Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:36 AM - Re: Fuming Mad! (N395V)
2. 06:55 AM - Re: Re: Fuming Mad! (BobsV35B@aol.com)
3. 07:10 AM - Re: Fuming Mad! (N395V)
4. 07:48 AM - Re: Re: Fuming Mad! (Robert Feldtman)
5. 08:16 AM - Re: Fuming Mad! (Steve)
6. 11:04 AM - Re: Very moving... (L D GIROD)
7. 11:10 AM - Re: Fuming Mad! (L D GIROD)
8. 11:39 AM - Re: Fuming Mad! (N395V)
9. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: Fuming Mad! (Brock Lorber)
10. 03:42 PM - Re: Very moving... (yourtcfg@aol.com)
11. 03:42 PM - Re: Fuming Mad! (yourtcfg@aol.com)
12. 03:52 PM - Re: Fuming Mad! (yourtcfg@aol.com)
Message 1
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It means elections have consequences.
The socialist bastards ran against George Ws "excesses in limiting our rights in
the name of security" now we have Napolitano's gestapo doing to law abiding
citizens what they wouldn't tolerate being done to a crackhead in downtown LA.
Funny you don't see any of this in the NYT or on CNN.
After all military veterans are potential terrorists and no one (except politiicians)
should be wealthy enough to own a plane.
You sorry shits that voted for the bastard got him now you get to live with (and
pay for him)
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247934#247934
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Good Morning Milt,
I totally agree with your sentiments.
The problem is, how do we get this thing back to being a Republic?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 6/13/2009 8:36:55 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
Bearcat@bearcataviation.com writes:
You sorry shits that voted for the bastard got him now you get to live
with (and pay for him)
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
JunestepsfooterNO62)
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Short of armed insurrection we don't.
We have now crossed a threshold where more people receive from the government than
pay in to it. We also have crossed the threshold where a greater percentage
of the voting population live in major metropolitan areas then rural. Their
wants and needs being totally divergent.
We are approaching 300 years which historically seems to be the life of a free
democracy.
Soon we will resemble Canada, then England and finally the Islamic Republic of
the Netherlands where something like 30% of newborn males are named mohammed.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247936#247936
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there is a glimmer of hope. check out the recent elections in Europe -
especially Netherlands.... The winner is a guy so "anti-muslim" that England
has forbidden him to enter the country.... Likewise, elections in England
have tilted right/ Switzerland... there is a limit. Question is -- how much
damage can Zero do which will be hard to or impossible to reverse.
bobf
On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 9:09 AM, N395V <Bearcat@bearcataviation.com> wrote:
> >
>
> Short of armed insurrection we don't.
>
> We have now crossed a threshold where more people receive from the
> government than pay in to it. We also have crossed the threshold where a
> greater percentage of the voting population live in major metropolitan areas
> then rural. Their wants and needs being totally divergent.
>
> We are approaching 300 years which historically seems to be the life of a
> free democracy.
>
> Soon we will resemble Canada, then England and finally the Islamic Republic
> of the Netherlands where something like 30% of newborn males are named
> mohammed.
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247936#247936
>
>
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NIco,
What a mess.
Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being
formed? This department was created back in '03 when all I ever heard
out of conservatives was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that
was spoken about. Creating these giant agencies, bypassing courts,
bypassing surveillance laws on citizens. All of this was done in the
name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to
limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'.
A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting
these things, and with the radicalization of the political climate,
we're in a box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and
Homeland Security he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable.
Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives
didn't play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed
instead to their massive buildup.
See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can
go back to normal.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Folks,
I am fuming mad.
The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can
understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on
that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards
similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in the
countryside. Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot fetish
decided to show his or her prowess that day and ordered a full-scale
scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you don't point a
firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is no
justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement.
Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the
rogue priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one
of the drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the
passengers lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling
trying to get out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the
officers perceived that as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear
your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating it from your
answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do not advocate
for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is just as
guilty.
Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect
when they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement,
insulting everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then,
Kelly, what should pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What
percentage could expect drawn weapons pointed at their parents or
children that happen to be with them that day? And don't say that it
will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious
passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where
such prior knowledge was not present; on the contrary, all indications
were that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your
agency embarked on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you
have certainly shown the methods by which you want to accomplish that
goal.
I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate
pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of
tyranny.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM
To: Boyd C. Braem
Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR!
So tell me what does this mean for us peons?
As seen in AVweb
A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security
Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA
said this week. The list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin
Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here for
the full list (PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires
pilots to "remain close to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to
and from the FBO or airport exit, according to AOPA, although some
airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots.
Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would
satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their
destinations and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for
information about that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The
TSA is expected to provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and
emergencies. The full text of the security directive has not been made
public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a list of
airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft
Security Program.
CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK
A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and
Border Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp
inspection of an aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was
justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general
aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the
newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information System
(eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have the
level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David
Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on
Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach
operation but she also said she could not discuss the circumstances that
led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP and local
police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the Long
Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in
more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online
filing of flight and passenger information for transborder flights,
became mandatory on May 18. In an interview and podcast with AVweb,
Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril by
gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's
experience is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by
the CBP. "This I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She
said the Long Beach action was justified, even though the search turned
up nothing illegal. "While the involvement of more than one law
enforcement agency and the heightened alert of the situation were
slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and
outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She
also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the
operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered,
something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had their
weapons out," Perry said. More...
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Subject: | Re: Very moving... |
Robert;
Although an 'economist' by college degree major, I do not take that
magazine, tried to pull the article up online, but failed. Will keep my
eye out in some of the stores, if I see it I will get it.
Thanks,
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert S. Randazzo
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 3:44 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
Don-
The Economist published a fantastic article explaining the
relationship between capitalism, greed and government regulation this
past week. If you can get a copy- do so.
I've always enjoyed the Economist because they really don't care to
take sides- they simply address things from the perspective of what is
good from an economic standpoint. This article pokes fun at those
running around screaming about socialism, but then turns the corner to
wag a firm finger in the direction of Washington to warn them of the
potential pitfalls in the current course of action.
I like well rounded. Astoundingly rare in this age of sound-bites and
talking-head-infighting.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of L D
GIROD
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:30 PM
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
Bruce & Andrew
I am a Capitalist through and through, although I do believe it must
be monitored lest Greed takes control.
In our current situation here in the USA, we have forced many people
out of work and to take substantial pay cuts for the greed of the bean
counters. In my opinion there is a "thin red line" between Capitalism
and Greed, and we walk a fine line to maintain this balance while still
protecting our Freedoms. Corruption enters the picture and we loose our
freedoms and increase our greed.
I have never understood how if I offer a cop a hundred dollars its a
bribe but if I give a thousand dollars to a PAC it is a donation, am I
not really trying to buy influence? Once again the question, how do we
balance all this, capitalism, freedom, & our constitutional rights. The
pendulum swings, however, when the government enters the picture, things
seem to really get screwed up. I don't know the answers, but I do have
some thoughts.
I tend to be a Libertarian at heart and believe in our Constitution as
it is written, but neither of the major parties want that to happen, in
fact many times I have trouble telling them apart.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: andrew.bridget@telus.net
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
Bruce, the last line was a bit of humour aimed at getting a rise out
of these good Twin Commander people - compare a Twin Commander to
Socialism? Scandalous!
I do stand by what I said, though: socialism can only work in
perfect harmony - but it has to be perfect harmony in the society. I'm
not passing judgement on whether it is evil or good. What I said was
"socialism is fine if only everybody is equal and everybody wants it to
the same degree." If everybody in the socialist unit is equal and
everybody wants socialism to the same degree then everybody's judgement
of it would be the same. That is democracy. It is not a case of
socialism never being able to work: where socialism has worked for those
in the system is where it is totally voluntary and where they share the
same belief, for example, monasteries and kibbutzim.
