Commander-List Digest Archive

Sat 05/09/09


Total Messages Posted: 7



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:35 AM - Re: Re: It is time... (Steve W)
     2. 04:40 AM - Re: Re: It is time... (Steve W)
     3. 05:13 AM - Re: Re: It is time... (nico css)
     4. 09:49 AM - Re: Re: It is time... (Steve W)
     5. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: It is time... (Robert Feldtman)
     6. 02:09 PM - Re: Re: It is time... (L D GIROD)
     7. 02:31 PM - Re: N-152K (Cate Chagnot)
 
 
 


Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:35:23 AM PST US
    From: "Steve W" <steve2@sover.net>
    Subject: Re: It is time...
    Yes. We were set up as a Republic and should remain so. That's why it was so odd during the last administration to watch so called conservatives cheerleading the seizing and consolidation of Exexcutive and Federal power. It's a great idea if its your guy and in the name of keeping you safe, but no one seemed to consider it might not always be their guy and the rules were set up with the bigger picture in mind. Lower the bar for a President you like, allow him to bypass rule of law and courts, and then panic because the next one you don't like may inherit those similar powers. I don't know how one avoids having to read the Constitution and determining how to apply the thing. It took over a hundred years for folks to wonder if all men created equal meant women too. Two hundred years later some folks figured they couldn't have meant black people also? Naw...... At the time this looked like a new and activist interpretation to many, and maybe it was. Real freedom isn't just for things I like and approve of. Keep and bear arms. I'm in a bad mood with an itchy trigger finger and my neighbors playing that vapid 'new' country music again. Even with slugs, the pump 20 isn't a big enough threat. Can I keep a 105mm trained on his house 24 hours a day? Sooner or later Milt is going to form his Commander list posse and come to get me. If the land mines don't get him first, I've been mixing up home-made anthrax, with scrapings from glowing watches and baby poop. Sure to stop him dead in his tracks...... Is that protected? Are Federal drug laws ok? What do I care if someone is growing weed in their outhouse. It is very reassuring to hear of the exodus to Texas. God knows they've got the room. But what are you going to do about Austin? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Feldtman To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: It is time... that's why the founders set up a Republic - each state has it's own autonomy - except what the constitution says in clear black and white. it is NOT a living document for interpretation. I suggest we all re-read that document. I've seen more "out of state" license plates here in Texas in the last three months than I have ever seen before. Has the exodus quietly begun? The Republic of Texas won't have GA user fees! And I can go back to carrying heat in the plane. bobf On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Steve W <steve2@sover.net> wrote: I wasn't going to spoil it for David. He's a good sport. And Nico had written a very well thought out post. Even Milt wrote a smart and well balanced one. (Until the other one about the Militia guys maybe not being wackos. They are wackos but should be left alone. And New England and California? That's like mixing a New England version of the Waltons with Baywatch.) That piece was written to inflame passion, anger and fear; and the real author knew exactly what buttons to push to do so. There is such crazy assed shit being said on all sides, but hardly anyone seems to care if what is said is true or not. I remember pissing off a bunch of the far left about ten years ago over an environmental and farming issue when I had to learn the facts instead of parroting back the crap that was then coming through as faxes. I learned people were less interested in the truth than reinforcing something they already chose to believe. So a work program becomes evidence of an evil plot designed to create an army of Obama supporters who will seize power and make you honkies listen to better music and eat salad. It so often comes down to the manipulation and reinforcement of fear. Fear of loss, fear for safety, and the constant warnings now from so many sources pointing out new and dire threats. (I wonder, are pilots as a class more vigilant to identification of threat.) I'm not going to sacrifice everything that's best about us, pervert my values and live in perpetual fear because we're threatened. To hell with political parties and the moronic sides they make people take. But if a State wants to try some really, really stupid ideas and opt out of Federal laws and programs, I think they should be allowed to. Like now, if the citizens of Texas think guns are really too hard to get and want to opt out of Federal laws designed to keep guns from bad guys, and automatic weapons off the streets... Go for it. Give it a wack and see if if you like it. I think much of the time it is less right and left than it is rural sensibilities against city requirements. When we were just frontier and people were spread out common sense and little interference makes more sense. With you people breeding like rabbits, too much of the population is packed together like sardines. I'm not so sure rural rules would work in cities, and I wouldn't want to tell those folks what's best for them. Likewise out in the sticks, I like being left alone. I'll quit now. Been working on a major project way too many weeks in a row. A little punchy. (Note: the views above definately do not represent those of the swell little company I work for.) Please resume your regular programming. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com> To: <commander-list@matronics.com> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 11:13 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: It is time... <john@vormbaum.com> As much as I loved reading this, alas, it wasn't written by Kaiser. In fact, nobody knows who wrote it except for the signature "TPS". Bummer: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/proportions.asp -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Owens Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 10:48 AM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: It is time... --> <dowens@aerialviewpoint.com> "My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it." - Barack Obama History Unfolding I am a student of history. Professionally, I have written 15 books on history that have been published in six languages, and I have studied history all my life. I have come to think there is something monumentally large afoot, and I do not believe it is simply a banking crisis, or a mortgage crisis, or a credit crisis. Yes these exist, but they are merely single facets on a very large gemstone that is only now coming into a sharper focus. Something of historic proportions is happening. I can sense it because I know how it feels, smells, what it looks like, and how people react to it.. Yes, a perfect storm may be brewing, but there is something happening within our country that has been evolving for about ten to fifteen years. The pace has dramatically quickened in the past two. We demand and then codify into law the requirement that our banks make massive loans to people we know they can never pay back? Why? (JCS: Re above and below, I say in order to severlywound our country and our economy, and reduce our will to resist.) We learned just days ago that the Federal Reserve, which has little or no real oversight by anyone, has "loaned" two trillion dollars (that is $2,000,000,000,000) over the past few months, but will not tell us to whom or why or disclose the terms. That is our money. Yours and mine. And that is three times the $700 billion we all argued about so strenuously just this past September. Who has this money? Why do they have it? Why are the terms unavailable to us? Who asked for it? Who authorized it? I thought this was a government of "we the people," who loaned our powers to our elected leaders. Apparently not. We have spent two or more decades intentionally de-industrializing our economy. Why? We have intentionally dumbed down our schools, ignored our history, and no longer teach our founding documents, why we are exceptional, and why we are worth preserving. Students by and large cannot write, think critically, read, or articulate. Parents are not revolting, teachers are not picketing, school boards continue to back mediocrity. Why? We have now established the precedent of protesting every close election (violently in California over a proposition that is so controversial that it simply wants marriage to remain defined as between one man and one woman. Did you ever think such a thing possible just a decade ago?) We have corrupted our sacred political process by allowing unelected judges to write laws that radically change our way of life, and then mainstream Marxist groups like ACORN and others to turn our voting system into a banana republic. To what purpose? Now our mortgage industry is collapsing, housing prices are in free fall, major industries are failing, our banking system is on the verge of collapse, social security is nearly bankrupt, as is medicare and our entire government. Our education system is worse than a joke (I teach college and I know precisely what I am talking about) - the list is staggering in its length, breadth, and depth.. It is potentially 1929 x ten... And we are at war with an enemy we cannot even name for fear of offending people of the same religion, who, in turn, cannot wait to slit the throats of your children if they have the opportunity to do so. And finally, we have elected a man that no one really knows anything about, who has never run so much as a Dairy Queen, let alone a town as big asWasilla, Alaska . All of his associations and alliances are with real radicals in their chosen fields of employment, and everything we learn about