---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/16/09: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:14 AM - Contributions Down By 21%... (Matt Dralle) 1. 03:59 AM - Re: Re: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems (wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au) 2. 02:48 PM - [TruthByRushDelivery] Storm Clouds (nico css) 3. 03:13 PM - Unexpected humor (nico css) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:39 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Commander-List: Contributions Down By 21%... Dear Listers, As of today, contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind last year at this time by 21%. I have a fund raiser each year simply to cover my operating costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income to support the Lists and rely solely on the contributions of members to keep the expenses paid. I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet connection is a commercial-grade, T1 connection with public address space. I also maintain a full backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related data so that in the event of a server crash or worse, all of the Lists and the many years of List archive data could be restored onto a new server in a matter of hours. All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of my personal time as well. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these costs and I ask that members that feel they receive a benefit from my investments, make a modest contribution each year to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. If you enjoy the Lists, please make a contribution today. I also offer some incentive gifts for larger contribution levels. At the Contribution Web Wite, you can use a credit card, Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the continuation of these services: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:59:48 AM PST US From: wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au Subject: Re: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems Folks, Just make certain you use the right grade of Al. pipe. If anybody wants to use stainless, the grades are as used in larger aircraft, but I would also suggest that, where possible, you use 1.5 degree taper compression fittings from Stratoflex or Aeroquip, again as per what has been used on 3000 psi systems since the '60's. I can guarantee you will never have a leaking union at 1500psi ever again. The shortcoming of the AN (37.5 degree) or SAE (45 degree as per autos) is that first surfaces to touch are the sealing surfaces, which works OK with soft material (most Al, annealed copper) but not so good steel, stainless or otherwise. Re. corrosion of Al tubes, it is not always from the outside in, in my 500A, I have had two failures (pinholes) in low pressure return lines, at the fluid/air interface where a line is not always either full or empty. I would also suggest that most flexibles be replaced with teflon hose, ALL my fuel lines are stainless/teflon, overkill maybe, but they will never fail in normal service. This does not even require a 337 to do the substitute, they all meet the appropriate Mil. Spec ( or the new standard) for an application where rubber hose is used. In reality, Aero Commanders have had quite a few hydraulic problems over the years, we should be careful of the rose colored glasses, and even more careful with thorough routine inspections. Here's one for thought, how far should you go in dismantling where there is no sign of failure, to inspect under Adel clamps, or fretting under a a union nut. I don't know the answer, I will watch the discussion with much interest. Cheers, Bill Hamilton. > yourtcfg@aol.com wrote: > > Aluminum is just fine as a replacement. After all original lasted 40+ > years!! > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nico css > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sun, Nov 15, 2009 3:07 pm > Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems > > > > Tylor, > Aluminum is 5 times heavier than SS? I guess wall-thickness will have > something to do with it, right? > Nico > > > > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor > Hall > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 9:23 AM > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems > > > > SS 1/4" tubing is 0.08 lbs per foot, and Alum 1/4" tubing is 0.453 lb. > per foot. > 300 feet of tubing exchanged out would be 13.50 lb. added to the empty > weight. > :) > Tylor Hall > > > > On Nov 15, 2009, at 10:12 AM, Donald Falik wrote: > > > > > > Thank goodness it wasn't Skydrol. The failure of the line in the > baggage compartment was difficult to find because it was just a pin hole > at the point that it was chafing against an adjacent line. The second > failure shortly thereafter was out side of the compartment in the wing > root and just dumped the fluid outside along the fuselage. That was the > one due to an improper flare. The mechanic showed it to me. > > > > From: Tom Fisher > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 10:00:17 AM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems > > > In addition to the last failure two years before that the line entering > the baggage compartment from the right wing root ruptured at a chaff > point and pissed Skydrol all over the main wiring bundle which dissolved > all the insulation on most of the wires. I had to replace almost all > the wires in the bundle. Once that was done and paid for I wrapped the > entire bundle in a Skydrol proof sheath so they would be protected from > any other leaks that may occur in the future. > > Tom > Formally C-GISS > 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Donald Falik > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:32 AM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems > > > > I can relate a similar issue with my 500S. I had one line fail due to > chafing in the baggage area. Boy was that a mess when the fluid erupted > in the baggage compartment. Shortly thereafter another line failed just > beyond the repaired one and it was due to an improper flare from a > previous repair. > Don > > > > From: Chris > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 9:15:52 AM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems > > > Ray Mansfield wrote: > > In other words, is this going to be a problem in the next hours of > flight or next years of flight. Does anyone have experience here? > > Ray, > If the line failed right at the flare, it was probably due to improper > fabrication. I've seen many cases where someone has made a line and > didn't know that aircraft aluminum lines use a different flare angle > than copper lines. The tool you'll find at your local hardware store to > flare line ends is for copper only and makes too sharp an angle for > aluminum. This causes cracks to form. > You also mentioned that you've been repairing corrosion in other areas. > The aluminum used for aircraft lines is fairly prone to corrosion. It > also "work hardens" from vibration and becomes more brittle with age. > You may simply be dealing with aging aircraft issues. During my > commander restoration, we ended up having to replace virtually every > hard line in the airplane for these reasons. I'd suggest a very careful > inspection of all your hard lines - especially the ones exposed in the > nacelles. Make sure they are well supported and that the adel clamps > are not loose or missing. If the lines are allowed to vibrate due to > old, worn-out supports, that can lead to rapid fatigue cracking. Clean > the lines carefully with scotch bright and look for corrosion pitting. > Even small pits lead to failure. Look for any areas where the lines are > chaffing (usually due to something coming loose) and address those areas > immediately. It's all just part of being the care-talectric > www.aeroelttp://www.buildersbooks.com/" tHELP www.homebuip; > &n============== > > > > > > > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > ref="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > ref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chre > f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic > s.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://f > orums.matronics.com > > www.aerow.buildersbooks.com/" rel=nofollow > target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.comhttp://www.matronronics.com/Navigator? > Commander-List" rel=nofollow > target=_blank>http://htt======================= > > > > > color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">www.aeroelectric.com > ref="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > ref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/cont > ribution > ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matron > ics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > www.aeroelectric.com > ref="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > ref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/cont > ribution > ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matron > ics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > > > > > > =================================== > - > -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- > -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) > - > -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on > -= the Contribution link below to find out more about > -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided > -= by: > -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com > -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com > -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com > - > -= List Contribution Web Site: > - > -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution > - > -= Thank you for your generous support! > - > -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > - > -=========================================================== > -= - The Commander-List Email Forum - > -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse > -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, > -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, > -= Photoshare, and much much more: > - > -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > - > -=========================================================== > -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! > - > -= --> http://forums.matronics.com > - > -=========================================================== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:48:11 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: Commander-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Storm Clouds I just felt like saying it. TruthByRushDelivery ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:13:06 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: Commander-List: Unexpected humor For those of you who haven't seen this on AvWeb. Apparently the Gators' win was totally unexpected and inflicted quite a bit of damage on the Bulldogs' ego. Hence the response. Nico Short Final On a recent trip in my Cirrus from KSAV to KPDK, I had this exchange with Atlanta Approach. (This was right after the FL-GA football game where the Gators won ... again.) ATL: "N267CP, you are cleared to PDK via the TRBOW8 arrival. Proceed direct from present position to TRBOW." N267CP (me) : "N267CP cleared direct TRBOW for the TRBOW8. Are you sure that shouldn't be renamed TEBOW for the beating that your Bulldogs took?" ATL: "N267CP, one more remark about the beatdown, and I will amend your clearance to IAH, LAX direct PDK!" N267CP "N267CP O.K. TRBOW8 it is!" ATL: "Smart man." 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