Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:02 AM - Re: Fw: Happy New Year II (Steve W)
2. 08:25 AM - Re: Fw: Happy New Year II (Steve W)
3. 08:54 AM - lessons not learned (Jim Addington)
4. 09:42 AM - Re: Fw: Happy New Year II (yourtcfg@aol.com)
5. 09:52 AM - Re: Fw: Happy New Year II (nico css)
6. 10:38 AM - Re: Fw: Happy New Year II (Steele, Bob)
7. 12:48 PM - Re: Fw: Happy New Year II (Richard & Jacqui Thompson)
8. 04:46 PM - Group Hug? Too soon? (Steve W)
9. 05:32 PM - Re: Group Hug? Too soon? (nico css)
10. 06:16 PM - ATM fraud - watch out! (nico css)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Fw: Happy New Year II |
Aww beans.....
Dan I know enough farmers who were land poor to know what you're talking
about. When Kathie and I did our market gardening we used some land of a
friend of mine in New Hampshire who was a fifth generation dairy farmer.
The town was going to try to tax the manure composting pad as a patio.
Dan this is to you personally since now I've caused you offense. As a
farmer since a kid, you've worked harder than I have. But nobody has
ever handed me anything either. I helped out in my Dad's small
struggling company since 11 or so. I've never stopped working. The house
we built is on land I cleared. I was up late last night to feed the
wood-fired oven I built for my wife's little business so she could go to
bed early and wake up at 3:00am... I've just about finished adapting an
old plow to put on the newer truck because I can't afford a new
one......Etc.. I work my ass off. That's exactly how I took your
posting...... I'm logging on to a Commander list and here's a post
telling me how I want a handout and how lazy I am. I'll likely never see
retirement. The policies that enrichened portfolios and made many people
wealthy, sold our manufacturing and now our white-collar work overseas.
The Republicans held the House and Senate for how many years? And this
is all the evil Democrats fault? Ridiculus.
Since I've said it I've got explain it. And I personally apologize to
you. But there's millions of our own people in trouble. Some of the poor
work damned hard. It just seems like some of the people who have it
best, who have had every advantage the country could offer are the
angriest of people. Propaganda cuts both ways. Michael Moore and Rush
Limbaugh are both entertainers who manipulate facts and create
caricatures of an opposite 'side' to stir passions and sell air time. A
steady diet of either has one coming to despise this 'other side'. Both
of them start with some grain of truth, but are often full of shit and
vastly over-simplistic if you actually look at the facts. Everything can
only exist as polar opposites. 'Obama is an insane baby eating radical
muslim terrorist'.... 'Barney Frank is responsible for our country's
financial meltdown'. I've seen Fox news putting on the kookiest far
lefties to knock down. The far left press is just as goofy. 'Bush is
evil'. Each side and each performer relies on demonizing others and
relieving the listener of responsibility. The extremes are unable to
ackowledge a rational center. The far left might seek to silence the far
right, but the far right has become more politically correct than left.
It's not anyone's business, but I voted for Democrats, Republicans and
Independents in this last election because in each case I thought they
were the best for (at) the job. I would welcome genuine conservatism.
How these last eight years could be called conservative in almost any
respect is way beyond me. People mostly voted for Obama because he
acquited himself well through the campain, was intelligent, and appeared
he might be able to govern competantly.
(P.S. I ain't Snow White. I watched my Father's business struggle while
others were eliglble for grants he couldn't get. I never finshed school
as others were given money and I was working full-time. The company I
work for is still competing unfairly against competant 'diasadvantaged'
businesses. I think this stuff has run it's course.)
(P.P.S. I still ain't Snow White. I'm no better than anyone else. I
genuinely don't understand how those that claim to be religious, square
the tenants and teachings with what they do and believe.)
You may not want it from me, but I genuinely wish you sir a happy,
healthy and prosperous New Year.
Steven Welebny
(Opinions are mine, and not of the company I work for.)
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Farmer
To: commander-list-digest@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:35 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
It seems I might have offended a few individuals in my
Happy New Year posting. That was not my intention. In fact I was
surprised at some of the responses. So I reread my own posting and
realized that I might have overstated my thinking. I really should not
have implied that everyone who voted for the O is lazy, although I do
believe most do want some type of hand out or make the rich pay or tax
the corporations or feel this is just a mean and unfair country. Why
would I think that? Because that is what they are generally whaling
about. Or perhaps someone, even me, is just misguided.
I think that it might be possible that since I gave up
my airline job that I have too much time to think. Or possibly since my
Dad passed away and we are dealing with estate issues-like death taxes.
Or maybe it is that I have worked on this family farm with my dad,
mother, and two brothers most of my life. From the age of 5 I have had
responsibilities and expectations from my parents as to chores with
calves to feed, cows to milk, fields to be worked. Do not think I am
feeling sorry for myself as all the family worked hard and quite
honestly I would not trade with anyone. It is not that I mind liberals
throwing their money at ghost, feeling sorry for every person and
supporting every wacky cause that comes down the pike. Including most
of the latest bailouts. (Bush is no conservative) It is when they want
to take my property-at 55 percent and transfer it to someone who has not
earned it. I do not understand. It seems to me when you tax production
and subsidize contentment you get less production and more contentment.
I have tried not to assail any particular person but as
usual I am afraid the left does not like anyone to speak but them. They
are use to having the major net works and CNN and public radio and
public television in their court for most of our lives. They hate fox
news and shout down opposite views in many forums particularly in areas
of higher education. All the while railing about the lack of free
speech. Now watch as the left tries to bring back the "fairness"
doctrine because they cannot seem to bring forth a successful liberal
talk show host.
I am sorry that I cannot speak with the same amount of
love as the one who calls me "the perpetually angry white wealthy
guy". I confess I am white and a guy and in this day of modern
liberalism I probably am suppose to apologize for that and if I were
wealthy I would most certainly be expected to apologize. This is really
going to piss them off, "I think there is equal amounts of scientific
evidence on both sides of man made global warming.
I will only say two more things.(sorry about the strike
through but I cant seem to get rid of it) I do not agree with many of
the things GW Bush has done but it has been 2665 days since we were
attacked and I think he has done very well in that regard. Even though
he might have violated the enemies privacy.
Finally, I have several liberal friends (ok 2) but my
understanding of your thinking is similar to looking at a person with
emphasema on oxygen while smoking a cigerrett
Proud to be conservative!!
dan farmer
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
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3D
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Fw: Happy New Year II |
Mr. Bob Steele,
My opinions are my own and not that of the company I work for. That's
important. They are good folks and we're actually quite conservative and
careful. (The area has its share of liberals, some more so than others.
These old mill and company towns really seemed to breed a working class
that thinks of companies as us and them.... Something of a union
mentality......Oops....Hehe.)
I am not nearly as liberal as you think. You wouldn't know a real one if
they bit you in the butt.
Most of the off topic political posts here are 'angry' and blame
everyone else for the country's ills. I've never seen one that says,
'boy was that dumb!'
