Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:03 PM - opinions (Dan Farmer)
2. 01:34 PM - Re: opinions (nico css)
3. 03:02 PM - Re: opinions (Dan Brady)
4. 04:54 PM - Re: Fw: Happy New Year II (Chris)
5. 05:50 PM - Passion politics & Commander (Gary Moshluk)
6. 06:06 PM - Re: Passion politics & Commander (nico css)
7. 06:12 PM - Commander Pics (David Fitzgerald)
8. 08:20 PM - Fw: opinions (Dan Brady)
Message 1
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Well folks hopefully I can bring this to an end.- I will try never to pos
t a political thought on this web page.- I am not angry with any one and
have sort of enjoy the roust but that is not what this site is about.- So
I would like apologize to anyone I have offended and hope no one ever leav
es this site over a difference of opinion.- Most have heard about opinion
s--that they are like A wholes- everyone has one and the other guys usually
stinks:-))- I guess Jack Benny was right when he said "it is to bad that
the people who really know how to run the country are too busy shining sho
es and driving cabs".- Now if we can get back to Commanders and I am not
talking Studebaker's.
Sincerely,
dan f
=0A=0A=0A
Message 2
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Wow. You remember the Studebakers, Larks, and others. Hudson also had a
Commander, no?
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Farmer
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:03 PM
Subject: Commander-List: opinions
Well folks hopefully I can bring this to an end. I will try never to post a
political thought on this web page. I am not angry with any one and have
sort of enjoy the roust but that is not what this site is about. So I would
like apologize to anyone I have offended and hope no one ever leaves this
site over a difference of opinion. Most have heard about opinions--that
they are like A wholes- everyone has one and the other guys usually
stinks:-)) I guess Jack Benny was right when he said "it is to bad that the
people who really know how to run the country are too busy shining shoes and
driving cabs". Now if we can get back to Commanders and I am not talking
Studebaker's.
Sincerely,
dan f
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Message 3
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Oh no you're not getting of the hook that easy....what have you got
against Studebakers?.....Seriously, getting back to flying machines,
some aircraft wrongly earn a reputation of being unsafe because they
show up in more accident/incident reports than others that are lumped
into the same category. In the late '50s through the '60s twin
Beeches,Azteks & Aerocommanders led the hit list at least in the midwest
flatlands & great lakes area where I was doing most of my flying at that
time. What wasn't considered by the hanger talk gurus was the fact that
these were the 24/7 allweather work horses of the time hauling mail,
checks, cargo & on demand charters yet their stats were lumped in with
everything under 10,500#...including thousands of
J3s,C140s,Luscombes,etc. Now we all know that a student pilot's main
mission in life is to destroy the aircraft & kill the instructor,but in
spite of that the incidents per flight hour stats were pretty good
compared to the work horses that spent a lot of their time picking their
way around tstms,landing in the middle of the night at an unattended
airstrip infested with patchy ground fog or landing an ice encrusted
airframe on a runway that could double as an olympic ice rink. During
this period an uneven number of Commanders were involved in landing
mishaps in icing conditions mostly loss of control during base to final
or unintentional off runway excursions after ugly touch downs. It seems
that compared to the majority of twinBs & Azteks most of the Commanders
had no windscreen deicing. An approved system for the A/Cs was very
costly so most went without depending instead on the high setting of the
heater's defog sometimes disasterally suplimented with cups of hot
coffee perched on the glare shield. A few of us went to the auto parts
store & hooked up a squeezebulb alcohol dispenser. Yes it worked & no it
was rarely spoken of & never in evidence during inspections.......Dan
the desert duck 77B
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Farmer
To: commander-list-digest@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:02 PM
Subject: Commander-List: opinions
Well folks hopefully I can bring this to an end. I will try
never to post a political thought on this web page. I am not angry with
any one and have sort of enjoy the roust but that is not what this site
is about. So I would like apologize to anyone I have offended and hope
no one ever leaves this site over a difference of opinion. Most have
heard about opinions--that they are like A wholes- everyone has one and
the other guys usually stinks:-)) I guess Jack Benny was right when he
said "it is to bad that the people who really know how to run the
country are too busy shining shoes and driving cabs". Now if we can get
back to Commanders and I am not talking Studebaker's.
Sincerely,
dan f
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Happy New Year II |
Richard & Jacqui Thompson wrote:
>
> We are now a year and a bit into our own change.
>
Happy new year to you and Jacqui also! Hope things are well on the
other side of the planet.
