Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:50 AM - Re: Trace Engines LP (kitepilot@kitepilot.com)
2. 11:58 AM - Re: Trace Engines LP (Peter Bichier)
3. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: Trace Engines LP (John Vormbaum)
4. 01:03 PM - Re: Re: Trace Engines LP (nico css)
5. 08:38 PM - Re: Re: Trace Engines LP (Tylor Hall)
6. 08:55 PM - Re: Re: Trace Engines LP (nico css)
7. 11:17 PM - Re: Re: Trace Engines LP (Bill Hamilton)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Trace Engines LP |
Hello World...
I am a lurker (and Twin-commander "drooler") in this list, and I've done
some reading. I have never flown on an Aero Commander 5XX (would love to
and would trade it for glider and/or taildragger teaching... ;-), but I
did a lot of "riding" (I wasn't a pilot yet) on a Turbo Commander 690A
(impressive beast).
I owned a Bellanca Super Viking for several years and, although fairly
active in aviation (glider tow, glider teaching, giving the occasional
biannual and renting the occasional multi for currency), I am, at the,
moment "plane-less".
Question is (and please don't shoot the messenger) about the statement:
>> The 685 that has a pair of Orinda engines mounted on it
And the WEB site (one single non-spaces line from "http" to "htm"):
http://www.epi-eng.com/aircraft_engine_conversions/additional_weight_conside
rations.htm
Look for "An Extremely Bad Example."
Can anyone elaborate on this?
Just plain and simple sick curiosity...
Enrique A. Troconis
Tylor Hall writes:
>
> Team,
> I had the honor to meet with David Czarnecki, CEO of Trace Engines at the aviation
super show in Las Vegas the other week.
>
> traceengines.com
>
> They bought the Orenda (Thunder) engine and now have the production certificate.
There have been many changes to the new production engines. The future things
they are working on a confuter controlled ignition and mixture control.
> The 685 that has a pair of Orinda engines mounted on it and has flown has been
recovered from North Dakota and flew to Midland, TX. It is still looking for
an investor to finish the STC with the new Trace engines.
>
> The Trace engine is also working on a higher HP version. The have tested the
engine up to 750+ Hp.
>
> On of the big changes in putting this engine on an airframe is the change from
trying to put every thing in-front of the fire wall to moving the radiator and
cooling into the engine nacelle This reduced the frontal area and made a
sleeker look.
>
> They are in contact with Dick Macoon about further developments.
>
> I wonder if Midland, TX would be a good place for the annual fly-In??
>
> Tylor Hall
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Trace Engines LP |
For those of us who are not so cyber educated, just go to:
http://www.epi-eng.com/
then on the left side you'll find "Aircraft Engine Conversions"
then on #4 you have "Evaluating the Wisdom of an Engine Conversion"
and finally scroll down to the bottom: "An Extremely Bad Example"
... which seem to completely shoot themselves on the foot with all the 685 photos...
although the Orenda exists, so somehow Mr Macoon made it work, just don't
know what was the payload or any of the other specs.
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292558#292558
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Trace Engines LP |
I have also heard from people that flew the Orenda-powered airplane that
there were some profound vibration issues.
/J
On 3/31/2010 11:57 AM, Peter Bichier wrote:
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Peter Bichier"<pbichie@UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
>
> For those of us who are not so cyber educated, just go to:
>
> http://www.epi-eng.com/
>
> then on the left side you'll find "Aircraft Engine Conversions"
>
> then on #4 you have "Evaluating the Wisdom of an Engine Conversion"
>
> and finally scroll down to the bottom: "An Extremely Bad Example"
>
> ... which seem to completely shoot themselves on the foot with all the 685 photos...
although the Orenda exists, so somehow Mr Macoon made it work, just don't
know what was the payload or any of the other specs.
>
> --------
> 560 Dreamer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292558#292558
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Trace Engines LP |
Very insightful article.
It immediately struck me that the moment of the additional weight on the
wing would be a killer, hanging an additional 660# 8 or 10 feet ahead of the
wing root. But the chart shows a comparable load and torsion for a 550 hp V8
even if one adds in a 100# extra for the turbos, no?
Why would that be a bad combination? Is there anything in a study somewhere
about the vibration that folks experienced with the Orenda or other
conversions? Gut-feel tells me that the GM engine would be smoother. I don't
know why. Perhaps higher RPM?
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Bichier
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 11:58 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Trace Engines LP
--> <pbichie@UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
For those of us who are not so cyber educated, just go to:
http://www.epi-eng.com/
then on the left side you'll find "Aircraft Engine Conversions"
then on #4 you have "Evaluating the Wisdom of an Engine Conversion"
and finally scroll down to the bottom: "An Extremely Bad Example"
... which seem to completely shoot themselves on the foot with all the 685
photos... although the Orenda exists, so somehow Mr Macoon made it work,
just don't know what was the payload or any of the other specs.
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292558#292558
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Trace Engines LP |
Weight of the engine total installation has always been a concern.
When talking to David from Trace, he talked about how this new engine is lighter
that the older Orenda.
They have also change from a Hartzel to a lighter weight prop that saves over 40
lb. Moving some items behind the fire wall also saved weight and center of
gravity.
It is all beyond my understanding, but it sounds good.
The Trace engine has all new parts and new suppliers of these parts. To be certified,
every part has to have a traceable supply chain. The Trace is an all
new engine. Or that is what they were saying.
Tylor Hall
It has always been interesting to watch the development process.
On Mar 31, 2010, at 2:03 PM, nico css wrote:
>
> Very insightful article.
>
> It immediately struck me that the moment of the additional weight on the
> wing would be a killer, hanging an additional 660# 8 or 10 feet ahead of the
> wing root. But the chart shows a comparable load and torsion for a 550 hp V8
> even if one adds in a 100# extra for the turbos, no?