I actually like Dan. Milt too. (Thought hopefully we won't have to fight
first, before I can give him a hug.)
Have a happy and good New Year.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Steele, Bob
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 10:38 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
Dan,
Obviously the ATP Lear Jet and the Col-East type folks were offended.
Apparently you should not have shared your "vast knowledge" and
revealed to all you are a wealthy white guy who is angry (perpetual at
that) and blaming everyone except for your fellow angry white guy
buddies. (The ability to discern someone's race, sustainability, sexual
orientation, net worth, and temperament from an e-mail posting is a gift
some liberals have. Contumely comes easy for some.)
Hopefully these two have helped you realize you should dumb it down a
little or at least wake up? It will help if you can adopt a new mantra,
"each according to his need". Just keep saying that over and over and
over again. Eventually you will feel better.
Hang in there - because those of us who know you - really like you!
And most of us agree with you!
Happy New Year!
Bob
AC-50, F1- Rocket, AX-8 Commercial Pilot
Past Golden Rudder Pedal Recipient
Currently searching for John Galt, $
Fellow proud conservative
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Farmer
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:35 PM
To: commander-list-digest@matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
It seems I might have offended a few individuals in my
Happy New Year posting. That was not my intention. In fact I was
surprised at some of the responses. So I reread my own posting and
realized that I might have overstated my thinking. I really should not
have implied that everyone who voted for the O is lazy, although I do
believe most do want some type of hand out or make the rich pay or tax
the corporations or feel this is just a mean and unfair country. Why
would I think that? Because that is what they are generally whaling
about. Or perhaps someone, even me, is just misguided.
I think that it might be possible that since I gave up
my airline job that I have too much time to think. Or possibly since my
Dad passed away and we are dealing with estate issues-like death taxes.
Or maybe it is that I have worked on this family farm with my dad,
mother, and two brothers most of my life. From the age of 5 I have had
responsibilities and expectations from my parents as to chores with
calves to feed, cows to milk, fields to be worked. Do not think I am
feeling sorry for myself as all the family worked hard and quite
honestly I would not trade with anyone. It is not that I mind liberals
throwing their money at ghost, feeling sorry for every person and
supporting every wacky cause that comes down the pike. Including most
of the latest bailouts. (Bush is no conservative) It is when they want
to take my property-at 55 percent and transfer it to someone who has not
earned it. I do not understand. It seems to me when you tax production
and subsidize contentment you get less production and more contentment.
I have tried not to assail any particular person but as
usual I am afraid the left does not like anyone to speak but them. They
are use to having the major net works and CNN and public radio and
public television in their court for most of our lives. They hate fox
news and shout down opposite views in many forums particularly in areas
of higher education. All the while railing about the lack of free
speech. Now watch as the left tries to bring back the "fairness"
doctrine because they cannot seem to bring forth a successful liberal
talk show host.
I am sorry that I cannot speak with the same amount of
love as the one who calls me "the perpetually angry white wealthy
guy". I confess I am white and a guy and in this day of modern
liberalism I probably am suppose to apologize for that and if I were
wealthy I would most certainly be expected to apologize. This is really
going to piss them off, "I think there is equal amounts of scientific
evidence on both sides of man made global warming.
I will only say two more things.(sorry about the strike
through but I cant seem to get rid of it) I do not agree with many of
the things GW Bush has done but it has been 2665 days since we were
attacked and I think he has done very well in that regard. Even though
he might have violated the enemies privacy.
Finally, I have several liberal friends (ok 2) but my
understanding of your thinking is similar to looking at a person with
emphasema on oxygen while smoking a cigerrett
Proud to be conservative!!
dan farmer
Message 3
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Subject: | lessons not learned |
Guess we'll never learn...
---
So what have we learned in 2 millennia?
"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt
should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and
controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest
Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on
public assistance."
- Cicero - 55 BC
Evidently nothing.
Everyone should own a twin commander so it is relevant.
Do not archive
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Fw: Happy New Year II |
Somebody finally got it right!!!!!? Finally!!? jb
'Barney Frank is responsible for our country's financial meltdown'
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve W <steve2@sover.net>
Sent: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 8:01 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
Aww beans.....
?
Dan I know enough farmers who were land poor to know what you're talking about.
When Kathie and I did our market gardening we used some land of a friend of mine
in New Hampshire who was a fifth generation dairy farmer. The town was going
to try to tax the manure composting pad as a patio.
?
Dan this is to you personally since now I've caused you offense. As a farmer?since
a kid, you've worked harder than I have. But nobody has ever handed me anything
either. I helped out in my Dad's small struggling company since 11 or so.
I've never stopped working. The house we built is on land I cleared. I was up
late last night to feed the wood-fired oven I built for my wife's little business
so she could go to bed early and wake up at 3:00am... I've just about finished
adapting an old plow to put on the newer truck because I can't afford a
new one......Etc.. I work my ass off. That's exactly how I took your posting......
I'm logging on to a Commander list and here's a post telling me how I want
a handout and how lazy I am. I'll likely never see retirement. The policies
that enrichened portfolios and made many people wealthy,?sold our manufacturing
and now our white-collar work overseas. The Republicans held the House and
Senate for how many years? And this is all the evil D
emocrats fault? Ridiculus.
?
Since I've said it I've got explain it. And I personally apologize to you. But
there's millions of our own people in trouble. Some of the poor work damned hard.
It just seems like some of the people who have it best, who have had every
advantage the country could offer are the angriest of people. Propaganda cuts
both ways. Michael Moore and Rush Limbaugh are both entertainers who manipulate?facts
and create caricatures of an opposite 'side' to stir passions and sell
air time. A steady diet of either has one coming to despise this 'other side'.
Both of them start with some grain of truth, but are often full of shit and
vastly over-simplistic if you actually look at the facts.?Everything can only
exist as polar opposites. 'Obama is an insane baby eating radical muslim terrorist'....
'Barney Frank is responsible for our country's financial meltdown'.
I've seen Fox news putting on the kookiest far lefties to knock down. The far
left press is just as goofy. 'Bush is evil'. Each si
de and each performer relies on demonizing others and relieving the listener of
responsibility. The extremes are?unable to ackowledge a rational center. The
far left might seek to silence the far right, but the far right has become more
politically correct than left.
?
It's not anyone's business, but I voted for Democrats, Republicans and Independents
in this last election because in each case I thought they were the best for
(at) the job. I would welcome genuine conservatism. How these last eight years
could be called conservative in almost any respect is way beyond me. People
mostly voted for Obama because he acquited himself well through the campain,
was intelligent, and appeared he might be able to govern competantly.
?
(P.S. I ain't Snow White. I watched my Father's business struggle while others
were eliglble for grants he couldn't get. I never finshed school as others were
given money and I was working full-time. The company I work for is still competing
unfairly against competant 'diasadvantaged' businesses. I think this stuff
has run it's course.)
?
(P.P.S. I still ain't Snow White. I'm no better than anyone else. I genuinely don't
understand how those that claim to be religious, square the tenants and teachings
with what they do and believe.)