him, drip by drip, is unsettling if not downright scary (Surely you have heard him speak about his idea to create and fund a mandatory civilian defense force stronger than our military for use inside our borders? No? Oh, of course. The media would never play that for you over and over and then demand he answer it. Sarah Palin's pregnant daughter and $150,000 wardrobe are more important.) Mr. Obama's winning platform can be boiled down to one word: Change. Why? I have never been so afraid for my country and for my children as I am now. This man campaigned on bringing people together, something he has never, ever done in his professional life. In my assessment, Obama will divide us along philosophical lines, push us apart, and then try to realign the pieces into a new and different power structure. Change is indeed coming. And when it comes, you will never see the same nation again. And that is only the beginning.. As a serious student of history, I thought I would never come to experience what the ordinary, moral German must have felt in the mid-1930s. In those times, the "savior" was a former smooth-talking rabble-rouser from the streets, about whom the average German knew next to nothing. What they should have known was that he was associated with groups that shouted, shoved, and pushed around people with whom they disagreed; he edged his way onto the political stage through great oratory. Conservative "losers" read it right now. And there were the promises. Economic times were tough, people were losing jobs, and he was a great speaker. And he smiled and frowned and waved a lot. And people, even newspapers, were afraid to speak out for fear that his "brown shirts" would bully and beat them into submission. Which they did - regularly. And then, he was duly elected to office, while a full-throttled economic crisis bloomed at hand - the Great Depression. Slowly, but surely he seized the controls of government power, person by person, department by department, bureaucracy by bureaucracy. The children of German citizens were at first, encouraged to join a Youth Movement in his name where they were taught exactly what to think. Later, they were required to do so. No Jews of course, How did he get people on his side? He did it by promising jobs to the jobless, money to the money-less, and rewards for the military-industrial complex. He did it by indoctrinating the children, advocating gun control, health care for all, better wages, better jobs, and promising to re-instill pride once again in the country, across Europe , and across the world. He did it with a compliant media - did you know that? And he did this all in the name of justice and .... . .. change. And the people surely got what they voted for. If you think I am exaggerating, look it up. It's all there in the history books. So read your history books. Many people of conscience objected in 1933 and were shouted down, called names, laughed at, and ridiculed. WhenWinston Churchill pointed out the obvious in the late 1930s while seated in the House of Lords in England (he was not yet Prime Minister), he was booed into his seat and called a crazy troublemaker. He was right, though. And the world came to regret that he was not listened to. Do not forget that Germany was the most educated, the most cultured country in Europe . It was full of music, art, museums, hospitals, laboratories, and universities. And yet, in less than six years (a shorter time span than just two terms of the U. S. presidency) it was rounding up its own citizens, killing others, abrogating its laws, turning children against parents, and neighbors against neighbors.. All with the best of intentions, of course. The road to Hell is paved with them. As a practical thinker, one not overly prone to emotional decisions, I have a choice: I can either believe what the objective pieces of evidence tell me (even if they make me cringe with disgust); I can believe what history is shouting to me from across the chasm of seven decades; or I can hope I am wrong by closing my eyes, having another latte, and ignoring what is transpiring around me.. I choose to believe the evidence. No doubt some people will scoff at me, others laugh, or think I am foolish, naive, or both. To some degree, perhaps I am. But I have never been afraid to look people in the eye and tell them exactly what I believe-and why I believe it. I pray I am wrong. I do not think I am. Perhaps the only hope is our vote in the next elections. David Kaiser Jamestown , Rhode Island United States ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ==========


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:40:31 AM PST US
    From: "Steve W" <steve2@sover.net>
    Subject: Re: It is time...
    Johnboy, this is Pam. Pam, this is Johnboy. ----- Original Message ----- From: "N395V" <Bearcat@bearcataviation.com> Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 10:00 PM Subject: Commander-List: Re: It is time... > <Bearcat@bearcataviation.com> > > >> That's like mixing a New England version of the Waltons with >> Baywatch.) >> > > > I am laughing my ass off. > > Do Not Archive > > -------- > Milt > 2003 F1 Rocket > 2006 Radial Rocket > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243212#243212 > > >


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:13:38 AM PST US
    From: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
    Subject: Re: It is time...
    Come on, Steve. Nobody is going to shoot someone solely because there is a gun in his hand. If there is enough motive and demeanor, a killing is fixed, gun or not. Knowing the other guy might also be packing heat has been proven to be an instant sedative. You would be much more inclined to seek peace with your neighbor through other means, even reasoning with him or getting to like 'new' country music, if you know he has the same hardware that you do. With gun control, you never know what he hides and what he is capable of doing knowing all you have is your cell phone with 911 on your speed dial. _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 4:34 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: It is time... Yes. We were set up as a Republic and should remain so. That's why it was so odd during the last administration to watch so called conservatives cheerleading the seizing and consolidation of Exexcutive and Federal power. It's a great idea if its your guy and in the name of keeping you safe, but no one seemed to consider it might not always be their guy and the rules were set up with the bigger picture in mind. Lower the bar for a President you like, allow him to bypass rule of law and courts, and then panic because the next one you don't like may inherit those similar powers. I don't know how one avoids having to read the Constitution and determining how to apply the thing. It took over a hundred years for folks to wonder if all men created equal meant women too. Two hundred years later some folks figured they couldn't have meant black people also? Naw...... At the time this looked like a new and activist interpretation to many, and maybe it was. Real freedom isn't just for things I like and approve of. Keep and bear arms. I'm in a bad mood with an itchy trigger finger and my neighbors playing that vapid 'new' country music again. Even with slugs, the pump 20 isn't a big enough threat. Can I keep a 105mm trained on his house 24 hours a day? Sooner or later Milt is going to form his Commander list posse and come to get me. If the land mines don't get him first, I've been mixing up home-made anthrax, with scrapings from glowing watches and baby poop. Sure to stop him dead in his tracks...... Is that protected? Are Federal drug laws ok? What do I care if someone is growing weed in their outhouse. It is very reassuring to hear of the exodus to Texas. God knows they've got the room. But what are you going to do about Austin? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Feldtman <mailto:bobf@feldtman.com> Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: It is time... that's why the founders set up a Republic - each state has it's own autonomy - except what the constitution says in clear black and white. it is NOT a living document for interpretation. I suggest we all re-read that document. I've seen more "out of state" license plates here in Texas in the last three months than I have ever seen before. Has the exodus quietly begun? The Republic of Texas won't have GA user fees! And I can go back to carrying heat in the plane. bobf On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Steve W <steve2@sover.net> wrote: I wasn't going to spoil it for David. He's a good sport. And Nico had written a very well thought out post. Even Milt wrote a smart and well balanced one. (Until the other one about the Militia guys maybe not being wackos. They are wackos but should be left alone. And New England and California? That's like mixing a New England version of the Waltons with Baywatch.) That piece was written to inflame passion, anger and fear; and the real author knew exactly what buttons to push to do so. There is such crazy assed shit being said on all sides, but hardly anyone seems to care if what is said is true or not. I remember pissing off a bunch of the far left about ten years ago over an environmental and farming issue when I had to learn the facts instead of parroting back the crap that was then coming through as faxes. I learned people were less interested in the truth than reinforcing something they already chose to believe. So a work program becomes evidence of an evil plot designed to create an army of Obama supporters who will seize power and make you honkies listen to better music and eat salad. It so often comes down to the manipulation and reinforcement of fear. Fear of loss, fear for safety, and the constant warnings now from so many sources pointing out new and dire threats. (I wonder, are pilots as a class more vigilant to identification of threat.) I'm not going to sacrifice everything that's best about us, pervert my values and live in perpetual fear because we're threatened. To hell with political parties and the moronic sides they make people take. But if a State wants to try some really, really stupid ideas and opt out of Federal laws and programs, I think they should be allowed to. Like now, if the citizens of Texas think guns are really too hard to get and want to opt out of Federal laws designed to keep guns from bad guys, and automatic weapons off the streets... Go for it. Give it a wack and see if if you like it. I think much of the time it is less right and left than it is rural sensibilities against city requirements. When we were just frontier and people were spread out common sense and little interference makes more sense. With you people breeding like rabbits, too much of the population is packed together like sardines. I'm not so sure rural rules would work in cities, and I wouldn't want to tell those folks what's best for them. Likewise out in the sticks, I like being left alone. I'll quit now. Been working on a major project way too many weeks in a row. A little punchy. (Note: the views above definately do not represent those of the swell little company I work for.) Please resume your regular programming. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 11:13 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: It is time... As much as I loved reading this, alas, it wasn't written by Kaiser. In fact, nobody knows who wrote it except for the signature "TPS". Bummer: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/proportions.asp -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Owens Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 10:48 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: It is time... --> <dowens@aerialviewpoint.com> "My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it." - Barack Obama History Unfolding I am a student of history. Professionally, I have written 15 books on history that have been published in six languages, and I have studied history all my life. I have come to think there is something monumentally large afoot, and I do not believe it is simply a banking crisis, or a mortgage crisis, or a credit crisis. Yes these exist, but they are merely single facets on a very large gemstone that is only now coming into a sharper focus. Something of historic proportions is happening. I can sense it because I know how it feels, smells, what it looks like, and how people react to it.. Yes, a perfect storm may be brewing, but there is something happening within our country that has been evolving for about ten to fifteen years. The pace has dramatically quickened in the past two. We demand and then codify into law the requirement that our banks make massive loans to people we know they can never pay back? Why? (JCS: Re above and below, I say in order to severlywound our country and our economy, and reduce our will to resist.) We learned just days ago that the Federal Reserve, which has little or no real oversight by anyone, has "loaned" two trillion dollars (that is $2,000,000,000,000) over the past few months, but will not tell us to whom or why or disclose the terms. That is our money. Yours and mine. And that is three times the $700 billion we all argued about so strenuously just this past September. Who has this money? Why do they have it? Why are the terms unavailable to us? Who asked for it? Who authorized it? I thought this was a government of "we the people," who loaned our powers to our elected leaders. Apparently not. We have spent two or more decades intentionally de-industrializing our economy. Why? We have intentionally dumbed down our schools, ignored our history, and no longer teach our founding documents, why we are exceptional, and why we are worth preserving. Students by and large cannot write, think critically, read, or articulate. Parents are not revolting, teachers are not picketing, school boards continue to back mediocrity. Why? We have now established the precedent of protesting every close election (violently in California over a proposition that is so controversial that it simply wants marriage to remain defined as between one man and one woman. Did you ever think such a thing possible just a decade ago?) We have corrupted our sacred political process by allowing unelected judges to write laws that radically change our way of life, and then mainstream Marxist groups like ACORN and others to turn our voting system into a banana republic. To what purpose? Now our mortgage industry is collapsing, housing prices are in free fall, major industries are failing, our banking system is on the verge of collapse, social security is nearly bankrupt, as is medicare and our entire government. Our education system is worse than a joke (I teach college and I know precisely what I am talking about) - the list is staggering in its length, breadth, and depth.. It is potentially 1929 x ten... And we are at war with an enemy we cannot even name for fear of offending people of the same religion, who, in turn, cannot wait to slit the throats of your children if they have the opportunity to do so. And finally, we have elected a man that no one really knows anything about, who has never run so much as a Dairy Queen, let alone a town as big asWasilla, Alaska . All of his associations and alliances are with real radicals in their chosen fields of employment, and everything we learn about him, drip by drip, is unsettling if not downright scary (Surely you have heard him speak about his idea to create and fund a mandatory civilian defense force stronger than our military for use inside our borders? No? Oh, of course. The media would never play that for you over and over and then demand he answer it. Sarah Palin's pregnant daughter and $150,000 wardrobe are more important.) Mr. Obama's winning platform can be boiled down to one word: Change. Why? I have never been so afraid for my country and for my children as I am now. This man campaigned on bringing people together, something he has never, ever done in his professional life. In my assessment, Obama will divide us along philosophical lines, push us apart, and then try to realign the pieces into a new and different power structure. Change is indeed coming. And when it comes, you will never see the same nation again. And that is only the beginning.. As a serious student of history, I thought I would never come to experience what the ordinary, moral German must have felt in the mid-1930s. In those times, the "savior" was a former smooth-talking rabble-rouser from the streets, about whom the average German knew next to nothing. What they should have known was that he was associated with groups that shouted, shoved, and pushed around people with whom they disagreed; he edged his way onto the political stage through great oratory. Conservative "losers" read it right now. And there were the promises. Economic times were tough, people were losing jobs, and he was a great speaker. And he smiled and frowned and waved a lot. And people, even newspapers, were afraid to speak out for fear that his "brown shirts" would bully and beat them into submission. Which they did - regularly. And then, he was duly elected to office, while a full-throttled economic crisis bloomed at hand - the Great Depression. Slowly, but surely he seized the controls of government power, person by person, department by department, bureaucracy by bureaucracy. The children of German citizens were at first, encouraged to join a Youth Movement in his name where they were taught exactly what to think. Later, they were required to do so. No Jews of course, How did he get people on his side? He did it by promising jobs to the jobless, money to the money-less, and rewards for the military-industrial complex. He did it by indoctrinating the children, advocating gun control, health care for all, better wages, better jobs, and promising to re-instill pride once again in the country, across Europe , and across the world. He did it with a compliant media - did you know that? And he did this all in the name of justice and .... . .. change. And the people surely got what they voted for. If you think I am exaggerating, look it up. It's all there in the history books. So read your history books. Many people of conscience objected in 1933 and were shouted down, called names, laughed at, and ridiculed. WhenWinston Churchill pointed out the obvious in the late 1930s while seated in the House of Lords in England (he was not yet Prime Minister), he was booed into his seat and called a crazy troublemaker. He was right, though. And the world came to regret that he was not listened to. Do not forget that Germany was the most educated, the most cultured country in Europe . It was full of music, art, museums, hospitals, laboratories, and universities. And yet, in less than six years (a shorter time span than just two terms of the U. S. presidency) it was rounding up its own citizens, killing others, abrogating its laws, turning children against parents, and neighbors against neighbors.. All with the best of intentions, of course. The road to Hell is paved with them. As a practical thinker, one not overly prone to emotional decisions, I have a choice: I can either believe what the objective pieces of evidence tell me (even if they make me cringe with disgust); I can believe what history is shouting to me from across the chasm of seven decades; or I can hope I am wrong by closing my eyes, having another latte, and ignoring what is transpiring around me.. I choose to believe the evidence. No doubt some people will scoff at me, others laugh, or think I am foolish, naive, or both. To some degree, perhaps I am. But I have never been afraid to look people in the eye and tell them exactly what I believe-and why I believe it. I pray I am wrong. I do not think I am. Perhaps the only hope is our vote in the next elections. David Kaiser Jamestown , Rhode Island United States ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:49:02 AM PST US
    From: "Steve W" <steve2@sover.net>
    Subject: Re: It is time...