I once read an inspirational story about a man who was taken on a
tour of "heaven" and "hell". He was taken to "hell" first - there he saw
people starving, screaming, fighting each other, even resorting to
cannibalism. As if to torture them further in the middle of the room,
but surrounded by fire, was a huge pot of delicious food. The only way
people could get at the food was with long handled spoons, but the
spoons were so long that once they filled the spoon from the pot, they
couldn't get it into their mouths. The second room was "heaven" and it
was almost the same: same pot of food, same surrounding fire, same long
handled spoons, but all the people were contented and well-fed. The man
asked his guide why this group was well-fed and content. His guide
replied, "Here they have learned to feed each other."
From a personal perspective I am no socialist - capitalist to the
hilt - but I do tend to lean more to the side of altruism. I am
interested in anthropology and what makes people think the way they do -
like the woman in the grocery line-up and the altruistic side of me
feels bad for her and her situation, whatever it may be.
God bless,
Andrew
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Steve;
We get lied to a lot and also the politicians have a much longer time
frame than we do, so they sneak thing through, consider the Panama Canal
with Jimmy Carter. Past the law but was not effective until almost
twenty years later.
One thing that most don't remember as it did not make much news was
Clinton signing a 'treaty with the UN' hours before leaving office (same
time frame as all the pardons). Thank goodness Geo W. nullified it
within a few hours of being sworn in, a treaty supersedes the
Constitution. Rumor had it Slick Willy was trying to be appointed
president of the UN.
But makes one ask, "Where do we get these self serving idiots"?
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
NIco,
What a mess.
Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being
formed? This department was created back in '03 when all I ever heard
out of conservatives was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that
was spoken about. Creating these giant agencies, bypassing courts,
bypassing surveillance laws on citizens. All of this was done in the
name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to
limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'.
A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting
these things, and with the radicalization of the political climate,
we're in a box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and
Homeland Security he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable.
Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives
didn't play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed
instead to their massive buildup.
See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I
can go back to normal.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Folks,
I am fuming mad.
The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One
can understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous
persons on that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all
standards similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in
the countryside. Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot
fetish decided to show his or her prowess that day and ordered a
full-scale scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you don't
point a firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is
no justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement.
Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of
the rogue priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if
one of the drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the
passengers lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling
trying to get out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the
officers perceived that as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear
your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating it from your
answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do not advocate
for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is just as
guilty.
Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect
when they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement,
insulting everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then,
Kelly, what should pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What
percentage could expect drawn weapons pointed at their parents or
children that happen to be with them that day? And don't say that it
will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious
passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where
such prior knowledge was not present; on the contrary, all indications
were that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your
agency embarked on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you
have certainly shown the methods by which you want to accomplish that
goal.
I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit
legitimate pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this
kind of tyranny.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM
To: Boyd C. Braem
Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR!
So tell me what does this mean for us peons?
As seen in AVweb
A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security
Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA
said this week. The list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin
Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here for
the full list (PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires
pilots to "remain close to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to
and from the FBO or airport exit, according to AOPA, although some
airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots.
Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that
would satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their
destinations and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for
information about that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The
TSA is expected to provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and
emergencies. The full text of the security directive has not been made
public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a list of
airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft
Security Program.
CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK
A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and
Border Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp
inspection of an aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was
justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general
aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the
newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information System
(eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have the
level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David
Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on
Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach
operation but she also said she could not discuss the circumstances that
led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP and local
police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the Long
Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in
more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online
filing of flight and passenger information for transborder flights,
became mandatory on May 18. In an interview and podcast with AVweb,
Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril by
gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's
experience is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by
the CBP. "This I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She
said the Long Beach action was justified, even though the search turned
up nothing illegal. "While the involvement of more than one law
enforcement agency and the heightened alert of the situation were
slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and
outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She
also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the
operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered,
something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had their
weapons out," Perry said. More...
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 8
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> having inheriting these things
When George W was in office they didn't mug law abiding pilots at gunpoint.
Had that happened during the Bush Admin it is all we would have seen on the news
for a month followed by impeachment proceedings.