?
You may not?want it from me, but I genuinely wish you sir a happy, healthy and
prosperous New Year.
?
Steven Welebny
?
(Opinions are mine, and not of the company I work for.)
?
?
?
?
?
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Farmer
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:35 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
It seems I might have offended a few individuals in my Happy New Year posting.?
That was not my intention.? In fact I was surprised at some of the responses.?
So I reread my own posting and realized that I might have overstated my thinking.?
I really should not have implied that everyone who voted for the O is lazy,
although I do believe most do want some type of hand out or make the rich
pay or tax the corporations or feel this is just a mean and unfair country.?
Why would I think that?? Because that is what they are generally whaling about.?
Or perhaps someone, even me, is just misguided.
I think that it might be possible that since I gave up my airline job that I have
too much time to think.? Or possibly since my Dad passed away and we are dealing
with estate issues-like death taxes.? Or maybe it is that I have worked
on this family farm with my dad, mother, and two brothers most of my life.? From
the age of 5 I have had responsibilities? and expectations from my parents
as to chores with calves to feed, cows to milk, fields to be worked.? Do not think
I am feeling sorry for myself as all the family worked hard and quite honestly
I would not trade with anyone.? It is not that I mind liberals throwing
their money at ghost, feeling sorry for every person and supporting every wacky
cause that comes down the pike.? Including most of the latest bailouts.? (Bush
is no conservative)? It is when they want to take my property-at 55 percent
and transfer it to someone who has not earned it.? I do not understand.? It seems
to me when you tax production and subsidize cont
entment you get less production and more contentment.
I have tried not to assail any particular person but as usual I am afraid the left
does not like anyone to speak but them. They are? use to having the major
net works and CNN and public radio and public television in their court for most
of our lives.? They hate fox news and shout down opposite views in many forums
particularly in areas of higher education.? All the while railing about the
lack of free speech.? Now watch as the left tries to bring back the "fairness"
doctrine because they cannot seem to bring forth a successful liberal talk
show host.?
I am sorry that I cannot speak with the same amount of love as the one? who calls
me "the perpetually? angry white wealthy guy". ? I confess I am white and a
guy and in this day of modern liberalism I probably am suppose to apologize for
that and if I were wealthy I would most certainly be expected to apologize.
This is really going to piss them off, "I think there is equal amounts of scientific
evidence on both sides of man made global warming.
I will only say two more things.(sorry about the strike through but I cant seem
to get rid of it)? I do not agree with many of the things GW Bush has done but
it has been 2665 days since we were attacked and I think he has done very well
in that regard.? Even though he might have violated the enemies privacy.
Finally, I have several liberal friends (ok 2) but my understanding of your thinking
is similar to looking at a person with emphasema? on oxygen while smoking
a cigerrett
Proud to be conservative!!
dan farmer
3D============================================= href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 3D============================================= href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'http://forums.matronics.com 3D============================================= href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'http://www.matronics.com/contribution 3D=============================================
Message 5
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Subject: | Fw: Happy New Year II |
Hi Steve,
It was quite a revelation for me to realize that you are a conservative at
heart. We need you in the conservative camp, then, man. You will notice I
didn't say Republican camp, which should address many of the things you
raised. Evil Democrats? That would be a grossly unfair statement. Evil
liberals? Yes, that would be more accurate and they are found in all of our
institutions. If you correct your perception in that respect you will see
the difference between Michael Moore and Rush Limbaugh. The latter is more
than 98% factually accurate in his utterances, independently verified. I
don't know anyone (who matters) who said, "Obama is an insane baby eating
radical muslim terrorist..." (a quotation of yours), so perhaps you are
lending your ears to hearsay. "Barney Frank is responsible for our country's
financial meltdown" is more accurate although he wasn't alone in it. Your
quotation lacks the names of Christopher Dodd, Nancy Pelosi, Franklin
Raines, and so on. If you can describe their forcing banks to provide loans
to people who cannot pay it back as anything other than socialism, I'd
certainly like to hear what it is.
Just now legislators are considering increasing gasoline taxes because the
lower consumption caused lower tax revenues. Now, answer me this: Did any of
the agitators of lower gasoline usage consider the impact of lower tax
revenues when they agitated that SUV's should be banned because they are
gas-guzzlers? Or when they imposed a gas-guzzler tax on larger automobiles?
Or when they introduced CAFE standards which imposed crippling costs on
manufacturers? If they didn't they ought to be tarred and feathered and run
out of town for shear stupidity or incompetence. But these folks have
degrees from top notch schools, so it cannot be stupidity. Realistic people
conclude that there must be another motive for their actions. If you can
name another than a planned, deliberate move to bankrupt the economy so that
it can be brought under government guardianship and eventually socialism, it
would be interesting to hear it. Perhaps Obama's comment that we should
"spread it [the wealth] around" should give one a clue. Perhaps Barbara
Boxer's comment to socialize the economy is a clue. Perhaps Lyndon Johnson's
"great society" which consumed trillions of dollars with more people in
poverty than before is a clue. Perhaps Barney Frank, Christopher Dodd, Nancy
Pelosi and other liberals defending Freddy Mac and Fanny May just before the
crash, full-well knowing they are sitting on trillions of dollars of toxic
assets, is a clue; utterances that caused many CEO's to go to jail for
misrepresenting their company's true state. One can go on and on about the
deception, and the bill for all of this has been paid with your hard work,
Steve; and you and I both probably will never have the luxury of retirement
to pay for the deceptions of the past, too. Go and look at the taxes you pay
and not only at the bottom figure that you net each month. See if $16,000
per child per year in education as opposed to less than $10,000 per year for
a private school, is a good bang for your buck. See if paying under $2 per
gallon for your gasoline is worse than $5, which is what we are being told
today. See if you believe it's correct that all the gasoline taxes are
funneled into the general fund and then you are asked to pay additional
taxes for the infrastructure. See if our automobile industry can compete if
they are saddled with a million retirees that earn full benefits adding
$1,500 per car to the bottom line (as opposed to Toyota's $120).
One shouldn't cry that one is a hard-working individual when one partakes
(actively or passively) in the destruction of the institutions that made
this country great - institutions that honor and reward hard work. One
cannot categorize the evils that befall us in Republican and Democratic
camps; they are liberal versus conservative - socialism versus capitalism -
pathogen versus host. You are a conservative; you need to see that
difference.
And that, my friend, is how I read Dan's ire.
Nico
PS. I am still envious that you get to fly Commanders for a living.
N
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
Aww beans.....
Dan I know enough farmers who were land poor to know what you're talking
about. When Kathie and I did our market gardening we used some land of a
friend of mine in New Hampshire who was a fifth generation dairy farmer. The
town was going to try to tax the manure composting pad as a patio.
Dan this is to you personally since now I've caused you offense. As a farmer
since a kid, you've worked harder than I have. But nobody has ever handed me
anything either. I helped out in my Dad's small struggling company since 11
or so. I've never stopped working. The house we built is on land I cleared.
