Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:34 PM - Re: (yourtcfg@aol.com)
2. 04:09 PM - Re: (Jim Addington)
3. 05:10 PM - Re: STC's for IO-540 (Chris)
4. 08:14 PM - Re: wet pump vs. dry (Bill Hamilton)
5. 08:54 PM - Re: wet pump vs. dry (BobsV35B@aol.com)
6. 09:53 PM - Re: wet pump vs. dry (Bill Hamilton)
7. 10:17 PM - Re: wet pump vs. dry (John Vormbaum)
Message 1
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Sorry to hear that Jim!!!? Praying for that miracle for you.?
Any chance you'll be coming to the Fly-In this year??
Best Regards,
~Jim & Sue
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington@verizon.net>
Sent: Mon, Aug 17, 2009 5:56 pm
Subject: Commander-List:
Hello All,
Well it looks like unless a real miracle comes along I will need to sell N444BD.
I really hate to because I have had it since 01APR1981. We have been through
a lot together and it has always gotten me out of any trouble I got it into.
Jim Addington
940 382 3150
Message 2
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I wish I could but right now I don't see any way. I always take all the
prayers I can get, thanks.
Jim
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
Sorry to hear that Jim!!! Praying for that miracle for you.
Any chance you'll be coming to the Fly-In this year??
Best Regards,
~Jim & Sue
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Addington <jtaddington@verizon.net>
Sent: Mon, Aug 17, 2009 5:56 pm
Subject: Commander-List:
Hello All,
Well it looks like unless a real miracle comes along I will need to sell
N444BD. I really hate to because I have had it since 01APR1981. We have been
through a lot together and it has always gotten me out of any trouble I got
it into.
Jim Addington
940 382 3150
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: STC's for IO-540 |
willis robison wrote:
> Has anyone STC'd IO-540's onto a 560 or 680?
>
Unfortunately, no. Looked into this topic at length back when I was a
Commander owner. Actually had an IO-540K 300hp mounted up to a 560
nacelle for a test fit. It requires a custom dynafocal mount to be
fabricated and you'd need a compact hub Hartzel with the hub extension
(like an Aztec uses) to make it work. I did a little market research
back then and couldn't find enough interested people to justify the
expense of producing a package.
cs
Message 4
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| Subject: | wet pump vs. dry |
Garry,
I can only echo Moe's recommendation 110%, stay as far away from carbon vane
dry pumps as you can, not only a high propensity to failure, but they "fail
hard", seemingly at random, no gradual loss of vacuum.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Moe-rosspistons
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: wet pump vs. dry
Gary,
Please stay with the wet pump. The dry pumps have a very high failure rate,
whereas the wet pumps seem to last almost indefinitely. With the dry pumps
you should never turn the prop backward (which sometimes happens when
shutting the engine down) whereas, with the wet pumps it makes no
difference.
Regards,
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Gary Moshluk <mailto:gmosh@charter.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 11:38 AM
Subject: Commander-List: wet pump vs. dry
Has anyone switched from wet vacuum pumps to the dry variety. A rebuild of
my recently failed wet pump was quoted at $800.00. Relatively speaking, a
brand new dry pump looks to be a bargain @ $500.00
My vac unit for the left engine is mounted on the bottom end of a "T" which
also drives the hydraulic pump. I'm considering swapping the wet pump off
the right engine -which is mounted directly to the accessory case - and
replace that pump with the dry unit. By mounting the dry pump on the right
engine it would attach to the back of the engine in the conventional manner.
Comments? Recommendations...My Commander is a straight 560 with GO-480B
engines
Gary
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: wet pump vs. dry |
Good Evening Bill,
Interesting conversation concerning vacuum pumps. Personally, I like the
dry pumps. They are lighter cheaper, and do not throw oil all over the bel
ly
or nacelle as the case may be.
Properly set up wet pumps with a good oil separator can run reasonably
clean, but most are rather dirty. The dry pumps can be monitored and, if
changed when they start to throw carbon, can have quite high reliability
numbers. When mounted on a twin, the reliability is excellent. If you need
a
pneumatic system to operate boots, that is another story, but I really lik
e
being all electric!
On my own airplane, I have eliminated all of the pneumatic instruments and
gone all electric. Vacuum instruments are, very truthfully, World War One
technology. They were bordering on antiquity by WWII.
I do not have any knowledge about certification problems with Commanders,
but, for most aircraft, going all electric is easy.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Downers Grove, Illinois
LL22
In a message dated 8/18/2009 10:14:59 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au writes:
Garry,
I can only echo Moe=99s recommendation 110%, stay as far away from
carbon
vane dry pumps as you can, not only a high propensity to failure, but the
y =9C
fail hard=9D, seemingly at random, no gradual loss of vacuum.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe-rossp
istons
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: wet pump vs. dry
Gary,
Please stay with the wet pump. The dry pumps have a very high failure
rate, whereas the wet pumps seem to last almost indefinitely. With the
dry
pumps you should never turn the prop backward (which sometimes happens wh
en
shutting the engine down) whereas, with the wet pumps it makes no
difference.
