating.
> Don't know why the fuel controls let them get this high,
> maybe the low airspeed, not sure. The engines were
> borascoped and not even changed. Try that with a recip
> engine!
>
> Personally, I'm glad I was not on the flight, but I
> have several thousand hours in turbines and have never
> lost an engine or had an emergency, a few minor problems
> yes, but never an emergency, more than I can say with
> recips. A certain Turbo compounded R-3350 comes to mind.
>
> I baby my engines as I pay the bills, but also because I
> am on board, but I have always felt, turbines especially
> turbojets will take much more abuse, and like the old
> Timex commercial, 'it keeps on ticking'.
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
> *
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> 3D============================================
> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> 3D============================================
> href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
> 3D============================================
> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> 3D============================================
>
> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 3568 (20081030) __________
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Message 2
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Subject: | Re: auto engines. Was: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Good Morning jb,
I have no doubt that what you say is true, but it was presented to the
Beechcraft world as a replacement engine for the King Air. A couple of my friends
have (now 'had'!) Turbo Commanders and it was also discussed in their world.
When it was discussed within those groups, the interest was as I reported.
No doubt other groups felt differently.
Since I am certain I will never be able to afford a King Air, Turbo
Commander, or even a non turboed Commander, the whole idea was and is to me, merely
an intellectual curiosity.
Like most wannabes, I am always interested in new ideas that may provide
better motive power than is now available. After watching the development of
automobile engine powered aircraft for many years, I have come to the point
where I still hope all the new thinkers well, but I fear there is no free lunch.
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 10/30/2008 12:03:57 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
yourtcfg@aol.com writes:
That may be true, but the ORENDA project, as conceived by Dick Macoon, was
not intended to compete with turbines. They were replacements for the recip
fleet. The test airplane was a 685, piston Commander, not a turbo
Commander.. They were also certified on the single otter, replacing the geared
1340.
jb
**************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot
5 Travel Deals!
(http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001)
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: auto engines. Was: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
> After watching the development of automobile engine powered aircraft
> for many years, I have come to the point where I still hope all the
> new thinkers well, but I fear there is no free lunch.
Yup.... exactly.
I think the effort made by Honda a few years back was very telling of
the realities of aircraft engines. They announced that they were going
to undertake a well funded "clean slate" engine design. No
preconceptions on any aspect - everything would be evaluated. So, after
years of R&D and millions of dollars, what did some of the worlds best
engine engineers come up with???
A large bore, direct drive, 360 cid 4 cylinder air cooled opposed engine
that made around 180hp. Basicly, a clone of the Lycoming IO-360 but
prettier. Says a lot, eh?
chris
Message 4
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Subject: | AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Folks,
I have had some involvement (automotive) that had a bearing on the problems
of the Orenda, and some of the other efforts to "aerofy" automotive engines.
Although of different engineering origin, the recent technical (not
financial/management) problems of Thielert engines have been related to the
auto origins of the engine.
There are some interesting and virtually insoluble problems of physics with
the traditional firing order of a 90 degree V-8, but if you go to a "flat
plane" crank (as per competition V-8's) you get vibration that is
uncomfortable in an auto or an aircraft.
It's all a while ago, but a fading memory tells me that it is No.5 big end
that has a life measured in seconds, with any interruption of lubrication,
in the traditional crank/firing order, if we could do an Orenda with a flat
plane crank (as I believe might have been tried) and produce a solution to
the vibration, so that you didn't destroy the prop. or the surrounding
aeroplane, you would have a goer.
Again trusting to memory, there was a problem with moving cylinder sleeves
in the Orenda, the cost of re-design to eliminate this problem was probably
at least one nail in the coffin. Remember, "rules" for Ag. Engines are not
quite the same as for a "standard" cat. C.of A aeroplane.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
AC-500A ZK-DCF
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
That may be true, but the ORENDA project, as conceived by Dick Macoon, was
not intended to compete with turbines. They were replacements for the recip
fleet. The test airplane was a 685, piston Commander, not a turbo
Commander.. They were also certified on the single otter, replacing the
geared 1340. jb
I am not sure if it would have met it's claims, but even if it did, my
impression was that the Turbine owners I knew would not buy it!
