---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/30/09: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:22 AM - Re: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? (Jim Addington) 2. 08:09 AM - Re: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? (Robert Feldtman) 3. 08:33 AM - Re: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? (MASON CHEVAILLIER) 4. 08:40 AM - Re: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? (Jim Addington) 5. 08:52 AM - Re: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? (Jim Addington) 6. 10:04 AM - Re: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? (L D GIROD) 7. 10:23 AM - Re: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? (Jim Addington) 8. 03:54 PM - Re: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? (Robert Feldtman) 9. 05:04 PM - Re: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? (Jim Addington) 10. 05:39 PM - Re: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? (Robert Feldtman) 11. 05:41 PM - Re: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? (Robert S. Randazzo) 12. 06:33 PM - Stec65 (Dan Farmer) 13. 06:44 PM - Re: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? (Deneal Schilmeister (MacbookPro)) 14. 08:56 PM - Re: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? (Jim Addington) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:27 AM PST US From: "Jim Addington" Subject: RE: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Robert, My 500A was the one that S-Tec used for the STC after I hounded them for three years. I had them install the 65 with all the whistles and bells and I also was used to big iron where there was a warning when it disconnected. That has been my only disappointment in that autopilot. I looked at my map that was on a clip board and accidently laid it on the disconnect switch. We were at night IFR and it started to drift off before I caught what had happened. I have thought about putting a small cup under the switch so that would not happen again but have not done it yet because I have not been able to fly much in the last two years. A friend of mine drew out the plans for putting trim and disconnect switches on the right side but have not done that either. It has been a really good autopilot. Jim Addington 500A N444BD _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S. Randazzo Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 12:15 AM Subject: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Commanders- Anyone here have much experience with the S-Tec System 65 autopilot? At issue is whether or not there should be an aural warning when pressing the A/P disconnect switch. I'm spoiled by all the transport time where the A/P disconnect is announced at about 5,000db... just to make sure you notice it. I find it strange that when I hit the disco button on this autopilot- it quietly releases the airplane without so much as a peep. What if it disconnects in flight on it's own for some reason? EA301? Robert S. Randazzo N414C ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? From: Robert Feldtman Assuming you are referring to the red disconnect switch on the yoke (horns) -- I'd be cautious about putting anything that makes a quick disconnect delayed in any fashion. Once on my turboprop commander, by myself, night time, tired after a weekend of AF Reserve duty at Carswell, very busy (ATC - go fast to the OM at Hobby!)) I got very busy over the OM, and was flying the autopilot coupled ILS approach - the elevator command went fairly rapidly nose up as I lowered gear, and pulled back turboprop power to fligh t idle to slow down - it slowed down faster than I realized, and the AP command was to stay on the glideslope, which meant go up, pitch up. fortunately, I was aware and on top of it and was able to smoothly kill the autopilot with the red quick dissconect on the yoke as I nosed it over a little and added power. Any delay in doing that with a switch override - could cause someone to have to fight the autopilot (which one COULD do - bu t t would be unusally hard push).... so I'd be careful changing out the quick disconnect. I didn't stall - but it scared me ( I was IMC during this - broke out shortly later) - will be good to see what the big iron guys have to say about this. As a flight surgeon, it made me review what "my" limits should be in flying IMC when tired, at night and single pilot. Something everyone should think about. bobf On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Jim Addington wro te: > Robert, > > My 500A was the one that S-Tec used for the STC after I hounded them for > three years. I had them install the 65 with all the whistles and bells an d I > also was used to big iron where there was a warning when it disconnected. > That has been my only disappointment in that autopilot. I looked at my ma p > that was on a clip board and accidently laid it on the disconnect switch. We > were at night IFR and it started to drift off before I caught what had > happened. I have thought about putting a small cup under the switch so th at > would not happen again but have not done it yet because I have not been a ble > to fly much in the last two years. A friend of mine drew out the plans fo r > putting trim and disconnect switches on the right side but have not done > that either. It has been a really good autopilot. > > Jim Addington > > 500A > > N444BD > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert S. > Randazzo > *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2009 12:15 AM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? > > > Commanders- > > > Anyone here have much experience with the S-Tec System 65 autopilot? > > > At issue is whether or not there should be an aural warning when pressing > the A/P disconnect switch. > > > I=92m spoiled by all the transport time where the A/P disconnect is annou nced > at about 5,000db... just to make sure you notice it=85 > > > I find it strange that when I hit the disco button on this autopilot- it > quietly releases the airplane without so much as a peep. What if it > disconnects in flight on it=92s own for some reason? EA301? > > > Robert S. Randazzo > > N414C > > * * > > * * > > * - The Commander-List Email Forum -* > > ** > > ** > > *--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > > ** > > * - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -* > > * - List Contribution Web Site -* > > * -Matt Dralle, List Admin.* > > ** > > * * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:00 AM PST US From: MASON CHEVAILLIER Subject: RE: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? the century 2000 system in 70QT has the warning on first click or turbulanc e disconnect. noise off w/ second click. gmc Subject: Re: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? From: bobf@feldtman.com Assuming you are referring to the red disconnect switch on the yoke (horns) -- I'd be cautious about putting anything that makes a quick disconnect de layed in any fashion. Once on my turboprop commander=2C by myself=2C night time=2C tired after a weekend of AF Reserve duty at Carswell=2C very busy ( ATC - go fast to the OM at Hobby!)) I got very busy over the OM=2C and was flying the autopilot coupled ILS approach - the elevator command went fairl y rapidly nose up as I lowered gear=2C and pulled back turboprop power to f light idle to slow down - it slowed down faster than I realized=2C and the AP command was to stay on the glideslope=2C which meant go up=2C pitch up. fortunately=2C I was aware and on top of it and was able to smoothly kill t he autopilot with the red quick dissconect on the yoke as I nosed it over a little and added power. Any delay in doing that with a switch override - c ould cause someone to have to fight the autopilot (which one COULD do - but t would be unusally hard push).... so I'd be careful changing out the quic k disconnect. I didn't stall - but it scared me ( I was IMC during this - broke out short ly later) - will be good to see what the big iron guys have to say about th is. As a flight surgeon=2C it made me review what "my" limits should be in flyi ng IMC when tired=2C at night and single pilot. Something everyone should t hink about. bobf On Mon=2C Mar 30=2C 2009 at 9:21 AM=2C Jim Addington wrote: Robert=2C My 500A was the one that S-Tec used for the STC after I hounded them for th ree years. I had them install the 65 with all the whistles and bells and I also was used to big iron where there was a warning when it disconnected. T hat has been my only disappointment in that autopilot. I looked at my map t hat was on a clip board and accidently laid it on the disconnect switch. We were at night IFR and it started to drift off before I caught what had hap pened. I have thought about putting a small cup under the switch so that wo uld not happen again but have not done it yet because I have not been able to fly much in the last two years. A friend of mine drew out the plans for putting trim and disconnect switches on the right side but have not done th at either. It has been a really good autopilot. Jim Addington 500A N444BD From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S. Randazzo Sent: Monday=2C March 30=2C 2009 12:15 AM Subject: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Commanders- Anyone here have much experience with the S-Tec System 65 autopilot? At issue is whether or not there should be an aural warning when pressing t he A/P disconnect switch. I=92m spoiled by all the transport time where the A/P disconnect is announc ed at about 5=2C000db... just to make sure you notice it=85 I find it strange that when I hit the disco button on this autopilot- it qu ietly releases the airplane without so much as a peep. What if it disconne cts in flight on it=92s own for some reason? EA301? Robert S. Randazzo N414C - The Commander-List Email Forum ---> http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Commander-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle =2C List Admin. " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:28 AM PST US From: "Jim Addington" Subject: RE: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? I was not going to change the switch, just put an upside down cap under it so I can get to it but it would be protected from being accidently punched. The L-1011 accident in FL many years ago is why the airlines went to the warning. I have been surprised that the light plane auto pilots don't have that. What did you fly in the AF Reserve? To tell you how old I am I flew the B-47 and will have had my license 50 years the 24 of this month. I flew for Delta for almost 33 years. My medical is in jeopardy though. They have had it for four months and finally sent me a letter that it was going to the neurologist. At least they have not said no yet. I had 9 different Drs. check me from stem to stern and found nothing so I think it was what I thought all along. I had been under a lot of stress with my wife's death and we had painted the house inside and put down new carpet. The smells is what I think was my problem because I have not had it since. Jim _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Feldtman Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:08 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Assuming you are referring to the red disconnect switch on the yoke (horns) -- I'd be cautious about putting anything that makes a quick disconnect delayed in any fashion. Once on my turboprop commander, by myself, night time, tired after a weekend of AF Reserve duty at Carswell, very busy (ATC - go fast to the OM at Hobby!)) I got very busy over the OM, and was flying the autopilot coupled ILS approach - the elevator command went fairly rapidly nose up as I lowered gear, and pulled back turboprop power to flight idle to slow down - it slowed down faster than I realized, and the AP command was to stay on the glideslope, which meant go up, pitch up. fortunately, I was aware and on top of it and was able to smoothly kill the autopilot with the red quick dissconect on the yoke as I nosed it over a little and added power. Any delay in doing that with a switch override - could cause someone to have to fight the autopilot (which one COULD do - but t would be unusally hard push).... so I'd be careful changing out the quick disconnect. I didn't stall - but it scared me ( I was IMC during this - broke out shortly later) - will be good to see what the big iron guys have to say about this. As a flight surgeon, it made me review what "my" limits should be in flying IMC when tired, at night and single pilot. Something everyone should think about. bobf On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Jim Addington wrote: Robert, My 500A was the one that S-Tec used for the STC after I hounded them for three years. I had them install the 65 with all the whistles and bells and I also was used to big iron where there was a warning when it disconnected. That has been my only disappointment in that autopilot. I looked at my map that was on a clip board and accidently laid it on the disconnect switch. We were at night IFR and it started to drift off before I caught what had happened. I have thought about putting a small cup under the switch so that would not happen again but have not done it yet because I have not been able to fly much in the last two years. A