Customs and Border patrol have existed since long before the Bush admin. Thing
is obama is slug and he is letting napolitano run roughshod over mostly conservatives.
This sorry piece of crap is reading miranda rights to terrorists on the battlefield
and treating them like royalty. He bows to Saudi royalty and then treats
US citizens like crap.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247967#247967
Message 9
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http://articles.latimes.com/2008/nov/21/nation/na-shootdown21
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of N395V
Sent: Sat 6/13/2009 11:38 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Fuming Mad!
<Bearcat@bearcataviation.com>
> having inheriting these things
When George W was in office they didn't mug law abiding pilots at
gunpoint.
Had that happened during the Bush Admin it is all we would have seen on
the news for a month followed by impeachment proceedings.
Customs and Border patrol have existed since long before the Bush admin.
Thing is obama is slug and he is letting napolitano run roughshod over
mostly conservatives.
This sorry piece of crap is reading miranda rights to terrorists on the
battlefield and treating them like royalty. He bows to Saudi royalty and
then treats US citizens like crap.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247967#247967
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Very moving... |
HI DON.........
Give me a call at 360-903-6901.=C2- Thanks!!=C2- Jim Metzger
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: L D GIROD <dongirod@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sat, Jun 13, 2009 11:01 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
Robert;
=C2-
Although an 'economist' by college degree major, I do not take that magazi
ne, tried to pull the article up online, but failed.=C2- Will keep my ey
e out in some of the stores, if I see it I will get it.
=C2-
Thanks,
=C2-
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert S. Randazzo
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 3:44 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
Don-
=C2-
The Economist published a fantastic article explaining the relationship be
tween capitalism, greed and government regulation this past week.=C2- If
you can get a copy- do so
=C2-
I=99ve always enjoyed the Economist because they really don=99
t care to take sides- they simply address things from the perspective of
what is good from an economic standpoint.=C2- This article pokes fun at
those running around screaming about socialism, but then turns the corner
to wag a firm finger in the direction of Washington to warn them of the
potential pitfalls in the current course of action.
=C2-
I like well rounded=C2- Astoundingly rare in this age of sound-
bites and talking-head-infighting
=C2-
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
=C2-
From: owner-commander-lis
t-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of L D GIROD
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
=C2-
Bruce & Andrew
=C2-
I am a Capitalist through and through, although I do believe it must be mo
nitored lest Greed takes control.
=C2-
In our current situation here in the USA, we have forced many people out
of work and to take substantial pay cuts for the greed of the bean counte
rs.=C2- In my opinion there is a "thin red line" between Capitalism and
Greed, and we walk a fine line to maintain this balance while still prote
cting our Freedoms.=C2- Corruption enters the picture and we loose our
freedoms and increase our greed.
=C2-
I have never understood how if I offer a cop a hundred dollars its a bribe
but if I give a thousand dollars=C2-to a PAC it is a donation, am I not
really trying to buy influence?=C2- Once again the question, how do we
balance all this, capitalism, freedom, & our constitutional rights.=C2-
The pendulum swings, however, when the government enters the picture, thi
ngs seem to really get screwed up.=C2- I don't know the answers, but I
do have some thoughts.=C2-
=C2-
I tend to be a Libertarian at heart and believe in our Constitution as it
is written, but neither of the major parties want that to happen, in fact
many times I have trouble telling them apart.
=C2-
Don
----
- Original Message -----
From: andrew.bridget@telus.net
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
=C2-
Bruce, the last line was a bit of humour aimed at getting a rise out of th
ese good Twin Commander people - compare a Twin Commander to Socialism? Sc
andalous!
=C2-
I do stand by what I said, though: socialism can only work in perfect harm
ony - but it has to be perfect harmony in the society.=C2-I'm not passin
g judgement on whether it is evil or good.=C2-What I said was "socialism
is fine if only everybody is equal and everybody wants it to the same deg
ree." If everybody in the socialist unit is equal and everybody wants soci
alism to the same degree then everybody's judgement of it would be the sam
e. That is democracy. It is not a case of socialism never being able to wo
rk: where socialism has worked=C2-for those in the system=C2-is where
it is totally voluntary and where they share the same belief, for example
, monasteries and kibbutzim.