Interesting information about your political situation. Thanks for
sharing. Much like reading the NTSB reports and trying to learn from
other people mistakes, I find it highly informative to study the
political situation around the world to find out what social experiments
have been tried and what the results have been. Based upon my studies,
I fear that we as a country have probably not done our due diligence in
learning from other countries mistakes. I hope I'm proven wrong, but I
guess time will tell.
cheers,
chris
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Passion politics & Commander |
I bought my 1954 Aero Commander 560 in 1988 for just less than
$10,000.00. No props*, the logs showed 300 smoh on the left and 700
smoh on the right - the interior had been gutted; pink fiberglass
insulation was falling off the ceiling and sidewalls - absolutely
nothing for radios. The mechanic I befriended years earlier that let
me rebuild my first airplane in his hangar a 150 I bought from him
originally had plans to buy it but unfortunately after an accident while
testing a Cassutt Racer for one of his customers ended up a paraplegic.
Prior to the Commander purchase, I had since traded the 150 for a Cessna
Cardinal out of Wisconsin; flew it for a few years and sold the Cardinal
to purchase the Commander. *The Commander props ended up on one of the
defunct partners Widgeon - after too many beers, he tried to taxi his
Widgeon into the hangar...arrg!
My Commander was located in Tecumseh, Michigan which was two plus
hours from my home in Holland, Michigan. I used to spend weekends
camping out in the fuselage in order to have the bulk of the weekend to
work on it. I had a small kerosene heater for the Michigan winter in
the back corner of the cabin; kept a coffee pot on it and went to the
local McDonalds for whatever meals I didn't pack. I worked on the
Commander for more weekends than I can count and during the week
repaired parts or fabricated new - like a new panel to accept a used
King stack I saved from the Cardinal. After crawling all through the
Commanders bowels, lugging flaps home to clean out the birds nests; I
questioned what I had gotten myself into. Compared to the Cessna's I
refurbished previously, it felt like I had taken on repairing an
airliner. Eventually I got over its size, for the most part it was a
simple straight forward airplane.
I persisted though and in the following summer she was finally
ready to at least ferry to Pontiac where I intended to base the plane as
I was now working in the Detroit area and commuting back home to Holland
on the weekends. There was still plenty to do but enough work had been
accomplished to make her ferryable. By then I fabricated a new panel
with a modern 6 pack instrument arrangement that put the engine gages
over the throttle quadrant. I had placed the King stack to the right of
the throttle/prop/mixture pod and a Telex intercom made communication
between pilot and copilot sweet on the ears.
When the airplane was safe to fly luckily I had found and
befriended a great guy in Pontiac, Charlie Williamson who owned a 520.
We became fast Commander friends and Charlie agreed to help me get my
560 to Pontiac for an annual. The day finally arrived - Charlie and I
got dropped off in Tecumseh for the ferry ride. We fired up my prize
and after quickly realizing during the taxi process that we forgot to
release the parking brakes - we headed to the end of the grass strip
humorously referred to as Merrilat International. When the gear was
tucked away and as Charlie put it, "she climbs out like a "Homesick
Angel -we made a short uneventful trip to my tie down spot in Pontiac.
Over these many years I have worked on this bird tirelessly; I
don't think there is one thing that one could put his hand on that I
haven't touched on my Commander. If I had to pay for the labor out of
my pocket I'd bet dollars to doughnuts it'd have come to a million
bucks. But that's not the point. To borrow a phrase it's been my
'magnificent obsession'; a labor of love which I almost never considered
work except when I had to remake the MLG/motor mount trusses over twice
(if you don't anodize 7075-T6, it corrodes like you'd watch paint dry).
Recently I've been through both engines - new cams, new bearings, 1/2"
valves etc, etc!. What I thought were low time engines were the product
of an overhaul consisting of scraping every barely serviceable part off
the bench and cobbling the engines together. Twenty some years later
I'm still at it keeping 560 # 173 in one flyable piece as best I can.
Haven't lost the faith yet.
What I've tried to relate in the paragraphs above is about passion.
I think anyone who gets bit in the a$$ by aviation, then attached to
specific airplane along the way (think Bonanza snob - I wave my genitals
at those bums) or for that matter us "Commander" guys (I think there's a
Sheila out there too) is a passionate soul. The recent political banter
found here I think testifies to that fact and every truly died in the
wool American at the least wants the very best for this country.
I'm not offended and I for one don't mind reading about your
thoughts in this forum. An honest debate free of acrimony is what we
need more of, not less. If anything at least consider what is being
presented in the light of what should not be so difficult to recognize
as right and true.
As for my two cents, I'm of the opinion that the current cast of
political characters in Washington is an abomination to anyone with a
mustard seed worth of honest moral values. In one way or another, save
a few, they're all responsible for the mess this nation is in, morally,
spiritually, financially and none have the guts to do the right thing -
what we as Americans hunger for is simply the truth coupled with honest
action. Isn't it amazing no politician can figure that he/she could
stand out without pandering.