-----Original Message-----
From: BobsV35B@aol.com
Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 5:11 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Good Evening Chris,
Well, I do not find that I am disagreeing with you!<G>
What I stated was that when I asked my King Air and Turbine Commander owner
friends what they thought of the Orenda conversion, the universal answer was
that there was no way they would trade their turbines for a hopped up Chevy
design even if it did perform better and had lower fuel burn. I did not find
a single owner who was interested in getting the conversion. I am not sure
if it would have met it's claims, but even if it did, my impression was that
the Turbine owners I knew would not buy it!
Admittedly, mine was a small and probably not significant sample, but I was
surprised at the resistance I found.
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 10/29/2008 5:57:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
cschuerm@cox.net writes:
Wow, I would have never thought I'd disagree with Old Bob on anything,
but I have a little different perspective on this one. I suspect that
if you took a poll of Turbine Commander and King Air owners that darn
few of them have ever heard of the Orenda project, let alone evaluated
it as an option.
_____
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel
Deals! <http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001>
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Message 5
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Subject: | AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
Well there have been some sucesses,- Honda and Porsche both produced moto
rs that worked well, and were more efficient than current aero motors. they
were MUCH more complicated owing to DOHV, variable valve and ignition timi
ng as well as the require d reduction unit.- here is an overhead of the P
orsche PFM (porsche flugmoter) http://www.mooneyland.com/mooneyposter.jpg
-
The honda was similar and they both had Specific Fuel consumptions below 0.
4 pph/hp.- I think honda gave up on the piston division to commit to thie
r new Honda-Jet.
-
The real-reason you dont have Honda or Porsche emblazoned on the side of
your nacell is that Neither- could make a business model based on 1000 en
gines a year. Even if you charged-$40k each....just no money in it for co
mpanies-with stockholders,- especially the technically competent ones l
ike H or P.--
-
Would you fly in a Dodge or Ford (or chevy) powered Commander?.....it would
take a SEA-change in personality and capability.
-
Oh, and my last 2p on design via racing engines.....You cant design a clean
slate engine for competition.- You start with a Basic design engine and
make incremental modifications to achieve the design goal.- Thats why Por
sche was chosen...they already had an air-cooled, multivalve, semi-PADEC (p
artial-authority) engine-and only needed a PRU for-the propeller.
-
As memory serves, Nissan even produced 2000 hp race engines for the Pond te
am, and were somewhat successful.--They had cooling problems tho and bu
rned up thier only prototypes at Reno.-
-
-
wer-
--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Bill Hamilton <wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
From: Bill Hamilton <wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Folks,
I have had some involvement (automotive) that had a bearing on the problems
of the Orenda, and some of the other efforts to =93aerofy=94 automotive en
gines. Although of different engineering origin, the recent technical (not
financial/management) problems of Thielert engines have been related to the
auto origins of the engine.
-
There are some interesting and virtually insoluble problems of physics with
the traditional firing order of a 90 degree V-8, but if you go to a =93fla
t plane=94 crank (as per competition V-8=92s) you get vibration that is unc
omfortable in an auto or an aircraft.
-
It=92s all a while ago, but a fading memory tells me that it is No.5 big en
d that has a life measured in seconds, with any interruption of lubrication
, in the traditional crank/firing order, if we could do an Orenda with a fl
at plane crank (as I believe might have been tried) and produce a solution
to the vibration, so that you didn=92t destroy the prop. or the surrounding
aeroplane, you would have a goer.
-
Again trusting to memory, there was a problem with moving cylinder sleeves
in the Orenda, the cost of re-design to eliminate this problem was probably
at least one nail in the coffin. Remember, =93rules=94 for Ag. Engines are
not quite the same as for a =93standard=94 cat. C.of A aeroplane.