Regards,
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: _Gary Moshluk_ (mailto:gmosh@charter.net)
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 11:38 AM
Subject: Commander-List: wet pump vs. dry
Has anyone switched from wet vacuum pumps to the dry variety. A rebuild
of my recently failed wet pump was quoted at $800.00. Relatively speakin
g,
a brand new dry pump looks to be a bargain @ $500.00
My vac unit for the left engine is mounted on the bottom end of a "T"
which also drives the hydraulic pump. I'm considering swapping the wet
pump
off the right engine -which is mounted directly to the accessory case -
and
replace that pump with the dry unit. By mounting the dry pump on the rig
ht
engine it would attach to the back of the engine in the conventional
manner.
Comments? Recommendations...My Commander is a straight 560 with GO-480B
engines
Gary
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
========================
============
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
========================
============
Message 6
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| Subject: | wet pump vs. dry |
Hello, Bob,
I certainly agree about dirty bellies (free corrosion proofing) and if
it was a one very careful owner/operator, maybe, but our stats. are
pretty conclusive. At least with any Commander, not too much of a
problem getting at the underside of the engine cowls. I have oil/air
separators, and the modified breathers, because of the Cleveland brakes.
As for your other comments, more than a grain of truth, and on my 500A,
I have done serious surgery on the instruments, so that I have a split
between electric and vacuum instruments.
The main AI is 115/400 from a large inverter, with a standby inverter
just big enough to run the AI only, there is a 2.5 inch standby AI on
28v dc from a hot battery bus (only a cb, not through the electrical
master) and a 28v DC turn and slip, off a main bus. The CDI is a Collins
PN 101, also running the RMI and the A/P heading. On the right side, the
vacuum AI is connected to the Century 111, so I=99m not normally
looking at the same attitude indication as the auto-pilot, and there is
a vacuum DG for anybody flying from the right seat --- which has full
panel except for the bat and ball.
Bottom line, I have to lose both alternators, both vacuum pumps and run
the batteries (Hawker Power Cells) flat to not have at least one AI.
I am really looking forward to getting the old girl back in the air.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
PS: I am hoping to be able to mount the main inverter, a big sod,
weights about 28 lbs., far enough back that I can fly two up without
ballast in the baggage locker, they all go better if you can keep close
to the aft CG. I am also looking at a field mod to use auto HID lights
for the landing lights, then I can have real flamethrowers, without
temperature/overheating worries ------ you never know what wildlife
=93 two or four legs --- you are likely to find, some of the place
I go.
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: wet pump vs. dry
Good Evening Bill,
Interesting conversation concerning vacuum pumps. Personally, I like the
dry pumps. They are lighter cheaper, and do not throw oil all over the
belly or nacelle as the case may be.
Properly set up wet pumps with a good oil separator can run reasonably
clean, but most are rather dirty. The dry pumps can be monitored and,
if changed when they start to throw carbon, can have quite high
reliability numbers. When mounted on a twin, the reliability is
excellent. If you need a pneumatic system to operate boots, that is
another story, but I really like being all electric!
On my own airplane, I have eliminated all of the pneumatic instruments
and gone all electric. Vacuum instruments are, very truthfully, World
War One technology. They were bordering on antiquity by WWII.
I do not have any knowledge about certification problems with
Commanders, but, for most aircraft, going all electric is easy.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Downers Grove, Illinois
LL22
In a message dated 8/18/2009 10:14:59 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au writes:
Garry,
I can only echo Moe=99s recommendation 110%, stay as far away from
carbon vane dry pumps as you can, not only a high propensity to failure,
but they =9Cfail hard=9D, seemingly at random, no gradual
loss of vacuum.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Moe-rosspistons
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: wet pump vs. dry
Gary,
Please stay with the wet pump. The dry pumps have a very high failure
rate, whereas the wet pumps seem to last almost indefinitely. With the
dry pumps you should never turn the prop backward (which sometimes
happens when shutting the engine down) whereas, with the wet pumps it
makes no difference.
Regards,
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Gary Moshluk <mailto:gmosh@charter.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 11:38 AM
Subject: Commander-List: wet pump vs. dry
Has anyone switched from wet vacuum pumps to the dry variety. A rebuild
of my recently failed wet pump was quoted at $800.00. Relatively
speaking, a brand new dry pump looks to be a bargain @ $500.00
My vac unit for the left engine is mounted on the bottom end of a "T"
which also drives the hydraulic pump. I'm considering swapping the wet
pump off the right engine -which is mounted directly to the accessory
case - and replace that pump with the dry unit. By mounting the dry
pump on the right engine it would attach to the back of the engine in
the conventional manner.