It's laughable that they who have the audacity (what book was that
again) to call the US car maker CEO's on the carpet for mismanagement
need look no further than the mirror for the real culprits in this sad
opera. Those pathetic deluded liars all deserve to be stripped of their
pensions, lifetime perks and thrown out of work just like they've done
to the citizens in this country. Who among us isn't fed up with the
political diarrhea that continually accomplishes nothing! We aren't
getting what we're paying so dearly for - only excuses instead of
results.
With the same passion I've let my knuckles be bruised on my
Commander over these years with, I sincerely desire this nation to
survive and prosper as our founding fathers so brilliantly designed it
to.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Passion politics & Commander |
Hi Gary,
The first thing that came to mind when I read your work about the Commander
was "now that's passion". I bet it will be hard to part with her if that day
should be in your future, which I hope it is not.
I'm going to keep this in my collection of pilot stories. (Website, one
day).
If you have pictures as you progressed, it'd be very nice to attach them to
the story.
Thanks
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Moshluk
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 5:50 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Passion politics & Commander
I bought my 1954 Aero Commander 560 in 1988 for just less than
$10,000.00. No props*, the logs showed 300 smoh on the left and 700 smoh on
the right - the interior had been gutted; pink fiberglass insulation was
falling off the ceiling and sidewalls - absolutely nothing for radios.
The mechanic I befriended years earlier that let me rebuild my first
airplane in his hangar a 150 I bought from him originally had plans to buy
it but unfortunately after an accident while testing a Cassutt Racer for one
of his customers ended up a paraplegic. Prior to the Commander purchase, I
had since traded the 150 for a Cessna Cardinal out of Wisconsin; flew it for
a few years and sold the Cardinal to purchase the Commander. *The Commander
props ended up on one of the defunct partners Widgeon - after too many
beers, he tried to taxi his Widgeon into the hangar...arrg!
My Commander was located in Tecumseh, Michigan which was two plus hours
from my home in Holland, Michigan. I used to spend weekends camping out in
the fuselage in order to have the bulk of the weekend to work on it. I had
a small kerosene heater for the Michigan winter in the back corner of the
cabin; kept a coffee pot on it and went to the local McDonalds for whatever
meals I didn't pack. I worked on the Commander for more weekends than I can
count and during the week repaired parts or fabricated new - like a new
panel to accept a used King stack I saved from the Cardinal. After crawling
all through the Commanders bowels, lugging flaps home to clean out the birds
nests; I questioned what I had gotten myself into. Compared to the Cessna's
I refurbished previously, it felt like I had taken on repairing an airliner.
Eventually I got over its size, for the most part it was a simple straight
forward airplane.
I persisted though and in the following summer she was finally ready to
at least ferry to Pontiac where I intended to base the plane as I was now
working in the Detroit area and commuting back home to Holland on the
weekends. There was still plenty to do but enough work had been
accomplished to make her ferryable. By then I fabricated a new panel with a
modern 6 pack instrument arrangement that put the engine gages over the
throttle quadrant. I had placed the King stack to the right of the
throttle/prop/mixture pod and a Telex intercom made communication between
pilot and copilot sweet on the ears.
When the airplane was safe to fly luckily I had found and befriended a
great guy in Pontiac, Charlie Williamson who owned a 520. We became fast
Commander friends and Charlie agreed to help me get my 560 to Pontiac for an
annual. The day finally arrived - Charlie and I got dropped off in Tecumseh
for the ferry ride. We fired up my prize and after quickly realizing during
the taxi process that we forgot to release the parking brakes - we headed to
the end of the grass strip humorously referred to as Merrilat International.
When the gear was tucked away and as Charlie put it, "she climbs out like a
"Homesick Angel -we made a short uneventful trip to my tie down spot in
Pontiac.
Over these many years I have worked on this bird tirelessly; I don't
think there is one thing that one could put his hand on that I haven't
touched on my Commander. If I had to pay for the labor out of my pocket I'd
bet dollars to doughnuts it'd have come to a million bucks. But that's not
the point. To borrow a phrase it's been my 'magnificent obsession'; a labor
of love which I almost never considered work except when I had to remake the
MLG/motor mount trusses over twice (if you don't anodize 7075-T6, it
corrodes like you'd watch paint dry). Recently I've been through both
engines - new cams, new bearings, 1/2" valves etc, etc!. What I thought
were low time engines were the product of an overhaul consisting of scraping
every barely serviceable part off the bench and cobbling the engines
together. Twenty some years later I'm still at it keeping 560 # 173 in one
flyable piece as best I can. Haven't lost the faith yet.