-
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
AC-500A ZK-DCF
-
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
-
That may be true, but the ORENDA project, as conceived by Dick Macoon, was
not intended to compete with turbines.- They were replacements for the re
cip fleet.- The test airplane was a 685, piston Commander, not a turbo Co
mmander..- They were also certified on the single otter, replacing the ge
ared 1340.- jb
I am not sure if it would have met it's claims, but even if it did, my impr
ession was that the Turbine owners I knew would not buy it!
-----Original Message-----
From: BobsV35B@aol.com
Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 5:11 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation
Good Evening Chris,
-
Well, I do not find that I am disagreeing with you!<G>
-
What I stated was that when I asked my King Air and Turbine Commander owner
friends what they thought of the Orenda conversion, the universal answer w
as that there was no way they would trade their turbines for a hopped up Ch
evy design even if it did perform better and had lower fuel burn. I did not
find a single owner who was interested in getting the conversion. I am not
sure if it would have met it's claims, but even if it did, my impression w
as that the Turbine owners I knew would not buy it!
-
Admittedly, mine was a small and probably not significant sample, but I was
surprised at the resistance I found.
-
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
-
In a message dated 10/29/2008 5:57:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cschuerm@
cox.net writes:
Wow, I would have never thought I'd disagree with Old Bob on anything,
but I have a little different perspective on this one.- I suspect that
if you took a poll of Turbine Commander and King Air owners that darn
few of them have ever heard of the Orenda project, let alone evaluated
it as an option.
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deal
s! - - -
-
McCain or Obama? Stay up to date on the latest from the campaign trail with
AOL News. - -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://
forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution -
=0A=0A=0A
Message 6
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You young kids have all missed the boat, round engines are the best.
Jim Addington
Subject: Engines - Rotary vs. Turbine
Between A Radial Engine And A Jet Engine
Round engines are commonly known as Radial engines. The piston Jugs
are placed in a circle. Hence "Round" engines. Turbine engines are
known as Jet engines. We gotta get rid of those turbines, they're
ruining aviation and our hearing.
A turbine is too simple minded, it has no mystery. The air travels
through it in a straight line and doesn't pick up any of the pungent
fragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat. Anybody can start a turbine.
You just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember
to move it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is harder to start.
Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style. You have to
seduce it into starting. It's like waking up a mistress On some
planes, the pilots aren't even allowed to do it. Turbines start by
whining for a while, then give a lady-like poof and start whining a
little louder.
Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click, BANG, more
rattles, another BANG, a big macho FART or two, more clicks, a lot
more smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It's
a GUY thing.
When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can
concentrate on the flight ahead. Starting turbine is like flicking on
aceiling fan:
Useful, but, hardly exciting.
When you have started his round engine successfully your Crew Chief
looks up at you like he'd let you kiss his girl, too! Turbines don't
break or catch fire often enough, which leads to aircrew boredom,
complacency and inattention. A round engine at speed looks and sounds
like it's going to blow any minute. This helps concentrate the mind.
Turbines don't have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot's
attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during long flights.
Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman Lamps. Round
engines smell like God intended machines to smell.
Pass this on to an old WWII guy (or his son, or anyone who ever flew
them) in remembrance of the "Greatest Generation".
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
Well some of these 'kids' say....Right-on-brother!
-
(funny...I havent felt like a kid since '69) Maybe thats why I like this Po
st...feel like a kid again.
-
wer
--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Jim Addington <jtaddington@verizon.net> wrote:
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington@verizon.net>
Subject: Commander-List:
You young kids have all missed the boat, round engines are the best.
Jim Addington
-
-
Subject: Engines - Rotary vs. Turbine
-
Between A Radial Engine And A Jet Engine
Round engines are commonly known as Radial engines. The piston Jugs
are placed in a circle. Hence "Round" engines. Turbine engines are
known as Jet engines. We gotta get rid of those turbines, they're
ruining aviation and our hearing.
A turbine is too simple minded, it has no mystery. The air travels
through it in a straight line and doesn't pick up any of the pungent
fragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat. Anybody can start a turbine.
You just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember
to move it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is harder to start.
Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style. You have to
seduce it into starting. It's like waking up a mistress On some
planes, the pilots aren't even allowed to do it. Turbines start by
whining for a while, then give a lady-like poof and start whining a
little louder.
Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click, BANG, more
rattles, another BANG, a big macho FART or two, more clicks, a lot
more smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It's
a GUY thing.
When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can
concentrate on the flight ahead. Starting turbine is like flicking on
aceiling fan:
Useful, but, hardly exciting.
When you have started his round engine successfully your Crew Chief
looks up at you like he'd let you kiss his girl, too! Turbines don't
break or catch fire often enough, which leads to aircrew boredom,
complacency and inattention. A round engine at speed looks and sounds
like it's going to blow any minute. This helps concentrate the mind.
Turbines don't have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot's
attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during long flights.
Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman Lamps. Round
engines smell like God intended machines to smell.
Pass this on to an old WWII guy (or his son, or anyone who ever flew
them) in remembrance of the "Greatest Generation".
-
-
-
-
-=0A=0A=0A
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Design Information |
Im trying to find any of the original design data for the 500 to 680 series
aircraft.- Im trying to locate the L/D curves for any one of these model
s.
-
thanks.
-
wer=0A=0A=0A
Message 9
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GREAT STUFF.? I flew my P&W,?R-985 last night looking at the fall foliage, the
start procedures is just like that!!!? I could ad that even the shut down is cool.?
Hold the brakes, don't point the prop blast at anything important.? Advance
the throttle to about 1500RPM?and slowly move the mix to idle cut off.? Then
as the engine winds down,?close the throttle.? This scavenges oil out of the
sump, back to the tank after the taxi.? Not a bad idea in a Commander with geared
engine ether, they are "dry sump" just like a radial.? jb
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington@verizon.net>
Sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 7:29 am
Subject: Commander-List:
You young kids have all missed the boat, round engines are the best.
Jim Addington
?
?
Subject: Engines - Rotary vs. Turbine
?
Between A Radial Engine And A Jet Engine
Round engines are commonly known as Radial engines. The piston Jugs
are placed in a circle. Hence "Round" engines. Turbine engines are
known as Jet engines. We gotta get rid of those turbines, they're
ruining aviation and our hearing.
A turbine is too simple minded, it has no mystery. The air travels
through it in a straight line and doesn't pick up any of the pungent
fragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat. Anybody can start a turbine.
You just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember
to move it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is harder to start.
Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style. You have to
seduce it into starting. It's like waking up a mistress On some
planes, the pilots aren't even allowed to do it. Turbines start by
whining for a while, then give a lady-like poof and start whining a
little louder.
Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click, BANG, more
rattles, another BANG, a big macho FART or two, more clicks, a lot
more smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It's
a GUY thing.
When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can
concentrate on the flight ahead. Starting turbine is like flicking on
aceiling fan:
Useful, but, hardly exciting.
When you have started his round engine successfully your Crew Chief
looks up at you like he'd let you kiss his girl, too! Turbines don't
break or catch fire often enough, which leads to aircrew boredom,
complacency and inattention. A round engine at speed looks and sounds
like it's going to blow any minute. This helps concentrate the mind.
Turbines don't have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot's
attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during long flights.
Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman Lamps. Round
engines smell like God intended machines to smell.
Pass this on to an old WWII guy (or his son, or anyone who ever flew
them) in remembrance of the "Greatest Generation".
?
?
?
?
?
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
Moderator:
-
Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the Commander-list?- Is th
ere anything the 'list' can to do stop it?
-
-
-
wer=0A=0A=0A
Message 11
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|
Subject: | Re: AC-680 FLP Engine RPM Fluctuation |
DON... where in Houston are you??? Are you flying Commanders now?
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
Message 12
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|
I had none, Will.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis
robison
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Moderator:
Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the Commander-list? Is there
anything the 'list' can to do stop it?
wer
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
Message 13
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|
I have not and glad, besides I have already voted.