I was up late last night to feed the wood-fired oven I built for my wife's
little business so she could go to bed early and wake up at 3:00am... I've
just about finished adapting an old plow to put on the newer truck because I
can't afford a new one......Etc.. I work my ass off. That's exactly how I
took your posting...... I'm logging on to a Commander list and here's a post
telling me how I want a handout and how lazy I am. I'll likely never see
retirement. The policies that enrichened portfolios and made many people
wealthy, sold our manufacturing and now our white-collar work overseas. The
Republicans held the House and Senate for how many years? And this is all
the evil Democrats fault? Ridiculus.
Since I've said it I've got explain it. And I personally apologize to you.
But there's millions of our own people in trouble. Some of the poor work
damned hard. It just seems like some of the people who have it best, who
have had every advantage the country could offer are the angriest of people.
Propaganda cuts both ways. Michael Moore and Rush Limbaugh are both
entertainers who manipulate facts and create caricatures of an opposite
'side' to stir passions and sell air time. A steady diet of either has one
coming to despise this 'other side'. Both of them start with some grain of
truth, but are often full of shit and vastly over-simplistic if you actually
look at the facts. Everything can only exist as polar opposites. 'Obama is
an insane baby eating radical muslim terrorist'.... 'Barney Frank is
responsible for our country's financial meltdown'. I've seen Fox news
putting on the kookiest far lefties to knock down. The far left press is
just as goofy. 'Bush is evil'. Each side and each performer relies on
demonizing others and relieving the listener of responsibility. The extremes
are unable to ackowledge a rational center. The far left might seek to
silence the far right, but the far right has become more politically correct
than left.
It's not anyone's business, but I voted for Democrats, Republicans and
Independents in this last election because in each case I thought they were
the best for (at) the job. I would welcome genuine conservatism. How these
last eight years could be called conservative in almost any respect is way
beyond me. People mostly voted for Obama because he acquited himself well
through the campain, was intelligent, and appeared he might be able to
govern competantly.
(P.S. I ain't Snow White. I watched my Father's business struggle while
others were eliglble for grants he couldn't get. I never finshed school as
others were given money and I was working full-time. The company I work for
is still competing unfairly against competant 'diasadvantaged' businesses. I
think this stuff has run it's course.)
(P.P.S. I still ain't Snow White. I'm no better than anyone else. I
genuinely don't understand how those that claim to be religious, square the
tenants and teachings with what they do and believe.)
You may not want it from me, but I genuinely wish you sir a happy, healthy
and prosperous New Year.
Steven Welebny
(Opinions are mine, and not of the company I work for.)
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan <mailto:daniellfarmer@yahoo.com> Farmer
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:35 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
It seems I might have offended a few individuals in my Happy New Year
posting. That was not my intention. In fact I was surprised at some of the
responses. So I reread my own posting and realized that I might have
overstated my thinking. I really should not have implied that everyone who
voted for the O is lazy, although I do believe most do want some type of
hand out or make the rich pay or tax the corporations or feel this is just a
mean and unfair country. Why would I think that? Because that is what they
are generally whaling about. Or perhaps someone, even me, is just
misguided.
I think that it might be possible that since I gave up my airline job that I
have too much time to think. Or possibly since my Dad passed away and we
are dealing with estate issues-like death taxes. Or maybe it is that I have
worked on this family farm with my dad, mother, and two brothers most of my
life. From the age of 5 I have had responsibilities and expectations from
my parents as to chores with calves to feed, cows to milk, fields to be
worked. Do not think I am feeling sorry for myself as all the family worked
hard and quite honestly I would not trade with anyone. It is not that I
mind liberals throwing their money at ghost, feeling sorry for every person
and supporting every wacky cause that comes down the pike. Including most
of the latest bailouts. (Bush is no conservative) It is when they want to
take my property-at 55 percent and transfer it to someone who has not earned
it. I do not understand. It seems to me when you tax production and
subsidize contentment you get less production and more contentment.
I have tried not to assail any particular person but as usual I am afraid
the left does not like anyone to speak but them. They are use to having the
major net works and CNN and public radio and public television in their
court for most of our lives. They hate fox news and shout down opposite
views in many forums particularly in areas of higher education. All the
while railing about the lack of free speech. Now watch as the left tries to
bring back the "fairness" doctrine because they cannot seem to bring forth a
successful liberal talk show host.
I am sorry that I cannot speak with the same amount of love as the one who
calls me "the perpetually angry white wealthy guy". I confess I am white
and a guy and in this day of modern liberalism I probably am suppose to
apologize for that and if I were wealthy I would most certainly be expected
to apologize. This is really going to piss them off, "I think there is equal
amounts of scientific evidence on both sides of man made global warming.
I will only say two more things.(sorry about the strike through but I cant
seem to get rid of it) I do not agree with many of the things GW Bush has
done but it has been 2665 days since we were attacked and I think he has
done very well in that regard. Even though he might have violated the
enemies privacy.
Finally, I have several liberal friends (ok 2) but my understanding of your
thinking is similar to looking at a person with emphasema on oxygen while
smoking a cigerrett
Proud to be conservative!!
dan farmer
3D=========================3
D===================
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List"'>http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
3D=========================3
D===================
href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
3D=========================3
D===================
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
3D=========================3
D===================
Message 6
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Subject: | Fw: Happy New Year II |
If that is true, you wouldn't have gone off Dan like you did.
We are all about to get bit in the butt, get ready.
________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
Mr. Bob Steele,
My opinions are my own and not that of the company I work for. That's
important. They are good folks and we're actually quite conservative and
careful. (The area has its share of liberals, some more so than others.
These old mill and company towns really seemed to breed a working class
that thinks of companies as us and them.... Something of a union
mentality......Oops....Hehe.)
I am not nearly as liberal as you think. You wouldn't know a real one if
they bit you in the butt.
Most of the off topic political posts here are 'angry' and blame
everyone else for the country's ills. I've never seen one that says,
'boy was that dumb!'
I actually like Dan. Milt too. (Thought hopefully we won't have to fight
first, before I can give him a hug.)
Have a happy and good New Year.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Steele, Bob <mailto:Bob.Steele@kzf.com>
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 10:38 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
Dan,
Obviously the ATP Lear Jet and the Col-East type folks were
offended.
Apparently you should not have shared your "vast knowledge" and
revealed to all you are a wealthy white guy who is angry (perpetual at
that) and blaming everyone except for your fellow angry white guy
buddies. (The ability to discern someone's race, sustainability, sexual
orientation, net worth, and temperament from an e-mail posting is a gift
some liberals have. Contumely comes easy for some.)
Hopefully these two have helped you realize you should dumb it
down a little or at least wake up? It will help if you can adopt a new
mantra, "each according to his need". Just keep saying that over and
over and over again. Eventually you will feel better.
Hang in there - because those of us who know you - really like
you! And most of us agree with you!
Happy New Year!