Comments? Recommendations...My Commander is a straight 560 with GO-480B
engines
Gary
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
_____
Message 7
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| Subject: | wet pump vs. dry |
A very interesting conversation. I would love to go all electric, although I
have boots on my 500B. They're shot, and I need new ones. I will get them,
as I consider them valuable emergency equipment. I don't have much problem
with oil on the nacelles etc. and would keep my wet pumps anyway since they
rarely (and almost never catastrophically) fail.
Actually, though, what this tells me is that I REALLY need to meet Old Bob &
Bill Hamilton sometime soon and really keep my ears open. At 41, I will
certainly be finished flying before I learn all the things that you two have
forgotten already. It would be quite a treat to listen to the two of you
having a conversation. Any chance you can make it to Reno, CA USA for the
Commander fly-in? I'll have cold beer waiting! Ilinois is close
enough....Bill, you're in Australia, right? Perhaps Russell or Richard can
pack you with them when they come?
Cheers,
/John
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Hamilton
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:53 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: wet pump vs. dry
Hello, Bob,
I certainly agree about dirty bellies (free corrosion proofing) and if it
was a one very careful owner/operator, maybe, but our stats. are pretty
conclusive. At least with any Commander, not too much of a problem getting
at the underside of the engine cowls. I have oil/air separators, and the
modified breathers, because of the Cleveland brakes.
As for your other comments, more than a grain of truth, and on my 500A, I
have done serious surgery on the instruments, so that I have a split between
electric and vacuum instruments.
The main AI is 115/400 from a large inverter, with a standby inverter just
big enough to run the AI only, there is a 2.5 inch standby AI on 28v dc from
a hot battery bus (only a cb, not through the electrical master) and a 28v
DC turn and slip, off a main bus. The CDI is a Collins PN 101, also running
the RMI and the A/P heading. On the right side, the vacuum AI is connected
to the Century 111, so I'm not normally looking at the same attitude
indication as the auto-pilot, and there is a vacuum DG for anybody flying
from the right seat --- which has full panel except for the bat and ball.
Bottom line, I have to lose both alternators, both vacuum pumps and run the
batteries (Hawker Power Cells) flat to not have at least one AI.
I am really looking forward to getting the old girl back in the air.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
PS: I am hoping to be able to mount the main inverter, a big sod, weights
about 28 lbs., far enough back that I can fly two up without ballast in the
baggage locker, they all go better if you can keep close to the aft CG. I am
also looking at a field mod to use auto HID lights for the landing lights,
then I can have real flamethrowers, without temperature/overheating worries
------ you never know what wildlife - two or four legs --- you are likely to
find, some of the place I go.
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: wet pump vs. dry
Good Evening Bill,
Interesting conversation concerning vacuum pumps. Personally, I like the dry
pumps. They are lighter cheaper, and do not throw oil all over the belly or
nacelle as the case may be.
Properly set up wet pumps with a good oil separator can run reasonably
clean, but most are rather dirty. The dry pumps can be monitored and, if
changed when they start to throw carbon, can have quite high reliability
numbers. When mounted on a twin, the reliability is excellent. If you need a
pneumatic system to operate boots, that is another story, but I really like
being all electric!
On my own airplane, I have eliminated all of the pneumatic instruments and
gone all electric. Vacuum instruments are, very truthfully, World War One
technology. They were bordering on antiquity by WWII.
I do not have any knowledge about certification problems with Commanders,
but, for most aircraft, going all electric is easy.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Downers Grove, Illinois
LL22
In a message dated 8/18/2009 10:14:59 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au writes:
Garry,
I can only echo Moe's recommendation 110%, stay as far away from carbon vane
dry pumps as you can, not only a high propensity to failure, but they "fail
hard", seemingly at random, no gradual loss of vacuum.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Moe-rosspistons
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: wet pump vs. dry
Gary,
Please stay with the wet pump. The dry pumps have a very high failure rate,
whereas the wet pumps seem to last almost indefinitely. With the dry pumps
you should never turn the prop backward (which sometimes happens when
shutting the engine down) whereas, with the wet pumps it makes no
difference.
Regards,
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: Gary <mailto:gmosh@charter.net> Moshluk
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 11:38 AM
Subject: Commander-List: wet pump vs. dry
Has anyone switched from wet vacuum pumps to the dry variety. A rebuild of
my recently failed wet pump was quoted at $800.00. Relatively speaking, a
brand new dry pump looks to be a bargain @ $500.00
My vac unit for the left engine is mounted on the bottom end of a "T" which
also drives the hydraulic pump. I'm considering swapping the wet pump off
the right engine -which is mounted directly to the accessory case - and
replace that pump with the dry unit. By mounting the dry pump on the right
engine it would attach to the back of the engine in the conventional manner.
Comments? Recommendations...My Commander is a straight 560 with GO-480B
engines
Gary
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
_____
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