    Agreed in principle Nico. I've approved of family packing when appropriate, and I know of a couple instances where friends and family both have only had to display some heat to turn away bad people intending to do harm. It is appropriate and constitutionally protected to be able to reasonably defend oneself. I do think there is a problem inherent in the advance of the technology of 'arms'. When the framers wrote our founding documents, one man with a muzzle loading musket would have a difficult time killing two people. But now it is possible to quickly and efficiently kill lots more people faster. Virginia Tech was 30 something people? Binghamton was 13, Alabama was 10 or eleven? This wsn't done with a Peacemaker. Hundreds of rounds can be fired in minutes. We're now seeing mass killings as a regular occurrence and it isn't even registering, or if it is at all its seen as further evidence we need easier access to more lethal weapons. The point Nico, is that while I am guaranteed the right to arms, does this right extend without limit? Its just odd how people have been completely inflexible and absolutist when it comes to some constitutional rights, yet perfectly willing to give up on others in the name of being kept safe from terrorist bad guys. Its that fear and safety thing again, maybe. Having easy and unlimited access to any and all weapons make one 'feel' safer, while at the same time on a macrocosmic scale increasing the likelyhood of being killed by them. You could perform a robbery or murder with a 38 special, or maybe defend yourself, but we're seeing something different happening now. I don't have answers, maybe only questions. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 8:13 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: It is time... Come on, Steve. Nobody is going to shoot someone solely because there is a gun in his hand. If there is enough motive and demeanor, a killing is fixed, gun or not. Knowing the other guy might also be packing heat has been proven to be an instant sedative. You would be much more inclined to seek peace with your neighbor through other means, even reasoning with him or getting to like 'new' country music, if you know he has the same hardware that you do. With gun control, you never know what he hides and what he is capable of doing knowing all you have is your cell phone with 911 on your speed dial. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 4:34 AM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: It is time... Yes. We were set up as a Republic and should remain so. That's why it was so odd during the last administration to watch so called conservatives cheerleading the seizing and consolidation of Exexcutive and Federal power. It's a great idea if its your guy and in the name of keeping you safe, but no one seemed to consider it might not always be their guy and the rules were set up with the bigger picture in mind. Lower the bar for a President you like, allow him to bypass rule of law and courts, and then panic because the next one you don't like may inherit those similar powers. I don't know how one avoids having to read the Constitution and determining how to apply the thing. It took over a hundred years for folks to wonder if all men created equal meant women too. Two hundred years later some folks figured they couldn't have meant black people also? Naw...... At the time this looked like a new and activist interpretation to many, and maybe it was. Real freedom isn't just for things I like and approve of. Keep and bear arms. I'm in a bad mood with an itchy trigger finger and my neighbors playing that vapid 'new' country music again. Even with slugs, the pump 20 isn't a big enough threat. Can I keep a 105mm trained on his house 24 hours a day? Sooner or later Milt is going to form his Commander list posse and come to get me. If the land mines don't get him first, I've been mixing up home-made anthrax, with scrapings from glowing watches and baby poop. Sure to stop him dead in his tracks...... Is that protected? Are Federal drug laws ok? What do I care if someone is growing weed in their outhouse. It is very reassuring to hear of the exodus to Texas. God knows they've got the room. But what are you going to do about Austin? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Feldtman To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: It is time... that's why the founders set up a Republic - each state has it's own autonomy - except what the constitution says in clear black and white. it is NOT a living document for interpretation. I suggest we all re-read that document. I've seen more "out of state" license plates here in Texas in the last three months than I have ever seen before. Has the exodus quietly begun? The Republic of Texas won't have GA user fees! And I can go back to carrying heat in the plane. bobf On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Steve W <steve2@sover.net> wrote: I wasn't going to spoil it for David. He's a good sport. And Nico had written a very well thought out post. Even Milt wrote a smart and well balanced one. (Until the other one about the Militia guys maybe not being wackos. They are wackos but should be left alone. And New England and California? That's like mixing a New England version of the Waltons with Baywatch.) That piece was written to inflame passion, anger and fear; and the real author knew exactly what buttons to push to do so. There is such crazy assed shit being said on all sides, but hardly anyone seems to care if what is said is true or not. I remember pissing off a bunch of the far left about ten years ago over an environmental and farming issue when I had to learn the facts instead of parroting back the crap that was then coming through as faxes. I learned people were less interested in the truth than reinforcing something they already chose to believe. So a work program becomes evidence of an evil plot designed to create an army of Obama supporters who will seize power and make you honkies listen to better music and eat salad. It so often comes down to the manipulation and reinforcement of fear. Fear of loss, fear for safety, and the constant warnings now from so many sources pointing out new and dire threats. (I wonder, are pilots as a class more vigilant to identification of threat.) I'm not going to sacrifice everything that's best about us, pervert my values and live in perpetual fear because we're threatened. To hell with political parties and the moronic sides they make people take. But if a State wants to try some really, really stupid ideas and opt out of Federal laws and programs, I think they should be allowed to. Like now, if the citizens of Texas think guns are really too hard to get and want to opt out of Federal laws designed to keep guns from bad guys, and automatic weapons off the streets... Go for it. Give it a wack and see if if you like it. I think much of the time it is less right and left than it is rural sensibilities against city requirements. When we were just frontier and people were spread out common sense and little interference makes more sense. With you people breeding like rabbits, too much of the population is packed together like sardines. I'm not so sure rural rules would work in cities, and I wouldn't want to tell those folks what's best for them. Likewise out in the sticks, I like being left alone. I'll quit now. Been working on a major project way too many weeks in a row. A little punchy. (Note: the views above definately do not represent those of the swell little company I work for.) Please resume your regular programming. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com> To: <commander-list@matronics.com> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 11:13 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: It is time... <john@vormbaum.com> As much as I loved reading this, alas, it wasn't written by Kaiser. In fact, nobody knows who wrote it except for the signature "TPS". Bummer: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/proportions.asp -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Owens Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 10:48 AM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: It is time... --> <dowens@aerialviewpoint.com> "My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it." - Barack Obama History Unfolding I am a student of history. Professionally, I have written 15 books on history that have been published in six languages, and I have studied history all my life. I have come to think there is something monumentally large afoot, and I do not believe it is simply a banking crisis, or a mortgage crisis, or a credit crisis. Yes these exist, but they are merely single facets on a very large gemstone that is only now coming into a sharper focus. Something of historic proportions is happening. I can sense it because I know how it feels, smells, what it looks like, and how people react to it.. Yes, a perfect storm may be brewing, but there is something happening within our country that has been evolving for about ten to fifteen years. The pace has dramatically quickened in the past two. We demand and then codify into law the requirement that our banks make massive loans to people we know they can never pay back? Why? (JCS: Re above and below, I say in order to severlywound our country and our economy, and reduce our will to resist.) We learned just days ago that the Federal Reserve, which has little or no real oversight by anyone, has "loaned" two trillion dollars (that is $2,000,000,000,000) over the past few months, but will not tell us to whom or why or disclose the terms. That is our money. Yours and mine. And that is three times the $700 billion we all argued about so strenuously just this past September. Who has this money? Why do they have it? Why are the terms unavailable to us? Who asked for it? Who authorized it? I thought this was a government of "we the people," who loaned our powers to our elected leaders. Apparently not. We have spent two or more decades intentionally de-industrializing our economy. Why? We have intentionally dumbed down our schools, ignored our history, and no longer teach our founding documents, why we are exceptional, and why we are worth preserving. Students by and large cannot write, think critically, read, or articulate. Parents are not revolting, teachers are not picketing, school boards continue to back mediocrity. Why? We have now established the precedent of protesting every close election (violently in California over a proposition that is so controversial that it simply wants marriage to remain defined as between one man and one woman. Did you ever think such a thing possible just a decade ago?) We have corrupted our sacred political process by allowing unelected judges to write laws that radically change our way of life, and then mainstream Marxist groups like ACORN and others to turn our voting system into a banana republic. To what purpose? Now our mortgage industry is collapsing, housing prices are in free fall, major industries are failing, our banking system is on the verge of collapse, social security is nearly bankrupt, as is medicare and our entire government. Our education system is worse than a joke (I teach college and I know precisely what I am talking about) - the list is staggering in its length, breadth, and depth.. It is potentially 1929 x ten... And we are at war with an enemy we cannot even name for fear of offending people of the same religion, who, in turn, cannot wait to slit the throats of your children if they have the opportunity to do so. And finally, we have elected a man that no one really knows anything about, who has never run so much as a Dairy Queen, let alone a town as big asWasilla, Alaska . All of his associations and