Bob
AC-50, F1- Rocket, AX-8 Commercial Pilot
Past Golden Rudder Pedal Recipient
Currently searching for John Galt, $
Fellow proud conservative
________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Farmer
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:35 PM
To: commander-list-digest@matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
It seems I might have offended a few individuals in my Happy New Year
posting. That was not my intention. In fact I was surprised at some of
the responses. So I reread my own posting and realized that I might
have overstated my thinking. I really should not have implied that
everyone who voted for the O is lazy, although I do believe most do want
some type of hand out or make the rich pay or tax the corporations or
feel this is just a mean and unfair country. Why would I think that?
Because that is what they are generally whaling about. Or perhaps
someone, even me, is just misguided.
I think that it might be possible that since I gave up my airline job
that I have too much time to think. Or possibly since my Dad passed
away and we are dealing with estate issues-like death taxes. Or maybe
it is that I have worked on this family farm with my dad, mother, and
two brothers most of my life. From the age of 5 I have had
responsibilities and expectations from my parents as to chores with
calves to feed, cows to milk, fields to be worked. Do not think I am
feeling sorry for myself as all the family worked hard and quite
honestly I would not trade with anyone. It is not that I mind liberals
throwing their money at ghost, feeling sorry for every person and
supporting every wacky cause that comes down the pike. Including most
of the latest bailouts. (Bush is no conservative) It is when they want
to take my property-at 55 percent and transfer it to someone who has not
earned it. I do not understand. It seems to me when you tax production
and subsidize contentment you get less production and more contentment.
I have tried not to assail any particular person but as usual I am
afraid the left does not like anyone to speak but them. They are use to
having the major net works and CNN and public radio and public
television in their court for most of our lives. They hate fox news and
shout down opposite views in many forums particularly in areas of higher
education. All the while railing about the lack of free speech. Now
watch as the left tries to bring back the "fairness" doctrine because
they cannot seem to bring forth a successful liberal talk show host.
I am sorry that I cannot speak with the same amount of love as the one
who calls me "the perpetually angry white wealthy guy". I confess I
am white and a guy and in this day of modern liberalism I probably am
suppose to apologize for that and if I were wealthy I would most
certainly be expected to apologize. This is really going to piss them
off, "I think there is equal amounts of scientific evidence on both
sides of man made global warming.
I will only say two more things.(sorry about the strike through but I
cant seem to get rid of it) I do not agree with many of the things GW
Bush has done but it has been 2665 days since we were attacked and I
think he has done very well in that regard. Even though he might have
violated the enemies privacy.
Finally, I have several liberal friends (ok 2) but my understanding of
your thinking is similar to looking at a person with emphasema on
oxygen while smoking a cigerrett
Proud to be conservative!!
dan farmer
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
r
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 7
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Subject: | Fw: Happy New Year II |
To all my mates, hope you have a great new year.
Now to wade into this discussion.
We are now a year and a bit into our own change. Our illustrious leader
Kevin Rudd a.k.a KRUDD, Kevin747 , Dudd , Kevin07-mistake08 and disaster09.
The way he won power is scarily similar to Obamas rise. Making promises to
the great unwashed, offering something for nothing, going to change the
world for the better etc.
Well it seems as we all know that it is a lot easier to sit in the peanut
gallery shouting about how things should be done than actually doing it
yourself. One suddenly gets to realize that thing don't really change.
Policies that work in fashion carry on working, slowly those that don't
change into something that does. We now have a government that is living off
the policies of the previous government. Rehashed and proudly touted as
their own, but still the policies of old. Everthing he said he was going to
change is still the same if not worse. I can not name one person I know who
will admit to voting for this dope, even though in the media he is the
GREATEST. The Unions financed his rise and were about to get back a lot of
their power. Now it seems that they might have been wrong as well.
We swapped a Statesman for a public servant.
OH BOY ARE WE GOING TO PAY.
Regards
Richard
Owner of a quick rebuild (8 years later)
Owner of numerous Piper products
Previous recipient of the Golden Pedal Award (now in the hands of Moe)
P.S. Dan my boy Forget the politics it will only Pee you off and concentrate
on your true calling. Giving retired people a bad name . That story about
the dog food was a classic. Up there with the plastic Poo and forgetting to
release the brakes at OKC.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steele, Bob
Sent: Saturday, 3 January 2009 5:38 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
If that is true, you wouldn't have gone off Dan like you did.
We are all about to get bit in the butt, get ready.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
Mr. Bob Steele,
My opinions are my own and not that of the company I work for. That's
important. They are good folks and we're actually quite conservative and
careful. (The area has its share of liberals, some more so than others.
These old mill and company towns really seemed to breed a working class that
thinks of companies as us and them.... Something of a union
mentality......Oops....Hehe.)
I am not nearly as liberal as you think. You wouldn't know a real one if
they bit you in the butt.
Most of the off topic political posts here are 'angry' and blame everyone
else for the country's ills. I've never seen one that says, 'boy was that
dumb!'
I actually like Dan. Milt too. (Thought hopefully we won't have to fight
first, before I can give him a hug.)
Have a happy and good New Year.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Steele, Bob <mailto:Bob.Steele@kzf.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 10:38 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
Dan,
Obviously the ATP Lear Jet and the Col-East type folks were offended.
Apparently you should not have shared your "vast knowledge" and revealed to
all you are a wealthy white guy who is angry (perpetual at that) and blaming
everyone except for your fellow angry white guy buddies. (The ability to
discern someone's race, sustainability, sexual orientation, net worth, and
temperament from an e-mail posting is a gift some liberals have. Contumely
comes easy for some.)
Hopefully these two have helped you realize you should dumb it down a little
or at least wake up? It will help if you can adopt a new mantra, "each
according to his need". Just keep saying that over and over and over again.
Eventually you will feel better.
Hang in there - because those of us who know you - really like you! And
most of us agree with you!
Happy New Year!
Bob
AC-50, F1- Rocket, AX-8 Commercial Pilot
Past Golden Rudder Pedal Recipient
Currently searching for John Galt, $
Fellow proud conservative
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Farmer
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:35 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
It seems I might have offended a few individuals in my Happy New Year
posting. That was not my intention. In fact I was surprised at some of the
responses. So I reread my own posting and realized that I might have
overstated my thinking. I really should not have implied that everyone who
voted for the O is lazy, although I do believe most do want some type of
hand out or make the rich pay or tax the corporations or feel this is just a
mean and unfair country. Why would I think that? Because that is what they
are generally whaling about. Or perhaps someone, even me, is just
misguided.
I think that it might be possible that since I gave up my airline job that I
have too much time to think. Or possibly since my Dad passed away and we
are dealing with estate issues-like death taxes. Or maybe it is that I have
worked on this family farm with my dad, mother, and two brothers most of my
life. From the age of 5 I have had responsibilities and expectations from
my parents as to chores with calves to feed, cows to milk, fields to be
worked. Do not think I am feeling sorry for myself as all the family worked
hard and quite honestly I would not trade with anyone. It is not that I
mind liberals throwing their money at ghost, feeling sorry for every person
and supporting every wacky cause that comes down the pike. Including most
of the latest bailouts. (Bush is no conservative) It is when they want to
take my property-at 55 percent and transfer it to someone who has not earned
it. I do not understand. It seems to me when you tax production and
subsidize contentment you get less production and more contentment.