=C2-
I once read an inspirational=C2-story about a man who was taken on a tou
r of "heaven" and "hell". He was taken to "hell" first - there he saw peop
le starving, screaming, fighting each other, even resorting to cannibalism
. As if to torture them further in the middle of the room, but surrounded
by fire, was a huge pot of delicious food.=C2-The only way people could
get at the food was with long handled spo
ons, but the spoons were so long that=C2-once they filled the spoon from
the pot, they couldn't get it into their mouths. The second room was "hea
ven" and it was almost the same: same pot of food, same surrounding fire,
same long handled spoons, but all the people were contented and well-fed.
The man asked his guide why this group was=C2-well-fed and content. His
guide replied, "Here they have learned to feed each other."=C2-=C2-
=C2-
>From a personal perspective I am no socialist - capitalist to the hilt -
but I do tend to=C2-lean more to the side of=C2-altruism.=C2-I am
interested in anthropology and what makes people think the way they do -
like the woman in the grocery line-up and the altruistic side of me feels
bad for her and her situation, whatever it may be.
=C2-
God bless,
Andrew
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 11
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Anem!!? jb
Thank goodness Geo W. nullified it within a few hours of being sworn in, a treaty
supersedes?the Constitution.?
-----Original Message-----
From: L D GIROD <dongirod@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sat, Jun 13, 2009 11:10 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Steve;
?
We get lied to a lot and also the politicians have a much longer time frame than
we do, so they sneak thing through, consider the Panama Canal with Jimmy Carter.?
Past the law but was not effective until almost twenty years later.?
?
One thing that most don't remember?as it?did not make much news was Clinton signing
a 'treaty with the UN' hours before leaving office (same time frame as all
the pardons).?Thank goodness Geo W. nullified it within a few hours of being
sworn in, a treaty supersedes?the Constitution.? Rumor had it Slick Willy was
trying to be appointed president of the UN.?
?
But makes one ask, "Where do we get these self serving idiots"?
?
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
NIco,
?
What a mess.
?
Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being formed? This?department
was created back in '03 when all I ever heard out of conservatives
was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that was spoken about. Creating
these giant agencies, bypassing courts, bypassing surveillance laws on citizens.
All of this was done in the name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on
terrorists. Attempts to limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen
as 'soft'.
?
A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting these things,
and with the radicalization of the political climate, we're in a box. If the
new guy moves to defang border patrol and Homeland Security he'll be slammed
for making us more vulnerable.
?
Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives didn't play
their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed instead to their
massive buildup.
?
See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can go back
to normal.
?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Folks,
?
I am fuming mad.
?
The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can understand
if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on that flight,
but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards similar to an outing
with the family in one's automobile in the countryside. Some brainless twit in
Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show his or her prowess that day
and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you
don't point a firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is
no justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement.
?
Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the rogue priests
of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the drawn
weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers lowered his
hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get out of the plane
under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived that as reaching for
a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating
it from your answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do
not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is
just as guilty.
?
Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when they
are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting everybody's
intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should pilots expect
when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could expect drawn weapons
pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with them that day?
And don't say that it will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious
passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where
such prior knowledge was not present;?on the contrary, all indications were
that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your agency embarked
on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you have certainly shown
the methods by which you want to accomplish that goal.
?
I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate pursuit
of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of tyranny.
?
Nico
?
?
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR!
So tell me what does this mean for us peons?
As seen in AVweb
A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security Directive
(SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said this week. The
list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and
Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here for the full list (PDF). The directive
took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain close to their aircraft,"
leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or airport exit, according to AOPA,
although some airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots.
Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would satisfy
the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations and ask the
airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about that airport's
security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to provide future guidance
regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full text of the security directive
has not been made public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a
list of airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft
Security Program.
CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK
A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border Protection
(CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an aircraft in
Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko
also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by
CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information
System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have
the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David Perry
and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on Tuesday that there
was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach operation but she also
said she could not discuss the circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture
than normal by the CBP and local police. She also said that while eAPIS
had nothing to do with the Long Beach inspection, information provided through
eAPIS could result in more frequent GA inspections.
The system, which involves the online filing of flight and passenger information
for transborder flights, became mandatory on May 18. In an interview and podcast
with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril
by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's experience
is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This
I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach
action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal. "While
the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the heightened alert
of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to
inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told
AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the
operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered, something
Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had
t
heir weapons out," Perry said. More...
?
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 12
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Opps,I meant, AMEN!!
?Thank goodness Geo W. nullified it within a few hours of being sworn in, a treaty
supersedes?the Constitution.?
-----Original Message-----
From: L D GIROD <dongirod@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sat, Jun 13, 2009 11:10 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Steve;
?
We get lied to a lot and also the politicians have a much longer time frame than
we do, so they sneak thing through, consider the Panama Canal with Jimmy Carter.?
Past the law but was not effective until almost twenty years later.?
?
One thing that most don't remember?as it?did not make much news was Clinton signing
a 'treaty with the UN' hours before leaving office (same time frame as all
the pardons).?Thank goodness Geo W. nullified it within a few hours of being
sworn in, a treaty supersedes?the Constitution.? Rumor had it Slick Willy was
trying to be appointed president of the UN.?
?
But makes one ask, "Where do we get these self serving idiots"?
?
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
NIco,
?
What a mess.
?
Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being formed? This?department
was created back in '03 when all I ever heard out of conservatives
was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that was spoken about. Creating
these giant agencies, bypassing courts, bypassing surveillance laws on citizens.
All of this was done in the name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on
terrorists. Attempts to limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen
as 'soft'.
?
A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting these things,
and with the radicalization of the political climate, we're in a box. If the
new guy moves to defang border patrol and Homeland Security he'll be slammed
for making us more vulnerable.
?
Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives didn't play
their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed instead to their
massive buildup.
?
See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can go back
to normal.
?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Folks,
?
I am fuming mad.
?
The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can understand
if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on that flight,
but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards similar to an outing
with the family in one's automobile in the countryside. Some brainless twit in
Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show his or her prowess that day
and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you
don't point a firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is
no justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement.
?
Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the rogue priests
of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the drawn
weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers lowered his
hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get out of the plane
under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived that as reaching for
a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating
it from your answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do
not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is
just as guilty.
?
Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when they
are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting everybody's
intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should pilots expect
when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could expect drawn weapons
pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with them that day?
And don't say that it will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious
passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where
such prior knowledge was not present;?on the contrary, all indications were
that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your agency embarked
on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you have certainly shown
the methods by which you want to accomplish that goal.
?
I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate pursuit
of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of tyranny.
?
Nico
?
?
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR!
So tell me what does this mean for us peons?
As seen in AVweb
A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security Directive
(SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said this week. The
list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and
Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here for the full list (PDF). The directive
took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain close to their aircraft,"
leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or airport exit, according to AOPA,
although some airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots.
Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would satisfy
the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations and ask the
airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about that airport's
security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to provide future guidance
regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full text of the security directive
has not been made public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a
list of airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft
Security Program.
CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK
A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border Protection
(CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an aircraft in
Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko
also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by
CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information
System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have
the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David Perry
and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on Tuesday that there
was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach operation but she also
said she could not discuss the circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture
than normal by the CBP and local police. She also said that while eAPIS
had nothing to do with the Long Beach inspection, information provided through
eAPIS could result in more frequent GA inspections.
The system, which involves the online filing of flight and passenger information
for transborder flights, became mandatory on May 18. In an interview and podcast
with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril
by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's experience
is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This
I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach
action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal. "While
the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the heightened alert
of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to
inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told
AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the
operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered, something
Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had
t
heir weapons out," Perry said. More...
?
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
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