alliances are with real radicals in their chosen fields of employment, and everything we learn about him, drip by drip, is unsettling if not downright scary (Surely you have heard him speak about his idea to create and fund a mandatory civilian defense force stronger than our military for use inside our borders? No? Oh, of course. The media would never play that for you over and over and then demand he answer it. Sarah Palin's pregnant daughter and $150,000 wardrobe are more important.) Mr. Obama's winning platform can be boiled down to one word: Change. Why? I have never been so afraid for my country and for my children as I am now. This man campaigned on bringing people together, something he has never, ever done in his professional life. In my assessment, Obama will divide us along philosophical lines, push us apart, and then try to realign the pieces into a new and different power structure. Change is indeed coming. And when it comes, you will never see the same nation again. And that is only the beginning.. As a serious student of history, I thought I would never come to experience what the ordinary, moral German must have felt in the mid-1930s. In those times, the "savior" was a former smooth-talking rabble-rouser from the streets, about whom the average German knew next to nothing. What they should have known was that he was associated with groups that shouted, shoved, and pushed around people with whom they disagreed; he edged his way onto the political stage through great oratory. Conservative "losers" read it right now. And there were the promises. Economic times were tough, people were losing jobs, and he was a great speaker. And he smiled and frowned and waved a lot. And people, even newspapers, were afraid to speak out for fear that his "brown shirts" would bully and beat them into submission. Which they did - regularly. And then, he was duly elected to office, while a full-throttled economic crisis bloomed at hand - the Great Depression. Slowly, but surely he seized the controls of government power, person by person, department by department, bureaucracy by bureaucracy. The children of German citizens were at first, encouraged to join a Youth Movement in his name where they were taught exactly what to think. Later, they were required to do so. No Jews of course, How did he get people on his side? He did it by promising jobs to the jobless, money to the money-less, and rewards for the military-industrial complex. He did it by indoctrinating the children, advocating gun control, health care for all, better wages, better jobs, and promising to re-instill pride once again in the country, across Europe , and across the world. He did it with a compliant media - did you know that? And he did this all in the name of justice and .... . .. change. And the people surely got what they voted for. If you think I am exaggerating, look it up. It's all there in the history books. So read your history books. Many people of conscience objected in 1933 and were shouted down, called names, laughed at, and ridiculed. WhenWinston Churchill pointed out the obvious in the late 1930s while seated in the House of Lords in England (he was not yet Prime Minister), he was booed into his seat and called a crazy troublemaker. He was right, though. And the world came to regret that he was not listened to. Do not forget that Germany was the most educated, the most cultured country in Europe . It was full of music, art, museums, hospitals, laboratories, and universities. And yet, in less than six years (a shorter time span than just two terms of the U. S. presidency) it was rounding up its own citizens, killing others, abrogating its laws, turning children against parents, and neighbors against neighbors.. All with the best of intentions, of course. The road to Hell is paved with them. As a practical thinker, one not overly prone to emotional decisions, I have a choice: I can either believe what the objective pieces of evidence tell me (even if they make me cringe with disgust); I can believe what history is shouting to me from across the chasm of seven decades; or I can hope I am wrong by closing my eyes, having another latte, and ignoring what is transpiring around me.. I choose to believe the evidence. No doubt some people will scoff at me, others laugh, or think I am foolish, naive, or both. To some degree, perhaps I am. But I have never been afraid to look people in the eye and tell them exactly what I believe-and why I believe it. I pray I am wrong. I do not think I am. Perhaps the only hope is our vote in the next elections. David Kaiser Jamestown , Rhode Island United States ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:55:24 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: It is time...
    From: Robert Feldtman <bobf@feldtman.com>
    FYI - Texas is in the process of passing a right to carry for concealed handgun license holders to pack heat on campus in Universities (there are some requirements - age etc)........ but it will give pause to a potential university shooter to pull out a weapon - he might get the same treatment as the nut job at the Colorado Springs church who never expected someone (a woman) to charge into the gunfire....... and stop him with well placed shots. bobf On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Steve W <steve2@sover.net> wrote: > Agreed in principle Nico. I've approved of family packing when > appropriate, and I know of a couple instances where friends and family both > have only had to display some heat to turn away bad people intending to do > harm. It is appropriate and constitutionally protected to be able to > reasonably defend oneself. > > I do think there is a problem inherent in the advance of the technology of > 'arms'. When the framers wrote our founding documents, one man with a muzzle > loading musket would have a difficult time killing two people. But now it is > possible to quickly and efficiently kill lots more people faster. Virginia > Tech was 30 something people? Binghamton was 13, Alabama was 10 or eleven? > This wsn't done with a Peacemaker. Hundreds of rounds can be fired in > minutes. We're now seeing mass killings as a regular occurrence and it > isn't even registering, or if it is at all its seen as further evidence we > need easier access to more lethal weapons. > > The point Nico, is that while I am guaranteed the right to arms, does this > right extend without limit? Its just odd how people have been completely > inflexible and absolutist when it comes to some constitutional rights, yet > perfectly willing to give up on others in the name of being kept safe from > terrorist bad guys. Its that fear and safety thing again, maybe. Having easy > and unlimited access to any and all weapons make one 'feel' safer, while at > the same time on a macrocosmic scale increasing the likelyhood of being > killed by them. > > You could perform a robbery or murder with a 38 special, or maybe defend > yourself, but we're seeing something different happening now. I don't have > answers, maybe only questions. > > Steve > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* nico css <nico@cybersuperstore.com> > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Saturday, May 09, 2009 8:13 AM > *Subject:* RE: Commander-List: Re: It is time... > > Come on, Steve. Nobody is going to shoot someone solely because there is a > gun in his hand. If there is enough motive and demeanor, a killing is fixed, > gun or not. Knowing the other guy might also be packing heat has been proven > to be an instant sedative. > > You would be much more inclined to seek peace with your neighbor through > other means, even reasoning with him or getting to like 'new' country > music, if you know he has the same hardware that you do. With gun control, > you never know what he hides and what he is capable of doing knowing all you > have is your cell phone with 911 on your speed dial. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve W > *Sent:* Saturday, May 09, 2009 4:34 AM > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Re: It is time... > > Yes. We were set up as a Republic and should remain so. That's why it was > so odd during the last administration to watch so called conservatives > cheerleading the seizing and consolidation of Exexcutive and Federal power. > It's a great idea if its your guy and in the name of keeping you safe, but > no one seemed to consider it might not always be their guy and the rules > were set up with the bigger picture in mind. Lower the bar for a President > you like, allow him to bypass rule of law and courts, and then panic because > the next one you don't like may inherit those similar powers. > > I don't know how one avoids having to read the Constitution and determining > how to apply the thing. It took over a hundred years for folks to wonder if > all men created equal meant women too. Two hundred years later some folks > figured they couldn't have meant black people also? Naw...... At the time > this looked like a new and activist interpretation to many, and maybe it > was. Real freedom isn't just for things I like and approve of. > > Keep and bear arms. I'm in a bad mood with an itchy trigger finger and my > neighbors playing that vapid 'new' country music again. Even with slugs, the > pump 20 isn't a big enough threat. Can I keep a 105mm trained on his house > 24 hours a day? > > Sooner or later Milt is going to form his Commander list posse and come to > get me. If the land mines don't get him first, I've been mixing up home-made > anthrax, with scrapings from glowing watches and baby poop. Sure to stop him > dead in his tracks...... Is that protected? > > Are Federal drug laws ok? What do I care if someone is growing weed in > their outhouse. > > It is very reassuring to hear of the exodus to Texas. God knows they've got > the room. But what are you going to do about Austin? > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Robert Feldtman <bobf@feldtman.com> > *To:* commander-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Friday, May 08, 2009 9:12 PM > *Subject:* Re: Commander-List: Re: It is time... > > that's why the founders set up a Republic - each state has it's own > autonomy - except what the constitution says in clear black and white. it is > NOT a living document for interpretation. I suggest we all re-read that > document. > I've seen more "out of state" license plates here in Texas in the last > three months than I have ever seen before. Has the exodus quietly begun? > The Republic of Texas won't have GA user fees! And I can go back to > carrying heat in the plane. > bobf > > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Steve W <steve2@sover.net> wrote: > >> >> I wasn't going to spoil it for David. He's a good sport. And Nico had >> written a very well thought out post. Even Milt wrote a smart and well >> balanced one. (Until the other one about the Militia guys maybe not being >> wackos. They are wackos but should be left alone. And New England and >> California? That's like mixing a New England version of the Waltons with >> Baywatch.) >> >> That piece was written to inflame passion, anger and fear; and the real >> author knew exactly what buttons to push to do so. There is such crazy assed >> shit being said on all sides, but hardly anyone seems to care if what is >> said is true or not. I remember pissing off a bunch of the far left about >> ten years ago over an environmental and farming issue when I had to learn >> the facts instead of parroting back the crap that was then coming through as >> faxes. >> >> I learned people were less interested in the truth than reinforcing >> something they already chose to believe. So a work program becomes evidence >> of an evil plot designed to create an army of Obama supporters who will >> seize