I have tried not to assail any particular person but as usual I am afraid
the left does not like anyone to speak but them. They are use to having the
major net works and CNN and public radio and public television in their
court for most of our lives. They hate fox news and shout down opposite
views in many forums particularly in areas of higher education. All the
while railing about the lack of free speech. Now watch as the left tries to
bring back the "fairness" doctrine because they cannot seem to bring forth a
successful liberal talk show host.
I am sorry that I cannot speak with the same amount of love as the one who
calls me "the perpetually angry white wealthy guy". I confess I am white
and a guy and in this day of modern liberalism I probably am suppose to
apologize for that and if I were wealthy I would most certainly be expected
to apologize. This is really going to piss them off, "I think there is equal
amounts of scientific evidence on both sides of man made global warming.
I will only say two more things.(sorry about the strike through but I cant
seem to get rid of it) I do not agree with many of the things GW Bush has
done but it has been 2665 days since we were attacked and I think he has
done very well in that regard. Even though he might have violated the
enemies privacy.
Finally, I have several liberal friends (ok 2) but my understanding of your
thinking is similar to looking at a person with emphasema on oxygen while
smoking a cigerrett
Proud to be conservative!!
dan farmer
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matron
ic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 8
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|
Subject: | Group Hug? Too soon? |
Nico,
I appreciate your taking the time to write, and I read carefully. I'll
have some comments and questions to you I'll take off list in the next
day or so.
It seems silly to blame the world's financial collapse on the 'gay' guy.
It was a team effort. But I'll listen to what you have to say.
I'm extremely lucky to drive a Commander some for work. But if the
mapping doesn't stop all going to India, I won't have a job or house let
alone be flying anymore.
You can ride with me anytime.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 12:51 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
Hi Steve,
It was quite a revelation for me to realize that you are a
conservative at heart. We need you in the conservative camp, then, man.
You will notice I didn't say Republican camp, which should address many
of the things you raised. Evil Democrats? That would be a grossly unfair
statement. Evil liberals? Yes, that would be more accurate and they are
found in all of our institutions. If you correct your perception in that
respect you will see the difference between Michael Moore and Rush
Limbaugh. The latter is more than 98% factually accurate in his
utterances, independently verified. I don't know anyone (who matters)
who said, "Obama is an insane baby eating radical muslim terrorist..."
(a quotation of yours), so perhaps you are lending your ears to hearsay.
"Barney Frank is responsible for our country's financial meltdown" is
more accurate although he wasn't alone in it. Your quotation lacks the
names of Christopher Dodd, Nancy Pelosi, Franklin Raines, and so on. If
you can describe their forcing banks to provide loans to people who
cannot pay it back as anything other than socialism, I'd certainly like
to hear what it is.
Just now legislators are considering increasing gasoline taxes because
the lower consumption caused lower tax revenues. Now, answer me this:
Did any of the agitators of lower gasoline usage consider the impact of
lower tax revenues when they agitated that SUV's should be banned
because they are gas-guzzlers? Or when they imposed a gas-guzzler tax on
larger automobiles? Or when they introduced CAFE standards which imposed
crippling costs on manufacturers? If they didn't they ought to be tarred
and feathered and run out of town for shear stupidity or incompetence.
But these folks have degrees from top notch schools, so it cannot be
stupidity. Realistic people conclude that there must be another motive
for their actions. If you can name another than a planned, deliberate
move to bankrupt the economy so that it can be brought under government
guardianship and eventually socialism, it would be interesting to hear
it. Perhaps Obama's comment that we should "spread it [the wealth]
around" should give one a clue. Perhaps Barbara Boxer's comment to
socialize the economy is a clue. Perhaps Lyndon Johnson's "great
society" which consumed trillions of dollars with more people in poverty
than before is a clue. Perhaps Barney Frank, Christopher Dodd, Nancy
Pelosi and other liberals defending Freddy Mac and Fanny May just before
the crash, full-well knowing they are sitting on trillions of dollars of
toxic assets, is a clue; utterances that caused many CEO's to go to jail
for misrepresenting their company's true state. One can go on and on
about the deception, and the bill for all of this has been paid with
your hard work, Steve; and you and I both probably will never have the
luxury of retirement to pay for the deceptions of the past, too. Go and
look at the taxes you pay and not only at the bottom figure that you net
each month. See if $16,000 per child per year in education as opposed to
less than $10,000 per year for a private school, is a good bang for your
buck. See if paying under $2 per gallon for your gasoline is worse than
$5, which is what we are being told today. See if you believe it's
correct that all the gasoline taxes are funneled into the general fund
and then you are asked to pay additional taxes for the infrastructure.
See if our automobile industry can compete if they are saddled with a
million retirees that earn full benefits adding $1,500 per car to the
bottom line (as opposed to Toyota's $120).
One shouldn't cry that one is a hard-working individual when one
partakes (actively or passively) in the destruction of the institutions
that made this country great - institutions that honor and reward hard
work. One cannot categorize the evils that befall us in Republican and
Democratic camps; they are liberal versus conservative - socialism
versus capitalism - pathogen versus host. You are a conservative; you
need to see that difference.
And that, my friend, is how I read Dan's ire.
Nico
PS. I am still envious that you get to fly Commanders for a living.
N
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 8:01 AM
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
Aww beans.....
Dan I know enough farmers who were land poor to know what you're
talking about. When Kathie and I did our market gardening we used some
land of a friend of mine in New Hampshire who was a fifth generation
dairy farmer. The town was going to try to tax the manure composting pad
as a patio.
Dan this is to you personally since now I've caused you offense. As a
farmer since a kid, you've worked harder than I have. But nobody has
ever handed me anything either. I helped out in my Dad's small
struggling company since 11 or so. I've never stopped working. The house
we built is on land I cleared. I was up late last night to feed the
wood-fired oven I built for my wife's little business so she could go to
bed early and wake up at 3:00am... I've just about finished adapting an
old plow to put on the newer truck because I can't afford a new
one......Etc.. I work my ass off. That's exactly how I took your
posting...... I'm logging on to a Commander list and here's a post
telling me how I want a handout and how lazy I am. I'll likely never see
retirement. The policies that enrichened portfolios and made many people
wealthy, sold our manufacturing and now our white-collar work overseas.
The Republicans held the House and Senate for how many years? And this
is all the evil Democrats fault? Ridiculus.