Jim Addington
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis
robison
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Moderator:
Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the Commander-list? Is there
anything the 'list' can to do stop it?
wer
Message 14
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|
Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
I have not gotten any but I did receive a lot of "unable to deliver"
spam messages.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Moderator:
Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the
Commander-list? Is there anything the 'list' can to do stop it?
wer
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
Message 15
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Thanks...It appears to be a personal email sent from a list member....
-
they're now on the spam list.
-
wer
--- On Thu, 10/30/08, nico css <nico@cybersuperstore.com> wrote:
From: nico css <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: RE: Commander-List:
I had none, Will.
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis robison
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Moderator:
-
Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the Commander-list?- Is th
ere anything the 'list' can to do stop it?
-
-
-
wer
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'>http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com
/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
=0A=0A=0A
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
Hi Wilis, I've not been getting anything either. But often what happens
is spammers use somebody else's e-mail address (sounds like in this case
the Matronics address) - I know this because my Josh Stafford Books
e-mail address has been used by spammers. I have had a number of
flame-mail replies to my website saying they hate me for sending out
spam, will never buy my books, etc. Most unfortunate.
Regards, Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Moderator:
Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the
Commander-list? Is there anything the 'list' can to do stop it?
wer
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
Gosh, I hope that's the case.- My 'spammer" in this cas,-is a frequent
contributor and otherwise has been very helpful with things Commander relat
ed.
-
I didnt know you could hijack someones email like that.- We'll, Ill be mo
re careful from now on.
-
thanks.
-
wer
--- On Thu, 10/30/08, andrew.bridget@telus.net <andrew.bridget@telus.net> w
rote:
From: andrew.bridget@telus.net <andrew.bridget@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Hi Wilis, I've not been getting anything either. But often what happens is
spammers use somebody else's e-mail address (sounds like in this case the M
atronics address) - I know this because my Josh Stafford Books e-mail addre
ss has been used by spammers. I have had a number of flame-mail replies to
my website saying they hate me for sending out spam, will never buy my book
s, etc. Most unfortunate.
Regards, Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: willis robison
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Moderator:
-
Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the Commander-list?- Is th
ere anything the 'list' can to do stop it?
-
-
-
wer
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'>http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com
/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
=0A=0A=0A
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
"Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the
Commander-list? Is there anything the 'list' can to do stop it"
I thought that is why my computer has a "delete" button!Don
Message 19
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|
Indeed, there is a delete button. But sometimes it can be so overwhelming,
not to mention the scare it puts into a list operator when that happens
(where else did they get into?), that it is a real and expensive pest.
I live and die by my emails and receive about 300 emails a day. A couple of
years ago I hosted my own email servers and my daily email receipt rate ran
in the thousands of about 80% being spam, ugly and less ugly. Eventually I
gave up and had my servers moved to a hosted application with spam filtering
and staff that does nothing else but keep it up to date, which brought the
rate down into the low hundreds; cutting the incidences of spam down to
about 10% that still slip past the filters. I could never answer the
question of how many legitimate emails are being filtered out that I will
never receive; and how many opportunities and business mail were lost. I
would never know. To minimize the impact of a spam filter, I style the
content of my emails not to contain buzz words that would alarm the spam
filter. And if I need information from a vendor or contractor that would of
necessity have words similar to those found in spam in it, I have it faxed
to me.
We're only trying to avoid the robbers that lurk in the bushes as we go
about our business, that's the game.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
"Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the Commander-list? Is
there anything the 'list' can to do stop it"
I thought that is why my computer has a "delete" button!
Don
Message 20
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|
Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
Nico;
I don't think a political spam is "robbers that lurk in the bushes" and
as wer said he did, just put the sender in the blocked email list.
I agree, it does not belong on the list, which as I understand it, it is
not on the list, but I don't make a big deal out of it.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 3:46 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List:
Indeed, there is a delete button. But sometimes it can be so
overwhelming, not to mention the scare it puts into a list operator when
that happens (where else did they get into?), that it is a real and
expensive pest.