friend of mine drew out the plans for putting trim and disconnect switches on the right side but have not done that either. It has been a really good autopilot. Jim Addington 500A N444BD _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S. Randazzo Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 12:15 AM Subject: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Commanders- Anyone here have much experience with the S-Tec System 65 autopilot? At issue is whether or not there should be an aural warning when pressing the A/P disconnect switch. I'm spoiled by all the transport time where the A/P disconnect is announced at about 5,000db... just to make sure you notice it. I find it strange that when I hit the disco button on this autopilot- it quietly releases the airplane without so much as a peep. What if it disconnects in flight on it's own for some reason? EA301? Robert S. Randazzo N414C - The Commander-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:14 AM PST US From: "Jim Addington" Subject: RE: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? That is the way it should be, that is the way the airliners are and it works great. Jim _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MASON CHEVAILLIER Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:28 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? the century 2000 system in 70QT has the warning on first click or turbulance disconnect. noise off w/ second click. gmc _____ Subject: Re: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? From: bobf@feldtman.com Assuming you are referring to the red disconnect switch on the yoke (horns) -- I'd be cautious about putting anything that makes a quick disconnect delayed in any fashion. Once on my turboprop commander, by myself, night time, tired after a weekend of AF Reserve duty at Carswell, very busy (ATC - go fast to the OM at Hobby!)) I got very busy over the OM, and was flying the autopilot coupled ILS approach - the elevator command went fairly rapidly nose up as I lowered gear, and pulled back turboprop power to flight idle to slow down - it slowed down faster than I realized, and the AP command was to stay on the glideslope, which meant go up, pitch up. fortunately, I was aware and on top of it and was able to smoothly kill the autopilot with the red quick dissconect on the yoke as I nosed it over a little and added power. Any delay in doing that with a switch override - could cause someone to have to fight the autopilot (which one COULD do - but t would be unusally hard push).... so I'd be careful changing out the quick disconnect. I didn't stall - but it scared me ( I was IMC during this - broke out shortly later) - will be good to see what the big iron guys have to say about this. As a flight surgeon, it made me review what "my" limits should be in flying IMC when tired, at night and single pilot. Something everyone should think about. bobf On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Jim Addington wrote: Robert, My 500A was the one that S-Tec used for the STC after I hounded them for three years. I had them install the 65 with all the whistles and bells and I also was used to big iron where there was a warning when it disconnected. That has been my only disappointment in that autopilot. I looked at my map that was on a clip board and accidently laid it on the disconnect switch. We were at night IFR and it started to drift off before I caught what had happened. I have thought about putting a small cup under the switch so that would not happen again but have not done it yet because I have not been able to fly much in the last two years. A friend of mine drew out the plans for putting trim and disconnect switches on the right side but have not done that either. It has been a really good autopilot. Jim Addington 500A N444BD _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S. Randazzo Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 12:15 AM Subject: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Commanders- Anyone here have much experience with the S-Tec System 65 autopilot? At issue is whether or not there should be an aural warning when pressing the A/P disconnect switch. I'm spoiled by all the transport time where the A/P disconnect is announced at about 5,000db... just to make sure you notice it. I find it strange that when I hit the disco button on this autopilot- it quietly releases the airplane without so much as a peep. What if it disconnects in flight on it's own for some reason? EA301? Robert S. Randazzo N414C - The Commander-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:51 AM PST US From: "L D GIROD" Subject: Re: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Jim; I think the L-1011 accident was because the autopilot on the L-1011 had 'control wheel steering', the crew pushed forward on the yoke trying to check or change a gear light, and put enough pressure on the yoke to start a very slow, 50 FPM as I recall decent. Since it was a manual input the airplane thought that was what was desired and the 250 ft. altitude warning was bypassed. They went back and rewired that command. As I understand it, the auto pilot was never disengaged. That and some non normal terminology from ATC, such as "Eastern, everything OK" instead of asking why they had left their assigned altitude. As normal, it was a series of mistakes that let to a tragic accident. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Addington To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:39 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? I was not going to change the switch, just put an upside down cap under it so I can get to it but it would be protected from being accidently punched. The L-1011 accident in FL many years ago is why the airlines went to the warning. I have been surprised that the light plane auto pilots don't have that. What did you fly in the AF Reserve? To tell you how old I am I flew the B-47 and will have had my license 50 years the 24 of this month. I flew for Delta for almost 33 years. My medical is in jeopardy though. They have had it for four months and finally sent me a letter that it was going to the neurologist. At least they have not said no yet. I had 9 different Drs. check me from stem to stern and found nothing so I think it was what I thought all along. I had been under a lot of stress with my wife's death and we had painted the house inside and put down new carpet. The smells is what I think was my problem because I have not had it since. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Feldtman Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:08 AM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Assuming you are referring to the red disconnect switch on the yoke (horns) -- I'd be cautious about putting anything that makes a quick disconnect delayed in any fashion. Once on my turboprop commander, by myself, night time, tired after a weekend of AF Reserve duty at Carswell, very busy (ATC - go fast to the OM at Hobby!)) I got very busy over the OM, and was flying the autopilot coupled ILS approach - the elevator command went fairly rapidly nose up as I lowered gear, and pulled back turboprop power to flight idle to slow down - it slowed down faster than I realized, and the AP command was to stay on the glideslope, which meant go up, pitch up. fortunately, I was aware and on top of it and was able to smoothly kill the autopilot with the red quick dissconect on the yoke as I nosed it over a little and added power. Any delay in doing that with a switch override - could cause someone to have to fight the autopilot (which one COULD do - but t would be unusally hard push).... so I'd be careful changing out the quick disconnect. I didn't stall - but it scared me ( I was IMC during this - broke out shortly later) - will be good to see what the big iron guys have to say about this. As a flight surgeon, it made me review what "my" limits should be in flying IMC when tired, at night and single pilot. Something everyone should think about. bobf On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Jim Addington wrote: Robert, My 500A was the one that S-Tec used for the STC after I hounded them for three years. I had them install the 65 with all the whistles and bells and I also was used to big iron where there was a warning when it disconnected. That has been my only disappointment in that autopilot. I looked at my map that was on a clip board and accidently laid it on the disconnect switch. We were at night IFR and it started to drift off before I caught what had happened. I have thought about putting a small cup under the switch so that would not happen again but have not done it yet because I have not been able to fly much in the last two years. A friend of mine drew out the plans for putting trim and disconnect switches on the right side but have not done that either. It has been a really good autopilot. Jim Addington 500A N444BD ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S. Randazzo Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 12:15 AM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Commanders- Anyone here have much experience with the S-Tec System 65 autopilot? At issue is whether or not there should be an aural warning when pressing the A/P disconnect switch. I'm spoiled by all the transport time where the A/P disconnect is announced at about 5,000db... just to make sure you notice it. I find it strange that when I hit the disco button on this autopilot- it quietly releases the airplane without so much as a peep. What if it disconnects in flight on it's own for some reason? EA301? Robert S. Randazzo N414C - The Commander-List Email Forum ---> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listttp:// forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution - The Commander-List Email Forum ---> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:48 AM PST US From: "Jim Addington" Subject: RE: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? You could very well be right. I flew the L-1011 but retired 12 years ago and can't remember where I laid my pen down two minutes ago any more. Jim _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of L D GIROD Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Jim; I think the L-1011 accident was because the autopilot on the L-1011 had 'control wheel steering', the crew pushed forward on the yoke trying to check or change a gear light, and put enough pressure on the yoke to start a very slow, 50 FPM as I recall decent. Since it was a manual input the airplane thought that was what was desired and the 250 ft. altitude warning was bypassed. They went back and rewired that command. As I understand it, the auto pilot was never disengaged. That and some non normal terminology from ATC, such as "Eastern, everything OK" instead of asking why they had left their assigned altitude. As normal, it was a series of mistakes that let to a tragic accident. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Addington Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:39 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? I was not going to change the switch, just put an upside down cap under it so I can get to it but it would be protected from being accidently punched. The L-1011 accident in FL many years ago is why the airlines went to the warning. I have been surprised that the light plane auto pilots don't have that. What did you fly in the AF Reserve? To tell you how old I am I flew the B-47 and will have had my license 50 years the 24 of this month. I flew for Delta for almost 33 years. My medical is in jeopardy though. They have had it for four months and finally sent me a letter that it was going to the neurologist. At least they have not said no yet. I had 9 different Drs. check me from stem to stern and found nothing so I think it was what I thought all along. I had been under a lot of stress with my wife's death and we had painted the house inside and put down new carpet. The smells is what I think was my problem because I have not had it since. Jim _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Feldtman Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:08 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Assuming you are referring to the red disconnect switch on the yoke (horns) -- I'd be cautious about putting anything that makes a quick disconnect delayed in any fashion. Once on my turboprop commander, by myself, night time, tired after a weekend of AF Reserve duty at Carswell, very busy (ATC - go fast to the OM at Hobby!)) I got very busy over the OM, and was flying the autopilot coupled ILS approach - the elevator command went fairly rapidly nose up as I lowered gear, and pulled back turboprop power to flight idle to slow down - it slowed down faster than I realized, and the AP command was to stay on the glideslope, which meant go up, pitch up. fortunately, I was aware and on top of it and was able to smoothly kill the autopilot with the red quick dissconect on the yoke as I nosed it over a little and added power. Any delay in doing that with a switch override - could cause someone to have to fight the autopilot (which one COULD do - but t would be unusally hard push).... so I'd be careful changing out the quick disconnect. I didn't stall - but it scared me ( I was IMC during this - broke