Since I've said it I've got explain it. And I personally apologize to
you. But there's millions of our own people in trouble. Some of the poor
work damned hard. It just seems like some of the people who have it
best, who have had every advantage the country could offer are the
angriest of people. Propaganda cuts both ways. Michael Moore and Rush
Limbaugh are both entertainers who manipulate facts and create
caricatures of an opposite 'side' to stir passions and sell air time. A
steady diet of either has one coming to despise this 'other side'. Both
of them start with some grain of truth, but are often full of shit and
vastly over-simplistic if you actually look at the facts. Everything can
only exist as polar opposites. 'Obama is an insane baby eating radical
muslim terrorist'.... 'Barney Frank is responsible for our country's
financial meltdown'. I've seen Fox news putting on the kookiest far
lefties to knock down. The far left press is just as goofy. 'Bush is
evil'. Each side and each performer relies on demonizing others and
relieving the listener of responsibility. The extremes are unable to
ackowledge a rational center. The far left might seek to silence the far
right, but the far right has become more politically correct than left.
It's not anyone's business, but I voted for Democrats, Republicans and
Independents in this last election because in each case I thought they
were the best for (at) the job. I would welcome genuine conservatism.
How these last eight years could be called conservative in almost any
respect is way beyond me. People mostly voted for Obama because he
acquited himself well through the campain, was intelligent, and appeared
he might be able to govern competantly.
(P.S. I ain't Snow White. I watched my Father's business struggle
while others were eliglble for grants he couldn't get. I never finshed
school as others were given money and I was working full-time. The
company I work for is still competing unfairly against competant
'diasadvantaged' businesses. I think this stuff has run it's course.)
(P.P.S. I still ain't Snow White. I'm no better than anyone else. I
genuinely don't understand how those that claim to be religious, square
the tenants and teachings with what they do and believe.)
You may not want it from me, but I genuinely wish you sir a happy,
healthy and prosperous New Year.
Steven Welebny
(Opinions are mine, and not of the company I work for.)
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Farmer
To: commander-list-digest@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:35 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
It seems I might have offended a few individuals in my
Happy New Year posting. That was not my intention. In fact I was
surprised at some of the responses. So I reread my own posting and
realized that I might have overstated my thinking. I really should not
have implied that everyone who voted for the O is lazy, although I do
believe most do want some type of hand out or make the rich pay or tax
the corporations or feel this is just a mean and unfair country. Why
would I think that? Because that is what they are generally whaling
about. Or perhaps someone, even me, is just misguided.
I think that it might be possible that since I gave up
my airline job that I have too much time to think. Or possibly since my
Dad passed away and we are dealing with estate issues-like death taxes.
Or maybe it is that I have worked on this family farm with my dad,
mother, and two brothers most of my life. From the age of 5 I have had
responsibilities and expectations from my parents as to chores with
calves to feed, cows to milk, fields to be worked. Do not think I am
feeling sorry for myself as all the family worked hard and quite
honestly I would not trade with anyone. It is not that I mind liberals
throwing their money at ghost, feeling sorry for every person and
supporting every wacky cause that comes down the pike. Including most
of the latest bailouts. (Bush is no conservative) It is when they want
to take my property-at 55 percent and transfer it to someone who has not
earned it. I do not understand. It seems to me when you tax production
and subsidize contentment you get less production and more contentment.
I have tried not to assail any particular person but
as usual I am afraid the left does not like anyone to speak but them.
They are use to having the major net works and CNN and public radio and
public television in their court for most of our lives. They hate fox
news and shout down opposite views in many forums particularly in areas
of higher education. All the while railing about the lack of free
speech. Now watch as the left tries to bring back the "fairness"
doctrine because they cannot seem to bring forth a successful liberal
talk show host.
I am sorry that I cannot speak with the same amount of
love as the one who calls me "the perpetually angry white wealthy
guy". I confess I am white and a guy and in this day of modern
liberalism I probably am suppose to apologize for that and if I were
wealthy I would most certainly be expected to apologize. This is really
going to piss them off, "I think there is equal amounts of scientific
evidence on both sides of man made global warming.
I will only say two more things.(sorry about the
strike through but I cant seem to get rid of it) I do not agree with
many of the things GW Bush has done but it has been 2665 days since we
were attacked and I think he has done very well in that regard. Even
though he might have violated the enemies privacy.
Finally, I have several liberal friends (ok 2) but my
understanding of your thinking is similar to looking at a person with
emphasema on oxygen while smoking a cigerrett
Proud to be conservative!!
dan farmer
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Subject: | Group Hug? Too soon? |
Thanks, Steve. I am looking forward to our off-list discussion.
'Gay guy?' Who brought that up?
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 4:45 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Group Hug? Too soon?
Nico,
I appreciate your taking the time to write, and I read carefully. I'll have
some comments and questions to you I'll take off list in the next day or so.
It seems silly to blame the world's financial collapse on the 'gay' guy. It
was a team effort. But I'll listen to what you have to say.
I'm extremely lucky to drive a Commander some for work. But if the mapping
doesn't stop all going to India, I won't have a job or house let alone be
flying anymore.
You can ride with me anytime.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico <mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com> css
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 12:51 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
Hi Steve,
It was quite a revelation for me to realize that you are a conservative at
heart. We need you in the conservative camp, then, man. You will notice I
didn't say Republican camp, which should address many of the things you
raised. Evil Democrats? That would be a grossly unfair statement. Evil
liberals? Yes, that would be more accurate and they are found in all of our
institutions. If you correct your perception in that respect you will see
the difference between Michael Moore and Rush Limbaugh. The latter is more
than 98% factually accurate in his utterances, independently verified. I
don't know anyone (who matters) who said, "Obama is an insane baby eating
radical muslim terrorist..." (a quotation of yours), so perhaps you are
lending your ears to hearsay. "Barney Frank is responsible for our country's
financial meltdown" is more accurate although he wasn't alone in it. Your
quotation lacks the names of Christopher Dodd, Nancy Pelosi, Franklin
Raines, and so on. If you can describe their forcing banks to provide loans
to people who cannot pay it back as anything other than socialism, I'd
certainly like to hear what it is.
Just now legislators are considering increasing gasoline taxes because the
lower consumption caused lower tax revenues. Now, answer me this: Did any of
the agitators of lower gasoline usage consider the impact of lower tax
revenues when they agitated that SUV's should be banned because they are
gas-guzzlers? Or when they imposed a gas-guzzler tax on larger automobiles?
Or when they introduced CAFE standards which imposed crippling costs on
manufacturers? If they didn't they ought to be tarred and feathered and run
out of town for shear stupidity or incompetence. But these folks have
degrees from top notch schools, so it cannot be stupidity. Realistic people
conclude that there must be another motive for their actions. If you can
name another than a planned, deliberate move to bankrupt the economy so that
it can be brought under government guardianship and eventually socialism, it
would be interesting to hear it. Perhaps Obama's comment that we should
"spread it [the wealth] around" should give one a clue. Perhaps Barbara
Boxer's comment to socialize the economy is a clue. Perhaps Lyndon Johnson's
"great society" which consumed trillions of dollars with more people in
poverty than before is a clue. Perhaps Barney Frank, Christopher Dodd, Nancy
Pelosi and other liberals defending Freddy Mac and Fanny May just before the
crash, full-well knowing they are sitting on trillions of dollars of toxic
assets, is a clue; utterances that caused many CEO's to go to jail for
misrepresenting their company's true state. One can go on and on about the
deception, and the bill for all of this has been paid with your hard work,
Steve; and you and I both probably will never have the luxury of retirement
to pay for the deceptions of the past, too. Go and look at the taxes you pay
and not only at the bottom figure that you net each month. See if $16,000
per child per year in education as opposed to less than $10,000 per year for
a private school, is a good bang for your buck. See if paying under $2 per
gallon for your gasoline is worse than $5, which is what we are being told
today. See if you believe it's correct that all the gasoline taxes are
funneled into the general fund and then you are asked to pay additional
taxes for the infrastructure. See if our automobile industry can compete if
they are saddled with a million retirees that earn full benefits adding
$1,500 per car to the bottom line (as opposed to Toyota's $120).