I live and die by my emails and receive about 300 emails a day. A
couple of years ago I hosted my own email servers and my daily email
receipt rate ran in the thousands of about 80% being spam, ugly and less
ugly. Eventually I gave up and had my servers moved to a hosted
application with spam filtering and staff that does nothing else but
keep it up to date, which brought the rate down into the low hundreds;
cutting the incidences of spam down to about 10% that still slip past
the filters. I could never answer the question of how many legitimate
emails are being filtered out that I will never receive; and how many
opportunities and business mail were lost. I would never know. To
minimize the impact of a spam filter, I style the content of my emails
not to contain buzz words that would alarm the spam filter. And if I
need information from a vendor or contractor that would of necessity
have words similar to those found in spam in it, I have it faxed to me.
We're only trying to avoid the robbers that lurk in the bushes as we
go about our business, that's the game.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:10 PM
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
"Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the
Commander-list? Is there anything the 'list' can to do stop it"
I thought that is why my computer has a "delete" button!Don
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
10/28/2008 10:04 AM
Message 21
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|
Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
Nico is just referring to spam filters in general.- There is-a tremendo
us amount of work done behind the scenes of a web-page or chat portal.- F
ilters are just an annoying fact of life.
-
Do I smell SPAM burning?....
----------------------------------------------------------
Now for something completely different.
-
Do I need an Original POH onboard or can one of the 'reprints" offered on t
he internet do the job?- Any recommendations?
-
thanks.
-
Willis.
--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Don <dongirod@bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: Don <dongirod@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Nico;
-
I don't think a political spam is "robbers that lurk in the bushes" and as
wer said he did, just put the sender in the blocked email list.
-
I agree, it-does not belong on the list, which as I understand it, it is
not on the list, but I don't make a big deal out of it.
-
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 3:46 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List:
Indeed, there is a delete button. But sometimes it can be so overwhelming,
not to mention the scare it puts into a list operator when that happens (wh
ere else did they get into?), that it is a real and expensive pest.
-
I live and die by my emails and receive about 300 emails a day. A couple of
years ago I hosted my own email servers and my daily email receipt rate ra
n in the thousands of about 80% being spam, ugly and less ugly. Eventually
I gave up and had my servers moved to a hosted application with spam filter
ing and staff that does nothing else but keep it up to date, which brought
the rate down into the low hundreds; cutting the incidences of spam down to
about 10% that still slip past the filters. I could never answer the quest
ion of how many legitimate emails are being filtered out that I will never
receive; and how many opportunities and business mail were lost. I would ne
ver know. To minimize the impact of a spam filter, I style the content of m
y emails not to contain buzz words that would alarm the spam filter. And if
I need information from a vendor or contractor that would of necessity hav
e words similar to those found in spam in it, I have it faxed to me.
-
We're only trying to avoid the robbers that lurk in the bushes as we go abo
ut our business, that's the game.
-
Nico
-
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
-
-
-
"Has anyone else been getting Election SPAM via the Commander-list?- Is t
here anything the 'list' can to do stop it"--I thought that is why my c
omputer has a "delete" button!Don-
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
- - Release Date: 10/28/2008 10:04 AM
=0A=0A=0A
Message 22
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|
Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
Good Afternoon Willis,
My read would be that you need whatever is listed in the Type Certificate
Data Sheet.
If you don't have access to the TCDS, your IA should have the information.
While I am certainly no expert on such things, if you will send me data
concerning your aircraft such as the model number and serial number, I will see
if
I can find the required information.
Happy Skies
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 10/30/2008 3:49:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
drwer2@yahoo.com writes:
Nico is just referring to spam filters in general. There is a tremendous
amount of work done behind the scenes of a web-page or chat portal. Filters
are just an annoying fact of life.
Do I smell SPAM burning?....
----------------------------------------------------------
Now for something completely different.
Do I need an Original POH onboard or can one of the 'reprints" offered on
the internet do the job? Any recommendations?
thanks.
Willis.
Message 23
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|
Subject: | Re: mander-List: |
"Do I smell SPAM burning?...."
Not from me!
To answer your question indirectly. I believe you can still
purchase POH. I have both my original and a "new one" give to me by a
friend.
Don
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