---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/20/09: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:26 AM - Re: STC for IO-540 conversion (Bill Hamilton) 2. 05:51 AM - Re: STC for IO-540 conversion (BobsV35B@aol.com) 3. 06:54 AM - (MASON CHEVAILLIER) 4. 02:38 PM - Re: TCFG Fly-In (WINGFLYER1@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:26:17 AM PST US From: "Bill Hamilton" Subject: RE: Commander-List: STC for IO-540 conversion Bob, I know of at least one 500A where IO-520s have been dropped in to replace the IO-470Ms. The change includes a three blade prop. I have been trying to get a straight answer from Hartzell as to whether I can run the extra 30hp through my existing two blade props. Two blades might not be as sexy as three, but the fewer the blades the greater efficiency, all else being equal, as a number of early C 310 owners have found, to their great expense. Spend all that money, and the aeroplane goes slower. Likewise, the potential for vibration couples from going to three blade props, again as some C310 owners have found out ---- in this case having to ditch the three blade props. As far as I can see, the IO-550 will drop in, with very minor modifications to the cowl for clearance. Our experience with the 520 is that cooling is no problem, the cowl gills have enough "latitude" to accommodate the small increase in high power cooling demand. A mate of mine is about to do a turbo-prop conversion to a C340A, which will leave a pair of TSIO-520 looking for a good home, I will be easily tempted. A ripper conversion is an IO-550 in a C-182, gives a whole meaning to "get up and go", and the conversion was easy. These have all been done to our equivalent of a filed mod., with a DER signoff. I note there is a AC680FPL with STC 400hp Lycomings on eBay right now. Cheers, Bill Hamilton From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:46 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: STC for IO-540 conversion Good Morning Chris, You already know I am an unabashed lover of the Continental IO-550-B. I have always thought that the 550 would be a natural to replace the Continentals that were used in a few Commander 500-A's many years ago. How much difference is there between the mounts for Commanders with IO-470-M Continentals and the ones with Lycomings? I am not at all familiar with how the IO-470-M mounts. Is it the same as most 470s? If so, the 550 should be a drop in replacement. Always nice to have an engine with many users that is also in current production. Just musing, but that IS always fun. Now, if we could just get rid of the FAA ---?--- Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 8/19/2009 7:55:56 A.M. Central Daylight Time, cschuerm@cox.net writes: willis robison wrote: > Thanks Chris, > > Well, we may have to consider it if we ever lose the IGO-540s. > Although I wouldnt go into producing the mounts, I would provide the > drawings, gratis for those who also needed a conversion. > A good starting point might be to find a Cherokee-6/300 in a bone yard. You'd at least have the correct engine and a mount that could be modified. There was also a company that had an stc to put TIO-540-J2BD 350hp engines on the flat nacelle Commanders. I assume they built their own mount and it might be closer to what's needed. Anyone know for sure how much the firewall mount points differ between a bathtub and streamline ============================================== - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =============================================== - List Contribution Web Site sp; ================================================== _____ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:58 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: STC for IO-540 conversion Good Morning Bill, Totally agree about the two blade issue. I tried to get a two blade for my Bonanza when I installed my first IO-550-B. I was told by both Hartzell and McCauley that there was plenty of room on the Bonanza to swing a two blade that could easily absorb the three hundred plus horsepower. They didn't have any two blades approved for the installation because no one had asked for it. They told me (this was in 1996) that the minimum cha rge to run the certification data would be one hundred thousand dollars and that the test propellor would be junk. If something came up that had to be modified to get the approval, another one hundred thousand dollar test ru n would be needed. Obviously I am struggling along with three blade propell ors on all our 550s. An example of how well a two blade works at those horsepowers is the Malib u and Mirage. Piper kept testing various propellors and that relatively short, fat, two blade always made the best compromise between speed and climb performance. It wasn't until after the little German composite four blade became ubiquitous on the Malibu that Piper succumbed to getting a three blade approved. The only reason we are stuck with three blade props on the thre e to four hundred horsepower range is because people think they look sexy. You are probably aware that the Bonanza that is running around the country using a Duke engine sports a two blade much like the one on an early Malibu. That particular engine installation was done by Darryl Greenamyer with the after hour assistance of a team of Lockheed Skunk Works engineers. I think they knew what they were doing! Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 8/20/2009 3:26:54 A.M. Central Daylight Time, wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au writes: Bob, I know of at least one 500A where IO-520s have been dropped in to replace the IO-470Ms. The change includes a three blade prop. I have been trying to get a straight answer from Hartzell as to whether I can run the extra 30h p through my existing two blade props. Two blades might not be as sexy as three, but the fewer the blades the greater efficiency, all else being eq ual, as a number of early C 310 owners have found, to their great expense. Spend all that money, and the aeroplane goes slower. Likewise, the potential for vibration couples from going to three blade props, again as some C310 owners have found out ---- in this case having to ditch the three blade props. As far as I can see, the IO-550 will drop in, with very minor modifications to the cowl for clearance. Our experience with the 520 is that cooling is no problem, the cowl gills have enough =9Clatitude=9D to acco mmodate the small increase in high power cooling demand. A mate of mine is about to do a turbo-prop conversion to a C340A, which will leave a pair of TSIO-520 look ing for a good home, I will be easily tempted. A ripper conversion is an IO-550 in a C-182, gives a whole meaning to =9Cget up and go=9D, and the conversion was easy. These have all been done to our equivalent of a filed mod., with a DER signoff. I note there is a AC680FPL with STC 400hp Lycomings on eBay right now. Cheers, Bill Hamilton From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B@ aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:46 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: STC for IO-540 conversion Good Morning Chris, You already know I am an unabashed lover of the Continental IO-550-B. I have always thought that the 550 would be a natural to replace the Continentals that were used in a few Commander 500-A's many years ago. How much difference is there between the mounts for Commanders with IO-470-M Continentals and the ones with Lycomings? I am not at all familiar with how the IO-470-M mounts. Is it the same as most 470s? If so, the 550 should be a drop in replacement. Always nice to have an engine with many users that is also in current production. Just musing, but that IS always fun. Now, if we could just get rid of the FAA ---?--- Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 8/19/2009 7:55:56 A.M. Central Daylight Time, cschuerm@cox.net writes: --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris willis robison wrote: > Thanks Chris, > > Well, we may have to consider it if we ever lose the IGO-540s. > Although I wouldnt go into producing the mounts, I would provide the > drawings, gratis for those who also needed a conversion. > A good starting point might be to find a Cherokee-6/300 in a bone yard. You'd at least have the correct engine and a mount that could be modified. There was also a company that had an stc to put TIO-540-J2BD 350hp engines on the flat nacelle Commanders. I assume they built their own mount and it might be closer to what's needed. Anyone know for sure how much the firewall mount points differ between a bathtub and streamline ==================== = ======================= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ======================= - List Contribution Web Site sp; ____________________________________ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List) ======================== ============ ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ======================== ============ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:47 AM PST US From: MASON CHEVAILLIER Subject: Commander-List: jim addington please call mason 817-877-4977 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:38:01 PM PST US From: WINGFLYER1@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: TCFG Fly-In Jim,Sue , Can you give me some info on the Fly=Inn reservations. I just may be able to get their this year. Thanks Gil In a message dated 6/12/2009 11:16:07 A.M. Central America Standard , yourtcfg@aol.com writes: Hi Kids, The registration packets for the Fly-In will be mailed to members this weekend. If you don't receive one and would like one, let us know and we'll be glad to mail it to you. As mentioned previously we will be in Carson City Nevada this year and will combine our Fly-in with the Reno Air Races. Because of this it is important that you book early as rooms and cars will go fast and if you wait until the last minute there may not be anything available. Tentative schedule for the event is as follows: Wednesday Arrival Day and Welcome Dinner Thursday Seminars and Awards Banquet Fri, Sat & Sun Attend Reno Air Races We have booked a box seat on the flght line at the races. Cost will be $325 per person for the entire race event and in addition to the box seat this includes daily parking, daily pit passes and allows us to bring in a couple of coolers each day. The box seat holds up to 15 people so we will need to have you reserve early so if needed we can obtain another box seat. You would also have the option of buying general admission or reserved bleacher seating. Looking forward to seeing you all at this event. Jim & Sue ____________________________________ Make your summer sizzle with _fast and easy recipes_ (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000003) for the grill. 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