power and make you honkies listen to better music and eat salad. >> >> It so often comes down to the manipulation and reinforcement of fear. Fear >> of loss, fear for safety, and the constant warnings now from so many sources >> pointing out new and dire threats. (I wonder, are pilots as a class more >> vigilant to identification of threat.) I'm not going to sacrifice everything >> that's best about us, pervert my values and live in perpetual fear because >> we're threatened. >> >> To hell with political parties and the moronic sides they make people >> take. But if a State wants to try some really, really stupid ideas and opt >> out of Federal laws and programs, I think they should be allowed to. Like >> now, if the citizens of Texas think guns are really too hard to get and want >> to opt out of Federal laws designed to keep guns from bad guys, and >> automatic weapons off the streets... Go for it. Give it a wack and see if if >> you like it. >> >> I think much of the time it is less right and left than it is rural >> sensibilities against city requirements. When we were just frontier and >> people were spread out common sense and little interference makes more >> sense. With you people breeding like rabbits, too much of the population is >> packed together like sardines. I'm not so sure rural rules would work in >> cities, and I wouldn't want to tell those folks what's best for them. >> Likewise out in the sticks, I like being left alone. >> >> I'll quit now. Been working on a major project way too many weeks in a >> row. A little punchy. >> >> (Note: the views above definately do not represent those of the swell >> little company I work for.) >> >> Please resume your regular programming. >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com> >> To: <commander-list@matronics.com> >> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 11:13 PM >> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: It is time... >> >> >> >>> >>> As much as I loved reading this, alas, it wasn't written by Kaiser. In >>> fact, >>> nobody knows who wrote it except for the signature "TPS". Bummer: >>> http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/proportions.asp >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David >>> Owens >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 10:48 AM >>> To: commander-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: It is time... >>> >>> --> <dowens@aerialviewpoint.com> >>> >>> "My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. >>> I >>> hope you'll join with me as we try to change it." >>> - Barack Obama >>> >>> History Unfolding >>> >>> I am a student of history. Professionally, I have written 15 books on >>> history that have been published in six languages, and I have studied >>> history all my life. I have come to think there is something monumentally >>> large afoot, and I do not believe it is simply a banking crisis, or a >>> mortgage crisis, or a credit crisis. Yes these exist, but they are merely >>> single facets on a very large gemstone that is only now coming into a >>> sharper focus. >>> >>> Something of historic proportions is happening. I can sense it because I >>> know how it feels, smells, what it looks like, and how people react to >>> it.. >>> Yes, a perfect storm may be brewing, but there is something happening >>> within >>> our country that has been evolving for about ten to fifteen years. The >>> pace >>> has dramatically quickened in the past two. >>> >>> We demand and then codify into law the requirement that our banks make >>> massive loans to people we know they can never pay back? Why? >>> >>> >>> >>> (JCS: Re above and below, I say in order to severlywound our country and >>> our economy, and reduce our will to resist.) >>> >>> >>> We learned just days ago that the Federal Reserve, which has little or no >>> real oversight by anyone, has "loaned" two trillion dollars (that is >>> $2,000,000,000,000) over the past few months, but will not tell us to >>> whom >>> or why or disclose the terms. That is our money. Yours and mine. And that >>> is >>> three times the $700 billion we all argued about so strenuously just this >>> past September. Who has this money? Why do they have it? Why are the >>> terms >>> unavailable to us? Who asked for it? Who authorized it? I thought this >>> was a >>> government of "we the people," who loaned our powers to our elected >>> leaders. >>> Apparently not. >>> >>> We have spent two or more decades intentionally de-industrializing our >>> economy. Why? >>> >>> >>> We have intentionally dumbed down our schools, ignored our history, and >>> no >>> longer teach our founding documents, why we are exceptional, and why we >>> are >>> worth preserving. Students by and large cannot write, think critically, >>> read, or articulate. Parents are not revolting, teachers are not >>> picketing, >>> school boards continue to back mediocrity. Why? >>> >>> We have now established the precedent of protesting every close election >>> (violently in California over a proposition that is so controversial that >>> it >>> simply wants marriage to remain defined as between one man and one woman. >>> Did you ever think such a thing possible just a decade ago?) We have >>> corrupted our sacred political process by allowing unelected judges to >>> write >>> laws that radically change our way of life, and then mainstream Marxist >>> groups like ACORN and others to turn our voting system into a banana >>> republic. To what purpose? >>> >>> Now our mortgage industry is collapsing, housing prices are in free fall, >>> major industries are failing, our banking system is on the verge of >>> collapse, social security is nearly bankrupt, as is medicare and our >>> entire >>> government. Our education system is worse than a joke (I teach college >>> and I >>> know precisely what I am talking about) - the list is staggering in its >>> length, breadth, and depth.. It is potentially 1929 x ten... And we are >>> at >>> war with an enemy we cannot even name for fear of offending people of the >>> same religion, who, in turn, cannot wait to slit the throats of your >>> children if they have the opportunity to do so. >>> >>> And finally, we have elected a man that no one really knows anything >>> about, >>> who has never run so much as a Dairy Queen, let alone a town as big >>> asWasilla, Alaska . All of his associations and alliances are with real >>> radicals in their chosen fields of employment, and everything we learn >>> about >>> him, drip by drip, is unsettling if not downright scary (Surely you have >>> heard him speak about his idea to create and fund a mandatory civilian >>> defense force stronger than our military for use inside our borders? No? >>> Oh, >>> of course. The media would never play that for you over and over and then >>> demand he answer it. Sarah Palin's pregnant daughter and $150,000 >>> wardrobe >>> are more important.) >>> >>> Mr. Obama's winning platform can be boiled down to one word: Change. Why? >>> >>> I have never been so afraid for my country and for my children as I am >>> now. >>> >>> This man campaigned on bringing people together, something he has never, >>> ever done in his professional life. In my assessment, Obama will divide >>> us >>> along philosophical lines, push us apart, and then try to realign the >>> pieces >>> into a new and different power structure. Change is indeed coming. And >>> when >>> it comes, you will never see the same nation again. >>> >>> And that is only the beginning.. >>> >>> As a serious student of history, I thought I would never come to >>> experience >>> what the ordinary, moral German must have felt in the mid-1930s. In those >>> times, the "savior" was a former smooth-talking rabble-rouser from the >>> streets, about whom the average German knew next to nothing. What they >>> should have known was that he was associated with groups that shouted, >>> shoved, and pushed around people with whom they disagreed; he edged his >>> way >>> onto the political stage through great oratory. Conservative "losers" >>> read >>> it right now. >>> >>> And there were the promises. Economic times were tough, people were >>> losing >>> jobs, and he was a great speaker. And he smiled and frowned and waved a >>> lot. >>> And people, even newspapers, were afraid to speak out for fear that his >>> "brown shirts" would bully and beat them into submission. Which they did >>> - >>> regularly. And then, he was duly elected to office, while a >>> full-throttled >>> economic crisis bloomed at hand - the Great Depression. Slowly, but >>> surely >>> he seized the controls of government power, person by person, department >>> by >>> department, bureaucracy by bureaucracy. The children of German citizens >>> were >>> at first, encouraged to join a Youth Movement in his name where they were >>> taught exactly what to think. Later, they were required to do so. No Jews >>> of >>> course, >>> >>> >>> >>> How did he get people on his side? He did it by promising jobs to the >>> jobless, money to the money-less, and rewards for the military-industrial >>> complex. He did it by indoctrinating the children, advocating gun >>> control, >>> health care for all, better wages, better jobs, and promising to >>> re-instill >>> pride once again in the country, across Europe , and across the world. He >>> did it with a compliant media - did you know that? And he did this all in >>> the name of justice and .... . .. change. And the people surely got what >>> they voted for. >>> >>> If you think I am exaggerating, look it up. It's all there in the history >>> books. >>> >>> So read your history books. Many people of conscience objected in 1933 >>> and >>> were shouted down, called names, laughed at, and ridiculed. WhenWinston >>> Churchill pointed out the obvious in the late 1930s while seated in the >>> House of Lords in England (he was not yet Prime Minister), he was booed >>> into >>> his seat and called a crazy troublemaker. He was right, though. And the >>> world came to regret that he was not listened to. >>> >>> Do not forget that Germany was the most educated, the most cultured >>> country >>> in Europe . It was full of music, art, museums, hospitals, laboratories, >>> and >>> universities. And yet, in less than six years (a shorter time span than >>> just >>> two terms of the U. S. presidency) it was rounding up its own citizens, >>> killing others, abrogating its laws, turning children against parents, >>> and >>> neighbors against neighbors.. All with the best of intentions, of course. >>> The road to Hell is paved with them. >>> >>> As a practical thinker, one not overly prone to emotional decisions, I >>> have >>> a choice: I can either believe what the objective pieces of evidence tell >>> me >>> (even if they make me cringe with disgust); I can believe what history is >>> shouting to me from across the chasm of seven decades; or I can hope I am >>> wrong by closing my eyes, having another latte, and ignoring what is >>> transpiring around me.. >>> >>> I choose to believe the evidence. No doubt some people will scoff at me, >>> others laugh, or think I am foolish, naive, or both. To some degree, >>> perhaps >>> I am. But I have never been afraid to look people in the eye and tell >>> them >>> exactly what I believe-and why I believe it. >>> >>> I pray I am wrong. I do not think I am. Perhaps the only hope is our vote >>> in >>> the next elections. >>> >>> David Kaiser >>> >>> Jamestown , Rhode Island >>> >>> United States >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> ========== >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > >


    Message 6


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:09:14 PM PST US
    From: "L D GIROD" <dongirod@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: It is time...