out shortly later) - will be good to see what the big iron guys have to say about this. As a flight surgeon, it made me review what "my" limits should be in flying IMC when tired, at night and single pilot. Something everyone should think about. bobf On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Jim Addington wrote: Robert, My 500A was the one that S-Tec used for the STC after I hounded them for three years. I had them install the 65 with all the whistles and bells and I also was used to big iron where there was a warning when it disconnected. That has been my only disappointment in that autopilot. I looked at my map that was on a clip board and accidently laid it on the disconnect switch. We were at night IFR and it started to drift off before I caught what had happened. I have thought about putting a small cup under the switch so that would not happen again but have not done it yet because I have not been able to fly much in the last two years. A friend of mine drew out the plans for putting trim and disconnect switches on the right side but have not done that either. It has been a really good autopilot. Jim Addington 500A N444BD _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S. Randazzo Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 12:15 AM Subject: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Commanders- Anyone here have much experience with the S-Tec System 65 autopilot? At issue is whether or not there should be an aural warning when pressing the A/P disconnect switch. I'm spoiled by all the transport time where the A/P disconnect is announced at about 5,000db... just to make sure you notice it. I find it strange that when I hit the disco button on this autopilot- it quietly releases the airplane without so much as a peep. What if it disconnects in flight on it's own for some reason? EA301? Robert S. Randazzo N414C - The Commander-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution - The Commander-List Email Forum - <>--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? From: Robert Feldtman I flew a stethoscope and scalpel.... along with being a flight surgeon in some airplanes and helicopters but could never log "stick time: :):) Back in the good ol' days of medicine, it allowed me the ability to have a turbo-commander - at 70 gals per hour/ but no longer! Lucky to have a glastar that burns 7 gals per hour/ Larry Pullen and Tom LeBootllier are good buddies of mine from Delta who have flown my commanders when we have gone fishing. They've long lost their medicals due to heart problems. but we stay in touch. bobf On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Jim Addington wr ote: > I was not going to change the switch, just put an upside down cap under > it so I can get to it but it would be protected from being accidently > punched. The L-1011 accident in FL many years ago is why the airlines wen t > to the warning. I have been surprised that the light plane auto pilots do n=92t > have that. What did you fly in the AF Reserve? To tell you how old I am I > flew the B-47 and will have had my license 50 years the 24 of this month. I > flew for Delta for almost 33 years. My medical is in jeopardy though. The y > have had it for four months and finally sent me a letter that it was goin g > to the neurologist. At least they have not said no yet. I had 9 different > Drs. check me from stem to stern and found nothing so I think it was what > I thought all along. I had been under a lot of stress with my wife=92s de ath > and we had painted the house inside and put down new carpet. The smells i s > what I think was my problem because I have not had it since. > > Jim > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert Feldtman > *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2009 10:08 AM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? > > > Assuming you are referring to the red disconnect switch on the yoke (horn s) > -- I'd be cautious about putting anything that makes a quick disconnect > delayed in any fashion. Once on my turboprop commander, by myself, night > time, tired after a weekend of AF Reserve duty at Carswell, very busy (AT C - > go fast to the OM at Hobby!)) I got very busy over the OM, and was flying > the autopilot coupled ILS approach - the elevator command went fairly > rapidly nose up as I lowered gear, and pulled back turboprop power to fli ght > idle to slow down - it slowed down faster than I realized, and the AP > command was to stay on the glideslope, which meant go up, pitch up. > fortunately, I was aware and on top of it and was able to smoothly kill t he > autopilot with the red quick dissconect on the yoke as I nosed it over a > little and added power. Any delay in doing that with a switch override - > could cause someone to have to fight the autopilot (which one COULD do - but > t would be unusally hard push).... so I'd be careful changing out the qui ck > disconnect. > > > I didn't stall - but it scared me ( I was IMC during this - broke out > shortly later) - will be good to see what the big iron guys have to say > about this. > > > As a flight surgeon, it made me review what "my" limits should be in flyi ng > IMC when tired, at night and single pilot. Something everyone should thin k > about. > > > bobf > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Jim Addington > wrote: > > Robert, > > My 500A was the one that S-Tec used for the STC after I hounded them for > three years. I had them install the 65 with all the whistles and bells an d I > also was used to big iron where there was a warning when it disconnected. > That has been my only disappointment in that autopilot. I looked at my ma p > that was on a clip board and accidently laid it on the disconnect switch. We > were at night IFR and it started to drift off before I caught what had > happened. I have thought about putting a small cup under the switch so th at > would not happen again but have not done it yet because I have not been a ble > to fly much in the last two years. A friend of mine drew out the plans fo r > putting trim and disconnect switches on the right side but have not done > that either. It has been a really good autopilot. > > Jim Addington > > 500A > > N444BD > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert S. > Randazzo > *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2009 12:15 AM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? > > > Commanders- > > > Anyone here have much experience with the S-Tec System 65 autopilot? > > > At issue is whether or not there should be an aural warning when pressing > the A/P disconnect switch. > > > I=92m spoiled by all the transport time where the A/P disconnect is annou nced > at about 5,000db... just to make sure you notice it=85 > > > I find it strange that when I hit the disco button on this autopilot- it > quietly releases the airplane without so much as a peep. What if it > disconnects in flight on it=92s own for some reason? EA301? > > > Robert S. Randazzo > > N414C > > * * > > * * > > * - The Commander-List Email Forum -* > > *--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > > * - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -* > > * - List Contribution Web Site -* > > * -Matt Dralle, List Admin.* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > *" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > > *ttp://forums.matronics.com* > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > > * * > > * * > > * - The Commander-List Email Forum -* > > ** > > ** > > *--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > > ** > > * - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -* > > * - List Contribution Web Site -* > > * -Matt Dralle, List Admin.* > > ** > > * * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > * > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:00 PM PST US From: "Jim Addington" Subject: RE: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? I took my physical for the AF at Carswell and went through the altitude chamber there too. This was in 1959. I almost forgot I got a B-36 ride there too. I live in Denton and got on the 100th BW list and found out the navigator we had on the crew at Pease AFB lives in Arlington and I joined the QB's and ran in to t he Ops Officer of one of the squadrons lives in Dallas. I had not seen either of them since 1963. Jim _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Feldtman Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 5:52 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? I flew a stethoscope and scalpel.... along with being a flight surgeon in some airplanes and helicopters but could never log "stick time: :):) Back in the good ol' days of medicine, it allowed me the ability to have a turbo-commander - at 70 gals per hour/ but no longer! Lucky to have a glastar that burns 7 gals per hour/ Larry Pullen and Tom LeBootllier are good buddies of mine from Delta who have flown my commanders when we have gone fishing. They've long lost their medicals due to heart problems. but we stay in touch. bobf On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Jim Addington wrote: I was not going to change the switch, just put an upside down cap under it so I can get to it but it would be protected from being accidently punched. The L-1011 accident in FL many years ago is why the airlines went to the warning. I have been surprised that the light plane auto pilots don't have that. What did you fly in the AF Reserve? To tell you how old I am I flew the B-47 and will have had my license 50 years the 24 of this month. I flew for Delta for almost 33 years. My medical is in jeopardy though. They have had it for four months and finally sent me a letter that it was going to the neurologist. At least they have not said no yet. I had 9 different Drs. check me from stem to stern and found nothing so I think it was what I thought all along. I had been under a lot of stress with my wife's death and we had painted the house inside and put down new carpet. The smells is what I think was my problem because I have not had it since. Jim _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Feldtman Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:08 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Assuming you are referring to the red disconnect switch on the yoke (horns) -- I'd be cautious about putting anything that makes a quick disconnect delayed in any fashion. Once on my turboprop commander, by myself, night time, tired after a weekend of AF Reserve duty at Carswell, very busy (ATC - go fast to the OM at Hobby!)) I got very busy over the OM, and was flying the autopilot coupled ILS approach - the elevator command went fairly rapidly nose up as I lowered gear, and pulled back turboprop power to flight idle to slow down - it slowed down faster than I realized, and the AP command was to stay on the glideslope, which meant go up, pitch up. fortunately, I was aware and on top of it and was able to smoothly kill the autopilot with the red quick dissconect on the yoke as I nosed it over a little and added power. Any delay in doing that with a switch override - could cause someone to have to fight the autopilot (which one COULD do - but t would be unusally hard push).... so I'd be careful changing out the quick disconnect. I didn't stall - but it scared me ( I was IMC during this - broke out shortly later) - will be good to see what the big iron guys have to say about this. As a flight surgeon, it made me review what "my" limits should be in flying IMC when tired, at night and single pilot. Something everyone should think about. bobf On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Jim Addington wrote: Robert, My 500A was the one that S-Tec used for the STC after I hounded them for three years. I had them install the 65 with all the whistles and bells and I also was used to big iron where there was a warning when it disconnected. That has been my only disappointment in that autopilot. I looked at my map that was on a clip board and accidently laid it on the disconnect switch. We were at night IFR and it started to drift off before I caught what had happened. I have thought about putting a small cup under the switch so that would not happen again but have not done it yet because I have not been able to fly much in the last two years. A friend of mine drew out the plans for putting trim and disconnect switches on the right side but have not done that either. It has been a really good autopilot. Jim Addington 500A N444BD _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S. Randazzo Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 12:15 AM Subject: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Commanders- Anyone here have much experience with the S-Tec System 65 autopilot? At issue is whether or not there should be an aural warning when pressing the A/P disconnect switch. I'm spoiled by all the transport time where the A/P disconnect is announced at about 5,000db... just to make sure you notice it. I find it strange that when I hit the disco button on this autopilot- it quietly releases the airplane without so much as a peep. What if it disconnects in flight on it's own for some reason? EA301? Robert S. Randazzo N414C - The Commander-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution - The Commander-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? From: Robert Feldtman my off line email is bobf@feldtman.com bobf On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Jim Addington wro te: > I took my physical for the AF at Carswell and went through the altitude > chamber there too. This was in 1959. I almost forgot I got a B-36 ride th ere > too. I live in Denton and got on the 100th BW list and found out the > navigator we had on the crew at Pease AFB lives in Arlington and I joined > the QB=92s and ran in to t he Ops Officer of one of the squadrons lives i n > Dallas. I had not seen either of them since 1963. > > Jim > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert Feldtman > *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2009 5:52 PM > > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? > > > I flew a stethoscope and scalpel.... along with being a flight surgeon in > some airplanes and helicopters but could never log "stick time: :):) Bac k > in the good ol' days of medicine, it allowed me the ability to have a > turbo-commander - at 70 gals per hour/ but no longer! Lucky to have a > glastar that burns 7 gals per hour/ > > Larry Pullen and Tom LeBootllier are good buddies of mine from Delta who > have flown my commanders when we have gone fishing. They've long lost the ir > medicals due to heart problems. but we stay in touch. > > bobf > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Jim Addington > wrote: > > I was not going to change the switch, just put an upside down cap under i t > so I can get to it but it would be protected from being accidently punche d. > The L-1011 accident in FL many years ago is why the airlines went to the > warning. I have been surprised that the light plane auto pilots don=92t h ave > that. What did you fly in the AF Reserve? To tell you how old I am I flew > the B-47 and will have had my license 50 years the 24 of this month. I fl ew > for Delta for almost 33 years. My medical is in jeopardy though. They hav e > had it for four months and finally sent me a letter that it was going to the > neurologist. At least they have not said no yet. I had 9 different Drs. > check me from stem to stern and found nothing so I think it was what I > thought all along. I had been under a lot of stress with my wife=92s deat h and > we had painted the house inside and put down new carpet. The smells is wh at > I think was my problem because I have not had it since. > > Jim > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert Feldtman > *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2009 10:08 AM > > > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? > > > Assuming you are referring to the red disconnect switch on the yoke (horn s) > -- I'd be cautious about putting anything that makes a quick disconnect > delayed in any fashion. Once on my turboprop commander, by myself, night > time, tired after a weekend of AF Reserve duty at Carswell, very busy (AT C - > go fast to the OM at Hobby!)) I got very busy over the OM, and was flying > the autopilot coupled ILS approach - the elevator command went fairly > rapidly nose up as I lowered gear, and pulled back turboprop power to fli ght > idle to slow down - it slowed down faster than I realized, and the AP > command was to stay on the glideslope, which meant go up, pitch up. > fortunately, I was aware and on top of it and was able to smoothly kill t he > autopilot with the red quick dissconect on the yoke as I nosed it over a > little and added power. Any delay in doing that with a switch override - > could cause someone to have to fight the autopilot (which one COULD do - but > t would be unusally hard push).... so I'd be careful changing out the qui ck > disconnect. > > > I didn't stall - but it scared me ( I was IMC during this - broke out > shortly later) - will be good to see what the big iron guys have to say > about this. > > > As a flight surgeon, it made me review what "my" limits should be in flyi ng > IMC when tired, at night and single pilot. Something everyone should thin k > about. > > > bobf > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Jim Addington > wrote: > > Robert, > > My 500A was the one that S-Tec used for the STC after I hounded them for > three years. I had them install the 65 with all the whistles and bells an d I > also was used to big iron where there was a warning when it disconnected. > That has been my only disappointment in that autopilot. I looked at my ma p > that was on a clip board and accidently laid it on the disconnect switch. We > were at night IFR and it started to drift off before I caught what had > happened. I have thought about putting a small cup under the switch so th at > would not happen again but have not done it yet because I have not been a ble > to fly much in the last two years. A friend of mine drew out the plans fo r > putting trim and disconnect switches on the right side but have not done > that either. It has been a really good autopilot. > > Jim Addington > > 500A > > N444BD > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert S. > Randazzo > *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2009 12:15 AM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? > > > Commanders- > > > Anyone here have much experience with the S-Tec System 65 autopilot? > > > At issue is whether or not there should be an aural warning when pressing > the A/P disconnect switch. > > > I=92m spoiled by all the transport time where the A/P disconnect is annou nced > at about 5,000db... just to make sure you notice it=85 > > > I find it strange that when I hit the disco button on this autopilot- it > quietly releases the airplane without so much as a peep. What if it > disconnects in flight on it=92s own for some reason? EA301? > > > Robert S. Randazzo > > N414C > > * * > > * * > > * - The Commander-List Email Forum -* > > *--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > > * - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -* > > * - List Contribution Web Site -* > > * -Matt Dralle, List Admin.* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > *" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > > *ttp://forums.matronics.com* > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > > * * > > * * > > * - The Commander-List Email Forum -* > > *--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > > * - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -* > > * - List Contribution Web Site -* > > * -Matt Dralle, List Admin.* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > *" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > > * * > > *tp://forums.matronics.com* > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > > * * > > * * > > * - The Commander-List Email Forum -* > > ** > > ** > > *--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List* > > ** > > * - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -* > > * - List Contribution Web Site -* > > * -Matt Dralle, List Admin.* > > ** > > * * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:04 PM PST US From: "Robert S. Randazzo" Subject: RE: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Jim- Thanks- I suspected this would be the case. In the pin diagrams there is mention of wires for an aural warning, but nobody at S-Tec could tell us why- or how to implement them in the installation. I suspect it was part of the design that was never implemented. So far I'm really enjoying the 65 autopilot. It's an older design that is missing some of the VNAV/LPV capabilities of the newer digital autopilots- but most of the transports I've flown didn't have those capabilities either- so I'll probably not miss them. And then there's the old decision making theory that while flying myself around single pilot- I probably shouldn't put myself into a position to need those capabilities. ;-) Robert S. Randazzo N414C From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Addington Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:21 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Robert, My 500A was the one that S-Tec used for the STC after I hounded them for three years. I had them install the 65 with all the whistles and bells and I also was used to big iron where there was a warning when it disconnected. That has been my only disappointment in that autopilot. I looked at my map that was on a clip board and accidently laid it on the disconnect switch. We were at night IFR and it started to drift off before I caught what had happened. I have thought about putting a small cup under the switch so that would not happen again but have not done it yet because I have not been able to fly much in the last two years. A friend of mine drew out the plans for putting trim and disconnect switches on the right side but have not done that either. It has been a really good autopilot. Jim Addington 500A N444BD _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S. Randazzo Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 12:15 AM Subject: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Commanders- Anyone here have much experience with the S-Tec System 65 autopilot? At issue is whether or not there should be an aural warning when pressing the A/P disconnect switch. I'm spoiled by all the transport time where the A/P disconnect is announced at about 5,000db... just to make sure you notice it. I find it strange that when I hit the disco button on this autopilot- it quietly releases the airplane without so much as a peep. What if it disconnects in flight on it's own for some reason? EA301? Robert S. Randazzo N414C - The Commander-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:06 PM PST US From: Dan Farmer Subject: Commander-List: Stec65 Robert, I have an S tec 65 and I do not have an aural warning either.- I will try to check my manual for the AP to see.- dan f =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:06 PM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? From: "Deneal Schilmeister (MacbookPro)" When Robert first posed this question, I thought oh yeah, the Lears I flew (part 25 cert) had aural warnings. Then I remembered that the brand new Cessna 421C I flew in 1978 had aural warnings as well. So its not a Part 23 vs 25 thing I guess. -- Deneal Schilmeister 911 Imperial Pt Manchester, MO 63021-6934 (636) 825-2335 home (314) 956-3344 cell deneals@deneals.com http://deneals.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:23 PM PST US From: "Jim Addington" Subject: RE: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? It has been so long since I flew IFR that I would not dare try it unless it was a high ceiling. I have filled that square. If I don't get my medical back I may have to sell the plane anyway. Jim _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S. Randazzo Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:39 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Jim- Thanks- I suspected this would be the case. In the pin diagrams there is mention of wires for an aural warning, but nobody at S-Tec could tell us why- or how to implement them in the installation. I suspect it was part of the design that was never implemented. So far I'm really enjoying the 65 autopilot. It's an older design that is missing some of the VNAV/LPV capabilities of the newer digital autopilots- but most of the transports I've flown didn't have those capabilities either- so I'll probably not miss them. And then there's the old decision making theory that while flying myself around single pilot- I probably shouldn't put myself into a position to need those capabilities. ;-) Robert S. Randazzo N414C From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Addington Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:21 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Robert, My 500A was the one that S-Tec used for the STC after I hounded them for three years. I had them install the 65 with all the whistles and bells and I also was used to big iron where there was a warning when it disconnected. That has been my only disappointment in that autopilot. I looked at my map that was on a clip board and accidently laid it on the disconnect switch. We were at night IFR and it started to drift off before I caught what had happened. I have thought about putting a small cup under the switch so that would not happen again but have not done it yet because I have not been able to fly much in the last two years. A friend of mine drew out the plans for putting trim and disconnect switches on the right side but have not done that either. It has been a really good autopilot. Jim Addington 500A N444BD _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S. Randazzo Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 12:15 AM Subject: Commander-List: S-Tec A/P Disconnect Warning? Commanders- Anyone here have much experience with the S-Tec System 65 autopilot? At issue is whether or not there should be an aural warning when pressing the A/P disconnect switch. I'm spoiled by all the transport time where the A/P disconnect is announced at about 5,000db... just to make sure you notice it. I find it strange that when I hit the disco button on this autopilot- it quietly releases the airplane without so much as a peep. What if it disconnects in flight on it's own for some reason? EA301? Robert S. 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