>
> Why would that be a bad combination? Is there anything in a study somewhere
> about the vibration that folks experienced with the Orenda or other
> conversions? Gut-feel tells me that the GM engine would be smoother. I don't
> know why. Perhaps higher RPM?
>
> Nico
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
> Bichier
> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 11:58 AM
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Trace Engines LP
>
> --> <pbichie@UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
>
> For those of us who are not so cyber educated, just go to:
>
> http://www.epi-eng.com/
>
> then on the left side you'll find "Aircraft Engine Conversions"
>
> then on #4 you have "Evaluating the Wisdom of an Engine Conversion"
>
> and finally scroll down to the bottom: "An Extremely Bad Example"
>
> ... which seem to completely shoot themselves on the foot with all the 685
> photos... although the Orenda exists, so somehow Mr Macoon made it work,
> just don't know what was the payload or any of the other specs.
>
> --------
> 560 Dreamer
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292558#292558
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Trace Engines LP |
"It has always been interesting to watch the development process."
Fascinating.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Trace Engines LP
Weight of the engine total installation has always been a concern.
When talking to David from Trace, he talked about how this new engine is
lighter that the older Orenda.
They have also change from a Hartzel to a lighter weight prop that saves
over 40 lb. Moving some items behind the fire wall also saved weight and
center of gravity.
It is all beyond my understanding, but it sounds good.
The Trace engine has all new parts and new suppliers of these parts. To be
certified, every part has to have a traceable supply chain. The Trace is an
all new engine. Or that is what they were saying.
Tylor Hall
It has always been interesting to watch the development process.
On Mar 31, 2010, at 2:03 PM, nico css wrote:
> --> <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
>
> Very insightful article.
>
> It immediately struck me that the moment of the additional weight on
> the wing would be a killer, hanging an additional 660# 8 or 10 feet
> ahead of the wing root. But the chart shows a comparable load and
> torsion for a 550 hp V8 even if one adds in a 100# extra for the turbos,
no?
>
> Why would that be a bad combination? Is there anything in a study
> somewhere about the vibration that folks experienced with the Orenda
> or other conversions? Gut-feel tells me that the GM engine would be
> smoother. I don't know why. Perhaps higher RPM?
>
> Nico
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
> Bichier
> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 11:58 AM
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Trace Engines LP
>
> --> <pbichie@UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
>
> For those of us who are not so cyber educated, just go to:
>
> http://www.epi-eng.com/
>
> then on the left side you'll find "Aircraft Engine Conversions"
>
> then on #4 you have "Evaluating the Wisdom of an Engine Conversion"
>
> and finally scroll down to the bottom: "An Extremely Bad Example"
>
> ... which seem to completely shoot themselves on the foot with all the
> 685 photos... although the Orenda exists, so somehow Mr Macoon made it
> work, just don't know what was the payload or any of the other specs.
>
> --------
> 560 Dreamer
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292558#292558
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Trace Engines LP |
Folks,
A colleague of mine got involved in the tail end of the Orenda saga, there
were some fundamental problems, some common to any configuration based on
the 350 Chev. V-8 and firing order. Another was based on the problem of
cylinder liners moving.
Suffice to say, after mucho moolah was expended (invested??) none of the
problems were solved, before the global financial crisis caught up.
I did see a prototype of the "new" engine, that was going to solve all the
Orenda in-service problems, was a really pretty engine, with a really
impressive accessory drive case --- etc., etc, but it was never going to be
cheap, compared to a good old Lycoming or Continental, unless you were
building a replica Spitfire or similar.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
PS: Re. interesting projects, stand by for the publicity release of a
Brittain-Norman Trilander, but with one big turbo-prop, up the fin,
replacing the three original engines.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Trace Engines LP
"It has always been interesting to watch the development process."
Fascinating.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Trace Engines LP
Weight of the engine total installation has always been a concern.
When talking to David from Trace, he talked about how this new engine is
lighter that the older Orenda.
They have also change from a Hartzel to a lighter weight prop that saves
over 40 lb. Moving some items behind the fire wall also saved weight and
center of gravity.
It is all beyond my understanding, but it sounds good.
The Trace engine has all new parts and new suppliers of these parts. To be
certified, every part has to have a traceable supply chain. The Trace is an
all new engine. Or that is what they were saying.
Tylor Hall
It has always been interesting to watch the development process.
On Mar 31, 2010, at 2:03 PM, nico css wrote:
> --> <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
>
> Very insightful article.
>
> It immediately struck me that the moment of the additional weight on
> the wing would be a killer, hanging an additional 660# 8 or 10 feet
> ahead of the wing root. But the chart shows a comparable load and
> torsion for a 550 hp V8 even if one adds in a 100# extra for the turbos,
no?
>
> Why would that be a bad combination? Is there anything in a study
> somewhere about the vibration that folks experienced with the Orenda
> or other conversions? Gut-feel tells me that the GM engine would be
> smoother. I don't know why. Perhaps higher RPM?
>
> Nico
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
> Bichier
> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 11:58 AM
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Trace Engines LP
>
> --> <pbichie@UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
>
> For those of us who are not so cyber educated, just go to:
>
> http://www.epi-eng.com/
>
> then on the left side you'll find "Aircraft Engine Conversions"
>
> then on #4 you have "Evaluating the Wisdom of an Engine Conversion"
>
> and finally scroll down to the bottom: "An Extremely Bad Example"
>
> ... which seem to completely shoot themselves on the foot with all the
> 685 photos... although the Orenda exists, so somehow Mr Macoon made it
> work, just don't know what was the payload or any of the other specs.
>
> --------
> 560 Dreamer
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292558#292558
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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