What I've tried to relate in the paragraphs above is about passion. I
think anyone who gets bit in the a$$ by aviation, then attached to specific
airplane along the way (think Bonanza snob - I wave my genitals at those
bums) or for that matter us "Commander" guys (I think there's a Sheila out
there too) is a passionate soul. The recent political banter found here I
think testifies to that fact and every truly died in the wool American at
the least wants the very best for this country.
I'm not offended and I for one don't mind reading about your thoughts
in this forum. An honest debate free of acrimony is what we need more of,
not less. If anything at least consider what is being presented in the
light of what should not be so difficult to recognize as right and true.
As for my two cents, I'm of the opinion that the current cast of
political characters in Washington is an abomination to anyone with a
mustard seed worth of honest moral values. In one way or another, save a
few, they're all responsible for the mess this nation is in, morally,
spiritually, financially and none have the guts to do the right thing - what
we as Americans hunger for is simply the truth coupled with honest action.
Isn't it amazing no politician can figure that he/she could stand out
without pandering.
It's laughable that they who have the audacity (what book was that
again) to call the US car maker CEO's on the carpet for mismanagement need
look no further than the mirror for the real culprits in this sad opera.
Those pathetic deluded liars all deserve to be stripped of their pensions,
lifetime perks and thrown out of work just like they've done to the citizens
in this country. Who among us isn't fed up with the political diarrhea that
continually accomplishes nothing! We aren't getting what we're paying so
dearly for - only excuses instead of results.
With the same passion I've let my knuckles be bruised on my Commander
over these years with, I sincerely desire this nation to survive and prosper
as our founding fathers so brilliantly designed it to.
Message 7
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Hi folks.
If anyone has any good commander pics you'd like to post, I've created a
Twin Commander Facebook site. So far it's dominated by Australians. needs a
bit of USA flavour I think.
The link is:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=38090073191
Cheers
Dave
Dr David Fitzgerald
BMedSci(Hons) MBBS(Hons) ACCAM DipAvMed(Otago)
DavidFitzgerald@bigpond.com
mob 0438 312973
_____
2:14 PM
Message 8
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----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Brady
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: opinions
Oh no you're not getting of the hook that easy....what have you got
against Studebakers?.....Seriously, getting back to flying machines,
some aircraft wrongly earn a reputation of being unsafe because they
show up in more accident/incident reports than others that are lumped
into the same category. In the late '50s through the '60s twin
Beeches,Azteks & Aerocommanders led the hit list at least in the midwest
flatlands & great lakes area where I was doing most of my flying at that
time. What wasn't considered by the hanger talk gurus was the fact that
these were the 24/7 allweather work horses of the time hauling mail,
checks, cargo & on demand charters yet their stats were lumped in with
everything under 10,500#...including thousands of
J3s,C140s,Luscombes,etc. Now we all know that a student pilot's main
mission in life is to destroy the aircraft & kill the instructor,but in
spite of that the incidents per flight hour stats were pretty good
compared to the work horses that spent a lot of their time picking their
way around tstms,landing in the middle of the night at an unattended
airstrip infested with patchy ground fog or landing an ice encrusted
airframe on a runway that could double as an olympic ice rink. During
this period an uneven number of Commanders were involved in landing
mishaps in icing conditions mostly loss of control during base to final
or unintentional off runway excursions after ugly touch downs. It seems
that compared to the majority of twinBs & Azteks most of the Commanders
had no windscreen deicing. An approved system for the A/Cs was very
costly so most went without depending instead on the high setting of the
heater's defog sometimes disasterally suplimented with cups of hot
coffee perched on the glare shield. A few of us went to the auto parts
store & hooked up a squeezebulb alcohol dispenser. Yes it worked & no it
was rarely spoken of & never in evidence during inspections.......Dan
the desert duck 77B
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Farmer
To: commander-list-digest@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:02 PM
Subject: Commander-List: opinions
Well folks hopefully I can bring this to an end. I will try
never to post a political thought on this web page. I am not angry with
any one and have sort of enjoy the roust but that is not what this site
is about. So I would like apologize to anyone I have offended and hope
no one ever leaves this site over a difference of opinion. Most have
heard about opinions--that they are like A wholes- everyone has one and
the other guys usually stinks:-)) I guess Jack Benny was right when he
said "it is to bad that the people who really know how to run the
country are too busy shining shoes and driving cabs". Now if we can get
back to Commanders and I am not talking Studebaker's.
Sincerely,
dan f
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