One shouldn't cry that one is a hard-working individual when one partakes
(actively or passively) in the destruction of the institutions that made
this country great - institutions that honor and reward hard work. One
cannot categorize the evils that befall us in Republican and Democratic
camps; they are liberal versus conservative - socialism versus capitalism -
pathogen versus host. You are a conservative; you need to see that
difference.
And that, my friend, is how I read Dan's ire.
Nico
PS. I am still envious that you get to fly Commanders for a living.
N
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
Aww beans.....
Dan I know enough farmers who were land poor to know what you're talking
about. When Kathie and I did our market gardening we used some land of a
friend of mine in New Hampshire who was a fifth generation dairy farmer. The
town was going to try to tax the manure composting pad as a patio.
Dan this is to you personally since now I've caused you offense. As a farmer
since a kid, you've worked harder than I have. But nobody has ever handed me
anything either. I helped out in my Dad's small struggling company since 11
or so. I've never stopped working. The house we built is on land I cleared.
I was up late last night to feed the wood-fired oven I built for my wife's
little business so she could go to bed early and wake up at 3:00am... I've
just about finished adapting an old plow to put on the newer truck because I
can't afford a new one......Etc.. I work my ass off. That's exactly how I
took your posting...... I'm logging on to a Commander list and here's a post
telling me how I want a handout and how lazy I am. I'll likely never see
retirement. The policies that enrichened portfolios and made many people
wealthy, sold our manufacturing and now our white-collar work overseas. The
Republicans held the House and Senate for how many years? And this is all
the evil Democrats fault? Ridiculus.
Since I've said it I've got explain it. And I personally apologize to you.
But there's millions of our own people in trouble. Some of the poor work
damned hard. It just seems like some of the people who have it best, who
have had every advantage the country could offer are the angriest of people.
Propaganda cuts both ways. Michael Moore and Rush Limbaugh are both
entertainers who manipulate facts and create caricatures of an opposite
'side' to stir passions and sell air time. A steady diet of either has one
coming to despise this 'other side'. Both of them start with some grain of
truth, but are often full of shit and vastly over-simplistic if you actually
look at the facts. Everything can only exist as polar opposites. 'Obama is
an insane baby eating radical muslim terrorist'.... 'Barney Frank is
responsible for our country's financial meltdown'. I've seen Fox news
putting on the kookiest far lefties to knock down. The far left press is
just as goofy. 'Bush is evil'. Each side and each performer relies on
demonizing others and relieving the listener of responsibility. The extremes
are unable to ackowledge a rational center. The far left might seek to
silence the far right, but the far right has become more politically correct
than left.
It's not anyone's business, but I voted for Democrats, Republicans and
Independents in this last election because in each case I thought they were
the best for (at) the job. I would welcome genuine conservatism. How these
last eight years could be called conservative in almost any respect is way
beyond me. People mostly voted for Obama because he acquited himself well
through the campain, was intelligent, and appeared he might be able to
govern competantly.
(P.S. I ain't Snow White. I watched my Father's business struggle while
others were eliglble for grants he couldn't get. I never finshed school as
others were given money and I was working full-time. The company I work for
is still competing unfairly against competant 'diasadvantaged' businesses. I
think this stuff has run it's course.)
(P.P.S. I still ain't Snow White. I'm no better than anyone else. I
genuinely don't understand how those that claim to be religious, square the
tenants and teachings with what they do and believe.)
You may not want it from me, but I genuinely wish you sir a happy, healthy
and prosperous New Year.
Steven Welebny
(Opinions are mine, and not of the company I work for.)
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan <mailto:daniellfarmer@yahoo.com> Farmer
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:35 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Happy New Year II
It seems I might have offended a few individuals in my Happy New Year
posting. That was not my intention. In fact I was surprised at some of the
responses. So I reread my own posting and realized that I might have
overstated my thinking. I really should not have implied that everyone who
voted for the O is lazy, although I do believe most do want some type of
hand out or make the rich pay or tax the corporations or feel this is just a
mean and unfair country. Why would I think that? Because that is what they
are generally whaling about. Or perhaps someone, even me, is just
misguided.
I think that it might be possible that since I gave up my airline job that I
have too much time to think. Or possibly since my Dad passed away and we
are dealing with estate issues-like death taxes. Or maybe it is that I have
worked on this family farm with my dad, mother, and two brothers most of my
life. From the age of 5 I have had responsibilities and expectations from
my parents as to chores with calves to feed, cows to milk, fields to be
worked. Do not think I am feeling sorry for myself as all the family worked
hard and quite honestly I would not trade with anyone. It is not that I
mind liberals throwing their money at ghost, feeling sorry for every person
and supporting every wacky cause that comes down the pike. Including most
of the latest bailouts. (Bush is no conservative) It is when they want to
take my property-at 55 percent and transfer it to someone who has not earned
it. I do not understand. It seems to me when you tax production and
subsidize contentment you get less production and more contentment.
I have tried not to assail any particular person but as usual I am afraid
the left does not like anyone to speak but them. They are use to having the
major net works and CNN and public radio and public television in their
court for most of our lives. They hate fox news and shout down opposite
views in many forums particularly in areas of higher education. All the
while railing about the lack of free speech. Now watch as the left tries to
bring back the "fairness" doctrine because they cannot seem to bring forth a
successful liberal talk show host.
I am sorry that I cannot speak with the same amount of love as the one who
calls me "the perpetually angry white wealthy guy". I confess I am white
and a guy and in this day of modern liberalism I probably am suppose to
apologize for that and if I were wealthy I would most certainly be expected
to apologize. This is really going to piss them off, "I think there is equal
amounts of scientific evidence on both sides of man made global warming.
I will only say two more things.(sorry about the strike through but I cant
seem to get rid of it) I do not agree with many of the things GW Bush has
done but it has been 2665 days since we were attacked and I think he has
done very well in that regard. Even though he might have violated the
enemies privacy.
Finally, I have several liberal friends (ok 2) but my understanding of your
thinking is similar to looking at a person with emphasema on oxygen while
smoking a cigerrett
Proud to be conservative!!
dan farmer
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Subject: | ATM fraud - watch out! |
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