    Steve; I have a lot of mixed emotions on this, but, as near as I can figure out, when the Second Amendment was adopted, the citizen could own and carry the same weapons the military could, in like manner, concealed or in plain sight. Maybe that was to protect against all enemies, foreign and domestic. And remember, the oath I took was to "protect and defend the Constitution" period. I believe it is Vermont has the correct interpretation, if you are legal to buy it you are legal to carry it, period. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve W To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 12:47 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: It is time... Agreed in principle Nico. I've approved of family packing when appropriate, and I know of a couple instances where friends and family both have only had to display some heat to turn away bad people intending to do harm. It is appropriate and constitutionally protected to be able to reasonably defend oneself. I do think there is a problem inherent in the advance of the technology of 'arms'. When the framers wrote our founding documents, one man with a muzzle loading musket would have a difficult time killing two people. But now it is possible to quickly and efficiently kill lots more people faster. Virginia Tech was 30 something people? Binghamton was 13, Alabama was 10 or eleven? This wsn't done with a Peacemaker. Hundreds of rounds can be fired in minutes. We're now seeing mass killings as a regular occurrence and it isn't even registering, or if it is at all its seen as further evidence we need easier access to more lethal weapons. The point Nico, is that while I am guaranteed the right to arms, does this right extend without limit? Its just odd how people have been completely inflexible and absolutist when it comes to some constitutional rights, yet perfectly willing to give up on others in the name of being kept safe from terrorist bad guys. Its that fear and safety thing again, maybe. Having easy and unlimited access to any and all weapons make one 'feel' safer, while at the same time on a macrocosmic scale increasing the likelyhood of being killed by them. You could perform a robbery or murder with a 38 special, or maybe defend yourself, but we're seeing something different happening now. I don't have answers, maybe only questions. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 8:13 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: It is time... Come on, Steve. Nobody is going to shoot someone solely because there is a gun in his hand. If there is enough motive and demeanor, a killing is fixed, gun or not. Knowing the other guy might also be packing heat has been proven to be an instant sedative. You would be much more inclined to seek peace with your neighbor through other means, even reasoning with him or getting to like 'new' country music, if you know he has the same hardware that you do. With gun control, you never know what he hides and what he is capable of doing knowing all you have is your cell phone with 911 on your speed dial. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 4:34 AM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: It is time... Yes. We were set up as a Republic and should remain so. That's why it was so odd during the last administration to watch so called conservatives cheerleading the seizing and consolidation of Exexcutive and Federal power. It's a great idea if its your guy and in the name of keeping you safe, but no one seemed to consider it might not always be their guy and the rules were set up with the bigger picture in mind. Lower the bar for a President you like, allow him to bypass rule of law and courts, and then panic because the next one you don't like may inherit those similar powers. I don't know how one avoids having to read the Constitution and determining how to apply the thing. It took over a hundred years for folks to wonder if all men created equal meant women too. Two hundred years later some folks figured they couldn't have meant black people also? Naw...... At the time this looked like a new and activist interpretation to many, and maybe it was. Real freedom isn't just for things I like and approve of. Keep and bear arms. I'm in a bad mood with an itchy trigger finger and my neighbors playing that vapid 'new' country music again. Even with slugs, the pump 20 isn't a big enough threat. Can I keep a 105mm trained on his house 24 hours a day? Sooner or later Milt is going to form his Commander list posse and come to get me. If the land mines don't get him first, I've been mixing up home-made anthrax, with scrapings from glowing watches and baby poop. Sure to stop him dead in his tracks...... Is that protected? Are Federal drug laws ok? What do I care if someone is growing weed in their outhouse. It is very reassuring to hear of the exodus to Texas. God knows they've got the room. But what are you going to do about Austin? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Feldtman To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: It is time... that's why the founders set up a Republic - each state has it's own autonomy - except what the constitution says in clear black and white. it is NOT a living document for interpretation. I suggest we all re-read that document. I've seen more "out of state" license plates here in Texas in the last three months than I have ever seen before. Has the exodus quietly begun? The Republic of Texas won't have GA user fees! And I can go back to carrying heat in the plane. bobf On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Steve W <steve2@sover.net> wrote: <steve2@sover.net> I wasn't going to spoil it for David. He's a good sport. And Nico had written a very well thought out post. Even Milt wrote a smart and well balanced one. (Until the other one about the Militia guys maybe not being wackos. They are wackos but should be left alone. And New England and California? That's like mixing a New England version of the Waltons with Baywatch.) That piece was written to inflame passion, anger and fear; and the real author knew exactly what buttons to push to do so. There is such crazy assed shit being said on all sides, but hardly anyone seems to care if what is said is true or not. I remember pissing off a bunch of the far left about ten years ago over an environmental and farming issue when I had to learn the facts instead of parroting back the crap that was then coming through as faxes. I learned people were less interested in the truth than reinforcing something they already chose to believe. So a work program becomes evidence of an evil plot designed to create an army of Obama supporters who will seize power and make you honkies listen to better music and eat salad. It so often comes down to the manipulation and reinforcement of fear. Fear of loss, fear for safety, and the constant warnings now from so many sources pointing out new and dire threats. (I wonder, are pilots as a class more vigilant to identification of threat.) I'm not going to sacrifice everything that's best about us, pervert my values and live in perpetual fear because we're threatened. To hell with political parties and the moronic sides they make people take. But if a State wants to try some really, really stupid ideas and opt out of Federal laws and programs, I think they should be allowed to. Like now, if the citizens of Texas think guns are really too hard to get and want to opt out of Federal laws designed to keep guns from bad guys, and automatic weapons off the streets... Go for it. Give it a wack and see if if you like it. I think much of the time it is less right and left than it is rural sensibilities against city requirements. When we were just frontier and people were spread out common sense and little interference makes more sense. With you people breeding like rabbits, too much of the population is packed together like sardines. I'm not so sure rural rules would work in cities, and I wouldn't want to tell those folks what's best for them. Likewise out in the sticks, I like being left alone. I'll quit now. Been working on a major project way too many weeks in a row. A little punchy. (Note: the views above definately do not represent those of the swell little company I work for.) Please resume your regular programming. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com> To: <commander-list@matronics.com> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 11:13 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: It is time... <john@vormbaum.com> As much as I loved reading this, alas, it wasn't written by Kaiser. In fact, nobody knows who wrote it except for the signature "TPS". Bummer: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/proportions.asp -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Owens Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 10:48 AM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: It is time... --> <dowens@aerialviewpoint.com> "My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it." - Barack Obama History Unfolding I am a student of history. Professionally, I have written 15 books on history that have been published in six languages, and I have studied history all my life. I have come to think there is something monumentally large afoot, and I do not believe it is simply a banking crisis, or a mortgage crisis, or a credit crisis. Yes these exist, but they are merely single facets on a very large gemstone that is only now coming into a sharper focus. Something of historic proportions is happening. I can sense it because I know how it feels, smells, what it looks like, and how people react to it.. Yes, a perfect storm may be brewing, but there is something happening within our country that has been evolving for about ten to fifteen years. The pace has dramatically quickened in the past two. We demand and then codify into law the requirement that our banks make massive loans to people we know they can never pay back? Why? (JCS: Re above and below, I say in order to severlywound our country and our economy, and reduce our will to resist.) We learned just days ago that the Federal Reserve, which has little or no real oversight by anyone, has "loaned" two trillion dollars (that is $2,000,000,000,000) over the past few months, but will not tell us to whom or why or disclose the terms. That is our money. Yours and mine. And that is three times the $700 billion we all argued about so strenuously just this past September. Who has this money? Why do they have it? Why are the terms unavailable to us? Who asked for it? Who authorized it? I thought this was a government of "we the people," who loaned our powers to our elected leaders. Apparently not. We have spent two or more decades intentionally de-industrializing our economy. Why? We have intentionally dumbed down our schools, ignored our history, and no longer teach our founding documents, why we are exceptional, and why we are worth preserving. Students by and large cannot write, think critically, read, or articulate. Parents are not revolting, teachers are not picketing, school boards continue to back mediocrity. Why? We have now established the precedent of protesting every close election (violently in California over a proposition that is so controversial that it simply wants marriage to remain defined as between one man and one woman. Did you ever think such a thing possible just a decade ago?) We have corrupted our sacred political process by allowing unelected judges to write laws that radically change our way of life, and then mainstream Marxist groups like ACORN and others to turn our voting system into a banana republic. To what purpose? Now our mortgage industry is collapsing, housing prices are in free fall, major industries are failing, our banking system is on the verge of collapse, social security is nearly bankrupt, as is medicare and our entire government. Our education system is worse than a joke (I teach college and I know precisely what I am talking about) - the list is staggering in its length, breadth, and depth.. It is potentially 1929 x ten... And we are at war with an enemy we cannot even name for fear of offending people of the same religion, who, in turn, cannot wait to slit the throats of your children if they have the opportunity to do so. And finally, we have elected a man that no one really knows anything about, who has never run so much as a Dairy Queen, let alone a town as big asWasilla, Alaska . All of his associations and alliances are with real radicals in their chosen fields of employment, and everything we learn about him, drip by drip, is unsettling if not downright scary (Surely you have heard him speak about his idea to create and fund a mandatory civilian defense force stronger than our military for use inside our borders? No? Oh, of course. The media would never play that for you over and over and then demand he answer it. Sarah Palin's pregnant daughter and $150,000 wardrobe are more important.) Mr. Obama's winning platform can be boiled down to one word: Change. Why? I have never been so afraid for my country and for my children as I am now. This man campaigned on bringing people together, something he has never, ever done in his professional life. In my assessment, Obama will divide us along philosophical lines, push us apart, and then try to realign the pieces into a new and different power structure. Change is indeed coming. And when it comes, you will never see the same nation again. And that is only the beginning.. As a serious student of history, I thought I would never come to experience what the ordinary, moral German must have felt in the mid-1930s. In those times, the "savior" was a former smooth-talking rabble-rouser from the streets, about whom the average German knew next to nothing. What they should have known was that he was associated with groups that shouted, shoved, and pushed around people with whom they disagreed; he edged his way onto the political stage through great oratory. Conservative "losers" read it right now. And there were the promises. Economic times were tough, people were losing jobs, and he was a great speaker. And he smiled and frowned and waved a lot. And people, even newspapers, were afraid to speak out for fear that his "brown shirts" would bully and beat them into submission. Which they did - regularly. And then, he was duly elected to office, while a full-throttled economic crisis bloomed at hand - the Great Depression. Slowly, but surely he seized the controls of government power, person by person, department by department, bureaucracy by bureaucracy. The children of German citizens were at first, encouraged to join a Youth Movement in his name where they were taught exactly what to think. Later, they were required to do so. No Jews of course, How did he get people on his side? He did it by promising jobs to the jobless, money to the money-less, and rewards for the military-industrial complex. He did it by indoctrinating the children, advocating gun control, health care for all, better wages, better jobs, and promising to re-instill pride once again in the country, across Europe , and across the world. He did it with a compliant media - did you know that? And he did this all in the name of justice and .... . .. change. And the people surely got what they voted for. If you think I am exaggerating, look it up. It's all there in the history books. So read your history books. Many people of conscience objected in 1933 and were shouted down, called names, laughed at, and ridiculed. WhenWinston Churchill pointed out the obvious in the late 1930s while seated in the House of Lords in England (he was not yet Prime Minister), he was booed into his seat and called a crazy troublemaker. He was right, though. And the world came to regret that he was not listened to. Do not forget that Germany was the most educated, the most cultured country in Europe . It was full of music, art, museums, hospitals, laboratories, and universities. And yet, in less than six years (a shorter time span than just two terms of the U. S. presidency) it was rounding up its own citizens, killing others, abrogating its laws, turning children against parents, and neighbors against neighbors.. All with the best of intentions, of course. The road to Hell is paved with them. As a practical thinker, one not overly prone to emotional decisions, I have a choice: I can either believe what the objective pieces of evidence tell me (even if they make me cringe with disgust); I can believe what history is shouting to me from across the chasm of seven decades; or I can hope I am wrong by closing my eyes, having another latte, and ignoring what is transpiring around me.. I choose to believe the evidence. No doubt some people will scoff at me, others laugh, or think I am foolish, naive, or both. To some degree, perhaps I am. But I have never been afraid to look people in the eye and tell them exactly what I believe-and why I believe it. I pray I am wrong. I do not think I am. Perhaps the only hope is our vote in the next elections. David Kaiser Jamestown , Rhode Island United States ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c


    Message 7


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:31:29 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: N-152K
    From: "Cate Chagnot" <cchagnot@ultimateair.com>
    Dale, Welcome to the 'formation'! Are you outta your mind? Two? And now you're going to find that it will hurt too much to use one and strip it for parts. How can one let one of these beautiful Birds not fly? I owned (and still do) a Cessna 180 Skywagon when I bought my 680E from a US Marshall's sale. Every time I think about the fact that I should sell one to be able to pay for the other (and food), I just can't even think about it. I just get out my trusty gun and go shoot a deer, nail a retread to my feat and just keep 'em flying. We should rename this group as "Commander Nuts Anonymous". :-) Again. Welcome to the club! Cate N4278S Aero Commander 680E 8) -------- Cate N4278S 680E Skywagon N180PK Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243305#243305 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ofequal50590392_880.jpeg




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   commander-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list
  • Browse Commander-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --